Super Bowl Discussion - San Francisco vs. Kansas City

Inspekdah said:
Did anyone play vs the Falcons? I think 6 starters were out on defense.
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you can’t keep moving the goalposts every time you are presented with info. They needed to win. They lost. The Titans did not need to beat the Saints. Yet you pointed to that game twice.

PFF lol. They served a purpose at one point. Football Outsiders supplanted them years ago.
 
Vap'sBack said:
I Just Wanna Know What @Sammy Meatballs Thinks!
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only opinion that matters!

Capaholic said:
?
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www.nbcsports.com

49ers' George Kittle named Pro Football Focus' best player for 2019

George Kittle broke the single-season record for receiving yards by a tight end in 2018. And yet, he was even better in the 2019 season. Pro Football Focus hands out the Stephenson Award to their top-graded player at the end of the season. The award has gone to defensive stars Aaron Donald and...
www.nbcsports.com www.nbcsports.com
 
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That fucking garbage is Football Outsiders. Universally recognized as the best analytic site there is.

I’m all set with you. You get way too emotional. If you’re attempting to be funny or sarcastic it’s falling flat. I’m here to talk stats and facts. Not opinions. And not veiled insults. Good luck.
 
Capaholic said:
you can’t keep moving the goalposts every time you are presented with info. They needed to win. They lost. The Titans did not need to beat the Saints. Yet you pointed to that game twice.

PFF lol. They served a purpose at one point. Football Outsiders supplanted them years ago.
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They actually didn’t need to win, to be fair. They were allowed a loss vs either the a falcons or Rams, so it wasn’t a “must win.” Even if they won both games they still would’ve needed to win at Seattle week 17, at that time. Even after the Falcons loss, SF still controlled their own destiny to win the #1 overall seed.

The Titans, on the other hand actually did need to beat beat the Saints, since they needed help to get in on the final week because of their loss to the Saints. They didn’t control their own destiny to win the #6 seed because of the Saints loss going into the final week of the season, to be fair.
 
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Capaholic said:
you can’t keep moving the goalposts every time you are presented with info. They needed to win. They lost. The Titans did not need to beat the Saints. Yet you pointed to that game twice.

PFF lol. They served a purpose at one point. Football Outsiders supplanted them years ago.
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I guess I need to do a better job quoting. Can't do it well from my phone.

You asked if Henry played? So I was responding to that in stating that in another game Ford, Kwon, Sherman, and Tartt were all out.

I don't mean to say anything that causes an argument. You're a good capper and appreciate your insight. No more Grbac references from me.
 
TheHbomb said:
They actually didn’t need to win, to be fair. They were allowed a loss vs either the a falcons or Rams, so it wasn’t a “must win.” Even if they won both games they still would’ve needed to win at Seattle week 17, at that time. Even after the Falcons loss, SF still controlled their own destiny to win the #1 overall seed.

The Titans, on the other hand actually did need to beat beat the Saints, since they needed help to get in on the final week because of their loss to the Saints. They didn’t control their own destiny to win the #6 seed because of the Saints loss going into the final week of the season, to be fair.
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Actually, I think I’m wrong on Tennessee. Thinking back that game was meaningless for them, too. Wasn’t a must win for either team.
 
6. Who is the referee?
Bill Vinovich, who by day is an accountant from Southern California, is this year’s Super Bowl referee, which is good news for anyone who likes largely hankie-free games. Vinovich’s crews typically are among those with the fewest penalties per season, although he will have an all-star crew, not his usual group, for the upcoming game.

Of course, Vinovich is public enemy No. 1 in New Orleans for a non-call, the one in last year’s NFC Championship Game in which there was no pass-interference penalty on the Rams in a game against the Saints. Vinovich’s crew called that game, although as the referee he wasn’t in the vicinity on the play in question.

Vinovich handled only one 49ers game this year, the Week 6 win over the Rams in Los Angeles. His crew called four penalties for 39 yards against the 49ers and eight for 59 yards against the Rams. The game stretched to 3:11.

Vinovich called the Titans-Ravens divisional-round game earlier this year and he has one previous Super Bowl on his résumé, XLIX between the Seahawks and Patriots. Both games had 12 total penalties.
 
How can the NFL with all the coin they're making still have referees working other jobs? As abysmal officiating has been, they're still not spending the money to train them fulltime?
 
cashflowmatters said:
Capoholic
How is KC D going to stop SF offense?
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How is KC going to slow down Derrick Henry it can’t be done.

Chiefs D has been playing very well for many weeks now. They don’t need to pitch a shutout but they can get stops. They are rushing the passer, stopping the run and have shut down top WR all year. Biggest concern is underneath/dink and dunk shit as the LB’s aren’t great in coverage.
 
Henry had 2 carries second half. Sure their d is probably better as of late but as many said 4 road games in a row and pounding Henry in all those games. Kc d just caught them in a good situation. He still had 65 yards first half when they were in the game and able to stick to the game plan
 
There's a reason he got 2 carries in the 2nd half >>> he was held to 3.6 yards per carry and the run game wasn't working. Also 2 catches for -8 yards.
 
Better questions to ask is how is KC's defense vs. opposing TEs? How are they vs. play action?

And they aren't exactly "shutting down the run". They are significantly better at pass defense... which makes sense looking at their roster.

9ers pass defense was epic this year. Run defense average. Baltimore and Seattle both caused problems with the run.
 
With that being said most of the rushing damage that hurt SF's #s came from opposing QBs as the 9ers vs. top 5 vs. opposing RBs.

9ers have elite speed at LB and have limited opposing TEs all season. Top 10.

On the other side of the ball the Chief's are poor against TEs. Bottom 5. Makes sense with their talent at LB.
 
I don't see the 9ers having much success throwing outside the numbers to WR1/2. Need to use Kittle and Sanders/Debo in the slot...
 
Woah woah woah... KC defense took one thing away in the first half of that game. That was Henry, at least that was their goal. That's why the passing game was so open. The Chiefs didn't stop them AT ALL until that weird drive when Vrabel decided to go away from what was working. Tennessee was doing what they wanted then decided they had to push Henry into the line twice. That's when the game changed. Once KC gets a lead on you, then their defense has more options. That's exactly how both playoff games have went. They have a solid def but it's not great. They use their offense to make it more effective. That's kind of the new norm on both levels with these offensive machines.
 
Tennessee had the ball for one drive between past the two min warning of 1h and start of the 4th quarter. ONE. That is where the two Henry carries came in(6 plays). Overall, they ran 23 plays from late 2Q on. The last 13 were all drives where they had to pass due to the score. They had the ball up 17-14 and tried to be stubborn or got scared on the road. That basically ended the game right there, yes, in the 2Q. I said it then. They gave KC a 3 of 4 possession scenario and that was all she wrote.
 
The thing we'll see, if when KC gets a lead here in the 2H is how SF reacts. The Chiefs defense becomes more aggressive (I'm guessing adjustments as well) at this point with leads. It's a fascinating matchup...it's prolly making Shanahan wet just thinking about scheming for it.
 
wiseplayer said:
How can the NFL with all the coin they're making still have referees working other jobs? As abysmal officiating has been, they're still not spending the money to train them fulltime?
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It's the age old question. I've bitched and moaned about it for years. The money the NFL makes and they just won't do it(this is a general statement). With that being said, I think the NFL likes the controversial calls. It is great talking points and keeps the NFL on people's minds at all times it seems. Errors in officiating is actually good business?
 
I’d say a lot had to go right for Tenn to even score the points they scored.

-1st drive their vaunted red zone offense was held to a fg after two really bad passes
- 2nd drive- interception was dropped after review and they converted a 4th Down on a pass to Humphries that he made by about 2 feet keeping the drive alive.
- 3rd drive: inexplicable hold on 3rd and 22.

And however you slice it, 3.6 ypc for Henry. He had two solid runs on the day.

Folks are right. This is not a top 5 defense or anything. This is a top half of the league defense. A defense that allowed fewer points than SF this year.

I’m not concerned about the defense or the game plan at all.

I’m concerned that this is finally a team the Chiefs can’t get down 10, 14, 17 points to. They cannot start slow or this one is over.
 
This is such a good super bowl... honestly both teams are hard to root against and play fun styles. You really couldn't ask for much more in a big game. Like I said earlier, it is fresh to all of us as well. That is/was much needed.

Obviously I have a rooting side, due to a future, otherwise I prolly would root for the Chefs.
 
Man, re-watching that game, Tennessee's weak pass rush didn't just underwhelm, that was the like watching a FCS school try to pressure Alabama. Did Mahomeboy ever get rid of the ball in less than 3 seconds? Did he have to?
 
Tennessee was middle of the pack as far as adjusted sack rate this year. They got to Mahomes a little bit early but this combo on the OL has been very solid, especially when they put Wisniewski in for Wylie at LG.

despite being one of the best pass blocking lines in the league this year, the 49ers will be the best pass rush they’ve faced this season.
 
Capaholic said:
Tennessee was middle of the pack as far as adjusted sack rate this year. They got to Mahomes a little bit early but this combo on the OL has been very solid, especially when they put Wisniewski in for Wylie at LG.

despite being one of the best pass blocking lines in the league this year, the 49ers will be the best pass rush they’ve faced this season.
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Yep. Tennessee's pass rush is certainly lacking and was always the biggest concern for me. That will be something they need to address in the first round of the draft in April.
 
TheHbomb said:
They actually didn’t need to win, to be fair. They were allowed a loss vs either the a falcons or Rams, so it wasn’t a “must win.” Even if they won both games they still would’ve needed to win at Seattle week 17, at that time. Even after the Falcons loss, SF still controlled their own destiny to win the #1 overall seed.

The Titans, on the other hand actually did need to beat beat the Saints, since they needed help to get in on the final week because of their loss to the Saints. They didn’t control their own destiny to win the #6 seed because of the Saints loss going into the final week of the season, to be fair.
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The Titans did control their fate heading into week 17 because Pittsburgh lost to the Jets in Week 16 to fall behind in conference record.
 
TheHbomb said:
Per The Athletic’s David Lombardi, when Garoppolo has thrown more than 35 passing attempts, the 49ers are 5-1, and Garoppolo averages 8.3 yards per attempt on 70 percent completion and has a touchdown to interception ratio of 14:5.
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Both can be true. I think the 14-5 INT ratio keeps the QBR down.
 
TheHbomb said:
Per The Athletic’s David Lombardi, when Garoppolo has thrown more than 35 passing attempts, the 49ers are 5-1, and Garoppolo averages 8.3 yards per attempt on 70 percent completion and has a touchdown to interception ratio of 14:5.
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Exactly. You can paint any narrative with numbers if you look hard enough. Bottom line is Jimmy's been phenomenal when called upon.
 
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49ers' defense sort of underwhelming in the red zone this season (25th). Not a good trait vs. KC being the best offense in football but is average offensively in the red zone.
 
Inspekdah said:
I'm not sure the 9ers would have had anymore success than they've already had if the QBs were switched. Kyle runs an on-time, accurate, system and I don't see how GQ could be any better last 2 months. Pat also has superior weapons vs. Jimmy.. although Kelce looks like 40 year old Witten in comparison to Kittle.

It's Reid who has benefited most from scrambling QBs making miraculous plays with their feet. McNabb, Vick, Patty M.
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San Francisco offense wouldnt be any better if they had mahomes vs jimmy?
 
guaranteeed said:
San Francisco offense wouldnt be any better if they had mahomes vs jimmy?
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I think the best way to answer that question is I don't think Mahomes would be the QB he is today in SF's offense. It's predicated on PA, accuracy, timing, etc. I think Reid's system that has seen mobile QBs scramble and make huge plays is much better for him and has made him the QB he is today.

I think Jimmy & Kyle could be a perfect fit. Obviously, in Mahomes 2nd season he's on another level (all-time trajectory) vs. G in really his 1st.
 
guaranteeed said:
San Francisco offense wouldnt be any better if they had mahomes vs jimmy?
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Inspekdah said:
I think the best way to answer that question is I don't think Mahomes would be the QB he is today in SF's offense. It's predicated on PA, accuracy, timing, etc. I think Reid's system that has seen mobile QBs scramble and make huge plays is much better for him and has made him the QB he is today.

I think Jimmy & Kyle could be a perfect fit. Obviously, in Mahomes 2nd season he's on another level (all-time trajectory) vs. G in really his 1st.
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Looked at both these quotes and I think this game (at least IMO) is such a fascinating matchup is that their pieces on what they want to run, fit BOTH systems extremely well.

Think that is the "beauty" of both teams' offenses. Andy has flaws, time management being one, but this is the offense he always wanted to run with D5 in Philly. He loves to throw the ball, is great at getting guys in space and has a field general who is playing at a level we haven't seen before. Throw in a top TE, and dynamic speed at the WR position and it is a dangerous combination.

I think people are making a HUGE mistake underrating Jimmy G here. This offense is BUILT for a game manager. Not a stud like Paddy One-Five. Shanny wants to control the line of scrimmage, win the battle of the trenches (on both sides of the ball), but wants to out physical you. Jesus, they're one of the only teams in the league still using a full back for God's sake. It's all a part of the plan. Kyle I think (much like Andy) now is running the offense HE wants to run...interchangable RBs, a smart WR / possession guy in Sanders (great acquisition for them BTW), a smart and PHYSICAL guy that can fly like Deebo...and oh by the way, the best or 2nd best TE in the game who is overall probably better than Kelce because George is a beast run blocking too.

Winner of this game comes down to the following...

1. Adjustments
2. Adjustments
3. Adjustments

Spags went to a cover zero to stop Henry...Vrabel/Tanney didn't adjust....Kyle/Jimmy G are going to. SF plays a formation of the Seahawk Legion of Boom defense with zone schemes...not gonna work too well on 15....SF has to win the time of possession, has to be able to run the ball and keep 15 off the field. Biggest matchup I want to see is how the SF front 4 can pressure KC or if Saleh is going to try to mix things up and do some different things with his linebackers / moving Sherm out of harms way to not get torched by Hardman or Tyreek.

Haven't been this excited for a Super Bowl in a long time. Whichever coach wins I think it will be awesome because they both deserve it. I think you actually may see Sherm get more into not just moving around instead of staying on the left, but actually a lockup on Kelce, who while outsizes him, is Paddy's safety valve.

Very excited for this game.
 
Great post Scarf.

It is such an interesting game. Going to be amazing to see how it plays out.

Sherm so big that the Kelce thing makes a lot of sense to me. I think he'd do a fine job on him. With the issues SF has had on the side opposite Sherm with big plays, then you add in the fact Sherm might not be able to guard Hill if they line him up over there... just presents too many potential weaknesses for the 9ers on defense. If the 9ers can limit the screen, and short passing game, which they certainly could - as they have the LB personnel to do just that - it really comes down to can they create havoc in the backfield or not.
 
Ya, kelce is definitely sherms best matchup I mentioned a few pages back my concern was they just keep him away from him

Because if hes on kelce, then they dont need to bracket him, which chefs definitely have to do with kittle, and it frees up another safety to help cover deep throws

I was initially leaning that they wouldnt have sherm do that, I know he never did in seattle

But a few things make me think they will next sunday, seattle just had a better secondary so they didnt have to, sherm after getting called out by Revis and other players.... hes a very confident guy with an huge ego, I wonder if he might ask for the assignment just to prove em wrong
 
49ers vs “mobile QB’s” (Murray x2, wilson x 2, Jackson):

192 yards passing
56 yards rushing

The rest of league on average vs these same QB’s:

238 yards passing
43 yards rushing
 
B.A.R. said:
Interesting
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It’s interesting because all you hear is how the Niners have difficulty with “mobile quarterbacks,” when in reality they statistically performed better against these QB’s that the rest of the league, on average. The defense was never at full health for any of these games, either.
 
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