****Draft lottery, trade rumors, Kevin Love- Draft In game******

kjohnson109 said:
This is where I'm pretty sold on the Wolves not having much leverage

Love's gone, and that in and of itself reduces their leverage. I would personally like to see Minnesota be an entertaining team. They aren't winning anything anytime soon, so make them interesting. The Chicago deal would do that, although I'm not overly convinced Chicago made the McDermott trade on draft day to get Love.
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Being a contrarian is fun I'm sure.
 
braves said:
Minny going get decent return for love. This isn't going be kwame brown for gasol type shit
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Don't feel too sorry for Memphis, they got Marc Gasol in this deal.

It turned out to be...

Pau Gasol
Devin Ebanks (a career D-League Player) 43rd pick/Memphis 2010 2nd Round

For

Marc Gasol rights
and filler

Kwame Brown
Javaris Crittendon
Aaron Mckie
Donte Green 28th pick/Lakers 2008 First Round
Greivis Vasquez 28th pick/Lakers 2010 First Round

Getting rid of Pau Gasol also allowed flexibility for Memphis to trade for Z-Bo, who along with Marc Gasol, helped lead Memphis to the playoffs and playoff wins while Lakers had final piece to go to 3 NBA Finals and pickup 2 NBA Titles.
 
It seems like most of the national guys say that Love to Cavs in a Wiggy deal is as good as done in 30 days, while the local guys aren't saying that. My prediction is that the Cavs don't deal Wiggins. Not sure what that means for Love, but that's my prediction.
 
tipyerbartender said:
It seems like most of the national guys say that Love to Cavs in a Wiggy deal is as good as done in 30 days, while the local guys aren't saying that. My prediction is that the Cavs don't deal Wiggins. Not sure what that means for Love, but that's my prediction.
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It's a no brainer in my mind parting with Wiggins for Love. Love is a guy who can lead the league reb, shoot a high percentage from all over the floor, great passer.
A month ago Wiggins was going to be the 3rd pick in the draft if embiid does not get hurt.
Upside shmupside. Love is a proven legit player.
 
Yer probably right. I'm probably greedy. I'm cool with it either way. I'm especially cool with both those guys. Waiters is expendable and Bennett blows.

The other thing I think is the Cavs are winning the east, immediately, whether they do the deal or not.
 
An angle I don't think anyone's projecting much yet is LeBron's urgency, I mean on the court. I think we got the "last best" part of his career here. Three years tops. Love is not necessary. Cavs already got the right guys.
 
tipyerbartender said:
An angle I don't think anyone's projecting much yet is LeBron's urgency, I mean on the court. I think we got the "last best" part of his career here. Three years tops. Love is not necessary. Cavs already got the right guys.
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I dont think they have the right guys right now.
Adding Love would get u there
 
would you say this potential 3 of LBJ, Irving and Love better than the Heat 3?
Also how does Love work into Blatt's triangle? I mean his numbers in Minny could be jaded considering he is first choice on O.
 
Toronto_Mike said:
would you say this potential 3 of LBJ, Irving and Love better than the Heat 3?
Also how does Love work into Blatt's triangle? I mean his numbers in Minny could be jaded considering he is first choice on O.
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Love fits Blatt's offense perfectly, a big man that can pass and knock down the 3...match made in heaven. Think Love shoots the 3 too much though...he shouldn't be in the top 5 for 3 pt attempts.
 
cudder said:
Being a contrarian is fun I'm sure.
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Reading this again sounds like I'm taking a shot at kj.. I'm not at all I love kj.

Just to to make that clear.


i want wiggins in minny but I have no confidence in that team/ front office
 
Blatt can't stand two types of players:
Anyone that doesn't play defense
Big guys who not athletic and don't have post game.

Macvan couldn't fit his system. Caner Medley as well.
Both proven Euroleague players...

He likes blue color players that will leave everything on the floor.
 
@ChrisHern3: Cavs get Love and Noel. We send Waiters to Philly. The Wolves get Bennett, Thad Young, picks and the 3 Jazz players cavs acquired in trade.
Shared via TweetCaster

This would be nice for Cleveland!!
 
^

why?

I ask because i think they should do it. Let's say for discussion Lebron has 4/5 great years left. With Love you know exactly what you are getting with him - he is only 25.

With Wiggins, etc, all you have is potential, the questions I would have - when will that potential be realized (no one knows)? Can you wait? (he is only 19). What happens if he doesn't reach his potential ceiling? (expert speak).

for those of you who will say Love doesn't play defense. Ray allen nor Paul Pierce didn't play a lick of defense until KG came on-board and Tibs put in a team defense strategy. Varejao is a big piece of this team/defense and the new coach will make sure there is team defense.. (my .02)
 
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you hit the spot there CM, Andy is a big part of Cavs rotation.
A healthy Andy is going to get you a shit ton of boards and hard nose D, with a stretch 4 that Love potentially is D could have a shit load of O Rebounds and looks inside too. Plus with word that LBJ could post up more, the tactics of this team is just priceless.

I would love for Wiggins to go to Minny so he can realize how shit the team is and then leave for Raptors when he's a FA :)
 
TheCashMan said:
^

why?

I ask because i think they should do it. Let's say for discussion Lebron has 4/5 great years left. With Love you know exactly what you are getting with him - he is only 25.

With Wiggins, etc, all you have is potential, the questions I would have - when will that potential be realized (no one knows)? Can you wait? (he is only 19). What happens if he doesn't reach his potential ceiling? (expert speak).

for those of you who will say Love doesn't play defense. Ray allen nor Paul Pierce didn't play a lick of defense until KG came on-board and Tibs put in a team defense strategy. Varejao is a big piece of this team/defense and the new coach will make sure there is team defense.. (my .02)
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Im not Love's biggest fan. He and David Lee are the biggest stat padders Ive seen in a long ass time. Every time I see those 2 play, I see Ricky Davis trying to cheap that triple double.

AV is a real good defender, but he is far from a rim protector. He's a great guy to have if you have a strong weakside help defender to pair with him, however Love is more on par with Amare and Lee as far as defending goes. Miami masked Bosh (still a better defender than Love) with 4 + help/perimeter defenders on the court. Rarely did the Heat have the blow bys to leave Bosh on an island. Cavs on the other hand will be loaded with 3 below average defenders out there with AV and Bron.

The Cavs will still be the early favourites on paper, but I see these guys closer to the Nets big 3 than the Celtics or Heat. Just too many holes defensively unless fielding a fantasy basketball team.
 
Toronto_Mike said:
so is it done yet?

I read:

Cavs: Love
TWolves: Wiggins, Thaddeus
Sixers: Bennett
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Not a Bennett fan, so I hope Sixers also get a 1st round pick out of this. We'd probably also be taking back the salaries of Barea and Luc Richard, both of which contracts expire after this season. I believe there is some sort of salary "floor" that the Sixers must be at. Thad was making about 9mil this season, so Sixers probably can't just let him go without taking back some expiring contracts.

I like Thad, but he'd be a better role player for a good team. I always thought he'd fit well in the Spurs system. To me, he's a 4th option or 6th man. He has a player option for next season, which he will likely exercise. As a FA, he'll probably command a 5yr/60mil contract. In today's NBA, you can't pay those kind of salaries to "good" players. You need a few superstars surrounded by cheap vets and young guys.
 
Record haul for the Wolves. No team has ever paid this much for a disgruntled star in the modern era.

Props to the Cavs for bidding against themselves.
 
Yeah I wouldn't do this either..

Was #1 or #2 in double doubles last 3 years minus one he was injured...Twolves are terrible, no offense P, marlo,,lord knows the Stons suck..

U want an All NBA guy or an All rookie guy?

The pick and pop with Lebron or the screens Love sets alone is worth the trade. Smh.
 
HUNT said:
Yeah I wouldn't do this either..

Was #1 or #2 in double doubles last 3 years minus one he was injured...Twolves are terrible, no offense P, marlo,,lord knows the Stons suck..

U want an All NBA guy or an All rookie guy?

The pick and pop with Lebron or the screens Love sets alone is worth the trade. Smh.
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I was sarcastic, hate the trade for the Cavs unless they can get in another starter calibre wing defender or a big shot blocker.

Everyone seems to ignore that fact that defense wins in the playoffs. So, unless the Cavs plan to ignore defense all together, they are playoff fodder.

Per NBA.com's SportVU data, Love ranked No. 74 of the 77 players who faced at least five shots per game at the rim when it came to field-goal percentage allowed in that area. He went up against 9.1 shots at the hoop during the average contest, and opponents connected 57.4 percent of the time.
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The Cavs already field one of the worst perimeter defenses in the league, now they add one of the worst post defenders in the league to back them up.

Wiggs gives the Cavs somethings they need; lockdown defense, perimeter defense and unselfishness. Cavs should have been able to get Love for Bennett and/or Waiters + picks. Part of me thinks it was Brons ego that wanted Wiggins gone at all cost hence the massive overpay, so Gilbert followed suit.
 
t-dot said:
I was sarcastic, hate the trade for the Cavs unless they can get in another starter calibre wing defender or a big shot blocker.

Everyone seems to ignore that fact that defense wins in the playoffs. So, unless the Cavs plan to ignore defense all together, they are playoff fodder.

The Cavs already field one of the worst perimeter defenses in the league, now they add one of the worst post defenders in the league to back them up.

Wiggs gives the Cavs somethings they need; lockdown defense, perimeter defense and unselfishness. Cavs should have been able to get Love for Bennett and/or Waiters + picks. Part of me thinks it was Brons ego that wanted Wiggins gone at all cost hence the massive overpay, so Gilbert followed suit.
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Good point about Lebron not wanting Wiggins on the roster. I could certainly see that.
 
t-dot said:
I was sarcastic, hate the trade for the Cavs unless they can get in another starter calibre wing defender or a big shot blocker.

Everyone seems to ignore that fact that defense wins in the playoffs. So, unless the Cavs plan to ignore defense all together, they are playoff fodder.



The Cavs already field one of the worst perimeter defenses in the league, now they add one of the worst post defenders in the league to back them up.

Wiggs gives the Cavs somethings they need; lockdown defense, perimeter defense and unselfishness. Cavs should have been able to get Love for Bennett and/or Waiters + picks. Part of me thinks it was Brons ego that wanted Wiggins gone at all cost hence the massive overpay, so Gilbert followed suit.
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Defense is a team concept. Let's see Love on a real team, with a shot to win something, before we say he's just useless on defense. He plays in Minnesota ffs, there have been other examples given in this thread about guys who didn't play defense, then went to a team where defense was accentuated, and they played fine defense.

Also, why are we acting as if the Cavs are giving up this defensive monster and replacing him with Love. They are giving away a rookie, who hasn't played ONE minute in the NBA....how does anyone know how he's going to look on the defensive end? I can't believe we're honestly debating if the Cavs should trade a rookie who hasn't played a minute (with unreal potential) and a 2nd year player who was a #1 overall pick last year and disappointed greatly (but does look better thus far this summer) for a legitimate NBA double-double guy who is also top 5 or 10 in the league...and he's only 25!!!

This is a no-brainer for the Cavs, it's the type of deal that if you don't make it as the GM, you deserve to be fired for incompetency.
 
t-dot said:
Wiggs gives the Cavs somethings they need; lockdown defense, perimeter defense and unselfishness. Cavs should have been able to get Love for Bennett and/or Waiters + picks. Part of me thinks it was Brons ego that wanted Wiggins gone at all cost hence the massive overpay, so Gilbert followed suit.
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I just don't see how a rookie gives them lockdown defense in anyone's eyes at this point. And "unselfishness?" Are you implying that Love is selfish in some way? He's one of the best passing big men in the game, is he not? Also, if we're going to say that he's all about his points and stats in Minnesota, it has to be mentioned that they have NO ONE else to score there, and most likely tell Love to shoot as much as possible.
 
Crazy for people to think you keep an unproven rook over an all star.
Love all day every day for Wiggins.
 
orangemonk said:
if in 2003 someone called and offered Antoine Walker for LeBron the Cavs should've taken it?
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Antoine Walker? Come on Monk.

I'm not sure there is a guy anyone could have offered for LeBron, but he's a once in a generation talent, everyone knew that from the onset. You're putting Wiggins into LeBron territory now?

Also, the Cavs, it could be argued, are Kevin Love (or a player like him) away from guaranteeing a spot in the Finals for the next few years....how can you pass that up for 'potential' that may possibly ensure you the finals a few more years down the road, when LeBron is also a few years older?
 
Lareux said:
Antoine Walker? Come on Monk.

I'm not sure there is a guy anyone could have offered for LeBron, but he's a once in a generation talent, everyone knew that from the onset. You're putting Wiggins into LeBron territory now?

Also, the Cavs, it could be argued, are Kevin Love (or a player like him) away from guaranteeing a spot in the Finals for the next few years....how can you pass that up for 'potential' that may possibly ensure you the finals a few more years down the road, when LeBron is also a few years older?
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just saying because he was a 3-time all star in 2003 for an unproven talent.
 
Lol at comparing Wiggins to LeBron.
Wiggins was not going to be #1 pick if not for embiid injury and then you had the 50/50 split on Wiggins or Parker.
 
orangemonk said:
just saying because he was a 3-time all star in 2003 for an unproven talent.
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Kevin Love is 1st team All NBA and top 5 (or 10) in the league. You could have, at the very least, picked someone a little bit closer to Love than Antoine Walker.

You also ignored my other question....are you putting Wiggins on par with LeBron?
 
Wiggins should always have been the #1 overall and I believe he could be a generational type talent, the kind you'd be crazy to move for Love. Obviously I'm in the minority.
 
I'm sorry, Love was on the 2nd team All-NBA....that's simply because he, as a forward, has Durant and James with him there.
 
dudleysdad said:
I don't get the dislike for Love.
Maybe it's b/c be is white
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You'd think he'd get more love because he's white, it's quite puzzling to me as well.

How much better than Love do you guys (who think it's a bad move) possibly think Wiggins can/will be? Love is top 5 in scoring (last 2 years), top 3 in rebounding (last 3 years), top 3 in PER (last 3 years), top 5 in win shares (last w years), shoots over 80% from the line, can hit the 3 ball, and passes tremendously...oh yeah, and he's only 25. You really think Wiggins is a no-brainer to be doing that w/i the next 3 or 4 years?
 
I've always liked Love, back to his high school days. Still not worth Wiggins imo. Debatable, sure. But no way I make that trade.
 
kjohnson109 said:
I've always liked Love, back to his high school days. Still not worth Wiggins imo. Debatable, sure. But no way I make that trade.
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Fair enough. You simply see Wiggins as a HOFer. Not saying you're wrong, but I have no idea how anyone can be sure of that with a guy who hasn't played a minute in the NBA as of yet.
 
Avg 12.5 reb
Avg 15 reb per game 3 yrs ago.

Ahhh he ok. Let's keep this unproven rook who can't shoot
 
Lareux said:
Defense is a team concept. Let's see Love on a real team, with a shot to win something, before we say he's just useless on defense. He plays in Minnesota ffs, there have been other examples given in this thread about guys who didn't play defense, then went to a team where defense was accentuated, and they played fine defense.

Also, why are we acting as if the Cavs are giving up this defensive monster and replacing him with Love. They are giving away a rookie, who hasn't played ONE minute in the NBA....how does anyone know how he's going to look on the defensive end? I can't believe we're honestly debating if the Cavs should trade a rookie who hasn't played a minute (with unreal potential) and a 2nd year player who was a #1 overall pick last year and disappointed greatly (but does look better thus far this summer) for a legitimate NBA double-double guy who is also top 5 or 10 in the league...and he's only 25!!!

This is a no-brainer for the Cavs, it's the type of deal that if you don't make it as the GM, you deserve to be fired for incompetency.
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So Love will only try on defense if he can win something?

Defense is a team concept, and the concept is to try to hide Love as much as possible. Ive seen enough film of Love not even bothering to put his hand up on a shot, yet use super human speed to turn around to chase that uncontested rebound off a missed free throw. The Wolves had 3 very good defenders on the court with him. He wont have that luxury with the cavs. Love will have to be the one to shift over when Dion and Irving get blown up play after play.

Wiggs doesnt have the offensive game you would like...yet, but his defensive abilities are off the charts. He has that Kobe mentality defensively where he wants the tough assignments and takes it personally + the physical attributes to match the drive.

Everyone loves the Love trade because of what he could do for them offensively, but people ignore the other side of the ball completely.

Btw, Love isnt the type of player that Blatt enjoys giving court time to while Wiggs is the type of player Blatt loves.

Make no mistake, this trade is all about Bron and making him happy.
 
Doesn't seem likely they would have gotten love with waiters/Bennett and draft picks. The gsw and bulls offers were arguably better and who knows what the celts would have done.
 
t-dot said:
So Love will only try on defense if he can win something?

Defense is a team concept, and the concept is to try to hide Love as much as possible. Ive seen enough film of Love not even bothering to put his hand up on a shot, yet use super human speed to turn around to chase that uncontested rebound off a missed free throw. The Wolves had 3 very good defenders on the court with him. He wont have that luxury with the cavs. Love will have to be the one to shift over when Dion and Irving get blown up play after play.

Wiggs doesnt have the offensive game you would like...yet, but his defensive abilities are off the charts. He has that Kobe mentality defensively where he wants the tough assignments and takes it personally + the physical attributes to match the drive.

Everyone loves the Love trade because of what he could do for them offensively, but people ignore the other side of the ball completely.

Btw, Love isnt the type of player that Blatt enjoys giving court time to while Wiggs is the type of player Blatt loves.

Make no mistake, this trade is all about Bron and making him happy.
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No, not at all, but it probably doesn't hurt when you're playing on a winning team. It's human nature.

Wiggins may very well have what you say...he still hasn't played one minute in the NBA and did he even really dominate on defense in college? You're making him out to be a sure fire HOFer....which again, he very well may be but he's an unknown ball of potential at this point.

If it's about Bron and making him happy, which it very well may be, it seems Bron is okay with Love and his defense. I would put more stock in LeBron's opinion than any one of ours on here...and it seems quite obvious what his opinion is.
 
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