MLB Offseason Thread

will Wilson set up or close for the Dodgers? Kenley's better...but ya never know with them. (see start of last season.)

and good for Seattle. will be sad to see Cano go, but it's cool to see a team like that step up to the plate and take a big swing.
 
Huge overpayment, but still reason to celebrate across the nation. Cano bolted the Yankees.
 
OM this one is for you, Keith Law's take

Viewed in a vacuum, the Tigers just misdiagnosed their bullpen problem as an isolated issue with the ninth inning rather than a lack of depth or quality across the board. Signing Joe Nathan to a two-year deal isn't excessive, as he probably has at least that many years of production left in the tank. But Nathan has started to lose velocity and had to shift to heavier usage of his slider as a result, and he's a traditional, one-inning, break-glass-only-in-case-of-save-situation closer, the kind of player usage foisted on us by a stupid stat invented by a writer decades ago.<!--offer--> I hope Nathan sends Jerome Holtzman's heirs a fruit basket.

Viewed in the context of Monday's dump trade, where the Tigers sent Doug Fister to Washington for about 30 cents on the dollar, the Nathan signing looks even worse. Detroit may have given Fister away to clear payroll space to sign Nathan, going from about 200 innings to 60 without adding anywhere near enough talent to balance that out. (I don't know the Tigers' actual payroll limitations, so this is speculation on my part.)

I've spoken to numerous team executives who were shocked at the return for Fister and wish they had been given the opportunity to offer more or to try to assemble a multi-team deal that would give the Tigers the specific pieces they wanted. One contending team's GM, known to be looking for another starter, told me he hadn't talked to the Tigers about Fister in weeks. Another exec with a contender indicated something similar.

The demand for starting pitching is so strong and the supply is so weak that giving one as good as Fister away just to clear space for a 60-inning, 39-year-old reliever leaves the Tigers clearly worse off in the end.
 
Sorta similar to the Votto deal...you know money wise its terrible, but you have to swing for the fences as most free agents arent coming there witout the big name and you have to take your shot while it's open....
 
JumpOnBoard said:
Sorta similar to the Votto deal...you know money wise its terrible, but you have to swing for the fences as most free agents arent coming there witout the big name and you have to take your shot while it's open....
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exactly

they also might only have 5 more elite years of Felix, and they have some prospects coming through now (Zunino, Walker, Franklin) that they might only be thinking about a 5 year window

they are owned by Nintendo too, not exactly in money trouble

I could see a few more moves from the M's this offseason
 
guaranteeed said:
exactly

they also might only have 5 more elite years of Felix, and they have some prospects coming through now (Zunino, Walker, Franklin) that they might only be thinking about a 5 year window

they are owned by Nintendo too, not exactly in money trouble

I could see a few more moves from the M's this offseason
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would they ry and attract that Japanese pitcher people are talking about getting? Figures it would be a good market with the Japan base there.
 
I don't know. These almost never go too well. He'll probably be traded to the Yanks after a couple sub-.500 seasons in Seattle.
 
yeah, these 10 yr contracts don't work out in the end...and yeah, cano crushed what someone like pedroia makes...but you gotta look full picture.

as macklemore points out...the M's greatest moment in their history was Game 5 of the '95 ALDS against the Yankees.

how can you not give a team like that props for trying to do better? for trying to compete with the Angels and Rangers to win their division, and become truly relevant outside the NW?

i say, God Bless you, M's. this is what i wanna see as a fan...not the baloney payroll dumps of miami, houston, etc. fuck that...compete to the best of your ability as a team, or get the fuck outta the game.

and teeed...good point, as they do have some talent coming. although it looks like walker plus for david price is in the works.
 
I sort of disagree. While it's always nice to see a smaller market team step up and sign an A+ free agent player, the novelty of it doesn't make it smart. Refreshing, maybe, but still dumb.
 
^^ that was as a baseball fan. now as a NYY fan...

sad to see Cano go. doubt it'll work out as well as allowing Soriano to go, even if it seems a bit like deja vu all over again. ;)

i am glad they didn't commit that long to cano though. but i'm someone that wishes they woulda had the stones to allow gayrod and cupcake to actually opt out of their contracts, lol.
comparing jacoby to cano isn't apples to apples, fwiw. big difference when a contract ends at 36 vs 41 yrs old...even though i'm still shaking my head at that one, minus a secondary move.

anyhow, the only true negative for me as a fan is in regards to the new draft rules that went into effect the other year.
with the old rules, the Yanks would've received the 6th & 10th overall picks in the '14 June entry draft today...plus 2 1st rd compensation picks. (they would've only lost their own picks for signing jacoby and mccann.)
but with the new rules, everyone loses their best pick available for each FA they sign...FAs that qualify, of course. (there are other facets to the rules that i'm purposely glossing over...this is simply the gist of it. for example, there are still compensation picks involved.)
bottom line...the new rules prevent the Yanks from having a remarkable draft next June, dammit.


if anyone's interested, this is how it works (to date) for the Yanks...assuming i'm not confused by all the changes, lol.
they lose their 1st & 2nd Rd picks for signing McCann and Ellsbury. they gain 2 1st rd compensation picks for losing Cano & Grandy to free agency, after having given them appropriate qualifying offers which they both refused.
however, the rules state you lose your best 2 picks for adding 2 free agents...so the Yanks get their 2nd Rd draft pick back, but now forfeit their best 1st Rd comp pick...which would be the one from the Mutts.
so under the new rules...it's lose-lose in the draft, for any active teams in free agency. shame on you, MLB...shame on you.
the Yanks swap 2 FAs to date, and are lessor off as an MLB team...yet on top of that, their draft next June is worse off that it woulda been had they simply sat tight, &or re-signed their own FAs.
the only teams that benefit from the new system are the ones that stay outta the market when it comes to the best FAs. it's all in order now, so they get to move up a spot each time a team like the M's or the Mutts add a player like today.

and we wonder how owners like Loria get away with what they do... :empty:
 
Why will this turn out any differently than the Angels signing Pujols, the Yankees signing A-Rod, the Red Sox signing Crawford, the Yankees signing C.C., the Nationals signing that billygoat white OF, can't even remember his name? Quarter-bill committed to a second baseman. Good God.
 
tipyerbartender said:
I sort of disagree. While it's always nice to see a smaller market team step up and sign an A+ free agent player, the novelty of it doesn't make it smart. Refreshing, maybe, but still dumb.
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the Seattle/Tacoma market isn't small. was up there this summer. smaller than LA or NY, yes...but what city isn't.

i'll bet it's a very smart business/baseball decision, even if they regret the last 3 years of the contract...assuming it gets them where they wanna go. only they really know their plan though...all we can do is guess at it. i'm sure a big part of this is money they'll be making 'outside' of baseball, like tv/etc.


but i'm also tired of teams whining about the game, and their small market, yet not even trying...so i can only commend the M's.
not to go totally off on a tangent...but there are penalties for spending too much. take that spending limit, divide by two, and make that a spending floor...with the same gotdamned penalties for going below it.
then i'll listen to the BS being spewed by the few teams that refuse to compete. after all, if the Rays can succeed...so can any other market in the game.
 
tipy, I gave you a shoutout on the radio show last night bud..

Nonetheless Seattle , if they get Price will look like a pretty good team.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Why will this turn out any differently than the Angels signing Pujols, the Yankees signing A-Rod, the Red Sox signing Crawford, the Yankees signing C.C., the Nationals signing that billygoat white OF, can't even remember his name? Quarter-bill committed to a second baseman. Good God.
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the teams wouldn't do it if they weren't profiting from it when it's all said & done.

albert will rebound with the halos, before regressing later. crawford rebounded with the dodgers. and gayrod was texas's signing, until the dumb ass opt out that is.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Why will this turn out any differently than the Angels signing Pujols, the Yankees signing A-Rod, the Red Sox signing Crawford, the Yankees signing C.C., the Nationals signing that billygoat white OF, can't even remember his name? Quarter-bill committed to a second baseman. Good God.
Click to expand...

I agree with you totally, all of those teams wouldn't do those deals given hindsight.

But would like to mention that out of all those mentioned, at least ARod/CC brought a ring...what are the odds that Cano gets Seattle one?

Another point was made by a writer concerning the Ellsbury signing...something to the effect that a team like Yanks/LAD, maybe a few more can absorb a contract like that if said player tanks half way through. Many, including Seattle, cannot...good luck to them.

As a three decade plus Yankees fan, losing Cano under these circumstances doesn't really bother me. (Although, unless we've got 2-3 more big moves, it'll sure hurt in the short-run.)
 
Yanks27Sox8 said:
the Seattle/Tacoma market isn't small. was up there this summer. smaller than LA or NY, yes...but what city isn't.

i'll bet it's a very smart business/baseball decision, even if they regret the last 3 years of the contract...assuming it gets them where they wanna go. only they really know their plan though...all we can do is guess at it. i'm sure a big part of this is money they'll be making 'outside' of baseball, like tv/etc.


but i'm also tired of teams whining about the game, and their small market, yet not even trying...so i can only commend the M's.
not to go totally off on a tangent...but there are penalties for spending too much. take that spending limit, divide by two, and make that a spending floor...with the same gotdamned penalties for going below it.
then i'll listen to the BS being spewed by the few teams that refuse to compete. after all, if the Rays can succeed...so can any other market in the game.
Click to expand...

That's lunacy. Thank God for your argument that the Rays draft well. It's the best game, but baseball's professional version is pro wrestling.
 
Yanks27Sox8 said:
the teams wouldn't do it if they weren't profiting from it when it's all said & done.

albert will rebound with the halos, before regressing later. crawford rebounded with the dodgers. and gayrod was texas's signing, until the dumb ass opt out that is.
Click to expand...

Who, besides the Yankees, would have been dumb and rich enough to actually trade for A-Rod's contract?
 
lmao...missed this...Feldman gets 3/30 from houston. :rofl:

on one hand...glad to see them spend something. after all, it's not 'their' money...considering all the free handouts the shit teams/markets get nowadays. ;) on the other hand...10 million a year for a bad #5 SP?

where's the KLaw quote regarding Fister? the SP market is that bad, yet there is zero return for Fister? crazy...
 
If mariners can turn walker in to price it would be a miracle I I think

Lota of scouts started to doubt walker last year
 
guaranteeed said:
If mariners can turn walker in to price it would be a miracle I I think

Lota of scouts started to doubt walker last year
Click to expand...

it would obviously be walker plus...he's just a starting point. anyone down on/doubting taijuan is flat out crazy though, imo...considering his age, how many years he's actually been pitching, the secondary stuff he was working on/developing last season, etc. he's a rare talent...already having sniffed a cup of coffee.

the Rays parlayed Shields into Myer plus, so I'm sure they'll do just fine with Price (who is better than Shields 7 days a week).
 
Ya that's why I think more than walker is needed if you compare it to the return with Myers

And outside Zuni no the Mariners probly don't have enough to make that deal and I don't think they move him
 
Yanks27Sox8 said:
lol, lemme get my BS boots.




the red sox. unfortunately for me, the yanks 'beat' them out at the 11th hour. yay...
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One sport allows the competitive imbalance of MLB. Get it through your head. The Yankees and the Red Sox buy championships. The Red Sox currently seem to be smarter spenders.
 
Remember when the apologists used to point to the Twins as an example of why baseball isn't fucked up? Good times.
 
tipyerbartender said:
One sport allows the competitive imbalance of MLB. Get it through your head. The Yankees and the Red Sox buy championships. The Red Sox currently seem to be smarter spenders.
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a tired argument, and half truths...

tipyerbartender said:
Remember when the apologists used to point to the Twins as an example of why baseball isn't fucked up? Good times.
Click to expand...

you poor injun fan...can i point to the cards now? ;)

one sport allows true balance, hockey...because they have a floor. a cap is no good w/out a floor.

the nfl isn't truly/totally balanced, but it obviously works, and is very close to it...many reasons, but largest part of that is because contracts aren't guaranteed.

anyways, we'll never totally agree here. due to various reasons, baseball can never duplicate either hockey or football. it's got a soft cap, in reality. problem is there's no soft floor (with similar penalties) to bring the teams together.
everything else they do...from the draft, to the new japanese bidding now, to the intl limits now, to all the rev sharing...is all about building up the smaller/lessor teams.
maybe if they 'police' those smaller/lessor teams, it would help the whole.
 
Or they could simply implement a salary cap. Problem solved.
 
I'd be on board to go without baseball for multiple years if the end result was busting the players union.
 
yeah, i'm anti-union...baseball & business...since this isn't china. and i'm also for a cap, but only if there's a floor...and if some of the subsidizing goes away. can only hold someone's hand so much...
 
I'm pretty pro-labor, but I don't really consider professional baseball players to be in a labor union. Entertainers, skilled labor, mercenaries. You don't see Brad Pitt and George Clooney marching on Universal Studios.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
tipyerbartender said:
I'm pretty pro-labor, but I don't really consider professional baseball players to be in a labor union. Entertainers, skilled labor, mercenaries. You don't see Brad Pitt and George Clooney marching on Universal Studios.
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in a way, i am too...if you can be pro-labor, but still anti-union.
from 96 to 04 my NYC install crew was union. found out first hand how ridiculous & unproductive that can be for the business, and the bottom line. my LA crew made much less, worked harder, and we had way more flexibility with things...yet it's not like they were taken advantage of, by any means.

anyhow, i know if my middle boy doesn't go to college...or continue beyond HS as a LHP, lol...i'm gonna advise him to be a fireman.
little bit of risk...huge benefits, thx to the union...and will retire much younger than if he became a VP/GM of a company like his old man.

TheLaw4 said:
Beltran to the Yanks. 3 year deal.
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wow...beltran, ellsbury, ichiro in the OF...with soriano as the DH. know what they said, but Gardner's officially trade bait.
 
Welcome back Doc.
You have been the greatest asset to this organization, one of the great players to have never won a WS really sad thought he'd get it with the Phillies but nevertheless, he is always going to be a legend in our hearts!

Two-time Cy Young Award winner and free-agent pitcher Roy Halladay will announce his retirement Monday in a news conference with the Toronto Blue Jays, having signed a one-day deal with his former team, sources confirmed to ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney.
The Blue Jays have announced a 12:30 p.m. ET news conference at the MLB winter meetings in Lake Buena Vista, Fla., though the reason for the event was not specified.
Halladay missed much of the 2013 season after having surgery on his shoulder in May to repair a partially torn rotator cuff and remove a bone spur. He also had some fraying of the labrum.
Halladay's career has spanned 16 seasons, the last four of which he spent with the Philadelphia Phillies. He has a 203-105 career record with a 3.38 ERA.
 
Good to see Doc go out without clinging on and pitching as a shadow of his former self

And he shoulda won a world series in 2011 but that prick Cliff Lee blew a fucking 4-0 lead to the cardinals in game 2

that fucking cunt
 
Amaro willing to trade Dom Brown to anyone who takes Papelbon.

also willing to move Lee and Hamels.

both of these moves make total sense after the Utley, Byrd and Ruiz signings.

Keep up the good work rube!
 
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