Tom Brady---Forever a Fraud?

Elbutre88 said:
look, i think the nfl is way outta control with this kind of punishment, but do y'all really believe that brady had absolutely nothing to do with this? and that spygate wasn't an actual thing?

serious question.
Click to expand...

Elbutre - you have been one of the few that have been level headed in this thread..... This is a serious question. (Without googling anything....).. What exactly do YOU think spygate is/was... Not looking for a fight - very curious of your response....
 
On paper this seems like it could be very entertaining radio tomorrow morning.

Weei is having Bob Kravitz (Indy reporter who broke the actual story and also had to apologize for tweeting wrong info) will be on at 9:05a.m. est... I m sure it will be on the website shortly after for all to listen to if you dont want to hear it live...
 
CASH said:
Elbutre - you have been one of the few that have been level headed in this thread..... This is a serious question. (Without googling anything....).. What exactly do YOU think spygate is/was... Not looking for a fight - very curious of your response....
Click to expand...

that equipment dude showed the tapes to the commish after fat mangini tried dry snitchin on his former employer. they were recording defensive signals ans what not.
 
and just because i think that brady had something to do with deflating footballs doesn't mean that i think he should admit it in this sham of an investigation, done by an "independent inquiry" bullshit.

the ginger hammer went above and beyond what the CBA calls for. this is an alarming miscarriage of justice, and the patriots have already paid a fine and given up draft picks that never shoulda happened.

i can think this or that, but it sure as shit doesn't mean that brady should be punished for something that 1) nobody gave a fuck about before the colts game, and 2) doesn't have any real, actual proof that he did shit.
 
Elbutre88 said:
that equipment dude showed the tapes to the commish after fat mangini tried dry snitchin on his former employer. they were recording defensive signals ans what not.
Click to expand...

Is this what you think they got punished for? (again , no googling)
 
yeah, that's what i just said. i ain't googling. they were recording defensive hand signals from the coaches of their opponents.

i know they didn't record the rams walk through, or at least the equipment guy said he never recorded that shit.

and i remember arlen specter getting all up in arms about it. i also remember jimmy johnson and some other coaches saying folks did it all the time back in the day, but that the NFL sent out some kind of directive that told people to quit doing it.

but i coulda sworn to god that the patriots admitted doing it, and took their lumps before saying they never taped walk throughs.
 
maybe not "admitted, admitted", but there was no fighting it because of the tapes the video dude showed the ginger hammer.


when's the part where you agree or disagree with me. without googling, of course.
 
Elbutre88 said:
and just because i think that brady had something to do with deflating footballs doesn't mean that i think he should admit it in this sham of an investigation, done by an "independent inquiry" bullshit.

the ginger hammer went above and beyond what the CBA calls for. this is an alarming miscarriage of justice, and the patriots have already paid a fine and given up draft picks that never shoulda happened.

i can think this or that, but it sure as shit doesn't mean that brady should be punished for something that 1) nobody gave a fuck about before the colts game, and 2) doesn't have any real, actual proof that he did shit.
Click to expand...

I agree with this... :shake:
 
wikipedia is incorrect - this site is accurate on what "spygate" is...

http://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate

What is Spygate? A Definitive Guide.


Do you think WrongLocationgate (aka Spygate) was about the Patriots secretly recording another team's practice? Perhaps you think that recording your opponent's defensive signals is illegal and an unprecedented display of organizational cheating? Either way, you're wrong, and this page is for you.


WHO: The New England Patriots (The Perps) and the New York Jets (The PerenniallyHapless Victims, and I really mean perennially)
WHAT: The announced reason that the Patriots were punished was for filming their 2007 regular season game against the Jets from a sideline location instead of from an approved filming location (e.g. a press or media box). The actual reason was because they were told to do something by Goodell and didn't do it (more below).
The Patriots were not punished for filming the Jets defensive signals, as that has never been forbidden by the NFL. As of 2006, however, where you film the game and signals is limited to approved locations. Coincidentally, the Jets had done nearly the exact same thing a year earlier but were not punished, even a little bit, by NFL commissioner and former Jets public relations intern Roger Goodell.
WHEN: During the September 9, 2007 regular-season game against the Jets.


[h=2]THE AFTERMATH: SPYGATE PENALTIES[/h]As punishment for filming the game from the wrong location, and for not following the new commissioner's guidelines on such, the NFL fined Patriots head coach Bill Belichick $500,000, fined the Patriots $250,000, and docked the team their original first-round selection in the 2008 NFL Draft.
[h=2]COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT SPYGATE[/h]YOU'RE WRONG IF YOU THINK: Filming you opponents' signals is prohibited by the league and is therefore a serious cheating infraction.
REALITY: Filming your opponents' signals is -- and always has been -- completely legal, even today. After a league memo to all clubs in 2006, however, you can't do it from a location where the team could potentially use it during the same game.
As Coach Bill Belichick noted in 2015, 80,000 people can see his team's defensive signals: millions more if a TV camera pans by them. The signals are not meant to be hidden, just as in baseball a third-base coach's signals are not meant to be hidden. They should, however, be properly encrypted, but that is the signaling team's responsibility.
Every single NFL team films every single game they play from multiple angles. As they do this, are they supposed to locate and black out the one part of the stadium where the defensive coach is? Should it be a roaming dot if he moves? Obviously not, because the sidelines are just another part of the larger football field and game.
Spygate was:

  • 10% about where they were filming from
  • 90% about Belichick stupidly thumbing his nose at Goodell's new rule, and
  • 0% about what was being filmed
It should have been called WrongLocationgate or F*ckYouRogergate, because there was absolutely no element of spying involved.
Don't go on if you don't get this. Knowing that it is completely legal to film defensive signals is fundamental to your understanding of all Spygate scandals and why they are punished as a relatively minor offense on this site.




 
Elbutre88 said:
maybe not "admitted, admitted", but there was no fighting it because of the tapes the video dude showed the ginger hammer.


when's the part where you agree or disagree with me. without googling, of course.
Click to expand...


its not an attack on you specifically (spygate )..... a lot of people "think" spygate is about the taping.. its not -- its all about the location,, and I believe a memo had come out a few weeks earlier...
 
Tipp,

there are some great pics out on the web.. the artist is getting hammered for it as well....
 
I know, they're pretty hilarious. That's just a couple of them, there are like 50 if you google images for Brady courtroom sketch.
 
Reminds me of that scene in the Sopranos when Uncle Junior was staring down the sketch artist in the courtroom because of an unflattering drawing.
 
CASH said:
wikipedia is incorrect - this site is accurate on what "spygate" is...

http://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate

What is Spygate? A Definitive Guide.


Do you think WrongLocationgate (aka Spygate) was about the Patriots secretly recording another team's practice? Perhaps you think that recording your opponent's defensive signals is illegal and an unprecedented display of organizational cheating? Either way, you're wrong, and this page is for you.


WHO: The New England Patriots (The Perps) and the New York Jets (The PerenniallyHapless Victims, and I really mean perennially)
WHAT: The announced reason that the Patriots were punished was for filming their 2007 regular season game against the Jets from a sideline location instead of from an approved filming location (e.g. a press or media box). The actual reason was because they were told to do something by Goodell and didn't do it (more below).
The Patriots were not punished for filming the Jets defensive signals, as that has never been forbidden by the NFL. As of 2006, however, where you film the game and signals is limited to approved locations. Coincidentally, the Jets had done nearly the exact same thing a year earlier but were not punished, even a little bit, by NFL commissioner and former Jets public relations intern Roger Goodell.
WHEN: During the September 9, 2007 regular-season game against the Jets.


THE AFTERMATH: SPYGATE PENALTIES

As punishment for filming the game from the wrong location, and for not following the new commissioner's guidelines on such, the NFL fined Patriots head coach Bill Belichick $500,000, fined the Patriots $250,000, and docked the team their original first-round selection in the 2008 NFL Draft.
COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT SPYGATE

YOU'RE WRONG IF YOU THINK: Filming you opponents' signals is prohibited by the league and is therefore a serious cheating infraction.
REALITY: Filming your opponents' signals is -- and always has been -- completely legal, even today. After a league memo to all clubs in 2006, however, you can't do it from a location where the team could potentially use it during the same game.
As Coach Bill Belichick noted in 2015, 80,000 people can see his team's defensive signals: millions more if a TV camera pans by them. The signals are not meant to be hidden, just as in baseball a third-base coach's signals are not meant to be hidden. They should, however, be properly encrypted, but that is the signaling team's responsibility.
Every single NFL team films every single game they play from multiple angles. As they do this, are they supposed to locate and black out the one part of the stadium where the defensive coach is? Should it be a roaming dot if he moves? Obviously not, because the sidelines are just another part of the larger football field and game.
Spygate was:

  • 10% about where they were filming from
  • 90% about Belichick stupidly thumbing his nose at Goodell's new rule, and
  • 0% about what was being filmed
It should have been called WrongLocationgate or F*ckYouRogergate, because there was absolutely no element of spying involved.
Don't go on if you don't get this. Knowing that it is completely legal to film defensive signals is fundamental to your understanding of all Spygate scandals and why they are punished as a relatively minor offense on this site.
Click to expand...

but this part just ain't true. there were several tapes of several games that resulted in this punishment. it wasn't just one game. and then the equipment guy showed up and met with specter and gooddell, and he had even more tapes.
 
i started googlin:

[h=4]NFL's no-video rule[/h]The "Game Operations Manual" states that "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." The manual states that "all video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead." NFL security officials confiscated a camera and videotape from a New England video assistant on the Patriots' sideline when it was suspected he was recording the Jets' defensive signals. Taping any signals is prohibited.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=sando_mike&id=3017542
 
N.F.L. policy prohibits videotaping opposing coaches giving signals. Last year, the N.F.L.’s executive vice president of football operations, Ray Anderson, sent a memo to teams reminding them of the rule. The memo is believed to have been generated in part by suspicions that the Patriots had videotaped coaches at several games last season.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/14/sports/football/14patriots.html

again.
 
look, i don't really give two shits about spygate, but it was definitely a "thing", and that website you posted seems to flat out contradict what the nyt, and espn said about it, which seems a little suspect.

it seems like the blinders go up from pats fans when folks call out the organization for doing shady shit.

yeah, the hoodie skirts the rule book, that's who he is--whatever. he got punished for spygate and it is what it is. the ginger hammer destroying the tapes didn't help that narrative at all, and when this psi thing came out it was pretty easy to connect spygate to it.
 
Elbutre88 said:
look, i don't really give two shits about spygate, but it was definitely a "thing", and that website you posted seems to flat out contradict what the nyt, and espn said about it, which seems a little suspect.

it seems like the blinders go up from pats fans when folks call out the organization for doing shady shit.

yeah, the hoodie skirts the rule book, that's who he is--whatever. he got punished for spygate and it is what it is. the ginger hammer destroying the tapes didn't help that narrative at all, and when this psi thing came out it was pretty easy to connect spygate to it.
Click to expand...

John Tomase was the local reporter who broke the spygate story in the Boston herald ,,, not only did he write a retraction so did the newspaper ...
no blinders here, they got punished for their actions...
The folks with the binders are the haters,,, read what wrote, you and 99% of the haters already had their mind made up with the media's spygate name... Same thing with mortenson and his incorrect tweet about 11 of 12 footballs...which was incorrect, he finally removed the tweet. Bob kravitz had to as well and he apologized. But the media and the haters want the clicks and views so they sensational a story...


note: Tomase broke the incorrect taping of Rams walk through ...mangina.. Told NFL security about the taping...
 
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He's one of those columnists that have bopped around. I didn't know he was still alive until he started going after the Patriots. He's a hack.
 
tipyerbartender said:
I put him on level with the insufferable Bill Livingston.
Click to expand...

Their is another reporter in that area that despises everything patriots..forget his name

found him.....


Gregg Doyel, a columnist at the Indianapolis Star, published a columnsaying that if found guilty, the Patriots ought to be taken out of the Super Bowl. “Here’s how it works,” Doyel told me. “If you write something and it’s compelling enough, it leaves a mark. Boston went nuts over what I wrote. You know why? Because I left a mark. I’ll take that.”
He continued, “It also left a mark with some media people. Please don’t paint this with a broad brush, but there are a handful of people in that market that are embarrassing. That handful came after me.” Even Kravitz began tweeting that Belichick should be fired, and a few times he neglected to include the “if guilty” part. He later apologized.
 
Last edited:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/s...n-lynch-seattle-seahawks-conspiracy-theories/
CASH said:
John Tomase was the local reporter who broke the spygate story in the Boston herald ,,, not only did he write a retraction so did the newspaper ...
no blinders here, they got punished for their actions...
The folks with the binders are the haters,,, read what wrote, you and 99% of the haters already had their mind made up with the media's spygate name... Same thing with mortenson and his incorrect tweet about 11 of 12 footballs...which was incorrect, he finally removed the tweet. Bob kravitz had to as well and he apologized. But the media and the haters want the clicks and views so they sensational a story...


note: Tomase broke the incorrect taping of Rams walk through ...mangina.. Told NFL security about the taping...
Click to expand...


Good article on the media on sensationalizing


http://grantland.com/the-triangle/s...n-lynch-seattle-seahawks-conspiracy-theories/
 
Uh-oh

Deflategate could be the least of Tom Brady's troubles.
The Super Bowl champ has been dragged into Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner's divorce drama after Affleck and Garner's ex nanny Christine Ouzounian posted a photo of herself wearing his four Super Bowl rings. But that's not all.
WATCH: Tom Brady Courtroom Sketch Artist Apologizes for Hilariously Unflattering Drawing
"A report has surfaced, alleging that [Brady] and Gisele could be headed towards a divorce," Wonderwall.com's Jessica Wedemeyer told ET. "We're hearing that they're bickering non-stop lately. And really the drama kind of reached a head at Tom's birthday dinner. Allegedly, Gisele stormed out she was so angry."
 
braves said:
Uh-oh

Deflategate could be the least of Tom Brady's troubles.
The Super Bowl champ has been dragged into Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner's divorce drama after Affleck and Garner's ex nanny Christine Ouzounian posted a photo of herself wearing his four Super Bowl rings. But that's not all.
WATCH: Tom Brady Courtroom Sketch Artist Apologizes for Hilariously Unflattering Drawing
"A report has surfaced, alleging that [Brady] and Gisele could be headed towards a divorce," Wonderwall.com's Jessica Wedemeyer told ET. "We're hearing that they're bickering non-stop lately. And really the drama kind of reached a head at Tom's birthday dinner. Allegedly, Gisele stormed out she was so angry."
Click to expand...

braves said:
Sounds like Giselle is jumping ship ,since Tom is no longer America"s perfect professional athlete.
Click to expand...

braves said:
Sounds like patriot fans want to rationalize the cheating by calling everyone else haters
Click to expand...

Great job trolling.....
 
CASH said:
John Tomase was the local reporter who broke the spygate story in the Boston herald ,,, not only did he write a retraction so did the newspaper ...
no blinders here, they got punished for their actions...
The folks with the binders are the haters,,, read what wrote, you and 99% of the haters already had their mind made up with the media's spygate name... Same thing with mortenson and his incorrect tweet about 11 of 12 footballs...which was incorrect, he finally removed the tweet. Bob kravitz had to as well and he apologized. But the media and the haters want the clicks and views so they sensational a story...


note: Tomase broke the incorrect taping of Rams walk through ...mangina.. Told NFL security about the taping...
Click to expand...


ummm, the boston herald only apologized about the accusation of taping the rams walk through before the super bowl, which they said was wrong, and i never mentioned. they didn't apologize for anything else.

calling me a hater is an incredible leap. i'm just reading articles and what not. and im gonna go ahead an pat myself on the back for being correct about spygate without even googling. they taped defensive signals, it was against the rules, period end of story. this whole other thing that you're bringing up ain't got a thing to do with it. that website looks like a couple of pats fans put it up and it's 100% wrong, at least according to the nyt and espn. lo siento.
 
CASH said:
Their is another reporter in that area that despises everything patriots..forget his name

found him.....


Gregg Doyel, a columnist at the Indianapolis Star, published a columnsaying that if found guilty, the Patriots ought to be taken out of the Super Bowl. “Here’s how it works,” Doyel told me. “If you write something and it’s compelling enough, it leaves a mark. Boston went nuts over what I wrote. You know why? Because I left a mark. I’ll take that.”
He continued, “It also left a mark with some media people. Please don’t paint this with a broad brush, but there are a handful of people in that market that are embarrassing. That handful came after me.” Even Kravitz began tweeting that Belichick should be fired, and a few times he neglected to include the “if guilty” part. He later apologized.
Click to expand...


him and kravitz are total d-bags. agreed.
 
Elbutre88 said:
ummm, the boston herald only apologized about the accusation of taping the rams walk through before the super bowl, which they said was wrong, and i never mentioned. they didn't apologize for anything else.

calling me a hater is an incredible leap. i'm just reading articles and what not. and im gonna go ahead an pat myself on the back for being correct about spygate without even googling.they taped defensive signals, it was against the rules, period end of story. this whole other thing that you're bringing up ain't got a thing to do with it. that website looks like a couple of pats fans put it up and it's 100% wrong, at least according to the nyt and espn. lo siento.
Click to expand...

i apologize as it was not directed towards you. it was a general statement ...

If you are trusting espn and the nytimes for facts because neither of them sensationalize a story to sell anything......

Regarding the website link.... never looked to see who created... it was about the illustration, pointed out exactly where they were taping from.
I am not condoning what they did, I have said many times if they were caught then they should be punished, in which they were... ( i also think it was harsh do to the fact that the memo had just gone out and it looks like Bill just completely ignored it)

They were Not punished for taping the signals, which is what the media has sensationalized as "spygate", they were penalized for the Location of where they were doing the filming from and shortly after this memo went out to the teams...

And, a memo from Ray Anderson, NFL head of football operations, to head coaches and GMs on Sept. 6, 2006 said: 'Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.'

Here are the rest of the rules about taping....


According to the NFL rules, teams are allowed to tape 'coaching video' from an upper level location or from the end zones with no restrictions so long as both teams have access to the location. Such taping does not require league permission. No one seems to know exactly what 'coaching video' is, that there is any review or monitoring of what gets taped, and the NFL doesn't make it's official rule book public.

But this rule seems to be a direct contradiction of the following 'rules':

Page 105 of the Game Operations manual says: 'No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game.' It later says: 'All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.'

And, a memo from Ray Anderson, NFL head of football operations, to head coaches and GMs on Sept. 6, 2006 said: 'Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.'

The first rule states that video taping is allowed from an upper level location to make 'coaching video', but the other 2 say that video taping is not allowed in 'areas accessible to staff members.'



Yes I am a patriots fan, am I defending them yes, but more against the media and the potshots that they take and the "fake" sources (intentional leaks) however I am just going by the rules....
 
braves said:
so if we don't buy into the patriot fan puff pieces posted in here, we are haters. Makes sense
Click to expand...

not at all, no rationalizing at all...

what Fan puff pieces? I think I have been sharing info, trying to explain them (probably not well enough for some of you critics) What exactly have you shared to make for a good discussion?? Always open for a good discussion but you have not provided anything? Have you? only when it is a chance to dig at the Pats, coach organization, which is fine, Hate all you want, provide something to the discussion with some backup...

I posted the grantland article for how the media sensationalized stories and you write this :
Sounds like patriot fans want to rationalize the cheating by calling everyone else haters

I said nothing about hating,,,media runs with a story true or false.. like Kravitz and Mortenson..... one had to apologize the other finally did it in a round about way...
 
regardless of the rules, they have ruined the spirit of the game

they want to win, but not on the field and not using their minds, there has always been a cloud around them about their use of outside tactics

it's the equivalent of Mark McGwire using steroids in baseball "before it was illegal"
 
guaranteeed said:
regardless of the rules, they have ruined the spirit of the game

they want to win, but not on the field and not using their minds, there has always been a cloud around them about their use of outside tactics

it's the equivalent of Mark McGwire using steroids in baseball "before it was illegal"
Click to expand...

Mcgwire - using a RX without a valid prescription from a Dr. has always been illegal in the U.S. - mlb and Bud selig chose to look the other way because it boosted attendance after the strike - but this is a different discussion.

Not sure they have "ruined the spirit of the game"... it might be for you but not the other 99.999 who watch the game.. but it is your opinion..... :shake:

cant agree with the this - but not on the field and not using their minds
 
CASH said:
not at all, no rationalizing at all...

what Fan puff pieces? I think I have been sharing info, trying to explain them (probably not well enough for some of you critics) What exactly have you shared to make for a good discussion?? Always open for a good discussion but you have not provided anything? Have you? only when it is a chance to dig at the Pats, coach organization, which is fine, Hate all you want, provide something to the discussion with some backup...

I posted the grantland article for how the media sensationalized stories and you write this :
Sounds like patriot fans want to rationalize the cheating by calling everyone else haters

I said nothing about hating,,,media runs with a story true or false.. like Kravitz and Mortenson..... one had to apologize the other finally did it in a round about way...
Click to expand...

Just trying to give balance to the thread. I'm not going spend my time posting opinion pieces that are against Brady and the Pats. Where the truth? It's somewhere in the middle. You"re a fan I understand, but come on there is so much smoke around this team, has been for years.

They've lost the pr battle and that is all that matters nowadays. They're frauds and cheats. Just how I see it
 
Michael McCann ‏@McCannSportsLaw <small class="time" style="font-size: 13px; color: rgb(136, 153, 166);"> 3m3 minutes ago</small>
Michael McCann retweeted Adam Schefter
This is why a settlement is so unlikely: Tom Brady will never admit to what Roger Goodell needs him to admit to.
Michael McCann added,

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefterTom Brady is open to accepting some form of suspension, but only if it can be for failing to cooperate with the... http://fb.me/40f9Z0Q24




 
My only hope is that Brady admits to obstructing the investigation as that is a complete admission of guilt in deflating the balls. One does not obstruct investigations where they have done nothing wrong.

Begging that he admits to that, so I can know that he admitted to what we all know is true anyway.
 
CMyyqbjUYAAio6z.jpg:large
 
Elbutre88 said:
ummm, the boston herald only apologized about the accusation of taping the rams walk through before the super bowl, which they said was wrong, and i never mentioned. they didn't apologize for anything else.

calling me a hater is an incredible leap. i'm just reading articles and what not. and im gonna go ahead an pat myself on the back for being correct about spygate without even googling. they taped defensive signals, it was against the rules, period end of story. this whole other thing that you're bringing up ain't got a thing to do with it. that website looks like a couple of pats fans put it up and it's 100% wrong, at least according to the nyt and espn. lo siento.
Click to expand...


http://www.barstoolsports.com/bosto...pats-filmed-the-rams-super-bowl-walk-through/


http://espn.go.com/espn/corrections

Espn apology.
 
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