Dead Heat Rules in Golf

[Timh]

I placed this bet at BM and can't figure out how they graded it. Spieth finished tied for 4th with Henley and Reed at -7 so they were places 4, 5, 6. Dead heat says take the stake add it to the payout and divide by the number of ties. Anyway, the math doesn't appear to work out. 50 +177/3 = 74 and 50 +177/2 = 111 as you could infer one of the players finished 4th and maybe the tie breaker was between 2 rather than 3 but the math doesn't work for that either. Just curious if anyone knows, not a big deal obviously with the payout amount? Of course Jordan bogied 18


STRAIGHT BETTNT - [80304] Jordan Spieth ML+354
Ticket # 608297610|04/09@07:29 PM
$50.00/$177.00
+$101.341
Risk: $50.00 - Win: $177.00
STRAIGHT BET

• Masters
• WINTNT - [80304] Jordan Spieth ML+354
• Score: Top 5 - US Masters 2023(80304) - Top 5 - US Masters 2023()
• Game Start :04/09/2023 06:11 PM

 

[KJ]

The way I understand it is as you said, 4/5/6 so you would win for 4th and 5th, then lose for 6th

I'm not sure about the if that's the same thing or not, 50 to win 177 means you win 2/3 of the 177 and retain 2/3 of your wager and you lose 1/3 of your wager

Not sure if that adds up or not

 

[KJ]

Does that mean they gave you back the full 50 and reduced the 1/3 that you lost from the payout? Back when I was sharper I could figure these out pretty easily but that was over a decade ago

 

[Timh]

The way I read the explanation of dead heat rules on their site was add the stake to the payout and divide by the number of ties to determine the payout. If I use 2 or 3 the numbers don't work out. I ended up receiving 57.25% of the payout and have no idea how that was calculated. Maybe I will just send them a message and see if they can explain it. More curious than anything, but my impression is even stronger now that I don't like messing with dead heat rules.

 

[KJ]

The way I read the explanation of dead heat rules on their site was add the stake to the payout and divide by the number of ties to determine the payout. If I use 2 or 3 the numbers don't work out. I ended up receiving 57.25% of the payout and have no idea how that was calculated. Maybe I will just send them a message and see if they can explain it. More curious than anything, but my impression is even stronger now that I don't like messing with dead heat rules.

It's got to have something to do with a top 5 wager but they tied for 4th I'd think

Reality is that no one tied for 5th so that has to change the numbers somehow

 

[Timh]

I just a lost an hour of my life lol....

Thank you Tim.
What do you mean by explain the payout? Do you want to know how much would you win?
I see that it is a win and the amount that you earned is $177.
Avril
- 4:59 PM
The bet was Top 5 Jordan Spieth. Spieth Henley and Reed finished 4,5,6 so some type of dead heat rule was applied. The payout was supposed to be 177 and I only received 101.

You
- 4:59 PM
In this case, In the event of a tie where 2 or more competitors are offered in one betting option, the dead heat rule applies. Please click HERE to see how the payout works.
Is there anything else I can help you with?
Avril
- 5:04 PM
I did read the rules before asking but the math doesn't work out properly. I.e. stake of 50 +payout of 177= 222. 222 is then divided by the number of ties in this case either 2 or 3. If you divide by 3 the number is 74 and if divide by 2 the number is 111 and I received 101. Somehting is not correct.

You
- 5:05 PM
Please allow me one moment to check with the team in charge.
Avril
- 5:05 PM
Thanks you

You
- 5:06 PM
Thank you for holding.
Sir, in this case you do not have to count the risk amount that is why the math is not giving you the number.
Avril
- 5:09 PM
101.34/177 is 57.25 percent of the payout at 50/177 the numbers do not make sense.

You
- 5:10 PM
I am double checking with the team in charge, one moment please.
Avril
- 5:11 PM
Ok thank you

You
- 5:11 PM
Ok thank you

You
- 5:11 PM
My apologies for the slight delay. I will be with you shortly.
Avril
- 5:14 PM
Ok

You
- 5:15 PM
I am still working on your request, I will be back as soon as possible.
Avril
- 5:17 PM
ok

You
- 5:18 PM
I appreciate your understanding, I'll be right back.
Thank you for your patience. Please allow me a few minutes and I will be back with you shortly.
Avril
- 5:22 PM
I am still checking with our team, thank you for your patience.
Avril
- 5:26 PM
ok

how much longer do you anticipate?

You
- 5:27 PM
You are now connected to Barto.


Info
- 5:28 PM
Hello Tim!
This is Barto, Avril had some technical issues but I will be helping you out.
She explained me all your situations so no worries, you do not have to explain all the situation again
Barto
- 5:28 PM
Ok

You
- 5:29 PM
My apologies for the delay, let me explain you the situation a bit so you can understand why it is taking this long
Barto
- 5:33 PM
could you em me an answer when you have it?

You
- 5:34 PM
This is the fornula we used to get the payout on a dead heat rule
the payout will be the total bet amount (stake plus win) divided by the number of players tied, minus the stake.

Stake: 50
Win amount: 177

And your competitor tied with 3 other competitors so the amount we are getting is actually lower
Barto
- 5:36 PM
I understand that and have written that above. Spieth tied with two others at 4,5,6 place. The bet was Top 5. If you take the stake 50 plus payout of 177 it totals 222. 222/3 =74 and 222/2 =111. My payout was 101.34 so something is not correct. I do not understand the math.

And evidently no one can explain the discrepancy?

I received 57.25% of the payout and the numbers make no sense.

Actually you could look at it and say they all tied for 4th and I should get the complete payout?

Its not a lot of money but it should be explained properly?

If you can't explain it I understand, but I have invested almost an hour trying to get an answer.

You
- 5:43 PM
I see he tied with Patrick Reed and Russell Henley. So
50 + 177 = 227
227/3 = 75
75 - 50 = 25.66

We are confirming if this was a glich or similar
The payout should had been 25.66
Currently we are working on it, but while I do that I am not sure if the maths are clear now
Barto
- 5:45 PM
Ok Barto I have to go now, I appreciate you trying but I am still confused

You
- 5:45 PM
You can always saved that formula, that is the official formula we used on this situations in addition of that you can click on this link
https://get.bookmaker.help/hc/en-us/articles/360031941652-Golf-dead-heat-rule

I would be really helpful for you
it*
Is there anything else I can assist you with today?
Barto
- 5:49 PM
If that’s all for now, remember you can always visit our ‘Help Center’ at: https://get.bookmaker.help/hc/en-us

Or feel free to contact us again via chat.

If you need anything in the future, do not hesitate to ask for me, my name is Barto

In order to improve our service, kindly fill out the following post-chat survey.

Thank you for choosing bookmaker.eu
5:53 PM
Barto
- 5:53 PM
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[Timh]

They have no fucking idea....I didn't get high enough up the food chain.

 

[KJ]

Good Lord that was a difficult read

 

[Timh]

I'm going to my favorite shoe cobbler for an answer....and will report back.

 

[reNew Orleans]

I think I read a while back BetMGM doesn’t do the dead heat rules and pays you out in ties but I could be wrong.

 

[B.A.R.]

Barto was worse than Mrs Cliff avril.

 

[chipnotized]

I think I read a while back BetMGM doesn’t do the dead heat rules and pays you out in ties but I could be wrong.

That's correct...MGM and Pinnacle are the only outs I know of that pay out full odds on ties.

 

[Inspekdah]

That's correct...MGM and Pinnacle are the only outs I know of that pay out full odds on ties.

Do they pay entire bet for FRL and ERL ties?

 

[chipnotized]

Do they pay entire bet for FRL and ERL ties?

Pinny does...unsure on MGM paying ties other than top 5/10, etc., but I assume FRL would be the same.

 

[chipnotized]

Pinny does...unsure on MGM paying ties other than top 5/10, etc., but I assume FRL would be the same.

Nope, I was wrong:

BetMGM is the only U.S. book we can find that pays all ties in full for finishing position bets like full tournament Top 5s or Top 20s, though in 2023 they offer worse prices on these markets than other sportsbooks. MGM does not pay out in full for first-round leader bets.

 

[Inspekdah]

Nope, I was wrong:

BetMGM is the only U.S. book we can find that pays all ties in full for finishing position bets like full tournament Top 5s or Top 20s, though in 2023 they offer worse prices on these markets than other sportsbooks. MGM does not pay out in full for first-round leader bets.

Damn Pinny the GOAT.

 

[Timh]

I'm going to my favorite shoe cobbler for an answer....and will report back.

The Cobbler has not answered me yet.

 

[Timh]

I got an answer that explains it. Treat it like 3 different bets, +354, so initial stake of 50/3=$16.67 pays $59.01 for 4th, $59.01 for 5th and 6th is a loser of 16.67 so net is $101.34.

 

[KJ]

I got an answer that explains it. Treat it like 3 different bets, +354, so initial stake of 50/3=$16.67 pays $59.01 for 4th, $59.01 for 5th and 6th is a loser of 16.67 so net is $101.34.

In some odd way without theorems and postulates that's how I've seen it as well in the past

Just much more properly put down in writing like that although the +354 part would have driven me nuts considering you didn't ever intend for that price

Just more gamblin' fun Tim!

 

[Timh]

In some odd way without theorems and postulates that's how I've seen it as well in the past

Just much more properly put down in writing like that although the +354 part would have driven me nuts considering you didn't ever intend for that price

Just more gamblin' fun Tim!

I think my conclusion is that it's prob best to avoid the possibility of dead heat diluting your bet. It's a total guess on how many ties enter the equation. And if I was waiting on customer support at BM to explain it correctly I would be dead in the grave.

 

[KJ]

I think my conclusion is that it's prob best to avoid the possibility of dead heat diluting your bet. It's a total guess on how many ties enter the equation.

Betting on a top 5 with three tied for fourth should have yielded you a profit

I'm so lost here that I don't know if it did but I hope so

 

[Timh]

Betting on a top 5 with three tied for fourth should have yielded you a profit

I'm so lost here that I don't know if it did but I hope so

It ended up paying a little over 2-1 with $50 the initial stake. Peanuts bet that I spent a lot of time trying to understand how it was graded but in the end learned something and figure I don't nec want to mess with the poss of dead heats.