2016 NBA Offseason Discussion

[Lareux]

Someone had to. It was going to happen this offseason. Durant's will be higher.

Durant's should be higher if Conley got that kinda money. Durant and Conley should never be mentioned in the same sentence or compared to each other, outside of them both being NBA players. KD is a top 3-5 player in the league. Mike Conley is nowhere near that level.

 

[Lareux]

wish they just released salary numbers as a % of cap when signed

lots of these numbers wouldnt look so insane

Right. Let's start our own website with the contracts as a percentage of the team's salary cap.

 

[Lareux]

that's sort of my point. No business wants to see their sales go way up but profits stay essentially the same. Granted, this is no ordinary business, but these owners didn't get wealthy because they were dumb.

I absolutely get that the players will earn more because the cap is going way up. And if you can get paid then good for you, but there is a tipping point somewhere along the line where it starts to get ridiculous. Perhaps we are already there. I just think pretty much every contract today was absurd.

And Conley's agent should have some more players knocking on his door soon for what he pulled off. good for him too I guess haha.

If you think the contracts today were absurd, just wait until next year's off season. These contracts are going to look like bargains, as hard as it may be to believe at this point.

As long as their profits are remaining the same and not dropping, the owners are going to pay the players. They absolutely have to if they wish to remain competitive in today's NBA.

 

[nbafan88]

All I'm saying is that the dollars aren't the only thing that matter. Each team's situation is very different and they're willing to pay a player more than he's worth (because they have to pay a minimum that is so high) if it means they'll keep the fans happy and the ticket sales going. Putting every player in a vacuum and comparing contracts to each other is silly

 

[Lareux]

All I'm saying is that the dollars aren't the only thing that matters. Each team's situation is very different and they're willing to pay a player more than he's worth (because they have to pay a minimum that is so high) if it means they'll keep the fans happy and the ticket sales going. Putting every player in a vacuum and comparing contracts to each other is silly

Then why bring up Ronaldo and KD in the first place?

 

[P-Unit]

All that stuff does not matter man. Conley is a fantastic player on and off the court. He has great respect from every one around the league. Idk why everyone gets caught up with the numbers so much. The Grizzlies don't have the option to go into rebuild mode. Losing Conley would put them on that path and he has all the leverage in the world. Don't care about his all star births. What option do they have if they lose him?

so you see nothing wrong with the size of the contract being commensurate with the talent. I get it now.

Just because Memphis was painted into a corner then Conley gets this deal. See how ridiculous that sounds? All that stuff absolutely DOES matter. Memphis is not winning shit this year, next year or the year after with the squad they have. Think of all the cap room they would have if they decided to go after a real impact player or two.

He's a great guy - I agree. So is Joe Mauer, but he's overpaid as fuck too.

 

[nbafan88]

Then why bring up Ronaldo and KD in the first place?

To prove that they're worth more to the team than what they're paying the player.

 

[P-Unit]

If you think the contracts today were absurd, just wait until next year's off season. These contracts are going to look like bargains, as hard as it may be to believe at this point.

As long as their profits are remaining the same and not dropping, the owners are going to pay the players. They absolutely have to if they wish to remain competitive in today's NBA.

definitely agree. queue my rant on this topic for 1 year from today lol

 

[nbafan88]

so you see nothing wrong with the size of the contract being commensurate with the talent. I get it now.

Just because Memphis was painted into a corner then Conley gets this deal. See how ridiculous that sounds? All that stuff absolutely DOES matter. Memphis is not winning shit this year, next year or the year after with the squad they have. Think of all the cap room they would have if they decided to go after a real impact player or two.

He's a great guy - I agree. So is Joe Mauer, but he's overpaid as fuck too.

I don't know what to say about the comment you made of them not winning anything this year. It's a business. Losing Conley would do more than it will paying him. That's my view.

 

[Lareux]

To prove that they're worth more to the team than what they're paying the player.

But then you said you don't think Ronaldo is worth the money he's getting, and you were comparing that to Conley's situation. Either we can compare players and their salaries, or we can't. I'm fine with comparing them, I think you have to in order to have an honest discussion about it...but the dollar value alone doesn't tell the story, it has to be talked about in relation to a percentage of the team's overall salary and the salary cap.

Ronaldo is worth an awful lot more than Mike Conley...in almost every quantifiable way you want to look at it.

 

[guaranteeed]

To prove that they're worth more to the team than what they're paying the player.

but its a different sports, with different price points, $$$, advertising etc.

especially someone like Ronaldo - a club like Real Madrid have something like 35 senior players and maybe around 100 youth players if not more

and NBA team has to pay 12-15 guys

 

[nbafan88]

Wow. Joe Johnson signs with the Jazz. 2 years 22 million. Having a difficult time seeing him in Utah

 

[Lareux]

Wow. Joe Johnson signs with the Jazz. 2 years 22 million. Having a difficult time seeing him Utah

Doesn't make much sense for him, that's for sure. This seems like an "all about the money" deal, there's no way he actually thinks he has a chance to win anything in Utah.

 

[P-Unit]

I don't know what to say about the comment you made of them not winning anything this year. It's a business. Losing Conley would do more than it will paying him. That's my view.

They can't compete with Thunder (with Durant), GS, or SA. They have no rising stars, just a squad full of avg to above avg vets. Tell me where you think the ceiling is. They are a fringe playoff team at best. They aren't going further than the first round.

This is a business. You spend money on assets to make you better and more marketable. $153 million on your PG who is not an elite talent but gets paid like elite talent is NOT GOOD BUSINESS any way you slice it. That money could be better spent elsewhere. That's been my entire take on it. You seem to say that's what they had to do. Perhaps it was, but they overpaid by AT LEAST $10 million per season. That is not good business.

 

[KJ]

Before getting too deep into profits and revenue, these are equitable assets (teams) and that's what the owners sign up for when they buy them

 

[Lareux]

Joe Johnson has made enough money in his career that he should be at the point where he's willing to take much less money for the chance to be on a legit contender with an opportunity to contribute and win a title.

 

[P-Unit]

Joe Johnson has made enough money in his career that he should be at the point where he's willing to take much less money for the chance to be on a legit contender with an opportunity to contribute and win a title.

was just going to say this. He's the type of player that can take a bubble team and help them be a legit contender. Very solid player and would be a tremendous asset for a number of teams.

 

[Lareux]

They can't compete with Thunder (with Durant), GS, or SA. They have no rising stars, just a squad full of avg to above avg vets. Tell me where you think the ceiling is. They are a fringe playoff team at best. They aren't going further than the first round.

This is a business. You spend money on assets to make you better and more marketable. $153 million on your PG who is not an elite talent but gets paid like elite talent is NOT GOOD BUSINESS any way you slice it. That money could be better spent elsewhere. That's been my entire take on it. You seem to say that's what they had to do. Perhaps it was, but they overpaid by AT LEAST $10 million per season. That is not good business.

And at some point, when they realize they aren't going to be winning a title anytime soon and decide they need to change directions in order to stay competitive, that deal is going to be as bad as a contract can be. It's a bad business decision on so many levels.

 

[nbafan88]

But if they let Conley walk you think the fans would be ok with it?

 

[Lareux]

was just going to say this. He's the type of player that can take a bubble team and help them be a legit contender. Very solid player and would be a tremendous asset for a number of teams.

He should have been asking Cleveland what they are willing to pay him for a couple years. Instead he decides to go an get as much money as he can, which sees him ending up in Utah with virtually zero chance to even sniff a title.

 

[nbafan88]

im shocked he went to the west coast

 

[KJ]

Believe I saw the other day that the Bucks are now valued at a billion dollars, that's capitalism baby

 

[nbafan88]

Especially to Salt Lake City. Makes no sense.

 

[nbafan88]

Believe I saw the other day that the Bucks are now valued at a billion dollars, that's capitalism baby

Did you watch Bill Simmons this week?

 

[Lareux]

But if they let Conley walk you think the fans would be ok with it?

Maybe not right away, but yeah they'd be fine with it at some point.

But in reality, who fucking cares what the fans think? The problem with lots of fans is that they think their opinions mean anything. Something like a 'boycott' to show the team they're not happy is never going to happen, fans are going to go to the games pretty much regardless of what decisions a team makes regarding players. If we think the owners take the fans' opinions into account when they're making decisions, I think we're fooling ourselves.

 

[KJ]

Did you watch Bill Simmons this week?

Just can't

 

[P-Unit]

But if they let Conley walk you think the fans would be ok with it?

At first? Probably not. It would depend on what they do in response.

they would sign somebody (or a couple somebody's) else with all that money.

 

[nbafan88]

Maybe not right away, but yeah they'd be fine with it at some point.

But in reality, who fucking cares what the fans think? The problem with lots of fans is that they think their opinions mean anything. Something like a 'boycott' to show the team they're not happy is never going to happen, fans are going to go to the games pretty much regardless of what decisions a team makes regarding players. If we think the owners take the fans' opinions into account when they're making decisions, I think we're fooling ourselves.

All I'm talking about is revenue. That's all. Letting Conley go basically just sends the message that they're rebuilding. I'm curious to see how much rondo gets

 

[Lareux]

All I'm talking about is revenue. That's all. Letting Conley go basically just sends the message that they're rebuilding. I'm curious to see how much rondo gets

You asked about the fans, did you not?

 

[nbafan88]

Just can't

You should.

 

[KJ]

If there's a segment I need to watch, fine, but I can't deal with that fucker for more than a few minutes. It's trash media and I'm fairly lenient.

 

[Lareux]

You should.

If they came out with the transcripts of his show, I bet a lot more people would be interested in it. The problem with Simmons when he was on ABC/ESPN was the fact that he was on camera and people had to listen to him talk...he's much more digestible in print than he is on camera.

 

[P-Unit]

All I'm talking about is revenue. That's all. Letting Conley go basically just sends the message that they're rebuilding. I'm curious to see how much rondo gets

sometimes that's ok. Wolves will be good (after a 10 year rebuild thanks to David Kahhhhhhhhhhhn), Sixers will be good, Lakers will be g__ (well maybe not for a while). Meanwhile, the team still takes in all that revenue that will, in turn, get spent back on the product in the form of better talent in the future.

 

[nbafan88]

If there's a segment I need to watch, fine, but I can't deal with that fucker for more than a few minutes. It's trash media and I'm fairly lenient.

I was impartial on Simmons going into his HBO gig. I could see why people are annoyed by him. So far the two episodes were good. Barkey is always entertaining. And this week he had Mark Cuban and Bill hader on. Hader was great as usual. Don't see any reason to hate the show. It's much more about the guests than him

the reason I mentioned is because they talked about the ridiculous values of NBA teams ok this weeks show

 

[nbafan88]

This is awesome

https://twitter.com/i/moments/749024372787073025

 

[cogenman]

Despite his injury history the Knicks sign Joakim Noah for 4 years $72 million.

People are saying he barely has any cartilage in one of his knees. Big time risk taking him, but love his hustle.

 

[~Utah]

Do you think Ronaldo should get paid as much as he does? No.

Are you insane? Ronaldo is worth 3 times more then Lebron to his team/country , forget about fucking Mike Conley

 

[~Utah]

but its a different sports, with different price points, $$$, advertising etc.

especially someone like Ronaldo - a club like Real Madrid have something like 35 senior players and maybe around 100 youth players if not more

and NBA team has to pay 12-15 guys

It's really not about that teed. It's about what a player is worth. Ronaldo can go just about anywhere in the world outside of the USA and Canada and get recognized. Ronaldo sells way more across the world. You can go anywhere and see Ronaldo jerseys. Mike Conley wouldn't get recognized outside of Memphis. These contracts are jokes and I can tell you now that the issue of amnesties will come up again rather soon.

 

[nbafan88]

Are you insane? Ronaldo is worth 3 times more then Lebron to his team/country , forget about fucking Mike Conley

my initial post does not show my intent. I don't really know what I was thinking at the hour. My whole point was that teams will pay a player a shit ton of money and it looks crazy to the average person but that player is bringing in more revenue to the team/owner. Yes there are bad contracts. Of course. But not as many as people make it seem.

When people bitched and moaned about Kobe not taking a pay cut in his final seasons, such a joke.

Lebron should be making $100 million a year for how important he is to a city and organization. He basically runs the entire team

 

[~Utah]

my initial post does not show my intent. I don't really know what I was thinking at the hour. My whole point was that teams will pay a player a shit ton of money and it looks crazy to the average person but that player is bringing in more revenue to the team/owner. Yes there are bad contracts. Of course. But not as many as people make it seem.

When people bitched and moaned about Kobe not taking a pay cut in his final seasons, such a joke.

Lebron should be making $100 million a year for how important he is to a city and organization. He basically runs the entire team

thats fine, and I realize these contracts are a necessity. If not the players someone else would be gettign them. It's just crazy to think that guys like Mike Conley and Nicolas Batum or making far more then legitimate world wide super stars like Messi and Ronaldo.

 

[nbafan88]

I know nothing about the economies of soccer.

 

[reNew Orleans]

Messi and Ronaldo make far more on contracts alone... Don't they pull in like 50 million a year from their clubs? Then you have endorsements, etc

 

[nbafan88]

The worldwide recognition argument is silly. Of course more people will recognize Ronaldo and Messi when soccer is all most people know/care about. It doesn't mean they should get paid more by their employer. That's what endorsements are for. Their salary is based on how important they are to the product on the court/field. And how that change in performance will affect ticket sales.

 

[~Utah]

Messi and Ronaldo make far more on contracts alone... Don't they pull in like 50 million a year from their clubs? Then you have endorsements, etc

they do not make anywhere near 50 million a year from their clubs. Ronald makes 288,000 pounds a week. Which is roughly 15 million pounds a week, which is a shade under 20 million in today's market. They make a ton off of endorsements, so they do make more then a lot of these guys signing mega contracts in the NBA.

 

[~Utah]

The worldwide recognition argument is silly. Of course more people will recognize Ronaldo and Messi when soccer is all most people know/care about. It doesn't mean they should get paid more by their employer.

it certainly does, they make more money for their employee.

 

[~Utah]

If you have two people working under you, and one brings in about 10 times more money then the other guy will ever dream of bringing in for you, you don't compensate the one more then the other? I am glad I do not have to work for you.

 

[nbafan88]

If you have two people working under you, and one brings in about 10 times more money then the other guy will ever dream of bringing in for you, you don't compensate the one more then the other? I am glad I do not have to work for you.

are you comparing a soccer player and a basketball player? I don't understand

how are possibly quantifying and comparing two completely different sports. Compare it to an American sport.

 

[dudleysdad]

Why the hell is soccer in this thread, keep your crap outta here Alex.

 

[B.A.R.]

Why the hell is soccer in this thread, keep your crap outta here Alex.

hahaha, this.

 

[~Utah]

are you comparing a soccer player and a basketball player? I don't understand

how are possibly quantifying and comparing two completely different sports. Compare it to an American sport.

if i compare whats happening to other American sports whats happening in the NBA is even more absurd