Tom Brady---Forever a Fraud?

Alex said:
so you hate America
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Can't root for the Yanks under any circumstances. It's not like they were playing the Russians in hockey or something. Just some expansion team in the desert.
 
Alex said:
anyone else feel like this is the most important moment in nfl history?
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In the history of civilization; this is the Kennedy assassination of our generation, and the chart Smokedawg posted is the modern day Zapruder film.


"Back, and to the left...Back, and to the left"
 
ArizonaKid said:
In the history of civilization; this is the Kennedy assassination of our generation, and the chart Smokedawg posted is the modern day Zapruder film.


"Back, and to the left...Back, and to the left"
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Is the Zapruder film as easy to poke holes in, or is it lacking as much info as that chart is? Again, no one has answered how the Pats seemingly don't fumble in any weather but only deflate balls in the cold at home.

One should probably look into how many more plays they ran compared to the others close to them in fumbles, as well as how many plays they ran ending in an out of bounds after a few yards, or simply a quick hitter where the guy basically goes down after catching it.

I know, I know...why really look at the numbers when we can just cherry pick a stat without any other info and just call it a smoking gun....damn those analytical people who want to use logic and reason to come to a conclusion....that's no fun.
 
I hope you realize that my post was satirical in nature in response to Alex's post. Secondly I don't know where you get that the Patriots only do this at home and in cold weather conditions, the Colts suspected it during their regular season game at Indy in a dome. The games played in wet/snow/cold weather conditions simply demonstrates the difference as the Patriots don't turn over the ball at historical rates while their opponents fumble at worse than normal rates.

That chart speaks for itself, the data points for the Patriots vs the rest of the league is well beyond a statistical outlier. Logic would be acknowledging what that chart demonstrates which is the Patriots have been doing this for years.

Did you even look at the chart for Christ's Sake ? It explicitly has fumbles per play on there for crying out loud.
 
Last edited:
Curious if you haters think taking PED's or intentionally trying to injure a player is cheating??
both of these being proven?? Not "leaked" info that hasn't been proven..

or or lying about the salary cap so they could keep and pay their better players....
 
CASH said:
Curious if you haters think taking PED's or intentionally trying to injure a player is cheating??
both of these being proven?? Not "leaked" info that hasn't been proven..

or or lying about the salary cap so they could keep and pay their better players....
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Personally I think taking PED's and lying about the salary cap is cheating. I think restructuring contracts to beat the salary cap is not cheating, but it's BS. I think if someone intentionally injures another player they should be suspended as long as the other dude is out or a min 6 games. There's NO room for this in the game. I still believe Bertuzzi should have never been allowed to play hockey again.

Yes, my team is guilty of some of the above and they should face the consequences.
 
Appreciate the honest response..

I remember the bertuzzi incident like it was yesterday
subject for another thread.. Believe the suit is still going on...
 
Do any of you guys, or take, think the quarterbacks have had a preference on the feel of the football before?
 
Tip you can go right ahead and walk with the shepherd but my eyes are wide open on this one
 
takeit said:
Personally I think taking PED's and lying about the salary cap is cheating. I think restructuring contracts to beat the salary cap is not cheating, but it's BS. I think if someone intentionally injures another player they should be suspended as long as the other dude is out or a min 6 games. There's NO room for this in the game. I still believe Bertuzzi should have never been allowed to play hockey again.

Yes, my team is guilty of some of the above and they should face the consequences.
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agree with all of that

Steve Moore shouldn't be throwing flying elbows at the reigning league MVP either
 
guaranteeed said:
agree with all of that

Steve Moore shouldn't be throwing flying elbows at the reigning league MVP either
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Anyone. I don't care if you're a scrub or the reigning MVP. But he didn't deserve to have his career ended because of it... If that was the case, there would be no more hockey.
 
ArizonaKid said:
I hope you realize that my post was satirical in nature in response to Alex's post. Secondly I don't know where you get that the Patriots only do this at home and in cold weather conditions, the Colts suspected it during their regular season game at Indy in a dome. The games played in wet/snow/cold weather conditions simply demonstrates the difference as the Patriots don't turn over the ball at historical rates while their opponents fumble at worse than normal rates.

That chart speaks for itself, the data points for the Patriots vs the rest of the league is well beyond a statistical outlier. Logic would be acknowledging what that chart demonstrates which is the Patriots have been doing this for years.

Did you even look at the chart for Christ's Sake ? It explicitly has fumbles per play on there for crying out loud.
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I only keep bringing that up because Teed said they only deflate the balls in cold weather home games. Then tried to play both sides of the fence by latching onto the fumbling issue....which is a moot point using his logic because he can't explain why they don't fumble in any weather, not just in cold weather home games (which is where he said is the only time he thinks they deflate the balls).

I realize it has fumbles per play...some teams run quick hitters that run out of bounds or get tackled quickly...so yes, they're running more plays, but they may be running many more low risk fumbling plays in those plays (if that makes sense). I didn't even say that's what we're talking about here, but it IS possible, and simply looking at ONE stat doesn't do anything other than let people make assumptions. Can they break down cold and warm weather fumbles to see if they fumble more or less in the cold?
 
ArizonaKid said:
I hope you realize that my post was satirical in nature in response to Alex's post. Secondly I don't know where you get that the Patriots only do this at home and in cold weather conditions, the Colts suspected it during their regular season game at Indy in a dome. The games played in wet/snow/cold weather conditions simply demonstrates the difference as the Patriots don't turn over the ball at historical rates while their opponents fumble at worse than normal rates.

That chart speaks for itself, the data points for the Patriots vs the rest of the league is well beyond a statistical outlier. Logic would be acknowledging what that chart demonstrates which is the Patriots have been doing this for years.

Did you even look at the chart for Christ's Sake ? It explicitly has fumbles per play on there for crying out loud.
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I know they did, which is why I thought it was odd that no one on the defense grabbed any of the footballs in play that day to test them out. 11 of the 12 were apparently 2psi light, so the odds of them finding a deflated one was very high, and probably could have been done in the first series.

If we allow that the Pats did do this all the time, in any weather condition, then the stats showing how Brady's yds per pass go up in cold weather are now moot (the other chart that's been in this thread a few times). If he's using the deflated ball in the warm weather, and the cold weather, the deflation of balls isn't the explanation for his better numbers in the cold. It doesn't matter what other QBs numbers are at that point, we know Brady deflates the footballs in every weather, we only need to look at his numbers and see that the deflated footballs aren't the reason his cold weather #s are better than his "non cold" weather #s.
 
They're gonna talk about it for a few more days, nothing important will happen. I think Kraft might fine the NFL.
 
takeit said:
Personally I think taking PED's and lying about the salary cap is cheating. I think restructuring contracts to beat the salary cap is not cheating, but it's BS. I think if someone intentionally injures another player they should be suspended as long as the other dude is out or a min 6 games. There's NO room for this in the game. I still believe Bertuzzi should have never been allowed to play hockey again.

Yes, my team is guilty of some of the above and they should face the consequences.
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Restrucuring yes is bs but that is the way it is set up now I am talking about lying to the league about deferred payments to your 2 star player players and being 30 mill over the cap?
 
Neil deGrasse Tyson retracts his statement on deflategate and says his calcs were wrong
 
CASH said:
Restrucuring yes is bs but that is the way it is set up now I am talking about lying to the league about deferred payments to your 2 star player players and being 30 mill over the cap?
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You referring to the Bronco's (Elway and Davis) in the late 90's. I think it's BS and they deserved the penalties assessed. It stains the reputation of the team and opens them up to easily be considered "cheaters" when another situation arises since they have a history of breaking the rules to win.

I am a big Bronco's fan, but not a fangirl - I can admit they they are not perfect and they've done some shady shit. I HATE when they play dirty and don't make excuses for it.
 
gsro said:
Neil deGrasse Tyson retracts his statement on deflategate and says his calcs were wrong
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I think he's now saying for the balls to deflate like the Patriots' said, the balls would have had to have been inflated with air temp of 90 degrees (he previously said 125 degrees). How is this accomplished without it happening to the Colts as well?
 
takeit said:
You referring to the Bronco's (Elway and Davis) in the late 90's. I think it's BS and they deserved the penalties assessed. It stains the reputation of the team and opens them up to easily be considered "cheaters" when another situation arises since they have a history of breaking the rules to win.

I am a big Bronco's fan, but not a fangirl - I can admit they they are not perfect and they've done some shady shit. I HATE when they play dirty and don't make excuses for it.
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Believe niners during Montana years had similar violations
 
Takeit, it had to happen to all the balls that were on the field. If all the Dolts balls were still above 12.5 at halftime they obviously started at a higher pressure, perhaps 13.5 the upper limit. Pats balls were at 12.5 indoors before the game and by halftime their balls had lost few psi in the cold and were outside the legal range.
Sidenote to all this a buddy of mine called and said he saw the locker room attendant for the Pats driving a new porsche.
 
babyneedshoes said:
Takeit, it had to happen to all the balls that were on the field. If all the Dolts balls were still above 12.5 at halftime they obviously started at a higher pressure, perhaps 13.5 the upper limit. Pats balls were at 12.5 indoors before the game and by halftime their balls had lost few psi in the cold and were outside the legal range.
Sidenote to all this a buddy of mine called and said he saw the locker room attendant for the Pats driving a new porsche.
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bahaha
 
Well, the article is basically a referral to other websites that have already done the analysis critiques, so.......
 
I'm starting to warm up to the theory that the refs never stuck a gauge in the balls. Grabbed them one by one, gave em a squeeze and went back to their crossword puzzles. #12 has always liked his balls underinflated so that's the way they get prepared. The gatekeeper was asleep at the wheel. Happens all the time all over the league. There's not a player in the league that gives a fuck whether the ball is 13.5, 12.5 or 11.5. Why would the refs give a shit? Let the QB have the balls however they want them.
 
takeit said:
I think he's now saying for the balls to deflate like the Patriots' said, the balls would have had to have been inflated with air temp of 90 degrees (he previously said 125 degrees). How is this accomplished without it happening to the Colts as well?
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The tin foil hat wearing dudes would say that the Pats are finding a way to heat up the air they put into the balls before they inflate them. Since each team inflates their own footballs, unless the Colts were also using heated air, they wouldn't have the same effect.

It may be easy to heat the air you're inflating a football with, but I wouldn't know how they'd go about doing it. Anyone have any ideas as to how they could?
 
gsro said:
Neil deGrasse Tyson retracts his statement on deflategate and says his calcs were wrong
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And if his calcs were wrong, how in the world can anyone, under any circumstances, regardless of which team or 'scandal' we're talking about, take anything that's been "leaked" through the media or any other "analysis" that's been shared by the media as gospel? I'm not even sure how you can take it even halfway seriously, yet most people seem to want to indict the Pats already (and have some guys ineligible for the HOF, suspensions, loss of draft picks, etc, etc). Now a bunch of stats are 'back-fitted', so to speak, and is used as "proof" that the Pats are cheating, and have been for a decade plus.

I just love/hate that this is seemingly how it works these days with everything...people are so quick and ready to say someone is guilty (of anything too, nothing to do with just sports) with the only 'facts' they've looked at consist of things leaked by the media...the same media who's been wrong about many, many, many (there aren't enough manys) things in the past.

And I'm not, in any way at all, suggesting that what Nelly Tyson said somehow exonerates the Pats...it simply shows that something can 'come out' in the media (in this case, Neil's first response) and within hours it's a done deal for whomever that info was about. Regardless of whether or not that info is accurate, they're already guilty, and in this case, it was a "nail in the coffin." I know that's how it is and has been for a while, but when the fuck did that actually happen? Where there's a seeming majority of the population who is literally out for blood and ready to convict, accuse, just plain hate people over something/anything so quickly, before looking at ALL of the info and making sure that info is accurate? It's like the late 1600s Salem, Massachusetts everywhere you turn. Yet those same people would call the people of Salem "crazy and maniacal," probably because those people were actually burning other people....same mentality though isn't it?
 
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