Give me your Top 5 QBs in the NFL

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Not giving him all the credit but his stats were about as good as anyone in the league when he played for San Fran last year. And KC was way better than last year's record but this is a historic turnaround. He certainly deserves some credit.

And he doesn't make my top 5 so I am a hypocrite I guess... but dayum.

Outside of completion percentage, his stats were nowhere near as good as anyone in the league. He threw for 1700 yards and 13 TDs in 10 games. He's a great game manager at the QB position, there is no arguing that. He won't win a game with his arm though (and he's not asked to, I realize that), so it's almost impossible to put him on any "top QB" list.
 
I am going by memory, and I think I've been presented Romo's December record when challenged about this before, but the guy HAS to have a lot of last-important-game-of-the-season picks and miscues, and last drive picks in all months. That can't be a myth.

As for Peyton, he's a noodle-armed geezer. I'll take Stafford to win my next game with the same supporting cast.
 
Alex Smith: Game Manager or Top-Flight NFL Quarterback?


Most people have already formed an opinion of Kansas City Chiefs quarterback Alex Smith and what he is and what he isn't. Either he's a game manager and they don't like him, or he's a top-flight NFL quarterback and they do like him.

Some may not care about Smith as long as the Chiefs keep winning. They are 9-0 after all, so clearly the Chiefs have found a repeatable formula for winning with Smith at quarterback.
While a 9-0 record is great, the season is not over. The Chiefs are in a fight for home-field advantage now and have a tougher second-half schedule. The Chiefs are hoping to win their first playoff games in the free-agency era, so seeding could be very important.

A top-flight quarterback gives any team a much larger margin for error in all the other facets of the game. Mistakes can be overcome with a top-flight quarterback that can't be with only a game manager under center.



Smith is an interesting case study because of how the teams he has been on have performed over the last few years. Top-flight quarterbacks tend to win a lot of games, and game managers tend to hold their team back at least a little bit, so Smith is certainly unique.
It's also important for fans to be realistic about Smith. When the Chiefs lose a game, chances are Smith will get way too much blame for the loss, just like he's getting way too much credit for the wins. Smith is performing at such a level that it would be easy to make him the scapegoat for losses.
Think about winning games like making cookies. A game manager can follow a recipe, but a top-flight quarterback can create greatness with the ingredients he has on hand.
The Chiefs offense is the flour, but it's just your basic flour. The defense is the sugar, and it's the best available.
So far, Smith has been making fantastic cookies, but take away some of the required sugar and the cookies might not turn out so well. Maybe running back Jamaal Charles is the butter, but one day Smith has to use a substitute because he churned the butter too many times.
Change any of the key ingredients, and the Chiefs might not be as good. A top-flight quarterback is more like an Iron Chef; give him any ingredients, and he'll make something tasty.

Defining Top Flight vs. Game Manager
It's probably fair to say that a top-flight quarterback is in the top 30 percent of all quarterbacks. With 32 teams in the league, that means a total of 10 meet the criteria. The top 15 percent would be the best five quarterbacks, or elite quarterbacks.
A game manager may not be statistically in the top 10 in every category, but he would avoid turnovers and let other players carry the team. A great receiver, great running back, great defense or some combination of all three can carry a team instead of the quarterback.


Alex Smith is no Peyton Manning.

In the case of the Chiefs, they certainly have a running back and a defense that have carried the team so far. Smith has turned the ball over just four times in nine games, so he already fits the description of a game manager.
The question is if Smith also fits the description of a top-flight quarterback. With few exceptions, every top-flight quarterback is a game manager, but not every game manager is a top-flight quarterback.
About the only way to do this on a large scale is to use statistics. Until the offseason, no one has enough time to do a thorough film evaluation of every quarterback. Smith probably wouldn't fare well when evaluating the film anyway.
Ron Jaworski of ESPN ranked Smith 20th among NFL quarterbacks based on film study in July. Matt Miller ranked him 18th among QBs in the B/R NFL 1000 this past February.
Statistics also rarely lie, especially when you present a myriad that cover a broad range of the different elements of quarterback play and not just one or two that support a single point.
For advanced NFL statistics, instead of selecting one, we'll look at multiple stats and come to a consensus, specifically ESPN's QBR, Football Outsiders' DVOA (subscription), Pro Football Focus' grades (subscription), WPA from advancednflstats.com and Pro Football Reference's ANY/A.
StatisticFO DVOAESPN QBRANY/APFF GradeWPA
Value-3.8%46.85.2-6.6.31
NFL Rank1722232422

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</tbody>
FootballOutsiders.com, ESPN.com, Pro-Football-Reference.com, ProFootballFocus.com, advancednflstats.com

Smith tops out at 17th in the league in Football Outsiders' DVOA and bottoms out in Pro Football Focus' grades at 24th among quarterbacks who have played 50 percent of the time. Smith's QBR and ANY/A are 22nd and 23rd in the league, respectively.
There is very little variance between all the advanced statistics, and none of them put Smith near the top 10. The lack of variance could also suggest just how consistent Smith has been, which is one of the classic signs of a game manager.
The average rank for Smith was 22nd among the advanced statistics, which puts him nowhere close to a top-flight quarterback. There is no way to twist these statistics to fit a narrative that Smith is some type of top-flight quarterback that isn't getting the recognition for leading his team to a perfect record.

A Traditional Approach
Maybe you don't buy all the advanced statistics and prefer to default to the traditional passing statistics. You don't know what "DVOA" or "WPA" mean, and they don't matter to you. That's fine, because the traditional statistics can still give us a pretty good picture.
Just keep in mind that where applicable, rate stats have to be used to compensate for the fact that some players have played fewer games.
Smith's best attribute is his ability to be conservative and not turn the ball over. He is third in the league in interception percentage. The only starter to play in every game who has been better is Andrew Luck.
StatisticINT %TD%TD:INT RatioSack %-
Value1.32.92.37.6-
NFL Rank3281223-
StatisticCompletion %Yards/GameYards/Att.Yards/Comp.QB Rating
Value59.7213.26.110.281.4
NFL Rank2424313321

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</tbody>
pro-football-reference.com

Another traditional approach is to use touchdown-to-interception ratio. Smith ranks 12th in this statistic, but that is obviously dragged down by his lack of touchdown passes. If we stopped there, Smith looks great, but he is 21st or worst in every other statistic from quarterback rating to yards per completion.
You could argue that the high-volume passing offense Smith plays in skews these rate statistics, but that wouldn't be the case. Smith is 20th in the league in pass attempts per game.
The Chiefs also rank ninth in offensive drives per game with 12.4 as of Monday, according to Pro Football Reference, so we know Smith isn't a product of a pass-happy offense that just isn't getting many opportunities. The run-pass balance on offense doesn't appear to be a factor in Smith's statistical performance at all.
Peter Aiken/Getty Images

Dexter McCluster leads the team with four drops.

When considering Smith is 31st in yards per attempt and rarely throws anything deep, it's odd that his completion percentage is so low. The only excuse for this would be his receivers running the wrong routes and dropping the football, and we can rule out one of them.
According to Pro Football Focus (subscription), the Chiefs have dropped 24 of Smith's passes—the fourth-highest number in the league. Even with all of those drops, though, Smith is 17th in Pro Football Focus' accuracy percentage, which adjusts for drops, spikes, throwaways, batted passes and any time the quarterback is hit while throwing.
Just like the advanced metrics, Smith's average NFL ranking from all the traditional statistics is 22nd in the league. It's pretty apparent that Smith is actually on the low end of average among NFL quarterbacks.

A Top-Flight Team
What Smith has proven is that you don't need a top-flight quarterback to win in the NFL. It helps, but one isn't required. The better the team is, the better the quarterback will look.
This helps explain why so many teams are willing to draft quarterbacks like Christian Ponder and Andy Dalton in the first or second round. It also helps explain why the Chiefs were willing to trade two second-round picks for Smith.


Alex Smith isn't the only game manager in the NFL, as Andy Dalton has the Cincinnati Bengals playing well.

While fans would probably prefer to avoid quarterback purgatory—when the team gets stuck with an average quarterback and is never in position to get a top-flight quarterback—coaches and general managers are paid to win games.
We learned last season that a quarterback and a team can get hot in the playoffs and win the Super Bowl. It doesn't matter if the quarterback is a top-flight guy or a game manager if that happens; Joe Flacco was probably neither.

What kind of quarterback is Alex Smith?

<form action="/polls/create" method="post" id="poll-vote-form"> <label> <input name="vote" value="choice0" type="radio"> Top Flight </label> <label> <input name="vote" value="choice1" type="radio"> Game Manager </label> <label> <input name="vote" value="choice2" type="radio"> None of the above </label> Submit Vote vote to see results </form>


If the Chiefs fall short of their goals, consider that Smith's contract is up at the end of 2014. The Chiefs will have a decision to make if there isn't a top-flight option available or a game manager of equal or greater value.
Finding a top-flight quarterback is a priority for every team that doesn't have one. The Chiefs don't have one, so they will be like 20 or more other teams in the NFL looking for one in the next year.
Smith is probably the best game manager a team could ever hope to have. A quarterback like Smith buys the organization time to find the right quarterback and not end up with just more of the same; that's exactly what he did for the San Francisco 49ers.
Being 9-0 with a chance to make some noise in the playoffs is a major bonus and a credit to the coaching and to the entire team. Let's not pretend Smith has come in and put the organization on his back like Luck.
If the Chiefs lose a game, stumble down the stretch or fail to win a playoff game, fans should take it easy on Smith. It probably won't be due to Smith's play and more likely because the Chiefs' winning recipe has been disrupted in another way.
 
I am going by memory, and I think I've been presented Romo's December record when challenged about this before, but the guy HAS to have a lot of last-important-game-of-the-season picks and miscues, and last drive picks in all months. That can't be a myth.

As for Peyton, he's a noodle-armed geezer. I'll take Stafford to win my next game with the same supporting cast.

He doesn't though, it is a myth. I'm pretty sure he's either the highest rated (or 2nd highest) active QB in the 4th quarter.
 
If you buy into perception, the NFL season opener features one of the league’s elite clutch quarterbacks and one of its worst choke artists.

In Eli Manning’s case, perception is reality.

In Tony Romo’s case, perception is wrong.

There is no denying that Manning has earned his reputation as one of the NFL’s clutch kings. He’s had 25 game-winning drives in his career, including five in the playoffs and a pair to claim Super Bowl rings. According to research done by ColdHardFootballFacts.com, Tim Tebow, Tom Brady and Matt Ryan are the only active quarterbacks with better winning percentages than Manning (.510) in potential game-winning drive situations.

But the popular belief that Romo usually fades in the fourth quarter is just foolish.

Fact: Romo has the highest fourth-quarter passer rating among active quarterbacks. And it’s not even close. His 102.1 rating is more than five points higher than the second man on the list, Green Bay’s Aaron Rodgers.

Romo has had some high-profile fourth-quarter failures – last season’s opener at MetLife Stadium stands out – but you can’t look at the numbers and call that a trend. He has completed 63.4 percent of his passes for 5,819 yards (8.7 per attempt) and 44 touchdowns with 18 interceptions in fourth quarters during his career.

Those numbers compare favorably with those put up by Manning, even though Manning set an NFL record with 15 fourth-quarter touchdown passes last season. Manning’s career fourth-quarter passer rating: 84.6.

Of course, the Giants will feel great if the game comes down to a drive engineered by Eli.

But the Cowboys will have plenty of confidence if Romo has the ball in his hands at winning time, too.
 
He doesn't though, it is a myth. I'm pretty sure he's either the highest rated (or 2nd highest) active QB in the 4th quarter.

What, do we just remember it better? 4thQ QB rating doesn't always tell the story. That pick might be against two touchdowns and 0 incompletions, but we all saw what lost the games or prevented the wins.
 
Romo will always be a hell of a fantasy QB, doesn't penalize extra for a bad last pass of the game.
 
What, do we just remember it better? 4thQ QB rating doesn't always tell the story. That pick might be against two touchdowns and 0 incompletions, but we all saw what lost the games or prevented the wins.

No, I'd say you (or we) don't remember it better at all. I'll take the actual stats over Tip's memory any day of the week. No offense Tip, but it's just not true that Romo chokes games away. In fact, it's the opposite...he is a great 4th quarter QB.
 
It's difficult to mythologize anything these days. He's thrown a lot of late picks in one-score games.
 
A QB's job - get the ball into the end zone and limit your mistakes in trying to do so.

QBs with the most TD passes this year while also having a 2.5 to 1 or better TD/TO ratio:

P Manning 29-10
Brees 21-7
Romo 20-7
Rivers 17-7
Rodgers 15-4

Those five pretty much match up what I see week to week as the guys playing the QB position the best all season. You'll get games like Brady and Foles had last week that will stand out, but for the full season I'm comfortable with those five.
 
romo also plays for the most publicly scrutinized team, no?

his mistakes are magnified because of this, no? and therefore leaving a lasting impression on your minds distorting his true ability... yes

#MattRyanBlows
 
romo also plays for the most publicly scrutinized team, no?

his mistakes are magnified because of this, no?

#MattRyanBlows

Yes, that is very true...

This includes one playoff game (2007 Giants) and two prime-time games (2011 Jets and 2012 Redskins). Four more of the games (2007 Eagles, 2008 Steelers, 2010 Vikings, 2012 Vikings) were the nationally-featured late-afternoon game.
 
Romo's late picks and poor late game play is a complete myth. Dude gets it done in the 4th quarter, look up the stats for yourself. I'm not sure why he gets such a bad rap, but it's completely not true.

Agreed, he has tha highest career 4th quarter qb rating ever. Manning never got this much hate before he won his 1st championship
 
Agreed, he has tha highest career 4th quarter qb rating ever. Manning never got this much hate before he won his 1st championship

Romo was an undrafted QB ffs, and he's criticized like he was a #1 overall pick. It's mind boggling really how so many people view him as a choker, or a horrible QB.
 
A QB's job - get the ball into the end zone and limit your mistakes in trying to do so.

QBs with the most TD passes this year while also having a 2.5 to 1 or better TD/TO ratio:

P Manning 29-10
Brees 21-7
Romo 20-7
Rivers 17-7
Rodgers 15-4

Those five pretty much match up what I see week to week as the guys playing the QB position the best all season. You'll get games like Brady and Foles had last week that will stand out, but for the full season I'm comfortable with those five.

Admittedly, I'll introduce a little mythology here now, but in a game today would you actually trust Romo or Rivers over say Brady if you're down 4 with a couple minutes left? I think I go Brady, Ben, Luck over both those guys. And what's a better measurement of a QB than last drive win-or-lose performance in a league where every game is close?
 
Admittedly, I'll introduce a little mythology here now, but in a game today would you actually trust Romo or Rivers over say Brady if you're down 4 with a couple minutes left? I think I go Brady, Ben, Luck over both those guys. And what's a better measurement of a QB than last drive win-or-lose performance in a league where every game is close?

There are a few guys (maybe a few, Brady for sure) I would take over Romo at the end of a game, but that's not the point at all. The point is that Romo is NOT a choke-artist, and the thought that he is is basically a complete myth.

And no, Rivers actually is much worse in the 4th quarter than Romo. The article that I got some of those quotes from was actually comparing those 2 guys...and Rivers was horribly worse...


  • Rivers has gone an unfathomable 2-19 (.095) at game-winning drive opportunities since losing in the 2009 playoffs to the Jets.
  • In those 19 losses, Rivers has turned the ball over 16 times (11 interceptions and five lost fumbles) in the fourth quarter or overtime with a 0-8 point deficit.
  • In his last 27 games (close or not), Rivers has 13 turnovers in clutch situations.
 
He's thrown 8 of them in his entire career. And he's engineered 21 game winning drives. Facts.

8 game losing picks seems high for a guy who's played so few games as a starter, and 21 game wining drives seems low for a guy who's played so many.
 
What's the criteria for that anyway ... Lead changes? He's had to have had more than 8 big picks in his career, that's nonsense.
 
8 game losing picks seems high for a guy who's played so few games as a starter, and 21 game wining drives seems low for a guy who's played so many.

lol, which is it Tip, he's played so few or so many? Or are you just being funny?

This is Romo's 8th season as a starting NFL QB. So, he's thrown 1 pick in that situation per year while winning the game 3 times per year. Keep using your "memory" while the rest of us use facts and stats. You just don't like Romo, that's fine, but don't say he's a choke-artist because it's not true. I'm not even a Romo fan either, just for the record.
 
What's the criteria for that anyway ... Lead changes? He's had to have had more than 8 big picks in his career, that's nonsense.

The criteria was exactly what you said it should be....late in 4th quarters in a 1 score game. You gave the criteria, I gave the stats. It's not nonsense, it's the truth.
 
lol, which is it Tip, he's played so few or so many? Or are you just being funny?

This is Romo's 8th season as a starting NFL QB. So, he's thrown 1 pick in that situation per year while winning the game 3 times per year. Keep using your "memory" while the rest of us use facts and stats. You just don't like Romo, that's fine, but don't say he's a choke-artist because it's not true. I'm not even a Romo fan either, just for the record.

Well, it was kind of funny, but the words were correctly placed. He should have fewer big picks and more game-winning drives. I think Luck has like 10 already, it's a cheap stat. NFL games tend to go down to the last 5 minutes.
 
Well, it was kind of funny, but the words were correctly placed. He should have fewer big picks and more game-winning drives. I think Luck has like 10 already, it's a cheap stat. NFL games tend to go down to the last 5 minutes.

Tom Brady has 26 in his career. Drew Brees has 20. Eli has 24, Big Ben has 22. Peyton has 38.

You're just hating on Tony Romo based on your "memory" and not much else.

There's also this...(19 was up until this season)

Unlike some quarterbacks on the list, Romo has not padded his overall record with game-winning drives when it was just tied. A whopping 18 of his 19 clutch wins (94.7 percent) have included a comeback. That’s the highest rate for anyone on the list with at least five wins. We also know he’s been let down by teammates in several losses.
 
This reminds me of Colin Cowherd arguing that A-Rod is better in the playoffs than Jeter. Sometimes the moments count x10 in sports. Romo piles up stats, has very few big moments. He could use a better defense, etc., but guy's directly responsible for the most high profile losses in his career. And we're still waiting for the high profile win.
 
Tom Brady has 26 in his career. Drew Brees has 20. Eli has 24, Big Ben has 22. Peyton has 38.

You're just hating on Tony Romo based on your "memory" and not much else.

There's also this...(19 was up until this season)

Unlike some quarterbacks on the list, Romo has not padded his overall record with game-winning drives when it was just tied. A whopping 18 of his 19 clutch wins (94.7 percent) have included a comeback. That’s the highest rate for anyone on the list with at least five wins. We also know he’s been let down by teammates in several losses.

Now that's interesting. Now I love Romo.
 
This reminds me of Colin Cowherd arguing that A-Rod is better in the playoffs than Jeter. Sometimes the moments count x10 in sports. Romo piles up stats, has very few big moments. He could use a better defense, etc., but guy's directly responsible for the most high profile losses in his career. And we're still waiting for the high profile win.

Unlike some quarterbacks on the list, Romo has not padded his overall record with game-winning drives when it was just tied. A whopping 18 of his 19 clutch wins (94.7 percent) have included a comeback. That’s the highest rate for anyone on the list with at least five wins. We also know he’s been let down by teammates in several losses.

So he just has to do it in a playoff game for you? He muffed an XP hold, and because of that (and pretty much that alone) he's a choke artist to the uninformed.

In your analogy, you're Colin Cowherd right?
 
Well, he's also choked in regular season game (games?) which were de facto playoff games to get into the playoffs. Stats don't do as well as memory in that case.
 
Well, he's also choked in regular season game (games?) which were de facto playoff games to get into the playoffs. Stats don't do as well as memory in that case.

It's only happened 9 times in his entire career (I was wrong earlier saying it was 8 INTs). You think most of them were in "de facto" playoff games? Well, here are the games for you to look at...


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[TD="colspan: 8"]
Tony Romo's 10 Career Turnovers in the Clutch (Losses)
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Date
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Opp.
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Result
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Down
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Time
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[TD="width: 7%"]
Situ.
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[TD="width: 8%"]
LOS
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[TD="width: 39%"]
Play
[/TD]

[TD="width: 12%"]
12/31/2006​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
DET​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
L 39-31​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
5​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
4:19​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
1st-10​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
DAL 19​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 39%"]
Fumbles (sacked); DET recv. at DAL 13​
[/TD]

[TD="width: 12%"]
12/16/2007​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
PHI​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
L 10-6​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
4​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
2:57​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
2nd-18​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
DAL 37​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 39%"]
INT w/2:50 left (B.Dawkins)​
[/TD]

[TD="width: 12%"]
1/13/2008​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
NYG​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
L 21-17​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
4​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
0:16​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
4th-11​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
NYG 23​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 39%"]
INT w/0:09 left (R.McQuarters)​
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[TD="width: 12%"]
12/7/2008​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
at PIT​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
L 20-13​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"][/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
1:51​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
2nd-8​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
DAL 17​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 39%"]
Pick six w/1:40 left (D.Townsend)​
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[TD="width: 12%"]
10/10/2010​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
TEN​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
L 34-27​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"][/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
7:40​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
2nd-6​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
DAL 16​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 39%"]
INT returned to DAL 1 (A.Verner)​
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[TD="width: 8%"]
7​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
0:47​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
1st-10​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
DAL 23​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 39%"]
INT w/0:38 left (S.Tulloch)​
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[TD="width: 12%"]
10/17/2010​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
at MIN​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
L 24-21​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"][/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
7:41​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
3rd-2​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
DAL 22​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 39%"]
INT w/7:33 left (E.Henderson)​
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[TD="width: 12%"]
9/11/2011​
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at NYJ​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
L 27-24​
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[TD="width: 8%"][/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
0:59​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
1st-10​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
DAL 41​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 39%"]
INT w/0:49 left (D.Revis)​
[/TD]

[TD="width: 12%"]
10/28/2012​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
NYG​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
L 29-24​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
5​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
1:14​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
4th-1​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
NYG 19​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 39%"]
INT w/1:03 left (S.Brown)​
[/TD]

[TD="width: 12%"]
12/30/2012​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
at WAS​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
L 28-18​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
3​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
3:06​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
1st-10​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
DAL 29​
[/TD]
[TD="width: 39%"]
INT w/3:00 left (R.Jackson)​
[/TD]

</tbody>
 
5 of those 10 turnovers happened in December or January. Were the Cowboys going to make the playoffs in each of those cases? I'd have to go back and look for sure, but I doubt all 5 of those games cost the Cowboys a playoff spot.
 
On the Colin Cowherd reference, he used to defend A-Rod on playoff BA and slugging, before guy became indefensible. (Actually, he was defending his public reputation vs. Papi last week, so guy has an A-Rod thing.). Anyway, I thought it ridiculous. Like A-Rod, Romo has never passed the clutch sniff test for me as the games get more important.
 
In 2006, they made the playoffs anyway.

In 2007, they made the playoffs anyway.

In 2008 (2 of his TOs happened in late season), they were 9-7 and missed out. He may have cost them the playoffs that year.

In 2012, they were 8-8.
 
On the Colin Cowherd reference, he used to defend A-Rod on playoff BA and slugging, before guy became indefensible. (Actually, he was defending his public reputation vs. Papi last week, so guy has an A-Rod thing.). Anyway, I thought it ridiculous. Like A-Rod, Romo has never passed the clutch sniff test for me as the games get more important.

But you have no proof of this. I just broke down all 5 of his late season, 4th quarter one score situation turnovers...you called them "de facto" playoff games. He may have cost his team the playoffs in 2008. That's it.
 
I'm only a little bit of a Cowboy hater, nothing like the Yankees. I just don't think Romo can win me a Super Bowl. I think in 3 big games in a row, even after a good season, he's going to blow it and go Favre on me. Just the gut feeling that has to be included in analysis. His picks have been big.
 
There's also this, which isn't necessarily limited to the 4th quarter, so it's not really that relevant in this discussion...
We know Romo isn’t a caretaker. He has thrown for 300 yards a total of 40 times and has 48 games with a passer rating over 100.0 (minimum 15 attempts). His 7.94 yards per attempt is the seventh highest in NFL history.
Romo has seven straight seasons with a passer rating of at least 90.0 (minimum 200 attempts). Only Steve Young (1991-98) and Peyton Manning (2003-10) have ever done that. Romo’s 95.6 passer rating is fifth all time.

In the one season Romo had a top 10 defense (2009), he won a playoff game. That’s probably not a coincidence.

He’s historically productive, efficient, wins more than he loses and he has rare skills to buy time in the pocket and make big plays.
 
I'm only a little bit of a Cowboy hater, nothing like the Yankees. I just don't think Romo can win me a Super Bowl. I think in 3 big games in a row, even after a good season, he's going to blow it and go Favre in me. Just the gut feeling that has to be included in analysis. His picks have been big.

But they haven't been, and this thread has to have just proved that to you. If you still feel that way after all of the facts just thrown at you, I have nothing more to say really, other than you're just a hater for no good reason. It's one thing to be a hater, but to just ignore the truth and facts in order to keep hating on someone makes no sense. We aren't 12 years old Tip, it's just sports.
 
I think he makes bad choices late. So did Favre.

But the facts say otherwise. You've brought up 3 or 4 different criticisms now, each of them rebuked by stats and facts...you just keep trying to go down the list. It'd be much better if you just said you hate the Cowboys, and Romo, and we can move on. Your perception of him is based solely on your hatred for the Cowboys and not much else.
 
OK. I've happened to watch his season-torpedoing and team-deflating picks, so I don't trust him to win me a big game. Satisfactory? I can retain my keen eye (as far as I know), and you can retain Flacco's HOF numbers. Fair enough?
 
Flacco? Romo, I mean. Flacco's a different set of problems.
 
I also feel we are not fully realizing/appreciating how difficult it is to win a football championship... and how important the ENTIRE team is to win
 
Am I on an island here? At least someone has to agree that Romo flops at the worst possible times, and it's not easily detectable in a box score?
 
i'm just laughing at the concept that you can't use the eye test to develop an opinion on someone

carry on
 
I also feel we are not fully realizing/appreciating how difficult it is to win a football championship... and how important the ENTIRE team is to win

Last 15 years or so, I think you need a decent, relatively healthy team, and an above-average QB. Stars need to align.
 
No you are clearly not alone. Apparently Lareux's incredible research of facts is not enough to change people's perception
 
Now that's interesting. Now I love Romo.
How can you not?

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i'm just laughing at the concept that you can't use the eye test to develop an opinion on someone

carry on

Oh, you certainly can develop an opinion on someone with an eye test, and I don't think anyone has said anything to the contrary. That doesn't mean the opinion is correct. When there are so many facts and stats that say the complete opposite of your "eye test opinion" is true (which is the case here with Romo), it's kind of hard to rely on that eye test, isn't it?
 
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