Adrian Peterson Indicted Negligence to Child resulting in Injury

TheHbomb said:
Ahhhhh. the free strike policy! Got it! Get out of jail free card for the first blood draw! Fuck the kid! I
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The kid is fucked if he doesn't learn there are negative consequences to his actions. That isn't done by giving him timeout, talking to him, taking his xbox away etc. .....
 
clowncar said:
Yes. I think it is the job of the parent to discipline their child. It is not the job of a husband to discipline his wife. And by violence, I mean spanking ... using a switch or paddle is a step above but if done appropriately it isn't a big deal. I said .. if the kid was 4 this was excessive. I am just saying that kids are growing up entitled and unparented ( not a word ). There are some differences here .. he isn't a full time Dad by all accounts, the kid was 4, he went over the top with it ... but in general I think it is good for a kid to take a whooping when he deserves it if it will teach him a lesson.
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Do we agree, that those who strike children as a form of punishment, often do so when they are very angry and annoyed?

Do we also agree that a "well meaned" spanking can at times lead to a bit more than intended because of the anger?

And finally, those who don't use violence as form of punishment, never take it too far.. Those who do accept violence as an appropriate form of punishment will occasionally go over the line?

Just saying, lots of ways to punish a child and the Emergency room records nationwide show there has yet to be a child admitted for excessive Xbox revocation
 
clowncar said:
Yes. I think it is the job of the parent to discipline their child. It is not the job of a husband to discipline his wife. And by violence, I mean spanking ... using a switch or paddle is a step above but if done appropriately it isn't a big deal. I said .. if the kid was 4 this was excessive. I am just saying that kids are growing up entitled and unparented ( not a word ). There are some differences here .. he isn't a full time Dad by all accounts, the kid was 4, he went over the top with it ... but in general I think it is good for a kid to take a whooping when he deserves it if it will teach him a lesson.
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the science, many studies, show that what you think is good for a kid couldn't be more wrong

Want your kid to stop whatever dangerous/annoying/forbidden behavior he’s doing right now? Spanking will probably work — for now.But be prepared for that same child to be more aggressive toward you and his siblings, his friends and his eventual spouse. Oh, and get ready for some other antisocial behaviors too.
A new analysis of two decades of research on the long-term effects of physical punishment in children concludes that spanking doesn’t work and can actually wreak havoc on kids’ long-term development, according to an article published Monday in the Canadian Medical Association Journal.
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doesn't matter with an older kid too
In fact, regardless of the age of the children or the size of the sample, none of more than 80 studies on the effects of physical punishment have succeeded in finding positive associations
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the idea that hitting kids as discipline is acceptable is one that in the future is just going to be looked on with bewilderment in the same way we look at things today from the past like segregation, slavery, and women not being allowed to vote etc.
 
TheHbomb said:
So, if it truly isn't a big deal, then what's the point in doing it? Please tell me what is the goal of hitting a kid?

A. To inflict physical harm
B. To instill fear
C. To Teach
D. Other
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correct answer not listed..

E. let parent release pent up anger
 
I find it bizarre that anyone believes children can't fear consequence of action without being struck
 
tee*dub said:
Do we agree, that those who strike children as a form of punishment, often do so when they are very angry and annoyed?

Do we also agree that a "well meaned" spanking can at times lead to a bit more than intended because of the anger?

And finally, those who don't use violence as form of punishment, never take it too far.. Those who do accept violence as an appropriate form of punishment will occasionally go over the line?

Just saying, lots of ways to punish a child and the Emergency room records nationwide show there has yet to be a child admitted for excessive Xbox revocation
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You are comparing someone physically disciplining a kid to appease themselves vs. someone disciplining a kid to teach the kid a life lesson.
 
clowncar said:
Abuse, lol.

I think once you draw blood, you should probably adjust down going forward and of course stop the moment you see it the first time. I guess that is the real problem here ... it isn't like he didn't see he had hurt the kid on the first laceration and he kept going. Using a switch, you could maybe ( maybe ) mistake a cut for a scratch.

Kids have no fear anymore. It's a problem.
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OK, got it now.. OK to Take it right to the point before blood and OK to test that "blood point" out once and then dial back,,,, on a child....
 
clowncar said:
The kid is fucked if he doesn't learn there are negative consequences to his actions. That isn't done by giving him timeout, talking to him, taking his xbox away etc. .....
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I keep hearing "timeout" in this thread. Such a layperson term. Timeout is not at all what I am referring to. A parent (if done properly) controls every single thing in their child's life. They most often don't realize it though. Yes, you keep taking shit away until they are left with nothing but a bed....and you don't elicit reaction and you wait them out for as long as it takes. They learn real quickly who is in charge. The amazing part is, this can be done easily and effectively with out any violence, threat of violence or yelling from the parent. What a novel concept!

Problem is most people don't believe this, want to believe it, or are too lazy or archaic minded to follow through. That is the real problem....a parent problem.

Parents, by and large, have expectations of their children that are unrealistic. What???? You expected your kid to come to dinner and put away the video game the first time you yelled dinner was ready? Well, that is a YOU problem; however, you as a parent can certainly make sure the kid comes to the dinner table, first time, every time if you lock that Xbox in a safe for a full week without even a conversation everytime the child doesn't come to dinner when called. Parents are lazy and undisciplined these days; not kids. Kids are doing the same thing they have always done, pushing the boundaries that parents are supposed to create for them. The problem is most parents these days don't teach the boundaries....at least not in the right way.
 
guaranteeed said:
the science, many studies, show that what you think is good for a kid couldn't be more wrong



doesn't matter with an older kid too


the idea that hitting kids as discipline is acceptable is one that in the future is just going to be looked on with bewilderment in the same way we look at things today from the past like segregation, slavery, and women not being allowed to vote etc.
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Shit we kill kids in the womb and no one cares .. doubt spanking is viewed in the light of equal rights for minorities ( majorities in the future ) and women.
 
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TheHbomb said:
I keep hearing "timeout" in this thread. Such a layperson term. Timeout is not at all what I am referring to. A parent (if done properly) controls every single thing in their child's life. They most often don't realize it though. Yes, you keep taking shit away until they are left with nothing but a bed....and you don't elicit reaction and you wait them out for as long as it takes. They learn real quickly who is in charge. The amazing part is, this can be done easily and effectively with out any violence, threat of violence or yelling from the parent. What a novel concept!

Problem is most people don't believe this, want to believe it, or are too lazy or archaic minded to follow through. That is the real problem....a parent problem.

Parents, by and large, have expectations of their children that are unrealistic. What???? You expected your kid to come to dinner and put away the video game the first time you yelled dinner was ready? Well, that is a YOU problem; however, you as a parent can certainly make sure the kid comes to the dinner table, first time, every time if you lock that Xbox in a safe for a full week without even a conversation everytime the child doesn't come to dinner when called. Parents are lazy and undisciplined these days; not kids. Kids are doing the same thing they have always done, pushing the boundaries that parents are supposed to create for them. The problem is most parents these days don't teach the boundaries....at least not in the right way.
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It is just another tool in addition to all the ones you mention. It isn't a replacement for them.
 
TheHbomb said:
I keep hearing "timeout" in this thread. Such a layperson term. Timeout is not at all what I am referring to. A parent (if done properly) controls every single thing in their child's life. They most often don't realize it though. Yes, you keep taking shit away until they are left with nothing but a bed....and you don't elicit reaction and you wait them out for as long as it takes. They learn real quickly who is in charge. The amazing part is, this can be done easily and effectively with out any violence, threat of violence or yelling from the parent. What a novel concept!

Problem is most people don't believe this, want to believe it, or are too lazy or archaic minded to follow through. That is the real problem....a parent problem.

Parents, by and large, have expectations of their children that are unrealistic. What???? You expected your kid to come to dinner and put away the video game the first time you yelled dinner was ready? Well, that is a YOU problem; however, you as a parent can certainly make sure the kid comes to the dinner table, first time, every time if you lock that Xbox in a safe for a full week without even a conversation everytime the child doesn't come to dinner when called. Parents are lazy and undisciplined these days; not kids. Kids are doing the same thing they have always done, pushing the boundaries that parents are supposed to create for them. The problem is most parents these days don't teach the boundaries....at least not in the right way.
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Thread winner here IMO

We are a lazy species as a whole and it's a lot easier to hit your kid than to take the time to discipline them correctly.

Do you really expect to be able to hit your kid and then not get mad at them when they hit another kid at school? That's something you expect that your child should be able to understand but you don't think they can understand any other form of punishment aside from a beating. It is simply bewildering to me
 
Schrute said:
Thread winner here IMO

We are a lazy species as a whole and it's a lot easier to hit your kid than to take the time to discipline them correctly.

Do you really expect to be able to hit your kid and then not get mad at them when they hit another kid at school? That's something you expect that your child should be able to understand but you don't think they can understand any other form of punishment aside from a beating. It is simply bewildering to me
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Again, it is just another tool for a parent .. not a replacement for all other forms of teaching.
 
it's a tool with proof that it doesn't work in any type of reinforcement of actions

and just leads to an ongoing cycle of violence in the childs life
 
clowncar said:
You are comparing someone physically disciplining a kid to appease themselves vs. someone disciplining a kid to teach the kid a life lesson.
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Yep-- the life lesson is demonstrated in many posts up in this thread.. And in many cases that lesson will be multi generational..

Children never listen to their parents but they never fail to imitate them
 
guaranteeed said:
it's a tool with proof that it doesn't work in any type of reinforcement of actions

and just leads to an ongoing cycle of violence in the childs life
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Doubt it. Canadian study aside.

Have a feeling the study includes abusive parents ... not spanking parents
 
lol

you guys are making out spankers as abusers ... they are two different things. if you want to lump them in together then by all means do .. but it makes the debate worthless
 
tee*dub said:
Yep-- the life lesson is demonstrated in many posts up in this thread.. And in many cases that lesson will be multi generational..

Children never listen to their parents but they never fail to imitate them
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Well said. (Written)
 
clowncar said:
Doubt it. Canadian study aside.

Have a feeling the study includes abusive parents ... not spanking parents
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or this other study that focused solely on spanking

http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/

Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it’s effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. “It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it’s very ineffective,” says Holden. “The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression.”
Case in point: one mother in the study hit her toddler after the toddler either hit or kicked the mother, admonishing, “This is to help you remember not to hit your mother.”


 
clowncar said:
It is ok to switch your kid if you don't go overboard.
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Do you believe in anger 100% of the time you wouldn't go overboard? That's my point... If its not in your punishment "tool kit" you have no chance of fucking it up.. If it is, your will at some point fuck it up--- and then so will AD's 4 year old on his little child
 
I don't want to debate spanking or what are correct forms of discipline, sticking to this particular case, hitting a 4 year old with a stick a dozen or so times so that a week later (yes, those pictures were taken a week after the so called discipline) the child still has bruises and lacerations is abuse.
 
Schrute said:
How do you classify AP?
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4 year old with multiple lacerations is excessive and over the top. If it was a pattern of abuse he deserves to be punished harshly himself. If not, he is probably guilty of a poor parenting decision and deserves a smaller punishment .. probably short of jail time ...

A swat on the bottom should be enough on a 4 year old.
 
Hope, women who make bad decisions while drinking , make good decisions on birth control
 
Lloyd Braun said:
You don't see how it may be counter productive to get a child to stop hitting by hitting them?
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if the kid is capable of thinking in those terms maybe. Most aren't. Bad behavior hurts, good behavior feels good is about as far as their feeble minds can go in most cases. Again, not saying bloody the kid up and give him a black eye ... saying a solid swat on the bottom while making it clear why they got it is.

If you saw someone hitting your grandmother ( assuming your grandmother were alive ) ... would you just tell the guy to stop?
 
clowncar said:
if the kid is capable of thinking in those terms maybe. Most aren't. Bad behavior hurts, good behavior feels good is about as far as their feeble minds can go in most cases. Again, not saying bloody the kid up and give him a black eye ... saying a solid swat on the bottom while making it clear why they got it is.

If you saw someone hitting your grandmother ( assuming your grandmother were alive ) ... would you just tell the guy to stop?
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no no no

you can't say someone, because your reaction should be a lot different if it was a 4 year old doing it vs a 24 year old
 
clowncar said:
if the kid is capable of thinking in those terms maybe. Most aren't. Bad behavior hurts, good behavior feels good is about as far as their feeble minds can go in most cases. Again, not saying bloody the kid up and give him a black eye ... saying a solid swat on the bottom while making it clear why they got it is.

If you saw someone hitting your grandmother ( assuming your grandmother were alive ) ... would you just tell the guy to stop?
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A grown man assaulting an elderly woman already failed at living correctly in a society probably because he grew up in an atmosphere of violence
 
clowncar said:
if the kid is capable of thinking in those terms maybe. Most aren't. Bad behavior hurts, good behavior feels good is about as far as their feeble minds can go in most cases. Again, not saying bloody the kid up and give him a black eye ... saying a solid swat on the bottom while making it clear why they got it is.

If you saw someone hitting your grandmother ( assuming your grandmother were alive ) ... would you just tell the guy to stop?
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I have an 18 month old who loves to play in the fireplace and pull our dog's tail. If I ask him "do you want to go into time-out", he will whimper and stop the bad behavior. This works probably 90% of the time. The other 10% of the time he doesn't stop and he goes and cries in time-out for 10-15 minutes. He clearly understands the word and concept of time-out. I think you are severely underestimating children and what they understand.
 
Schrute said:
I have an 18 month old who loves to play in the fireplace and pull our dog's tail. If I ask him "do you want to go into time-out", he will whimper and stop the bad behavior. This works probably 90% of the time. The other 10% of the time he doesn't stop and he goes and cries in time-out for 10-15 minutes. He clearly understands the word and concept of time-out. I think you are severely underestimating children and what they understand.
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Already abusing animals? not a good sign.
 
I don't think a kid is thinking in the terms of ... I was hit as a punishment for this so I will hit people when they do something I think is wrong. I think they are thinking ... I played in the fireplace and Dwight put me in timeout which sucked... maybe I shouldn't do that again.
 
gonna watch gameday.

And maybe I am wrong. All I know is kids today are disrespectful asses. They must be getting abused a lot.
 
clowncar said:
I don't think a kid is thinking in the terms of ... I was hit as a punishment for this so I will hit people when they do something I think is wrong. I think they are thinking ... I played in the fireplace and Dwight put me in timeout which sucked... maybe I shouldn't do that again.
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Right but I just don't see at what point taking things away from them turns into hitting them. IMO that's a big leap
 
clowncar said:
gonna watch gameday.

And maybe I am wrong. All I know is kids today are disrespectful asses. They must be getting abused a lot.
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Society as a whole is far more disrespectful. I don't think it is a reflection on kids not being spanked. I don't believe there is any correlation...I believe the correlation is lazy parenting
 
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