MLB Offseason Thread

obviously a win for Texas because they can just move Profar to 2b and have all star production at 1B

seems like it would help detroit positionally as well, move Miggy to 1st, helps D

move Castellanos back to 3rd
 
oh shit all ready done

<header style="width: 640px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;">JON HEYMANBaseball Insider

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[h=1]Fielder for Kinsler blockbuster is agreed to[/h]<time class="storyDate" pubdate="" datetime="2013-11-21T00:44:23Z" style="display: inline-block; margin-bottom: 10px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: italic; color: rgb(68, 68, 68);">November 20, 2013 7:44 pm ET</time>
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</header>The Rangers and Tigers have agreed on a blockbuster deal to send Prince Fielder to Texas forIan Kinsler, pending CBSSports.com has learned.
There could be another player involved in the trade as potential well, but that hasn't been confirmed.
Physicals would be needed if the trade id completed.
The Rangers made a play for Fielder when he was a free agent a couple years ago before the Tigers signed him for $214 million over nine years.
Trading Kinsler would open second base for Jurickson Profar. Texas has been looking for added punch to its lineup.
The Tigers had been floating Max Scherzer as a trade possibility. But a deal of Fielder could possibly free up extra cash to try to sign Scherzer long-term.
Fielder has a limited no-trade clause, but it isn't known if it includes Texas.
 
  • Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan<small class="time" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); position: relative; float: right; margin-top: 1px;">11m</small>
    Prince Fielder is 29 years old. If he were a free agent this year, he may demand as much as Robinson Cano. Getting him for 7/138 is a steal.
    Expand
    ​
  • Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan<small class="time" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); position: relative; float: right; margin-top: 1px;">13m</small>
    Final deal: Detroit trades Prince Fielder + $30M to Texas for Ian Kinsler. TEX gets Prince for 7/$138M, DET gets Kinsler for 4/$62M + $30M.

    Expand
    ​
    • Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan<small class="time" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); position: relative; float: right; margin-top: 1px;">15m</small>
      Source: Detroit will be sending $30 million to Texas in the Prince Fielder deal.




      ​
 
just allows them to spend more $$ on guys whom have not lead them to the promise land. dont see how this improves detroit, texas probably.

still no pen, no LF. i know, now they have more $$, as if Mr I was ever going to run out anyway.

trade makes sense for numerous reasons, but still, are the tigers improved? never been a huge fan of kinsler, seems like his career has peaked a bit.

at least they have more speed and flexibility on the base paths.

now sign a real effin closer like nathan and get some left handed pitching. and more speed, perhaps in left
 
Clears up space to sign Mad Max to a long-term deal, allows a top prospect to play his natural position while improving the defense as a whole and a swap for a proven postseason producer? If you're a believer in the old baseball adage "offense wins games, pitching and defense wins championships", this trade is right up your alley.


Prince in the postseason with the Brewers and Tigers (4 yrs, 8 series): .194 BA (28-144), .287 OBP, 12 R, 5 2B, 5 HR, 11 RBI, .620 OPS, 14-32 BB-SO ratio

Kinsler in the postseason with the Rangers (3 yrs, 7 series): .311 BA (38-122), .422 OBP, 18 R, 7 2B, 4 HR, 3B, 20 RBI, 6 SB, .905 OPS, 23-16 BB-SO ratio
 
Grind_4_Mine said:
Clears up space to sign Mad Max to a long-term deal, allows a top prospect to play his natural position while improving the defense as a whole and a swap for a proven postseason producer? If you're a believer in the old baseball adage "offense wins games, pitching and defense wins championships", this trade is right up your alley.


Prince in the postseason with the Brewers and Tigers (4 yrs, 8 series): .194 BA (28-144), .287 OBP, 12 R, 5 2B, 5 HR, 11 RBI, .620 OPS, 14-32 BB-SO ratio

Kinsler in the postseason with the Rangers (3 yrs, 7 series): .311 BA (38-122), .422 OBP, 18 R, 7 2B, 4 HR, 3B, 20 RBI, 6 SB, .905 OPS, 23-16 BB-SO ratio
Click to expand...


:shake:
 
No doubt the Tigers wanted him gone after both his play and comments in the postseason. I know he had a rough few months on the personal front this year but you still have to perform. As many on this site pointed out a few years ago that contract was gonna bite us in ass when he became unproductive in the latter years.

Guess Tori has been in Nathans ear about coming. I would like to see that and now they have more flexibility to make another move or two. We shall see what happens.
 
12 posts about offseason moves and no buzz in here yet about the Tribe nearing a deal with David Murphy?
 
Like the deal the more I review it, just need some pen help and a bit more speed

this should make the tigers relevant for years to come instead of being dreadful in 5, but again, with no cap in mlb, Mr I $$ means nothing to me, he can spend away
 
I think Fielder will mash in Texas (who doesn't?), but the deal's worth it for Detroit just to get out from under the contract.
 
gsro said:
no claim to fame for signing murphy? hehe
Click to expand...

Oh, of course I'm excited, see post 13. What'd he hit last year, .200? He, Raburn and Stubby form a formidable three-headed monster in RF. Money Ball, I guess. Bigger problem will be replacing Ubaldo and Kazmir. Little market problems, but they had nice years.
 
gsro said:
really like that signing of Hudson for SF too
Click to expand...

Francona was supposed to be talking him into Cleveland. Couple days later he's in San Fran. Good signing for the Giants, but if I'm the Tribe I pass for the price.
 
I hope we don't use the money to sign Scherzer. We would be putting ourselves in the same boat we just got out of
 
orangemonk said:
I hope we don't use the money to sign Scherzer. We would be putting ourselves in the same boat we just got out of
Click to expand...

ya, I think the move is to trade him or JV for a package

won't have to rebuild but more of a reload so to speak, starters weren't the issue in the playoffs
 
I think it's a good deal for both teams. The Rangers fix a chronic hole in 1B. Tigers get rid of some salary. Both teams get to elevate top prospects.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing any of the SP be traded. smyly being wasted in the pen. porcello probably the most likely -- still young and cheap with some upside. wonder if they'll try to flip him for a corner outfielder or if they try to address that via FA.
 
detroit187 said:
now sign a real effin closer like nathan and get some left handed pitching. and more speed, perhaps in left
Click to expand...

Spending money on a closer seems like a waste of money. I realize Detroit hasn't had the best luck with finding someone to close games out, but closers are a big waste of money.
 
My team's closers could blow game 7 of the WS for 50 years straight and I still wouldn't spend on a closer. Of course, if it were my team, it wouldn't have a "closer".
 
Lareux said:
Spending money on a closer seems like a waste of money. I realize Detroit hasn't had the best luck with finding someone to close games out, but closers are a big waste of money.
Click to expand...


normally would agree with you, but possibly cost them two world series, so there is a huge sense of urgency here to overpay for one. they have nobody on the current roster who has proven to do it in big games, rondon probably only one with potential.
 
and again without a salary cap and without it being me who is paying for one, why would i give a shit if its only for a couple years.
 
detroit187 said:
normally would agree with you, but possibly cost them two world series, so there is a huge sense of urgency here to overpay for one. they have nobody on the current roster who has proven to do it in big games, rondon probably only one with potential.
Click to expand...

detroit187 said:
and again without a salary cap and without it being me who is paying for one, why would i give a shit if its only for a couple years.
Click to expand...

Because closers are not worth the money. Any baseball analytics guy will tell you that...there's been more than enough study on it in the past decade or so.

They didn't lose a game 7 in the WS because of a closer did they? I understand your feeling that their closers have sucked and maybe cost them games, but it didn't really cost them a world series. The manager's decision to continually go back to the well with a sub-par closer would be more of a reason than the closer himself. Closers just are not worth the money.

The Tigers have clearly just run into some bad luck with getting a guy to close out games, but it hasn't or doesn't cost them nearly as much as you're making it out to have cost them.
 
orangemonk said:
I wouldn't mind seeing any of the SP be traded. smyly being wasted in the pen. porcello probably the most likely -- still young and cheap with some upside. wonder if they'll try to flip him for a corner outfielder or if they try to address that via FA.
Click to expand...

safe to assume castanellos makes the team and plays third and miggy goes to first?
 
gsro said:
safe to assume castanellos makes the team and plays third and miggy goes to first?
Click to expand...

Yeah I would be VERY surprised if this wasn't the case. Defense goes from the worst in MLB at the start of last year to average or maybe even slightly above this year.
 
so if the tigers had a closer they would not have won game 2 in boston (i was there)?? when benoit gave up a grand slam to papi after leyland used 3 different relievers. I dont buy it that a guy like kimbrel, mariano or even someone just decent would have given up that lead. and true we dont know what would have happened, but up 2-0 on the road coming home for 3 with all the momentum probably makes them at the worst runners up again.

i really dont get why in mlb there is much discussion about overpaying certain players, especially if its only for a year or two when you have a real shot at winning it all and can lock down a huge position of need. there is no cap in baseball, this isnt the nfl where you have to cut everyone else.

i do get not paying a closer big $$ because most people will tell you they grow on trees and they are hit or miss from year to year, but a guy like nathan is worth the price with the current need and state of the tigers bullpen, without a doubt.
 
JumpOnBoard said:
7.5 million for Chris Young? What a ridiculous market we have right now..
Click to expand...


one guy i thought the tigers may snatch for cheap. but again my point exactly, u give chris effin young 7.5 mill, joe nathan aint worth 10 mill for a contending team without a closer lareux.
 
the biggest thing that stats won't show about the effectiveness of a closer is how much multiple blown saves deflates a team. I think it was a couple years ago that the Diamondbacks had something like 11 blown saves-in APRIL! That means the team was effectively in position to win every one of those games yet lost a majority of them, and the rest of the season spirals out of control because it's got to be tough to play your asses off for 7+ innings every night just to expect the inevitable. A very promising season, even a championship season, can unravel if the team begins to expect late failure.
 
Because closer isn't a position. Pitcher is a position, and just because Detroit's been unlucky in the 9th inning doesn't change the reality that closers are a dime a dozen. What'd Mujica have, 40 saves? You want him, think he's a FA. Chris Perez is one of the most successful closers in Indians history, 100+ years, and he's terrible, had maybe one good year. Just get good pitchers and tell 'em when to pitch. Fuck the designated roles. Relief pitching is the one area in baseball where there's no need to break the bank to get an edge.
 
kjohnson109 said:
the biggest thing that stats won't show about the effectiveness of a closer is how much multiple blown saves deflates a team. I think it was a couple years ago that the Diamondbacks had something like 11 blown saves-in APRIL! That means the team was effectively in position to win every one of those games yet lost a majority of them, and the rest of the season spirals out of control because it's got to be tough to play your asses off for 7+ innings every night just to expect the inevitable. A very promising season, even a championship season, can unravel if the team begins to expect late failure.
Click to expand...

That's garbage too. If you let the same guy blow 11 games in a month, you deserve to suck. And if your bullpen collectively blows games left and right, well, you have a shitty bullpen. Get better, good luck next season.
 
Last 3 teams to win the World Series finished the season with a different closer than they started with. That should tell you enough about closers.
 
[h=1]MLB W-L When Leading[/h] [TABLE="class: alt-rows"]
<thead> [TR]
[TH]Year[/TH]
[TH]After Seven Innings[/TH]
[TH]After Eight Innings[/TH]
[/TR]
</thead> <tbody> [TR="class: last"]
[TD]2013 (entering Thursday)[/TD]
[TD].897[/TD]
[TD].945[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD].917[/TD]
[TD].955[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD].904[/TD]
[TD].955[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]2000[/TD]
[TD].900[/TD]
[TD].950[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]1995[/TD]
[TD].898[/TD]
[TD].947[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]1990[/TD]
[TD].914[/TD]
[TD].955[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]1985[/TD]
[TD].906[/TD]
[TD].948[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]1980[/TD]
[TD].897[/TD]
[TD].946[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]1975[/TD]
[TD].903[/TD]
[TD].949[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]1970[/TD]
[TD].895[/TD]
[TD].944[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]1965[/TD]
[TD].901[/TD]
[TD].950[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]1960[/TD]
[TD].899[/TD]
[TD].947[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
 
kjohnson109 said:
closers win games, analytics guys bitch about not getting laid

get a closer
Click to expand...

No they don't. Just on the surface of them being a "closer" they don't "win" games, they save them, or finish them off.

What does getting laid have anything to do with analytics in baseball? Pretty much every analytics guy in baseball right now says that closers are a waste of money, and are extremely over-valued as far as what they do for a baseball team. You don't believe in analytics? That's odd, you seem like the type of guy who would be all over something like that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
tipyerbartender said:
That's garbage too. If you let the same guy blow 11 games in a month, you deserve to suck. And if your bullpen collectively blows games left and right, well, you have a shitty bullpen. Get better, good luck next season.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
I could care less about "saves" and more about blown saves. far too many guys, in any sport, aren't equipped in the head to close out games. don't you think it's odd that some guys can thrive in 7th or 8th inning roles but for some reason can't quite locate those same pitches when put into the 9th inning role?

the closer is no less a role than the starter
 
It's because the sample size of high leverage innings that a relief pitcher gives us each year is very small. Rodney has both struggled and thrived as both a closer and a setup guy. does he have the head for it?
 
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