RG 3 or Kirk Cousins

twinkie13

twinkie13

In transit, arriving late.
Robert Griffin III's role as Washington's clear-cut starter has been called into question by former Redskins quarterback Joe Theismann.
Theismann, now a sportscaster for the Redskins Broadcast Network, said during Washington's loss Saturday night to the Baltimore Ravens that backup Kirk Cousins has been a better quarterback than Griffin.
[h=4]Perhaps He Has A Point[/h]
i
Joe Theismann might be on to something. This preseason, Kirk Cousins has thrown four more touchdowns and 229 more yards than Robert Griffin III despite only leading two more drives.
[TABLE="width: 240"]
<thead style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent;">[TR]
[TH]Category[/TH]
[TH]RG III[/TH]
[TH]Cousins[/TH]
[/TR]
</thead><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent;">[TR="class: last"]
[TD]Drives*[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]Comp-Att[/TD]
[TD]13-20[/TD]
[TD]35-54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]Pass yds[/TD]
[TD]141[/TD]
[TD]370[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last"]
[TD]TD-INT[/TD]
[TD]0-2[/TD]
[TD]4-1[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody><tfoot style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent;">[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]*Excludes kneel at end of half Saturday
-- ESPN Stats & Information[/TD]
[/TR]
</tfoot>[/TABLE]


"Let's stop beating around the bush," Theismann said during the broadcast, according to The Washington Post. "Kirk Cousins has played much better at the quarterback position than Robert Griffin III has. Now, Robert is learning to work out of a pocket. He doesn't look as smooth or as comfortable throwing the football. I mean, your eyes will tell you everything you need to know.
"It's going to be a decision that Jay Gruden is going to have to make. Right now, Robert Griffin III is his quarterback. Now, if there was a quarterback competition, it wouldn't be a competition. Kirk Cousins would be the man I believe he would have to go to, because of the efficiency with which he has run [the offense]. Now Kirk, like I said, is basically a dropback quarterback. I see Andy Dalton in Cincinnati, I see Kirk Cousins that way."
Griffin went 5-for-7 for 20 yards in the first half of Washington's 23-17 loss and was sacked three times. He returned in the third quarter and threw just one pass, an interception deep in Washington territory. He also dropped a snap and gained 3 yards on three impromptu runs.
"I think there's going to be a lot of conversation after this football game regarding the quarterback position," Theismann said on the broadcast.
"You can't avoid it. Your eyes don't lie to you. Robert has struggled in the limited opportunities that he has had. And Kirk Cousins has seized the opportunities that he has had when it comes to playing the position and understanding the offense."
Cousins went 14-for-20 for 122 yards and two touchdowns against the Ravens.
nfl_a_theisman11_288x162.jpg
<cite style="margin: 0px 0px 4px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; color: rgb(171, 171, 171); background: transparent;">AP Photo/Steve Helber</cite>"Kirk Cousins has played much better at the quarterback position than Robert Griffin III has," former Washington QB Joe Theismann said.


"Kirk Cousins did a very good job tonight getting the ball out of his hands," Theismann said. "Decisive with the ball, very accurate when it came to throwing it, and his decisions were very good as well. So it was a very complete second half for him. And you can say it's against the second team, you can say he's with the second team. It doesn't matter. He did a heckuva job tonight."
For his part, Griffin acknowledged he and the offense need to make improvements.
"The offense goes as I go, so personally, I have to play better," he said. "But I think we shot ourselves in the foot too many times, had too many mistakes. Whenever we can get 11 guys working in one direction, we're going to be something special. That's something we'll continue to work on. We'll get it fixed."
First-year coach Gruden also addressed Griffin's performance.
"He's got to move on," he said. "We've got to do a better job of getting in rhythm, get some completions early, get some first downs. We were so bad on first and second down, I think, it kept us in some third down-and-longs."
Gruden said Griffin and most of the Washington starters would not play in the preseason finale at Tampa Bay. Washington opens the season Sept. 7 at Houston.
Information from The Associated Press is included in this report.
 
I dunno but it should be pointed out cousins has played against back up defenses
 
Ceiling higher with RG3 but floor lower with him too IMO

Hes a phenomenal competitor and I would trade him before I bench him bc benching him would tear them apart
 
way more upside with RGIII - how many games did Cousins win last year when Robert went down? Different when the defense has a week to game plan for you. Washington would be smart to move Cousins now and actually get something in return.
 
Schrute said:
Ceiling higher with RG3 but floor lower with him too IMO

Hes a phenomenal competitor and I would trade him before I bench him bc benching him would tear them apart
Click to expand...

No need to trade him. I have said this before...his competitive side is way too high for his position. For the running QB's...he takes the worst hits and it will lead to injury. He doesn't know how to get out of bounds. He doesn't know how to slide and doesn't know how to protect himself. He will continue to get hurt til he figures this out. Watch Russell Wilson - never takes a hit, even with the read-option...because he runs outside or gets down, doesn't try to get extra yards. Kap is the same way...avoid the hits that cost your team.

Even in preseason - he takes hits. If it wasn't for that 7 game run his rookie season, he'd be labeled a bust. He needs to prove he can stay on the field. I'll give him a pass for last year, he had no pre-season and wasn't healthy to start the season. I like his game when healthy, but he is just too big an injury risk. He really needs to watch Kap and Russ to see how its done.
 
couldn't even wait to bump this thread p-unit, huh? lmao

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I hope he tore everything in his ankle. Then Cousins will finally get the shot he deserves. Although I bet against Skins today because RG3 was the qB.
 
RGIII and out has a dislocated ankle...they will obviously know more after the X-rays and MRI tomorrow, but it looks like he's out at least 2 months and could be the entire season if he needs surgery.
 
hmmm why is everyone thinking Cousins is the answer when he played vs the.....Jags. It's not like they played a NFL team.
 
Toronto_Mike said:
hmmm why is everyone thinking Cousins is the answer when he played vs the.....Jags. It's not like they played a NFL team.
Click to expand...

Agree about the Jags, but I'm not sure people are only using that game as the reason. He's played well when called upon in the past, and there have been rumblings about him for a while now.
 
played well?

Kirk Cousins’s 3 starts: 69-for-130 (53.1%), 747 yards (5.7 yds/att), 3 TD, 6 INT, 2 FUM. TO every 16.6 touches. Against terrible defenses.
 
I did what Marlo did,I bet against the skins because of rg3,so I was basically betting against him,I wouldnt have bet the game if Id have known Cousins was going to QB basically all the game.
 
Teeeds post is the lazy RGIII apologist go-to line. Cousins was filling in on a lost season for a team that was 3-10. He played behind the same OL that the RGIII fanboys blamed for his troubles and had a lame duck coach and OC with their feet out the door just closing out the stretch. Let's put that aside and see how the guy does now with the full reigns the rest of the season in games that matter.

Most telling in all this, though? The biggest RGIII dickrider I know, Silkydiamonds, has been extra quiet on this subject all season. You know if your #1 fan has stopped waving your flag, things are off.
 
J Galt said:
Teeeds post is the lazy RGIII apologist go-to line. Cousins was filling in on a lost season for a team that was 3-10. He played behind the same OL that the RGIII fanboys blamed for his troubles and had a lame duck coach and OC with their feet out the door just closing out the stretch. Let's put that aside and see how the guy does now with the full reigns the rest of the season in games that matter.

Most telling in all this, though? The biggest RGIII dickrider I know, Silkydiamonds, has been extra quiet on this subject all season. You know if your #1 fan has stopped waving your flag, things are off.
Click to expand...

me too man, I have argued with you until I was blue in the face saying that rg3 is good, and I really do still believe in the talent, but you have to be able to stay on the field, and he clearly cannot.

Having said that I still see nothing in cousins. I think he is a very good back up who can fill in, he is not the starter or face of a franchise. He kind of reminds me of when kolb put up good numbers vs a few bad teams. Yes, he is good enough to beat the jaguars of the world, but look a few posts above whenever he faces a really good team he does not play well. And thats fine, he is just not a starter.

the teams best bet is to draft a guy next year. If they think they can make a playoff run this year, cousins will surely win them a few games, but not enough I don't think
 
Lost in all this is that RG3 has looked very good in the early part of the year. 30-41 for 305 yards (2 passes totaling 103 yards incorrectly called incomplete passes by the officials on top of that) They are just completely different QBs. Cousins doesn't have great arm strength so he has to be very decisive and get rid of the ball quickly. Hes much more of a gunslinger than RG3 as he doesn't hesitate to throw the ball into coverage. What you lose from Cousins to RG is the downfield passing attack and the threat off the backside on zone running plays/play action. Alfred Morris's numbers with RG3 as opposed to Cousins are night and day and hopefully we can figure out a way to change that and get a productive running game with Cousins behind center. Also, I wonder how they will fit DeSean into the passing game with Cousins.

I think Cousins can play well, but he's the type of QB that needs weapons around him bc he doesn't make plays himself (see Andy Dalton type). Whereas, RG3 has the ability to make plays on his own and forces defenses into playing coverages they don't want to play. The zone running game and play action are very good weapons with a healthy RG3.

We have to change things up on offense, but we do have the talent (can't afford injuries to the OL at all). There is talented depth at RB, WR, and TE. With the defense playing as well as they have to start the year (vs. two mediocre offenses), I'm encouraged that we have a shot to play .500 ball.

The blessing in this is we get an extended look at Cousins to show if he can be a starting NFL QB or not, which helps with the decision on whether to let go, extend, or pick up the option on RG3.

Just FYI, but here are RG3s career numbers vs. Cousins:

563-889 63.3% 6,708 yards, 7.55 ypa, 36 td, 17 int 91.8 rating
136-236 57.6%, 1,570 yards 6.65 ypa 10 td, 10 int 74.3 rating
 
B.A.R. said:
Cue Uncle Galt v Nurda...:pillow:
Click to expand...


weve discussed the redskins qbs too much. i give, he was right. i still think rg3 could have been great, but he pointed to his injury potential from the start, so he gets that one. it sucks that it couldnt be played out ono the field, and who knows, maybe rg3 comes back with teh raiders and leads them back to prominence!

as far as mariota goes, if he really doesnt like him, then idk what to say to him. The kid is a beast, an athletic specimen, and the best qb prospect that i have seen with my eyes since the Luck/RG3 year. Guy will be a superstar.

If he disagrees and uses his "oregon system" argument, so be it. these are arguments that only time can tell who was right.
 
yeah, generally when a guy has size, a rocket arm, mobility and poise im going to like them. shocking i know.
 
D-Woww said:
yeah, generally when a guy has size, a rocket arm, mobility and poise im going to like them. shocking i know.
Click to expand...


He does have all that but has he shown the ability to throw in tight windows? I'm not sure he's shown that he can do that. I'm not saying he won't be a solid NFL QB because like you said above he does have a ton of the measureables but the ability to make quick, accurate decisions and throws is something he's not really been tested on yet. His stat lines against Stanford haven't been nearly as great as they have been against other opponents

2012 21-37 207 1-1
2013 20-34 250 2-0 solid but not the crazy stats he puts up against other teams

He hasn't had a nightmare game but I'm not sure he's a guaranteed superstar. I've never really seem him throw the out to the strong side of the field on 3rd and 4 where the receiver turns around and the ball hits him in the chest. I haven't seen him throw the slant on 3rd and 3 with the defender draped on the WR and a tight pocket where the ball must be placed. It's certainly fun to watch him play but his superstar status will be determined by whether or not he can make the above throws
 
D-Woww said:
I don't see how it is a lazy argument to point out that cousins has really not played well
Click to expand...

Of course you don't because you don't take into consideration situations, types of offense guys played in college in, durability, etc. You have the Dan Urda Stat, 40 Time, and Heisman Trophy QB Rating System. We take different approaches in our evaluations, and I think we can go ahead and leave it at that.

Btw I don't think anyone is saying that Cousins in the next Dan Marino. What I have been saying for the last 2+ seasons now is that Cousins is a better NFL QB than RGIII. He can make all the throws, is poised in the pocket, and does not waste any of his time in the offseason making horrible rap videos (http://youtu.be/iAYJ00mZUJw) or sexting ugly women. Also, he does not bring his daddy into the locker room after games to complain to the coaches and media, which I'm sure Gruden will appreciate.

The real reason for all the excuses and nonsense supporting RGIII is what Smoke mentioned to me on Twitter; the trade. The Foreskins essentially mortgaged their future to draft the Cornball Brother, and at the time the fans did their level best to convince others (but really, themselves) that the trade was actually a great one, when anyone with some sense and no garnet and gold glasses knew that it was at best a major risk and at worst a total disaster waiting to happen (http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpr...ng-the-redskins-trade-for-robert-griffin-iii/). This wave of support and spin is still trying to justify that horrible trade more than 2 years later, plain and simple.
 
It really was a horrendous trade. Thank God there was one guy dumber than Holmgren at the time, Browns were hot for RGIII. We got Trent Richardson instead, phew.
 
dudleysdad said:
Like kordell
Click to expand...

if you would like to make a wager with me on quarterbacks of the future, i would be glad to if you wanna just be a sarcastic twat then that is fine too.

obviously i am not a scout or a gm or anybody with any significance at all in terms of what i think, but i do have a good history of evaluating qbs. sure i am wrong sometimes. i still dont think i am WRONG about rg3, he just cant stay on the field. also at least jgalt rips my opinions but then provides his own. what substance have you added to either conversation?
 
B.A.R. said:
Cue Uncle Galt v Nurda...:pillow:
Click to expand...

No. You kids have worn out Uncle Galtie with all your nonsense. I'm getting older and tired of repeating myself over and over again that guys who run circus offenses their whole amateur careers are not adequately prepared to play in the pros. And when you give me the "well the offense should change FOR THEM so they can recklessly run around and make exciting SportsCenter plays!!!!" I will sit by quietly for the day when they try to pull that off and JJ Watt chases them down, rips their head off and eats it like an apple on the field.

No mas unless Urda pays me some of that tout money he's raking in.
 
tipyerbartender said:
It really was a horrendous trade. Thank God there was one guy dumber than Holmgren at the time, Browns were hot for RGIII. We got Trent Richardson instead, phew.
Click to expand...

yup. even as an rg3 guy, it ws just ridiculous to give up that much. that and the ricky williams trade were teh 2 worst i have seen in my lifetime
 
J Galt said:
No. You kids have worn out Uncle Galtie with all your nonsense. I'm getting older and tired of repeating myself over and over again that guys who run circus offenses their whole amateur careers are not adequately prepared to play in the pros. And when you give me the "well the offense should change FOR THEM so they can recklessly run around and make exciting SportsCenter plays!!!!" I will sit by quietly for the day when they try to pull that off and JJ Watt chases them down, rips their head off and eats it like an apple on the field.

No mas unless Urda pays me some of that tout money he's raking in.
Click to expand...

jj watt can crush any qb though. he could knock andrew luck out for the year. he could bend his leg joe theismann style. it could happen to anyone from luck to peyton manning. I don't think you can bank on an injury as a reason not to like a guy. mariota's 10x the passer rg3 was anyway though. i dont think hes gonna be a gimmick running qb, i think hes just going to be able to run when necessary. I think hes a better version of Kaepernick
 
tipyerbartender said:
Kaep's got sprinter speed, different gear.
Click to expand...

he also makes poor decisions and seems to be drinking his own cool aid. I don't dislike him, I just don't think hes a finished product as a qb, and if he thinks he is and stops learning and evolving, then its going to be an issue.
 
Yeah, and he's bigger, and has a better arm, etc. Mariota looks like a track star running around in that spread but he runs a 4.6.

Also no one spent the #1 overall pick on Kaep. I think Mariota would be worth the investment in round 2 or 3, but # 1 overall? No way, you want to be drafting a guy that you are pretty damn sure about at that slot. MM is far from a sure thing, he's like more of a project to me.
 
J Galt said:
Of course you don't because you don't take into consideration situations, types of offense guys played in college in, durability, etc. You have the Dan Urda Stat, 40 Time, and Heisman Trophy QB Rating System. We take different approaches in our evaluations, and I think we can go ahead and leave it at that.

Btw I don't think anyone is saying that Cousins in the next Dan Marino. What I have been saying for the last 2+ seasons now is that Cousins is a better NFL QB than RGIII. He can make all the throws, is poised in the pocket, and does not waste any of his time in the offseason making horrible rap videos (http://youtu.be/iAYJ00mZUJw) or sexting ugly women. Also, he does not bring his daddy into the locker room after games to complain to the coaches and media, which I'm sure Gruden will appreciate.

The real reason for all the excuses and nonsense supporting RGIII is what Smoke mentioned to me on Twitter; the trade. The Foreskins essentially mortgaged their future to draft the Cornball Brother, and at the time the fans did their level best to convince others (but really, themselves) that the trade was actually a great one, when anyone with some sense and no garnet and gold glasses knew that it was at best a major risk and at worst a total disaster waiting to happen (http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpr...ng-the-redskins-trade-for-robert-griffin-iii/). This wave of support and spin is still trying to justify that horrible trade more than 2 years later, plain and simple.
Click to expand...

Cousins is not the better QB.

563-889 63.3% 6,708 yards, 7.55 ypa, 36 td, 17 int 91.8 rating
136-236 57.6%, 1,570 yards 6.65 ypa 10 td, 10 int 74.3 rating

RG3's Dad did not come to the locker to argue with coaches for what it's worth. He came in and check to see how injured RG3 was, but that type of headline doesn't sell as many newspapers as RG3's Dad in locker room, arguing with coaches.

The Skins certainly gave up to much to move up. However, they do not have a division title in 2012 (first in a decade) without the trade. People simply cannot judge RG3 without considering the trade, which RG3 didn't have control over. Gave up too much for sure, but how many of those guys would even play for the Skins right now?

Brockers- At least would play
Jenkins- backup
Pead- Wouldn't make team
Watkins- Wouldn't make team
Ogletree- Backup
Bailey- Wouldn't make team
Stacy- Backup
Robinson-Probably starter
 
J Galt said:
Yeah, and he's bigger, and has a better arm, etc. Mariota looks like a track star running around in that spread but he runs a 4.7.

Also no one spent the #1 overall pick on Kaep. I think Mariota would be worth it the investment in round 2 or 3, but # 1 overall? No way, you want to be drafting a guy that you are pretty damn sure about at that slot. MM is far from a sure thing, he's like more of a project to me.
Click to expand...


I think its generally believed that if kaeps draft was re-done hed be a top 10 pick. Idk when MM is going to go, im sure it depends on need of the teams in the order. Do you take Jameis the rapist over him? I go MM 1. And just to show you that I don't just jump on every gimmick qbs nuts, i am not a big bryce petty fan at all
 
dollaz are you a skins fan? just wondering. i agree with a lot of what you said, just not that the trade is defendable. but your points about rg3 are accurate. just wondering if htat is your home team
 
Schrute said:
He does have all that but has he shown the ability to throw in tight windows? I'm not sure he's shown that he can do that. I'm not saying he won't be a solid NFL QB because like you said above he does have a ton of the measureables but the ability to make quick, accurate decisions and throws is something he's not really been tested on yet. His stat lines against Stanford haven't been nearly as great as they have been against other opponents

2012 21-37 207 1-1
2013 20-34 250 2-0 solid but not the crazy stats he puts up against other teams

He hasn't had a nightmare game but I'm not sure he's a guaranteed superstar. I've never really seem him throw the out to the strong side of the field on 3rd and 4 where the receiver turns around and the ball hits him in the chest. I haven't seen him throw the slant on 3rd and 3 with the defender draped on the WR and a tight pocket where the ball must be placed. It's certainly fun to watch him play but his superstar status will be determined by whether or not he can make the above throws
Click to expand...

yes Ihave seen him hit a WR running in stride 3o yds down the seem with no DB within 5 yds of him. I have seen him hit the little bubble pass and the guy break it for 60 yds, not much of seeing him step up into a pass rush and hit a 18 yd out with a CB right on him. the tight window thing.
 
You learned your lesson with RGIII, that's why. Also Petty doesn't run real fast.

I take Famous Jameis all day over Mariota. Plays in a pro style offense, is poised in the pocket, looks to throw the ball exclusively unless he has to scramble, and appears to be smart on the field (off the field is a whole different story). He comes with risks as well but he has a much much better chance at being successful at the next level than MM. Not even close IMO
 
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