CFB Rankings Week #4

There is just a much lesser complaint though. In any system with conference champions that we could have, if you go undefeated you would make the playoffs. In other words, you would control your own destiny. The real reason this will be fought against is because the haves do not want to compete for recruits with the have nots. Because once you get equality of opportunity, the "smaller" schools will have more ammo to recruit with ... locals are more likely to stay close to home, conference realignment won't always be the successful program leaving the smaller conference for the power 5 conference, etc etc etc ...... power 5 wants the centralized power that brings oppression with it.
 
There is just a much lesser complaint though. In any system with conference champions that we could have, if you go undefeated you would make the playoffs. In other words, you would control your own destiny. The real reason this will be fought against is because the haves do not want to compete for recruits with the have nots. Because once you get equality of opportunity, the "smaller" schools will have more ammo to recruit with ... locals are more likely to stay close to home, conference realignment won't always be the successful program leaving the smaller conference for the power 5 conference, etc etc etc ...... power 5 wants the centralized power that brings oppression with it.

In theory, go undefeated and you get a national title shot, you control your own destiny. Sure. But in reality it often doesn't work that way, especially if we are expanding the pool of teams to 8, we aren't going to have 8 undefeated conference champions, so then in the division winner / title game system we get flawed matchups and potentially flawed results.

Here is one for you. MAC Title game. Say we have a system that allows the MAC Champion into a 8 team playoff. Western Michigan is 12-0, 8-0 league vs Ohio 8-4, 6-2. If Ohio were to win that game, they are now awarded a national title shot? No way. The results of their September-November games over the course of the season has not justified it. They do not deserve it.

That is why if we say winning a conference is the magic ticket then how conferences are won needs changed

And again, we are talking here for reasons dealing with competitiveness, fairness...none of which actually goes into the decisions that make the systems we have. But anyway, what else are we to do...

Another question for you; is Jacksonville St oppressed because they are IAA / FCS? And if Troy for instance were shuffled down to IAA / FCS, would they be subject of oppression?

I'm more for just letting the Power 5 have their own playoff than I am including every single conference champion making up the current 128 teams. I know your underdog example and you talked about how the little guy can beat goliath with hard work and such, but we have david vs goliath within the P5 conferences already.

I mean this isn't a civil rights issue is it? MAC schools are more comparable in terms of budgets, attendance, facilities, recruiting capabilities with other FCS schools than they are Big Ten schools. There are boundries in sports for reasons. If not why not just let Mount Union compete with Ohio State for a national football title?
 
Mount union is competing for a title in the system they are in. Were they in fbs then i would expect them to have the opportunity.

We are making this more complicated than we need to. It is simple and the best part is that the simple way is fair.

As to the Ohio example, of course Ohio would deserve the playoff spot. We see this all the time in college baskets.
 
And i have to laugh at the Ohio example. Western Michigan goes from having 0 chance to a chance to win their conference and go to the playoffs and you are concerned that wmich losing the title game and not going is unfair? Sorry. You know your footy better than me by a long ways right now, but that doesn't pass the laugh test.
 
Mount union is competing for a title in the system they are in. Were they in fbs then i would expect them to have the opportunity.

We are making this more complicated than we need to. It is simple and the best part is that the simple way is fair.

As to the Ohio example, of course Ohio would deserve the playoff spot. We see this all the time in college baskets.

And i have to laugh at the Ohio example. Western Michigan goes from having 0 chance to a chance to win their conference and go to the playoffs and you are concerned that wmich losing the title game and not going is unfair? Sorry. You know your footy better than me by a long ways right now, but that doesn't pass the laugh test.

I've been saying that some of the 128 teams shouldn't be competing in the system they currently are. Reduce the number of teams at IA / FBS. So then if Western Michigan were reclassified as FCS / IAA then it is a non-issue because they'd be in a different system, which I think is where they belong.

It is easy for these kinds of things to get lost or confused because so many different things are being discussed at the same time, if this, or if that...but if we were talking about a playoff model using conference champions within the current 128 group of teams then Western Michigan would have 100% chance and go to the playoff - not 0%.

The issue that alot of people are going to have is if 8-4, would-be then 9-4 Ohio were to win that game, they would also have 100% chance at the playoff. Just like people here have expressed frustration/anger/disappointment that Wisconsin could earn that same right. Or Virginia Tech for that matter should they beat Clemson. Trust me, more people would be laughing at Ohio in an 8 team playoff.

When we say "let's only take the conference champions and play them off for a national title", in the current system in how we crown conference champions it could lead to lots of undeserving teams. What is undeserving? Undeserving is a team that has not looked the part of a national champion type team weeks 1-13. I may still be a bit too old school, but it wasn't that long ago that we just awarded the championship to a team that looked the best and in fact decades upon decades we did it that way. So, I still look at teams in that way...as in, had this team looked the part, have they done enough, is their resume what you would want in a national title caliber team. Have they beat quality teams, are their losses to quality teams? Have they dominated? The University of Ohio does not fit that part, not only that they have not looked the part of an elite MAC team ever this season either. Western Michigan has. If we could strip down the conferences and abandon conference title games then I think many people would be ok with an undefeated WMich team getting a playoff ticket in this 8 team playoff of league champs only, because weeks 1-13 they earned it, they did what it took to get there and a seat at the table would be reserved for them. What I do not think is right and I think more people would object to is that if Ohio didn't play like the best MAC team weeks 1-13, but if on week 14...essentially in a one game season, they somehow upset the team that did look that part all season...that is a fluke. Perhaps it is luck, good for them, bad for WM. Very similar to how Buffalo beat 12-0 Ball St perhaps several years back. That is where we are going to run into problems with this conference champion only playoff model, if we get teams like Ohio....or Florida beats Alabama and Bama stays home and Florida goes...VT over Clemson, etc. If we have potential for these type of things it is going to kill the idea before it gets off the ground.

Now you bring up college basketball, I don't think we need to use other sports to justify how we think things should be done in this sport. Why can't we just look at the landscape of major college football for what it is independent of basketball or baseball or whatever, have the teams decide what happens on the field over the course of the regular season, stop boiling conference championships down to a single winner-take-all game and then go from there with a new post season model.

We differ on some things. I strongly object to how we are deciding conference champions and what teams should be considered national title worthy. You object in restricting access to teams that otherwise have done all they can to compete for the highest prize yet are denied access. At any rate, we have one thing in common, neither of us will get what we want.
 
A lot in that post so i do not mean to be flippant when i say that a team cannot be an undeserving champion based on objective criteria. There are many examples of undeserving champions by subjective criteria, or is there? ....because we can argue it. My whole point, in a nutshell rears its ugly head again.
 
Ya i am convinced it will never happen. Between the lsu v bama year, the tosu title year when tcu and baylor were both more deserving and both would have been favored, and the years they matched boise vs tcu cause they knew they would rape most bcs power schools , it has been clear for awhile it is a Castro Cuba structure not a Abe Lincoln America structure.
 
Right, there would be so many things to go over in the who is deserving and who is not deserving. And I think this original discussion dates back this week or some other week when were trying to take the opinion out of it all together.

I think it has to start with who should be able to compete for the FCS / IA title and who should not. That is going to be opinion.

But from that point forward I think we can leave opinion out of it if we just let regular season games decide the 8 playoff teams in appropriately sized conferences.

Not to confuse things, I haven't ever figured out if this is a strength or weakness of mine, but I can take promote or defend positions on just about any topic allowing myself to see both sides of an argument to an extent.

What I really believe is in keeping it 4 teams where some ranking system picks the 4 teams among highest ranked conference champions only. So really, they way they do things now isn't too far off of what I think I would want. I just DO NOT want two teams from the same league to get in and I have major issues with using conference title games, which I'm sure is abundantly clear by now.

We're not going to get opinion out of the sport, no matter how much we want to or not. So then I think my opinion should matter most. ;)
 
Your opinion should likely matter more than those of the people currently deciding. On that we can agree.

Rotating eligible conferences is better than picking what 4 conferences are most deserving. Same problem.
 
Ya i am convinced it will never happen. Between the lsu v bama year, the tosu title year when tcu and baylor were both more deserving and both would have been favored, and the years they matched boise vs tcu cause they knew they would rape most bcs power schools , it has been clear for awhile it is a Castro Cuba structure not a Abe Lincoln America structure.

Hi clown, spot on here.
i am coming back to post. This CFB shit is so annoying and I have to get back on here to discuss.

1. Keep Kirk herbstreit off the TV if he can not have an unbiased opinion. You went to Ohio St I get it but grow the fuck up.
 
Haha guys good one..
no jail, some other stuff, nothing negative kids
 
Nice to know Twinkie likes cock.
pic of players in underwear? Ok....
 
Mount union is competing for a title in the system they are in. Were they in fbs then i would expect them to have the opportunity.

We are making this more complicated than we need to. It is simple and the best part is that the simple way is fair.

As to the Ohio example, of course Ohio would deserve the playoff spot. We see this all the time in college baskets.

Only way is to drop conferences....how else can you justify WMU playing for it all.

I go back to it.....finish strong this year WMU....get some love.....and then be Houston and....
Oh wait, lose to Navy, SMU and you get the picture
 
Let the oddsmakers decide.
If team A is going to be a 27 pt favorite to team B, then team B shouldn't be there.
 
Let the oddsmakers decide.
If team A is going to be a 27 pt favorite to team B, then team B shouldn't be there.
Go to the ML dogs thread every week and you will recant this statement. Lines are not always indicative of best team.
 
I've brought this up a few times but nobody has answered...

If all we care about is making it through the season undefeated then why would anyone schedule a legit OOC game? Bama/SC, Wisky/LSU, OSU/OU would cease to exist.

And what do you all feel about rematches in the conference championship game. I think we can all agree that OSU and mich were the best 2 teams in the big 10 this year. Should either of them had to go and play Wisky again in the big 10 champ game after having already beaten them? Especially OSU who beat Wisky at camp randall at night? These conference championship games wind up being pretty goofy half the time.
 
That is the broader discussion that people have brought up about how the conferences and conference champs are currently determined. As for the matter of why would you schedule strong OOC games we have seen teams that needed the SOS from strong OOC games (wins) to be even considered in the conversation.
 
Not under the western michigan pipe dream scenario.
Even as a WMU sympathizer and am on the clowncar side of the WMu argument I also agree that the OOC they scheduled are not really "strong" OOC games. Your initial question was referencing Bama/SC, Wisky/LSU, OSU/OU. WMU playing NW and Illi are hardly like comparisons to Bama playing USC.
 
Even as a WMU sympathizer and am on the clowncar side of the WMu argument I also agree that the OOC they scheduled are not really "strong" OOC games. Your initial question was referencing Bama/SC, Wisky/LSU, OSU/OU. WMU playing NW and Illi are hardly like comparisons to Bama playing USC.

Right, my point is...

If we are going to indiscriminately reward undefeated teams with a free ticket to the playoffs (such as WMU) then why would anyone go out of their way to schedule difficult OOC matchups?
 
Only way is to drop conferences....how else can you justify WMU playing for it all.

I go back to it.....finish strong this year WMU....get some love.....and then be Houston and....
Oh wait, lose to Navy, SMU and you get the picture

But again, WMU scheduled AND beat 2 B1G schools this season. What more can they do, since we always hear they need to play some Power 5 teams to have a "legitimate" shot?
 
Right, my point is...

If we are going to indiscriminately reward undefeated teams with a free ticket to the playoffs (such as WMU) then why would anyone go out of their way to schedule difficult OOC matchups?

Anyone being who though, the Power 5 or the non-Power 5? The Power 5 guys already don't schedule "tougher" OOC games more often than not. And WMU did schedule 3 B1G schools this season and won both of them.
 
If you go undefeated in and out of conference and thoroughly bash most of those teams skulls in and still get scoffed at when mentioned at even a playoff birth then that team needs to just have a separate playoff.
 
You guys with the "schedule tougher out of conference games" point. Schedules are not made a month before the season, some are scheduled years in advance. WMU can't do anything about the fact that Illinois is in the toilet or UW can't help that's rutgers is trash. At a point not very long ago Rutgers was a top 20 program....
 
Sorry didn't realize, I have actually seen a few different people say this seriously, I thought.

I need a sarcasm font.
I popped off in the thread saying LSU or no one, knowing I'd get Twink spun up.

Seriously, no one will be happy. THread could be it's own politics thread.
 
I've brought this up a few times but nobody has answered...

If all we care about is making it through the season undefeated then why would anyone schedule a legit OOC game? Bama/SC, Wisky/LSU, OSU/OU would cease to exist.

I'm pretty sure we would still get plenty of these, mostly because of the money they generate. Not sure about home-and-homes, but when teams play at a neutral site in a one-off game they make more money than they do in a home game. According to Business of College Sports, Michigan and Florida are set to receive $6 million each (gross, before travel expenses, etc) for playing in Dallas next year. I found a 2014 article that said Florida only made $2.5 million net per home game.

Another reason it would likely continue if all that really mattered were winning one's conference, is that it wouldn't hurt them if they lost and would still yield potential recruiting rewards by playing in a certain region or vs a certain team plus the national exposure a program can get out of it. Saban called the USC game a "business decision" and acknowledged the exposure it will bring them.
 
Right, my point is...

If we are going to indiscriminately reward undefeated teams with a free ticket to the playoffs (such as WMU) then why would anyone go out of their way to schedule difficult OOC matchups?

Money, see above.
 
Two factor metric......"strength of team" and "strength of season"

everybody gets to argue about the relative weight of each

as a 6 y.o., I was a fukkin angel the whole goddamn year and still didn't get the bike for x-mas......shit doesn't always have to be 100% fair
 
Western Michigan got paid a combined $1.6 million to play at NW and at ILL. I don't know what they make per home game, but generally the mid major teams need these out of conference pay games just as much as the power 5 team needs the home game.

Whether WM scheduled difficult enough, I think for who they are, mid-major program it is plenty good. Troy played Clemson. Georgia Southern played Ole Miss. App St had the contracted series with Miami, Fl. Toledo has played decent OOC games (at BYU this year, at Arkansas last year). Ohio played at Tennessee.

I mean that is as good as it is going to get and it is fine. Mid majors really don't need to load their OOC schedule up with all power 5 teams and power 5 teams don't need to load their OOC up with all power 5 teams. You get 1 or 2 tough OOC games with most teams and that is good enough. Other teams (Baylor) have a different model, but that doesn't necessarily bother me either. I think more often than not power 5 teams will schedule according to their fiscal and budget requirements more than they will schedule easy (and leave money on the table) just in the hope to go undefeated.

The nonpower 5 programs can't abandon these type games and just schedule all creampuffs OOC because they need the money.
 
I don't get this Ohio state is so far ahead of teams.. they haven't looked impressive very oftern
why have they separated themselves?
 
Ain't no doubt Barry Alvarez running this show.......Clemson and UW get upset, I'll be goddamned if there won't be three b10 teams in the playoff.....
 
Beat SMU and the Navy teams....

Yeah, unbeaten Houston would definitely be a top 4 team right now on the eve of a AAC Title game vs Temple had they beaten those two. A win vs Temple...AAC Championship, 13-0 record, Houston would be in. Probably be behind Bama and Ohio St, still...Houston would be 3 or 4 I would guess.
 
I asked what WMU was supposed to do this year outside of beat 2 B1G teams...on the road, of course.

Schedule teams that actually compete at the top of their conference. Illinois is a perennial cellar dweller who has routinely lost to power 5 schools and NW doesn't accomplish much on a yearly basis either.
 
Schedule teams that actually compete at the top of their conference. Illinois is a perennial cellar dweller who has routinely lost to power 5 schools and NW doesn't accomplish much on a yearly basis either.

are u serious?
 
I guess wmu should have picked up Ohio st and Michigan.. oh wait, most likely those schools wouldn't want to pick up wmu.... that's the problem.
 
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