Tom Brady---Forever a Fraud?

Elbutre88 said:
it'll go to an arbitrator, but folks were talkin about him or bobby kraft suing the NFL in like, civil court.

still: if nothing was going on, why did kraft fire those two dudes?
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Not fired (that i know of) indefinitely suspended while the investigation is going on. Makes sense until the investigation is over. similar to hardy, peterson, rice... all suspended until over...
 
this is a good one........



Rule 2 goes on to state that the footballs shall remain “under the supervision of the referee until they are delivered to the football attendant just prior to the start of the game.” (pg. 32). The report concludes that “football attendant” refers to the ball boys. Nowhere in the report, however, is there any discussion about whether the referee or other League officials failed to properly maintain this supervision, which one would have expected to have been particularly vigilant in the wake of the Colts expressed concerns. The report acknowledges that game officials specifically allowed Mr. McNally to take the game footballs from the dressing room of the Officials’ Locker Room (where the referee was) into the separate sitting room (pg. 55). No one told Mr. McNally that he could not then proceed to the field with the footballs. When the NFC Championship Game ended abruptly in overtime and Mr. McNally started from the back of the sitting room towards the door to the hallway, he walked by numerous League officials in the sitting room. As the report states (pg. 55), the sitting room was crowded with “NFL personnel, game officials and others gathered there to watch the conclusion of the NFC Championship Game on television.” Mr. McNally had to navigate this crowd of officials to make it through the sitting room with two large bags of footballs on his shoulders. Mr. McNally, a physically big man, hoisted two large bags of footballs and lumbered past all these League officials and out the door of the Officials’ Locker Room. As is clear from the report, no one objected; no one told him to stop; no one requested that he wait to be accompanied by a League official; no one told him that a League official had to carry the footballs to the field. After he walked past all of these League officials and out the door of the Officials’ Locker Room to the hallway, he then walked past James Daniel, an NFL official and one of the people who had been alerted to the Colts psi concerns pre-game (pg. 45).

Mr. Daniel, as seen on the security video, looked at Mr. McNally carrying the bags of footballs toward the field unaccompanied by any League or game official, and made no objection to Mr. McNally continuing unaccompanied to the field. In short, if officials lost track of the location of game footballs, it was not because Mr. McNally stealthily removed them. (Omitted from the investigation were interviews with all those League officials whom Mr. McNally walked past with the bags of footballs on his shoulders.) Even after halftime, when obvious attention was being paid to game footballs and psi issues by League and game officials, who took control of the footballs at halftime, the security video shows Mr. McNally, with no objection, taking the footballs from the Officials’ Locker Room back to the field totally unaccompanied by any League or Game official. Mr. McNally’s removal of the footballs from the Officials’ Locker Room before the game began was simply not unauthorized, unknown, unusual, or in violation of some protocol or instruction. The report nonetheless portrays Mr. McNally’s departure from the Officials’ Locker Room before the game as a step in secretly taking the footballs for nefarious reasons.
 
CASH said:
Not fired (that i know of) indefinitely suspended while the investigation is going on. Makes sense until the investigation is over. similar to hardy, peterson, rice... all suspended until over...
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naw. hardy and peterson were still gettin paid. these two dudes ain't gettin paid.
 
hmmmm....

Among other things, they provided 17 witnesses, access to relevant stadium facilities (e.g., equipment room, Officials’ Locker Room, the bathroom off the hallway) on multiple occasions, the game footballs and bags of footballs, information on the stadium heating system, recorded temperature information from game day, the equipment room pump, email searches, access to phones, etc.


Since the Patriots were the target of this investigation and since information coming directly from game officials and League officials was crucial — and it was the League that also employed the investigators — Patriots’ counsel requested to be present during interviews of such League personnel. That request was rejected

. Patriots’ counsel also requested from the outset that he be provided with the actual halftime psi measurements. That information was not provided until March 23, over two months into the investigation. It was provided then only on the condition that it not be disclosed and, particularly, that it not be disclosed to the media until the final report was issued. This condition was imposed in the face of the extensively reported misinformation about halftime football psi that the League had refused to correct. One can only speculate why it was so important for the League that the accurate halftime information be withheld from the public until it was ultimately part of a report that downplayed the science and instead relied on selective texts.
 
takeit said:
and if they are taking that stance why isn't brady suspended without pay?
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From the Pats? The league suspended him without pay, why would the Pats have to?

And again, he's an NFL player represented by a union, these guys are locker room attendants. Are we really asking this question seriously, as if the Pats suspending the two guys and not Brady would actually mean something?
 
Elbutre88 said:
it's been all over talk radio.
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I very rarely listen to talk radio... especially sports here....can only take it for a few minutes at a time... ..

no idea where you are or what you are listening to... maybe put on an audio book... :)
 
Elbutre88 said:
there's no logical explanation. it don't look good.
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There's no logical explanation why the Pats didn't suspend Brady without pay but did suspend the 2 locker room attendants? Are you contending that NFL teams treat their locker room staff, ball boys, etc in the same manner they do not only their players, but their star QB? With a straight face?
 
takeit said:
Is Brady going to have to give his texts to the arbitrator? That would be interesting.
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I'm interested to see if he has to give the texts over as well. The NFL doesn't have subpoena power, not sure if the arbitrator would, but it's not a court of law so I'd imagine he doesn't have subpoena power either.
 
No subpoena power

Arbitrator wouldn't either and shouldn't. It's essentially a work dispute no one should be forced to hand over personal materials for that
 
the appeal has been officially filed...

NFLPA challenges NFL to stand behind its report and go with an independent arbitrator ..

just from an entertainment and business POV, will be very interesting to see how this plays out... I would expect all owners and players to have gag orders set upon themselves or via the union....

next steps
- pick an arbitrator
- have 10 days to pick a date - not likely until june... hardy's is may 28th..
 
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Lareux said:
There's no logical explanation why the Pats didn't suspend Brady without pay but did suspend the 2 locker room attendants? Are you contending that NFL teams treat their locker room staff, ball boys, etc in the same manner they do not only their players, but their star QB? With a straight face?
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naw.

cash said maybe they suspended the two dudes because it was SOP, just like when AP or greg hardy got suspended during their trials. takeit and i called bullshit, because they woulda suspended brady during the investigation as well. leaving out the part where AP and hardy were still gettin paid, and these ball boys aint.

if it is SOP to suspend employees during an investigation, then there's no logical explanation as to why brady wasn't as well.
 
CASH said:
the appeal has been officially filed...

NFLPA challenges NFL to stand behind its report and go with an independent arbitrator ..

just from an entertainment and business POV, will be very interesting to see how this plays out... I would expect all owners and players to have gag orders set upon themselves or via the union....

next steps
- pick an arbitrator
- have 10 days to pick a date - not likely until june... hardy's is may 28th..
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picking an arbitrator is gonna be fun.
 
Remember this diddy..................

Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport Jan 20


NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.
 
@bkravitz so - who in the Colts camp leaked the story? Are you going to admit the league/Colts had an agenda?


kravitz is the reporter out of indy who first mentioned the leak.. someone time in the 3rd qtr...



no matter which direction this goes for Brady and the Pats --- some folks in the NFL will be canned........
 
Brady getting 3 games at the least with Goodell hearing the appeal

Only reason NFL didn't get someone independent is due to the fear is that they would throw the whole thing out and just make Goodell and the NFL look like complete idiots
 
doesn't this make him look like a bigger joke?, I know it is in the CBA , but still

I'd done the lesser of the two evils and have someone else hear it.
 
braves said:
doesn't this make him look like a bigger joke?, I know it is in the CBA , but still

I'd done the lesser of the two evils and have someone else hear it.
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I don't think so because ESPN polls dictate that a large majority of people support the suspension. So if he upholds it, you hear some people whining about it, but the public would be behind him despite the obvious ridiculousness of it all. If the whole thing gets thrown out, he and the NFL are a huge joke
 
Alex said:
I don't think so because ESPN polls dictate that a large majority of people support the suspension. So if he upholds it, you hear some people whining about it, but the public would be behind him despite the obvious ridiculousness of it all. If the whole thing gets thrown out, he and the NFL are a huge joke
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The NFL is already a joke. They've been one well before this BS.

ESPN polls are also hilarious. If you've ever seen how many people that vote in those polls, you'll see how insignificant of an amount it is. The last one I saw scrolling along the ticker during the game last night (something about the Pats, can't remember what it was...but the voters favored the Pats for whatever it was)...there were 540 votes. If the NFL is somehow worried about ESPN polls, and ESPN polls where so few people are actually voting (not that it would matter if 200,000 people voted, it's still insignificant), then they're actually an even bigger joke than anyone thinks.
 
Lareux said:
The NFL is already a joke. They've been one well before this BS.

ESPN polls are also hilarious. If you've ever seen how many people that vote in those polls, you'll see how insignificant of an amount it is. The last one I saw scrolling along the ticker during the game last night (something about the Pats, can't remember what it was...but the voters favored the Pats for whatever it was)...there were 540 votes. If the NFL is somehow worried about ESPN polls, and ESPN polls where so few people are actually voting (not that it would matter if 200,000 people voted, it's still insignificant), then they're actually an even bigger joke than anyone thinks.
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They likely aren't worried about ESPN polling, but its a window into public opinion, and they are worried about that after Ray Rice. I think if this is happens last year then Tom probably doesn't even get suspended. 540 votes is a rather small sample size we can agree on that but I'm gonna guess that you never took STATS in college? I think 200,000 would show up rather significant on a P-test (or whatever its called)
 
Alex said:
They likely aren't worried about ESPN polling, but its a window into public opinion, and they are worried about that after Ray Rice. I think if this is happens last year then Tom probably doesn't even get suspended. 540 votes is a rather small sample size we can agree on that but I'm gonna guess that you never took STATS in college? I think 200,000 would show up rather significant on a P-test (or whatever its called)
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That was supposed to read 20,000. Yes Alex, I took stats in college, I have a degree in statistics.

200k may very well be significant (hell, the 20k may be significant), but it would also depend on other factors. There are millions and millions of NFL 'fans' across the world. Is that 200k an accurate cross section of those fans, or are the people who voted in the same age group and sex, who watch SportsCenter or visit ESPN's site daily? Where do the people live who voted in this poll?

The point was the NFL shouldn't be paying attention to ridiculous polls put out by a ridiculous network. And if you want to play the public opinion card, as if the NFL is going to start paying attention to that, I'd point to the public opinion of Roger Goodell himself and how many fans despise him and the way he runs the league. Apparently they aren't paying attention, because if they were, there's no way good 'ol Rog appoints himself to be the arbitrator in this case.
 
Lareux said:
That was supposed to read 20,000. Yes Alex, I took stats in college, I have a degree in statistics.

200k may very well be significant (hell, the 20k may be significant), but it would also depend on other factors. There are millions and millions of NFL 'fans' across the world. Is that 200k an accurate cross section of those fans, or are the people who voted in the same age group and sex, who watch SportsCenter or visit ESPN's site daily? Where do the people live who voted in this poll?

The point was the NFL shouldn't be paying attention to ridiculous polls put out by a ridiculous network. And if you want to play the public opinion card, as if the NFL is going to start paying attention to that, I'd point to the public opinion of Roger Goodell himself and how many fans despise him and the way he runs the league. Apparently they aren't paying attention, because if they were, there's no way good 'ol Rog appoints himself to be the arbitrator in this case.
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I think this is Goodell saying I am the right man for this job (admittedly made some mistakes) but am going to stand up to them in this case and prove it.......
 
CASH said:
I think this is Goodell saying I am the right man for this job (admittedly made some mistakes) but am going to stand up to them in this case and prove it.......
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You're probably right. I just don't understand how someone can come out publicly saying they agree with, and stand behind the suspension, and then appoint themselves to preside over the "appeal." Whether someone hates the Pats or not, there can't be many people out there who think this makes sense to have Goodell act as the arbitrator in a case in which he's already given his support for the suspension.
 
ya he's not independent at all, it's insane that he's doing this

I hope Brady somehow takes this higher up and ends up with 0 games just to spite the NFLs bullshit here
 
Tom Brady was recently suspended for four games without pay for his role in Delfategate after Ted Wells, the NFL's independent investigator, found that it was "more likely than not" that Brady was "at least generally aware" of "inappopriate activities" regarding the proper inflation of footballs in the AFC title game. On Thursday, the NFLPA filed an appeal letter on Brady's behalf, and Friday morning they published that letter online.
The full text can be read here, but the main thrust of the appeal focuses on four areas.

1. Roger Goodell delegated disciplinary authority to Troy Vincent, which is not allowed in the CBA
The appeal referenced CBA, Art. 46, § 1(a); id., App. A, ¶ 15, which specifically grants authority to the Commissioner, and the Commissioner alone, to impose discipline on players. It also stated, "whereas the CBA expressly authorizes the Commissioner to delegate his authority to serve as Hearing Officer over Article 46 appeals, after consultation with the NFLPA, it contains no corresponding provision authorizing the Commissioner to delegate his exclusive role to impose conduct detrimental discipline to you (Vincent) or anyone else."
That section was connected to a footnote, which stated the following.
1 We also note that one arbitrator has previously found that you, in particular, are unfamiliar with proper NFL discipline procedures and have no role in imposing discipline. Peterson Art. 46 Appeal at 7.​
"You" again refers to Vincent, the NFL's Executive Vice President, who was the one who handed down discipline on Brady and the Patriots.

2. Brady's discipline does not conform to the discipline handed down in similar cases in the past
The appeal letter did not note which specific cases Brady's is similar to, but it should be noted that the Panthers and Vikings were caught using heaters to warm footballs on a cold day last November and were only issued a warning by head of officiating Dean Blandino.
“You can't do anything with the footballs in terms of any artificial, whether you're heating them up, whether it's a regular game ball or kicking ball, you can't do anything to the football,” Blandino said at the time, in a warning issued to all 32 teams. “So that was noticed during the game, both teams were made aware of it during the game and we will certainly remind the clubs as we get into more cold weather games that you can't do anything with the football in terms of heating them up with those sideline heaters.”
This dissimilar treatment, the NFLPA says in the letter, is against "the law of the shop."
The law of the shop from Bounty, Rice, and other proceedings requires that this unfair and inconsistent treatment of Mr. Brady—an exponential change in the severity of the punishment without notice or due process—be vacated. Indeed, no player in the history of the NFL has ever received anything approaching this level of discipline for similar behavior—a change in sanctions squarely forbidden by the CBA and the law of the shop.​

3. The evidence against Brady is circumstantial and inadequate
This is an argument that has been made by both the Patriots organziation and Brady's agent already, but here the NFLPA notes that even the Wells Report concedes "“there is less direct evidence linking [Mr.] Brady to tampering activities than either [Messrs.] McNally or Jastremski," and that "The Report—based on speculative possibilities piled on top of speculative possibilities and a disregard of contrary evidence—is a legally inadequate basis upon which to impose this unprecedented discipline."

4. The NFLPA plans to call Goodell and Vincent as witnesses
The NFLPA informed Vincent and Goodell of its plan to call them both as witnesses to the appeal, specifically to discuss the delegation of disciplinary authority that it considers a violation of the CBA, as well as an alleged "sting operation" set up to entrap Brady and the Patriots.
Because of this, the NFLPA believes that Goodell -- or "anyone with close ties to the NFL" -- cannot serve as arbitrator for Brady's appeal.
In light of the above, the NFLPA believes that neither Commissioner Goodell nor anyone with close ties to the NFL can serve as arbitrator in Mr. Brady's appeal under governing legal standards. The credibility and testimony of both you and Commissioner Goodell will be at issue in the hearing as well as numerous procedural issues regarding your testimony and the testimony of the Commissioner. Thus, this matter is similar to the Rice appeal, where Commissioner Goodell properly concluded that a neutral with no ties to the League, Judge Barbara Jones, should be appointed as Hearing Officer to afford Mr. Rice a lawful hearing before an impartial and to maintain the integrity of the proceedings.​
Given that Goodell has recently delegated the appeals of Adrian Peterson and Greg Hardy to an independent arbitrator, it was seen as a bit of a departure from form when news broke that he would hear Brady's appeal himself. It is felt in some circles that Goodell hearing the appeal would give Brady greater ammo should he eventually take the case to court, given precedent established in the Rice case and others.
This saga, obviously, will continue to play out in the coming weeks. Even after the report has been filed and punishment has been handed down, it's starting to feel a bit like we're still at the beginning of the story, rather than the end.
 
The National Football League and the New England Patriots are working to see if the two sides can resolve differences in the wake of the Deflategate controversy, ESPN reported Monday nigh

ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter reported the Patriots were weighing their next move in regards to the team's punishment, and was engaged with the league in "back-channel conversations" to see if the two can come to an agreement without an appeal
 
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