Tom Brady---Forever a Fraud?

Personal preference is an advantage, fact.

Take off your TD Tommy jersey and admit that.
 
kjohnson109 said:
Personal preference is an advantage, fact.

Take off your TD Tommy jersey and admit that.
Click to expand...

Personal preference is an advantage? Okay, I guess.

Either way, that's NOT what I was talking about when discussing whether an advantage was gained. I gave proof to back up what I said. You're just being yourself.
 
And I have no idea if that data was manipulated, neither do you unless you've performed the experiment yourself. I don't really care, it's more difficult for me to catch a fully deflated ball than one with a little less air, it's the only experiment I need.

A lawn is my lab.
 
kjohnson109 said:
And I have no idea if that data was manipulated, neither do you unless you've performed the experiment yourself. I don't really care, it's more difficult for me to catch a fully deflated ball than one with a little less air, it's the only experiment I need.

A lawn is my lab.
Click to expand...

Why would you even assume the data was manipulated though? That makes no logical sense to even think that the data was manipulated...they showed the fucking tests they did...they have a reputation and are pretty well respected. Why would they manipulate the data when they didn't have a conclusion going in? They weren't doing the experiments to fit their conclusion, they were performing the experiments to see what the truth was....like scientists do. For someone who purports an awful lot to love science, you seem to have an odd understanding of it.
 
the nfl doesn't care if he gained an advantage. he's gonna get burnt because he got caught and he tried covering his ass.

smoking weed doesn't give you an advantage on the playing field but it's against the rules.
 
Lareux said:
Why would you even assume the data was manipulated though? That makes no logical sense to even think that the data was manipulated...they showed the fucking tests they did...they have a reputation and are pretty well respected. Why would they manipulate the data when they didn't have a conclusion going in? They weren't doing the experiments to fit their conclusion, they were performing the experiments to see what the truth was....like scientists do. For someone who purports an awful lot to love science, you seem to have an odd understanding of it.
Click to expand...

are we talking about climate change or deflate gate?
 
How do you know they didn't have a conclusion going in? Why was the video removed? I've never heard that the NFL asked them to remove it.

The fact is, lets assume that scientifically it showed zero advantage, but it was his personal preference that they be underinflated. That's all the advantage you need to be an offender of that rule.
 
Elbutre88 said:
the nfl doesn't care if he gained an advantage. he's gonna get burnt because he got caught and he tried covering his ass.

smoking weed doesn't give you an advantage on the playing field but it's against the rules.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
If you take the Wells report at face value, in the end this is a pretty simple case of equipment doctoring by a player. Baseball has already established a precedent for punishing ball doctoring and corked bats, roughly 1/10th of the season, 10 games in baseball = 1 game in football.

If you want to add a game for Brady being uncooperative and basically lying, fine. 2 games. I don't think it's an issue that warrants any more than that.

If you want to throw a token fine at the Pats based on cumulative transgressions and malfeasance by their equipment staff, I'm ok with that too.

If you believe the Wells report, I don't see how you can punish Hoodie. Again not unlike baseball, where the manager is usually not punished for a pitcher doctoring the ball.
 
No matter how this this turns out - it will get ugly before anything is resolved...

think Brady's agent will attack the the nfl office for some kind of conspiracy against brady and the pats..... in particular the asshole - former colts exec. for putting the whole thing in motion...
 
Gandolf said:
If you take the Wells report at face value, in the end this is a pretty simple case of equipment doctoring by a player. Baseball has already established a precedent for punishing ball doctoring and corked bats, roughly 1/10th of the season, 10 games in baseball = 1 game in football.

If you want to add a game for Brady being uncooperative and basically lying, fine. 2 games. I don't think it's an issue that warrants any more than that.

If you want to throw a token fine at the Pats based on cumulative transgressions and malfeasance by their equipment staff, I'm ok with that too.

If you believe the Wells report, I don't see how you can punish Hoodie. Again not unlike baseball, where the manager is usually not punished for a pitcher doctoring the ball.
Click to expand...

I agree, 2 game seems fair. Some reports say 6-8 , that would be ridiculous
 
CASH said:
No matter how this this turns out - it will get ugly before anything is resolved...

think Brady's agent will attack the the nfl office for some kind of conspiracy against brady and the pats..... in particular the asshole - former colts exec. for putting the whole thing in motion...
Click to expand...

I thought it was nfl Office who set up the supposed sting operation

Which was just a horrible way to handle
 
CASH said:
No matter how this this turns out - it will get ugly before anything is resolved...

think Brady's agent will attack the the nfl office for some kind of conspiracy against brady and the pats..... in particular the asshole - former colts exec. for putting the whole thing in motion...
Click to expand...

I just don't see why the NFL would have some conspiracy against brady and the pats. They are a huge draw for the league, and I'm sure they aren't happy about having the opening game of the season without Brady playing. Wouldn't surprise me if there is some type of conspiracy by other teams against the Pats.
 
I should have said 1 maybe 2 people in the office , former colts exec who now works in the nfl office...( name slips my mind) hates the Pats. He set up the sting..

and have strange suspicion goodell had no idea it was going on...
 
Why does it really matter who set up a sting (besides that it's a shitty thing to do)? If they weren't doing something wrong then it nothing would have come from it.
 
takeit said:
Why does it really matter who set up a sting (besides that it's a shitty thing to do)? If they weren't doing something wrong then it nothing would have come from it.
Click to expand...

because then it is a conspiracy vs 1 of the 32 teams (the association).....in the past if the office had heard of possible wrong doing they would send a memo out to all teams about it and not to do it anymore... but that is not what happened in this case...,
 
Cash - what do you think about the texts between the equipment guy and brady? what do you think of the invite to the qb room?
 
takeit said:
Cash - what do you think about the texts between the equipment guy and brady? what do you think of the invite to the qb room?
Click to expand...

Before i answer- I thought when this came out Brady would get 2-4 games..... Not being a fan boy if he cheated then suspend him....I do think Brady at some point asked these guys to put the ball on the lower end of the legal number knowing that the pressure would decrease as the game went on.. (not cheating)

I have read through through this report including the texts from 2014 - there is no "Smoking gun" evidence, sure the guy calling himself the "deflator" (funny by the way) makes you think something but take the whole report there is so much missing - so much non-sense - the whole thing with the ref of 19 years being told about the situation before the game however he didnt write these important things down??? didnt have enough time to check the other balls and he was told there was an investigation going on??

As much as I don't like him take a look at king's mmqb report today..... and the print in red just confirms what we know that someone in the office put a sting together vs the Patriots .. otherwise there would have been a notice sent out to all teams....


Since the NFL allowed all teams to condition footballs the way they wanted for use in both home and road games in 2006, the idea was that quarterbacks could play with footballs in the same shape for 16 weekends, not eight. (Previously, road quarterbacks played with footballs broken in in whatever way the home team wished.) But road teams do not bring their own ballboys to games. So, if a home-team ballboy was doctoring the footballs in any way before the game, that’s not something that could happen on the road. Brady, of course, is suspected of having the balls doctored for him in the AFC title game, and it’d be naïve to think that this was the first game in which two longtime club employees messed with the footballs for Brady.
But if John Jastremski or Jim McNally have done any funny business with the balls over the past few years, the results sure don’t show it. Some telling numbers for Brady in the nine regular seasons between 2006 and 2014:
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Home Games[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Road Games[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Passer Rating[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]100.2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]99.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Passing Yards per Game[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]271.8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]274.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]TD-to-Interception Differential[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Plus-96[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Plus-96[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
Wouldn’t you figure that if Brady was getting such an edge by having footballs doctored before home games—and by the simple factor of home-field advantage—that, more probable than not, he’d be markedly better at home?



5. As Mike Reiss of ESPN Boston pointed out Sunday, there have been two recent violations regarding fair play with footballs. One happened last November, when TV cameras at the Minnesota-Carolina game in frigid Minneapolis caught footballs being warmed up by sideline heaters. That’s a rules violation, but the teams were simply warned not to do it again. In 2012, the Chargers were found to be using towels with stickum on the sidelines, presumably for players to be able to grip the footballs better. The team was fined $25,000. Is the presumption that Brady was using footballs about 1 pound per square inch under the minimum limit worth a multigame suspension compared to the other two violations? The other two violations were proven. This one is “more probable than not,” according to the Wells report.

6. Officials used two gauges at halftime of the AFC Championship Game to measure the air pressure in 11 New England footballs and four Indianapolis footballs. On page 113 of the Wells report, after a description of the scientific Ideal Gas Law (eyes glaze over), Wells says the Patriots footballs should have measured between 11.32 psi and 11.52 psi. The average of one gauge for the 11 balls was 11.49 psi, on the upper range of what the balls should measure. The average of the other gauge was 11.11 psi, clearly lower than what the balls should have measured. Average all 22 readings, and you get 11.30 … two-one-hundredths lower what the Ideal Gas Law would have allowed for balls that started the day at 12.5 psi. You’re going to suspend someone—never mind a franchise quarterback, never mind without a smoking gun—for an air-pressure measurement of 11.30 when the allowable measurement would have been 11.32?

 

5. As Mike Reiss of ESPN Boston pointed out Sunday, there have been two recent violations regarding fair play with footballs. One happened last November, when TV cameras at the Minnesota-Carolina game in frigid Minneapolis caught footballs being warmed up by sideline heaters. That’s a rules violation, but the teams were simply warned not to do it again. In 2012, the Chargers were found to be using towels with stickum on the sidelines, presumably for players to be able to grip the footballs better. The team was fined $25,000. Is the presumption that Brady was using footballs about 1 pound per square inch under the minimum limit worth a multigame suspension compared to the other two violations? The other two violations were proven. This one is “more probable than not,” according to the Wells report.

I think it was Carolina shown on video and there should have been a fine or something. I thought the chargers used the standard towels at the time but weren't able to produce them or they weren't where they were supposed to be (or something like that).

I can see where you are coming from in that this has been blown WAY out of proportion and that no other team would have this huge investigation and 100+ page report - you're probably right. Even though if another huge QB is involved (Manning, Rogers, Brees) I think the same thing happens.

While there may not be a "smoking gun" there are some damning things that when put together look really bad. In this day and age with how the NFL is trying to clean up their image they can't just sit on it and do nothing.
 
takeit said:

5. As Mike Reiss of ESPN Boston pointed out Sunday, there have been two recent violations regarding fair play with footballs. One happened last November, when TV cameras at the Minnesota-Carolina game in frigid Minneapolis caught footballs being warmed up by sideline heaters. That’s a rules violation, but the teams were simply warned not to do it again. In 2012, the Chargers were found to be using towels with stickum on the sidelines, presumably for players to be able to grip the footballs better. The team was fined $25,000. Is the presumption that Brady was using footballs about 1 pound per square inch under the minimum limit worth a multigame suspension compared to the other two violations? The other two violations were proven. This one is “more probable than not,” according to the Wells report.

I think it was Carolina shown on video and there should have been a fine or something. I thought the chargers used the standard towels at the time but weren't able to produce them or they weren't where they were supposed to be (or something like that).

I can see where you are coming from in that this has been blown WAY out of proportion and that no other team would have this huge investigation and 100+ page report - you're probably right. Even though if another huge QB is involved (Manning, Rogers, Brees) I think the same thing happens.

While there may not be a "smoking gun" there are some damning things that when put together look really bad. In this day and age with how the NFL is trying to clean up their image they can't just sit on it and do nothing.
Click to expand...

I completely understand this.
But if so worried why not nip it in the bud? How does this help their image?


So now take this huge report, brake it into pieces - lots of here say and things that make you shake your head and footnotes ... you have this massive investigation and the best you can say is "Brady was generally aware"...
This is throwing it out there for the public to make an opinion - which again just makes me feel that someone in the office is trying to "get" or "embarrass" the Pats organization.... i still believe Goodell had no idea this sting was going on...
 
Brady and Belichick need to be suspended indefinitely.

The team needs to be docked multiple draft picks.

All tainted Super Bowls need to be stripped (read: all of them that they have "won").

Goodell needs to "Donald Sterling" Kraft.

This brazen, organization wide, systematic disregard for any and all rules from the Patriots is truly disgusting. It is a slap in the face to every other organization in the NFL. The Patriots have time and time again demonstrated that they feel the rules do not apply to them. The hammer needs to be dropped.

(But don't worry Pats homers and cheating sympathizers; Goodell doesn't have the balls to do anything substantial...regardless of how many times these cheating fucks get caught cheating)

((annnnd for everyone saying oh it doesn't even make a difference, no big deal - isn't that worse?? Cheating when there's no reason to cheat?? Just because you have this inate urge to cheat all the time??))
 
Smokedawg said:
Brady and Belichick need to be suspended indefinitely.

The team needs to be docked multiple draft picks.

All tainted Super Bowls need to be stripped (read: all of them that they have "won").

Goodell needs to "Donald Sterling" Kraft.

This brazen, organization wide, systematic disregard for any and all rules from the Patriots is truly disgusting. It is a slap in the face to every other organization in the NFL. The Patriots have time and time again demonstrated that they feel the rules do not apply to them. The hammer needs to be dropped.

(But don't worry Pats homers and cheating sympathizers; Goodell doesn't have the balls to do anything substantial...regardless of how many times these cheating fucks get caught cheating)

((annnnd for everyone saying oh it doesn't even make a difference, no big deal - isn't that worse?? Cheating when there's no reason to cheat?? Just because you have this inate urge to cheat all the time??))
Click to expand...


View attachment 38692
 
Smokedawg said:
Brady and Belichick need to be suspended indefinitely.

The team needs to be docked multiple draft picks.

All tainted Super Bowls need to be stripped (read: all of them that they have "won").

Goodell needs to "Donald Sterling" Kraft.

This brazen, organization wide, systematic disregard for any and all rules from the Patriots is truly disgusting. It is a slap in the face to every other organization in the NFL. The Patriots have time and time again demonstrated that they feel the rules do not apply to them. The hammer needs to be dropped.

(But don't worry Pats homers and cheating sympathizers; Goodell doesn't have the balls to do anything substantial...regardless of how many times these cheating fucks get caught cheating)

((annnnd for everyone saying oh it doesn't even make a difference, no big deal - isn't that worse?? Cheating when there's no reason to cheat?? Just because you have this inate urge to cheat all the time??))
Click to expand...
:rofl: :shake:
 
CASH said:
I completely understand this.
But if so worried why not nip it in the bud? How does this help their image?


So now take this huge report, brake it into pieces - lots of here say and things that make you shake your head and footnotes ... you have this massive investigation and the best you can say is "Brady was generally aware"...
This is throwing it out there for the public to make an opinion - which again just makes me feel that someone in the office is trying to "get" or "embarrass" the Pats organization.... i still believe Goodell had no idea this sting was going on...
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, everyone was asking for proof, an investigation. That takes time to put together. If they nipped it in the bud and just suspended Brady he would have been suspended for the Super Bowl. Only Pats/Brady haters would have wanted to see that.

The Brady "was generally aware" is a CYA. You and I both know that Brady was aware, but without him saying "I was aware" he would sue the shit out of them for defamation.
 
Smokedawg said:
Brady and Belichick need to be suspended indefinitely.

The team needs to be docked multiple draft picks.

All tainted Super Bowls need to be stripped (read: all of them that they have "won").

Goodell needs to "Donald Sterling" Kraft.

This brazen, organization wide, systematic disregard for any and all rules from the Patriots is truly disgusting. It is a slap in the face to every other organization in the NFL. The Patriots have time and time again demonstrated that they feel the rules do not apply to them. The hammer needs to be dropped.

(But don't worry Pats homers and cheating sympathizers; Goodell doesn't have the balls to do anything substantial...regardless of how many times these cheating fucks get caught cheating)

((annnnd for everyone saying oh it doesn't even make a difference, no big deal - isn't that worse?? Cheating when there's no reason to cheat?? Just because you have this inate urge to cheat all the time??))
Click to expand...

Please tell me you don't really believe this.
 
takeit said:
If I recall correctly, everyone was asking for proof, an investigation. That takes time to put together. If they nipped it in the bud and just suspended Brady he would have been suspended for the Super Bowl. Only Pats/Brady haters would have wanted to see that.

The Brady "was generally aware" is a CYA. You and I both know that Brady was aware, but without him saying "I was aware" he would sue the shit out of them for defamation.
Click to expand...

Nip it before it became public,,, well before the afc game.,,if goodell knows about it, a memo gets sent out he doesn't want this bad publicity...
 
Filed to ESPN: Tom Brady suspended four games, Pats lose 1st round pick in 2016 and a 4th in 2017, and team fined $1 million, per source:
 
CASH said:
Supposed Inside info..
4-6 game suspension for coach and loss of 2nd and or 3rd round pick... Suspension would start next year..

info leaked last night to judge response


lets see how accurate my "friend" is...
Click to expand...
posted 1.21.15

he was on the right path....
 
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