CFB Rankings Week #4

Adding more illogical metrics doesn't help the cause.

It's ok to admit that we don't have the answers.

We could have the answers. Utilize a playoff where entrance can be achieved by objective accomplishment. Easy. Wow.

works in mlb, nfl, ncaab, fcs football, womens soccer, mens soccer, nhl, nba, insert other sport here.

But the fascist twats who are in control of college football have other plans.
 
Just have a committee determine the best recruiting classes and combine with the preseason polls and figure it out, fuck the season
 
Games don't matter. Just take the four teams that should be the best whether they accomplished anything or not.

I think we should just skip over the season. We should have just had Florida state and Alabama play for the title. Cut down on concussions, kids can go to class more ...

So you're cool with the idea that Wisky is more deserving to play in the conf champ game over OSU and mich?

Just curious.
 
Vk mad about the wku LA Tech score. I immediately thought of you watching these teams piling up the points. Lol. It's borderline insane in that one.
 
The only non subjective argument in this thread is that take is in the 1% club.
 
So you're cool with the idea that Wisky is more deserving to play in the conf champ game over OSU and mich?

Just curious.

Of course.

There were objective measures for determining who advances in that conference. All teams were aware of the objective measures prior to the season starting. All teams were aware of any tiebreaker scenarios that may arise. All teams could then create strategy to best meet those needs. Prepare longer for one game than another, rest players as needed, etc. ... then at the end of the year, you look at what team did what it objectively took (with all teams having the same objective basis points to determine a champion and EVERY opportunity to accomplish them) to make the championship game. That team succeeded. The teams that did not meet that criteria failed. Of course I am for rewarding the team that actually accomplished the task.

Saying Michigan or Ohio State is more deserving is ridiculous. It would be like saying Ohio State winning the game against Michigan is meaningless because Michigan is the better team and played better than Ohio State did that day. It didn't matter because we have objective rules (ok refs add a little subjective aspect to the game itself) that state the team with the most points at the end of the game wins, regardless of who is better or who played better.

Are you ok with dropping Ohio State and raising Michigan because the Wolverines were the better team all year and on the day they played? Ya, didn't think so.
 
Of course.

There were objective measures for determining who advances in that conference.

There were objective measures but objective measures aren't necessarily fair or appropriate nor are they automatically adequate tools to determine a true champion.

The team that can stand on their head for the most minutes during the game shall advance to the conference championship game. Objective, but stupid.


It would be like saying Ohio State winning the game against Michigan is meaningless because Michigan is the better team and played better than Ohio State did that day.

Umm, it's not like saying that at all. OSU beat mich. OSU beat Wisky. Mich beat wisky. I'm looking at wins and losses. You're looking at arbitrary divisional alignment to determine which team is better or more deserving.

Are you ok with dropping Ohio State and raising Michigan because the Wolverines were the better team all year and on the day they played? Ya, didn't think so.

You want an objective system but seem to have no problem defaulting back to subjective metrics like 'better team all year' or 'better team the day they played'. Not really sure how you're going about making such determinations. As far as that game in particular the box score certainly doesn't support that argument.
 
You want an objective system but seem to have no problem defaulting back to subjective metrics like 'better team all year' or 'better team the day they played'. Not really sure how you're going about making such determinations. As far as that game in particular the box score certainly doesn't support that argument.
he is making the point that OSU objectively won the game.
 
he is making the point that OSU objectively won the game.

which is a terrific point and not something I've ever argued with and not the least bit relevant to my issues with using divisional alignment as a means to determine the best or most deserving team. so to bring it back against me would be an invalid argument.
 
It's probably time I go back to watching Bedlam rather than wasting my life arguing on this thread, lol. But I've said that I think 3 times now so somehow I keep getting sucked back in:-(.

Its hard to not to. Which is why I love cfb. Can debate it for hours.
 
which is a terrific point and not something I've ever argued with. so to bring it back against me would be an invalid argument.
Not just against you but against everyone that is twisting the argument to suit individual cases. There need to be defined measures to objectively define all of this. But the CFP does not actually want that. They will put in who they want and justify it on the back end however they may. Conference champ mattered in the case of TCU, won't seem to matter this year.
 
tOSU objectively won that game, Penn State and Wisconsin objectively won their divisions, this doesn't seem debatable.
 
Not just against you but against everyone that is twisting the argument to suit individual cases. There need to be defined measures to objectively define all of this. But the CFP does not actually want that. They will put in who they want and justify it on the back end however they may. Conference champ mattered in the case of TCU, won't seem to matter this year.

Like I said earlier, when someone smarter than myself and everyone else here is able to figure that out then let me know. It'll be great!
 
tOSU objectively won that game, Penn State and Wisconsin objectively won their divisions, this doesn't seem debatable.

true. not debatable.

but u can debate whether or not the rules setup to determine division and conference winners are a good standard to use for determining the top 4 teams. that's strictly a matter of opinion i suppose. Wisky objectively lost to osu and mich so you'll have to excuse me if I don't consider them the best team in the big 10.
 
There were objective measures but objective measures aren't necessarily fair or appropriate nor are they automatically adequate tools to determine a true champion.

The team that can stand on their head for the most minutes during the game shall advance to the conference championship game. Objective, but stupid.




Umm, it's not like saying that at all. OSU beat mich. OSU beat Wisky. Mich beat wisky. I'm looking at wins and losses. You're looking at arbitrary divisional alignment to determine which team is better or more deserving.

Are you ok with dropping Ohio State and raising Michigan because the Wolverines were the better team all year and on the day they played? Ya, didn't think so.

You want an objective system but seem to have no problem defaulting back to subjective metrics like 'better team all year' or 'better team the day they played'. Not really sure how you're going about making such determinations. As far as that game in particular the box score certainly doesn't support that argument.[/QUOTE]

That is the point of my whole argument and thank you for taking the bait. The subjective system that excludes over 50% of the teams from ever having a chance before the season starts can NEVER produce a true champion. Moreover, the subjective system cannot even distinguish successfully between the less than 50% of the teams who do have a chance before the season starts. It is the worst system possible.

Ohio State and Michigan could win their games and go to the conference championship games. They actually had that opportunity. They failed. Wisconsin and Penn State succeeded.

Interesting that you would complain about the division alignment in the BIG while pointing at Western Michigan's schedule as a reason to exclude them too.

I want Ohio State, Michigan, Western Michigan and every other FBS team to have opportunity. You don't.

The team that can stand on their head for the most minutes during the game shall advance to the conference championship game. Objective, but stupid.

If that is the objective rule, it is what should be used and the power5 schools will then have all the inroads to recruiting 5 star Headstanders. As long as all the teams have objective rules to play by, and the measuring stick for winning and for advancing are objective and applied to all, then you have no legitimate complaint.

The great thing is .... the headstand example shows the level of corruption. As ridiculous as your example is, the teams with bad headstanding would have less to complain about than a team that wins every single one of its games and cannot play in the playoffs. The way we are currently doing things is THAT silly.


We will never be able to have it entirely fair. Some teams are going to be at home certain seasons when they play eachother and all sorts of other issues. Objective measure will always be better than subjective measure and the former far more distant from corruption and bias than the later. And fulfilling objective measures is the only way to create a true champion. The only way.
 
Right, the entire regular season in which wisky lost more conference games than other teams in the conference (and lost to the 2 best squads) yet somehow 'did what was necessary' to make it to the champ game.

Maybe scrap the division stuff? Which will be awesome because then we can just get a sequel to games that have already been played, lol.

I also find it amazing that the big 10 was somehow able to determine a conference winner for all of these years without a championship game...and now this farce of a champ game is the only thing that matters.

I agree on divisions but it is what it is. Survive the regular season in your division and you get in the conference championship. Something to be said for that considering the "two best (lol)" teams aren't playing in it.
 
true. not debatable.

but u can debate whether or not the rules setup to determine division and conference winners are a good standard to use for determining the top 4 teams. that's strictly a matter of opinion i suppose. Wisky objectively lost to osu and mich so you'll have to excuse me if I don't consider them the best team in the big 10.

The great thing is that it doesn't matter if you consider them the best team or if I do. We get the pleasure of eliminating the subjective opinions of people to actually see whether the teams accomplished what they set out to accomplish with regards to advancing to the conference championship.

Do you think we should strip Ohio State of their title two years ago because they were not the best team? They were underdogs after all.
 
Games don't matter. Just take the four teams that should be the best whether they accomplished anything or not.

I think we should just skip over the season. We should have just had Florida state and Alabama play for the title. Cut down on concussions, kids can go to class more ...

Agree that is basically what they are saying. Same arguments they used last year don't matter this year. Bunch of douchebags. Was at game day this morning, Herbie and Desmond probably two biggest.
 
So you're cool with the idea that Wisky is more deserving to play in the conf champ game over OSU and mich?

Just curious.

You fuckin guys that whine incessant about everything needs to be equal all the time are ridiculous. Every big ten team knows what it needs to do to make their conference championship at th beginning of the season. Two accomplished that. What the fuck is so hard about understanding that. I don't get it. Do you want to reshuffle the B1G every two years?
 
Subjectively, I drive more safely at .08 BAC than 95% of drivers on the road.

Objectively, I must not drive because it's illegal.

Rules blow but they're rules.
 
You fuckin guys that whine incessant about everything needs to be equal all the time are ridiculous. Every big ten team knows what it needs to do to make their conference championship at th beginning of the season. Two accomplished that. What the fuck is so hard about understanding that. I don't get it. Do you want to reshuffle the B1G every two years?

Cool. Have a nice day.
 
Interesting that you would complain about the division alignment in the BIG while pointing at Western Michigan's schedule as a reason to exclude them too.

It's also interesting that the only metric you're using for WMU is that they have 1 less loss than other contenders and this somehow objectively makes them a 'better team'...yet Wisky and PSU have 2 losses vs OSU's 1 loss but now total losses don't matter. Let's at least try to be consistent.

And actually I'm not really sure what the connection is between WMU's lack of competition vs divisional alignment. Wisky and OSU both went out and scheduled legit OOC opponents.

I want Ohio State, Michigan, Western Michigan and every other FBS team to have opportunity. You don't.

Well according to skoalmint you're a fucking ridiculous whiner with your desire for fairness, but anywho...

Please don't tell me what I want or don't want. I'm all for giving everyone their rightful opportunity* but concede I'm not smart enough nor do I believe you're smart enough to create a system to make that happen. In the mean time, I'll get on with my life and save my anger and frustrations for things that actually matter in the world.


*but please don't play an ass juice schedule
 
It's also interesting that the only metric you're using for WMU is that they have 1 less loss than other contenders and this somehow objectively makes them a 'better team'...yet Wisky and PSU have 2 losses vs OSU's 1 loss but now total losses don't matter. Let's at least try to be consistent.

And actually I'm not really sure what the connection is between WMU's lack of competition vs divisional alignment. Wisky and OSU both went out and scheduled legit OOC opponents.



Well according to skoalmint you're a fucking ridiculous whiner with your desire for fairness, but anywho...

Please don't tell me what I want or don't want. I'm all for giving everyone their rightful opportunity* but concede I'm not smart enough nor do I believe you're smart enough to create a system to make that happen. In the mean time, I'll get on with my life and save my anger and frustrations for things that actually matter in the world.


*but please don't play an ass juice schedule

Well the difference between the 1 loss tOSU and the 2 loss teams you mentioned is that tOSU is not even playing the their conference title game, and one of the 2 loss teams will be the champion. The committee said last year that winning the conference was of great importance. So the fact that now it's somehow different, and a team that isn't even playing in the title game may make the playoff is a complete and utter joke.
 
It's also interesting that the only metric you're using for WMU is that they have 1 less loss than other contenders and this somehow objectively makes them a 'better team'...yet Wisky and PSU have 2 losses vs OSU's 1 loss but now total losses don't matter. Let's at least try to be consistent.

And actually I'm not really sure what the connection is between WMU's lack of competition vs divisional alignment. Wisky and OSU both went out and scheduled legit OOC opponents.



Well according to skoalmint you're a fucking ridiculous whiner with your desire for fairness, but anywho...

Please don't tell me what I want or don't want. I'm all for giving everyone their rightful opportunity* but concede I'm not smart enough nor do I believe you're smart enough to create a system to make that happen. In the mean time, I'll get on with my life and save my anger and frustrations for things that actually matter in the world.


*but please don't play an ass juice schedule

No. I called you a fuckin whiner.

VK wants a team that plays in Div 1 and schedules power conference OOC games and then goes undefeated to be afforded the same opportunity as the big conferences.

And a "smart" enough system is in place and it's called conference championship.
 
*but please don't play an ass juice schedule

This is such a tough thing to argue though because in WMU's case they scheduled, and beat 2 B1G teams...on the road no less. The contention is that the non-Power 5 teams should schedule games against Power 5 opponents...which they did. So then it will be "play the better Power 5 teams" now that they won games against not so good Power 5 teams...but those better teams refuse to schedule games with teams they feel may have a shot to beat them, so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy...and a pretty good way for the Power 5 to continue to manipulate the system.

How about the NCAA just starts mandating schedules, or just making them themselves so we can see who the best teams really are, on the field?
 
We could have the answers. Utilize a playoff where entrance can be achieved by objective accomplishment. Easy. Wow.

works in mlb, nfl, ncaab, fcs football, womens soccer, mens soccer, nhl, nba, insert other sport here.

But the fascist twats who are in control of college football have other plans.

Is your contention that just the conference champs go to playoff?

Just curious, as you make numbers, would it be fair to say that the BiG or Sec or whatever has a hater road than the MAC or 'Merican?
I know you are smart so the answer is yes. So then, I guess you would say,"Right, so dispose of those teams when you meet!"
And I would say, "Yes!"

Ok.....but what would happen is the OOC games we love so much would be gone.

I like the spirit of your argument but it just can't happen Kyle
 
Why would losing those OOC games be so bad? They apparently don't mean much anymore.
 
Well the difference between the 1 loss tOSU and the 2 loss teams you mentioned is that tOSU is not even playing the their conference title game, and one of the 2 loss teams will be the champion. The committee said last year that winning the conference was of great importance. So the fact that now it's somehow different, and a team that isn't even playing in the title game may make the playoff is a complete and utter joke.
Agree 100%
The fact that OSU is just "in" is tough to swallow.
The fact that they are just chilling at home and get in is bullshit....great team, but how can they be 2?
 
We already discussed this. Either you are trolling or this conversation is a waste of time.

Sorry, I don't recall discussing the topic of OSU's situation 2 years ago...

and if we already discussed it then why are we discussing it again?

Not trolling...if this is a waste of time for you then feel free to take a hike.
 
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No. I called you a fuckin whiner.

And now I'm calling you a fucking bitter asshole. Go bother someone else. Cool?

Like how badly is this discussion going to devolve?

And I would say whatever "whining" is coming from the lot of you who can't handle that your preferred team isn't getting a trip to the dance. Which hasn't been my deal at all.
 
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Well the difference between the 1 loss tOSU and the 2 loss teams you mentioned is that tOSU is not even playing the their conference title game, and one of the 2 loss teams will be the champion. The committee said last year that winning the conference was of great importance. So the fact that now it's somehow different, and a team that isn't even playing in the title game may make the playoff is a complete and utter joke.

They said it was of importance but not the only metric of importance.

If winning your conf championship is the end-all, be-all for YOU...then there really isn't anything to discuss. But that's your preference and not the preference of the committee nor their stated goal.

"Rules are rules" apparently...and there is no rule that conference championships are mandatory for entry into the playoffs.
 
No one has the answers, not even the committee....nothing new
Money rules the world, big deal....not worth starting Internet fights over it...life isn't fair, so why would sports be fair?
 
And now I'm calling you a fucking bitter asshole. Go bother someone else. Cool?

Like how badly is this discussion going to devolve?

And I would say whatever "whining" is coming from the lot of you who can't handle that your preferred team isn't getting a trip to the dance. Which hasn't been my deal at all.

Sorry for offending you. I don't know how to debate like I have a cunt. Apparently you do, but that's cool.

And you've missed the point. No one here gives a fuck about "their" team not in. It's a different discussion.
 
I don't have a preferred team I want to get in. I want a system where no ones opinion or preference makes the call of who gets in and who doesn't but rather a system that is inclusive to teams who accomplish objective measures.

Twinkie, I am ok with wild cards getting in along with conference champions, just not sure there is enough time/games in a post season to fit that in. As for the tougher schedule part, I think a fair opportunity would also decrease the level of imbalance we have in the conferences. You might start seeing conference realignment where an also ran power five school like Missouri, Iowa, Washington State, Georgia Tech, or Oklahoma State move to another conference where they would be more likely to win conference championships. This would eventually lead to more parity between conferences. But I would have no problem with wild cards so long as every conference champion had an invite.

It really isn't worth getting worked up over.

If we are to continue down this path, we might as well mothball conference championships. In the next few hours we are going to see a meaningless BigTen title game (Wisconsin and Penn State do not make it in no matter what the result is) and a worthless SEC title game (Bama is in no matter what, Florida is out no matter what). Yawn. I won't even watch the SEC game.

As for the Western Michigan scheduling ooc ... they scheduled a road game at a team that had preseason top 25 votes and took tosu to the wire, they scheduled a team that took georgia to overtime the year prior and was an undefeated conference champion the year prior to that, and then scheduled some team from a mediocre, overrated conference in the form of illinois. I dunno how you blast them for their ooc schedule ... it is certainly better than Michigan's hawaii ucf colorado (all at home) ooc schedule. And you are giving Michigan the benefit of the doubt with Colorado ... they had no idea that Colorado would finally be good again.
 
Incidentally, I am a BigTen fan. I like the way TOSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska play football. It is generally a better product for the type of game that I like compared to most other conferences where it is not the type of game I like. But pretending the conference is so head and shoulders above other conferences that they would get two teams in or that a team that finished third in that conference should get into a playoff is just an insult to my intelligence.
 
Please stop calling each other names. It's a good discussion. Keep it rolling.
Thanks.
 
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