Since there is no "What have we learned" thread, let's talk about Kaep

P-Unit

P-Unit

Beacon of Calmness
I've been on record as saying Kaep is decidely average at best as an NFL QB. He has his moments, but those are mostly using his feet. Yesterday was another prime example of the 9ers playing against a defense with a pulse, and Kaep's running ability was nowhere to be found. The Panthers essentially made him a pocket passer and shut that offense down. 46 net yards passing? I don't care if you have HS WR's, 46 yards passing is a joke. At home, no less.

I think he has potential, but he's not in my top 10 QB's and I'd go so far as to say he's in the bottom half of QB's in this league. I'm not trying to compare him to Rogers or Brees or Brady because that's not even a fair comparison. Guys like Cam are similar but I'd put Cam in my top 10 (more for potential than current production although he's been terriffic this year). Cam knows how to use his skills based on the flow of the game and Kaep seems lost IMO. It's even more troubling considering what a "great QB coach" Harbaugh is rumored to be. Well, Harbaugh couldn't utilize Alex Smith to get the 9ers over the hump and has had only flashing moments of great play out of Kaep, yet Smith is been very proficient for KC and look where they are at in the first year running the WCO under Reid.

What do others think?
 
think you're being too hard on him. he needs weapons. with crabtree hes been great, and it can't be discounted that his best wr is the corpse of anquan boldin. I think hes a top 12 qb for sure. a lot of his lack of produciton has been the teams decision to be run-first after crabtrees injury
 
He has the worst receiving corp in the NFL. Very few QB's could look good with the squad the Niners are sending out there right now; especially when Vernon Davis is knocked out early.
 
He was at his best when they were doing the read option last year. For some reason, they have gone away from that. Not sure why, maybe Harbaugh is scared of him getting hurt. But yeah, he's been nothing special this year despite the good record. Frank Gore and the defense is why they're playing pretty good football this year.
 
I would argue the Chiefs targets are as bad or worse than SF's without Crabtree. Bowe=Boldin. That is 1 solid guy. They have Vernon at least.
 
Bowe has the ability to stretch the field. Boldin does not. Makes a huge difference. DB's can move up to the line, put more pressure on the QB, and remove the chance at a long completion.
 
I'd rather talk about how bad pryor is and how poorly eli has looked with no running game and bad offensive line.
 
TheHbomb said:
He has the worst receiving corp in the NFL. Very few QB's could look good with the squad the Niners are sending out there right now; especially when Vernon Davis is knocked out early.
Click to expand...

They are not the worst receiving corps in the NFL. There are a few teams I can think of with worse receivers. Buffalo, Jax, NYJ, possibly KC (but they do have Bowe), NE (before Gronk came back and it's still close now that he's back), Oak, Tenn.

To say that SF has the worst receivers is probably not true. No one is saying their receiving core in its current state is top 10, but they certainly aren't the worst. Kaep is and has been pretty overrated it seems. Teams figured out how to stop him and it's working like a charm right now. He came in last year after week 9 or 10 and lit the NFL on fire, you can't take that away from him, but he's either regressed or teams just figured out how to defend him.
 
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it's okay, Joe P. I fully expect you to have a "What Have We Learned" post up by 3 pm PST. I am off today so will try to comment but want you to get the ball rolling; otherwise I would feel like eating stuff from the dinner table out of turn. Gotta respect your superiors :)
 
agree p...i don't take either crapernick or the whiners seriously because every time the public gets high on him or the team, they show that they are not an elite squad. crapernick is flashy, energetic, and loud, and that's why i think people were so high on him--he makes people believe he's a world beater, when he's really just an average qb. every time they go against a solid d, their offense is stifled.
 
Just like RG III waits for either Garcon or Reed to get open, Kaep looks lost without Crabtree and Davis.
 
t's okay, Joe P. I fully expect you to have a "What Have We Learned" post up by 3 pm PST. I am off today so will try to comment but want you to get the ball rolling; otherwise I would feel like eating stuff from the dinner table out of turn. Gotta respect your superiors

All you, CKR. Start it up, I honestly saw more cards than football yesterday.

And my run of having KK cracked ended yesterday, which I know you were all worried about. But seriously, it wasn't cool. The curse, however, has been lifted. Onward and upward.
 
Kaepernick is fine and he will be fine. Every time they try and make him into something he isn't he looks horrible. He is at. His best when he has the run game humming and can hit play action shots. The run game got stopped and they have no WR to stretch the field, esp after Davis went down.
 
TheHbomb said:
He has the worst receiving corp in the NFL. Very few QB's could look good with the squad the Niners are sending out there right now; especially when Vernon Davis is knocked out early.
Click to expand...

Cam has the worse receiving core in the NFL. I'll take Vernon Davis over a 50 year old Steve Smith any day. Then I would still take Boldin over anybody else you want to put in front of him ... Olson, LaFell, Ginn jr, etc... . Also, I'd take Gore over any RB that the Panthers have. Kap is overrated big time. Everybody loves a "come out of no where" guy, but that time has come and gone.
 
Kap has been exposed this year. Cam has gotten better, on and off the field. Watching both play, Cam is clearly a better thrower. Starting a team today, would you really take Kap over Cam? No thanks. To each his own.
 
I don't think anyone here is disputing the fact that Cam is having a better season than Kap. I thought the question was who would we rather have going forward, to me I'd still tater have kaepernick. I love all the "figured out" talk, like he is some sort of gimmick quarterback who can't throw. How many complete games of his have you watched? It's funny now because he is having a down year and hitting some growing pains. Most people make decisions based on the moment, so I understand the shortsightedness. Personally, I'm not buying a franchise QB who brushes teammates of his back so he can do his signature end zone celebration web his team is down 37-7 in the fourth. Huge red flag....among other things. You can have him.
 
TheHbomb said:
I don't think anyone here is disputing the fact that Cam is having a better season than Kap. I thought the question was who would we rather have going forward, to me I'd still tater have kaepernick. I love all the "figured out" talk, like he is some sort of gimmick quarterback who can't throw. How many complete games of his have you watched? It's funny now because he is having a down year and hitting some growing pains. Most people make decisions based on the moment, so I understand the shortsightedness. Personally, I'm not buying a franchise QB who brushes teammates of his back so he can do his signature end zone celebration web his team is down 37-7 in the fourth. Huge red flag....among other things. You can have him.
Click to expand...

Watched plenty of both guys' games. Cam has grown from that behavior. Watching interviews, hearing his teammates talk, he has grown, that is fact.

Kap is still young, for sure, and he still can get a lot better. But a tell tale to me about success as a NFL quarterback is throwing when under pressure/blitzed. And Cam owns Kap in this department. Can Kap fix that? For sure. But right now, I'll take Cam in a heartbeat over Kap.
 
HBomb, you are not very objective. You are clearly a Cam hater. Cam and the Panthers have all gotten better and it is largely due to NOT running zone reads. Cam on third down is either the best or 2nd best QB in the league and on his intermediate throws he is 3rd best in the league. Wouldn't you say those are pretty good places to be as a QB? 3rd down and the intermediate throws? Never mind all the individual records he set in his first two seasons in the league. Time for you to step down.
 
Carolina Guy said:
HBomb, you are not very objective. You are clearly a Cam hater. Cam and the Panthers have all gotten better and it is largely due to NOT running zone reads. Cam on third down is either the best or 2nd best QB in the league and on his intermediate throws he is 3rd best in the league. Wouldn't you say those are pretty good places to be as a QB? 3rd down and the intermediate throws? Never mind all the individual records he set in his first two seasons in the league. Time for you to step down.
Click to expand...

The way I read HBomb's comments, I'd say he's more of a Kaep homer than a Cam hater. Cam is just the comparison that's being drawn because they are similar players. I understand he wants to back his guy in this discussion, but I just don't think Kaep is a very good QB. Personnel aside, he's not making good decisions and he lacks accuracy. I mean, he took what, 7 sacks, against Carolina a couple weeks ago? If he's as mobile as advertised, then he should be getting rid of the ball. The have the best OL in the league, so it's not a matter of not having time to throw. It's more about him holding on to the ball too long and his lack of ability in throwing guys open.
 
Carolina Guy said:
HBomb, you are not very objective. You are clearly a Cam hater. Cam and the Panthers have all gotten better and it is largely due to NOT running zone reads. Cam on third down is either the best or 2nd best QB in the league and on his intermediate throws he is 3rd best in the league. Wouldn't you say those are pretty good places to be as a QB? 3rd down and the intermediate throws? Time for you to step down.
Click to expand...

Curious as to who is in your top 5 on 3rd down?

Never mind all the individual records he set in his first two seasons in the league.
How did this translate into team wins?
 
deuce's wild said:
Curious as to who is in your top 5 on 3rd down?

Never mind all the individual records he set in his first two seasons in the league.
How did this translate into team wins?
Click to expand...

I think CG is actually using stats, it's not *his* Top 5 list on 3rd down. Here are the top 5 in the NFL on 3rd down:

[TABLE="class: shsTable shsBorderTable"]
<tbody>[TR="class: shsRow0Row"]
[TD="class: shsTotD"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Ryan Fitzpatrick[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Ten[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNumD"]51.3 ( 20/39 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: shsRow1Row"]
[TD="class: shsTotD"]2[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Peyton Manning[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Den[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNumD"]49.0 ( 47/96 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: shsRow0Row"]
[TD="class: shsTotD"]3[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Cam Newton[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Car[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNumD"]46.9 ( 30/64 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: shsRow1Row"]
[TD="class: shsTotD"]4[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Philip Rivers[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]SD[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNumD"]46.7 ( 42/90 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: shsRow0Row"]
[TD="class: shsTotD"]5[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Drew Brees[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]NO[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNumD"]45.7 ( 48/105 )[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]


Kaep is not in the Top 20 in this category, so I couldn't tell you where he is (the list only showed Top 20).
 
P-Unit said:
The way I read HBomb's comments, I'd say he's more of a Kaep homer than a Cam hater. Cam is just the comparison that's being drawn because they are similar players. I understand he wants to back his guy in this discussion, but I just don't think Kaep is a very good QB. Personnel aside, he's not making good decisions and he lacks accuracy. I mean, he took what, 7 sacks, against Carolina a couple weeks ago? If he's as mobile as advertised, then he should be getting rid of the ball. The have the best OL in the league, so it's not a matter of not having time to throw. It's more about him holding on to the ball too long and his lack of ability in throwing guys open.
Click to expand...

Very good points.
 
deuce's wild said:
Curious as to who is in your top 5 on 3rd down?

Never mind all the individual records he set in his first two seasons in the league.
How did this translate into team wins?
Click to expand...

Those weren't my numbers as Lareux stated. They were stats I heard on our local radio station before last weeks game at San Fran.

And his personal stats count, bro. What they show is that it is not the QB who is the problem. And we all know who the first person is to get the blame on a losing team ... The QB.
 
Lareux said:
I think CG is actually using stats, it's not *his* Top 5 list on 3rd down. Here are the top 5 in the NFL on 3rd down:

[TABLE="class: shsTable shsBorderTable"]
<tbody>[TR="class: shsRow0Row"]
[TD="class: shsTotD"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Ryan Fitzpatrick[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Ten[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNumD"]51.3 ( 20/39 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: shsRow1Row"]
[TD="class: shsTotD"]2[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Peyton Manning[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Den[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNumD"]49.0 ( 47/96 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: shsRow0Row"]
[TD="class: shsTotD"]3[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Cam Newton[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Car[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNumD"]46.9 ( 30/64 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: shsRow1Row"]
[TD="class: shsTotD"]4[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Philip Rivers[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]SD[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNumD"]46.7 ( 42/90 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: shsRow0Row"]
[TD="class: shsTotD"]5[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]Drew Brees[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNamD"]NO[/TD]
[TD="class: shsNumD"]45.7 ( 48/105 )[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]


Kaep is not in the Top 20 in this category, so I couldn't tell you where he is (the list only showed Top 20).
Click to expand...

a stat that has nothing to do with turnovers and has Fitzpatrick at the top speaks for itself.......I personally hope both of these guys get it together I think with cap it will be up to his coaches to adjust now and put him in spots to succeed and with cam it will be about maturity
 
cam-invest.gif
 
Perfect time to buy Kaepernick stock is when everybody is selling. He just completed his first 16 NFL games a couple of weeks ago and in that time he has beaten Brady, Rodgers 3x, and Brees. His team also won an NFC championship on the road and was knocking on the door of a huge Super Bowl comeback win.

I like Cam and I hope he does well but I wouldn't trade CK for him.
 
guaranteeed said:
lets just say if Cam was white, religious, and republican, he'd be a lot more popular with people

if he was judged on talent alone he would have a full bandwagon
Click to expand...

Cam's problems aren't the color of his skin, but his perception of his brief stay in Gainsville, Fla and the whole Miss St/bag man issue at Auburn after he completely dominated college football in 2010.
 
Carolina Guy said:
HBomb, you are not very objective. You are clearly a Cam hater. Cam and the Panthers have all gotten better and it is largely due to NOT running zone reads. Cam on third down is either the best or 2nd best QB in the league and on his intermediate throws he is 3rd best in the league. Wouldn't you say those are pretty good places to be as a QB? 3rd down and the intermediate throws? Never mind all the individual records he set in his first two seasons in the league. Time for you to step down.
Click to expand...

Says "Carolina Guy." Now that's funny.
 
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