Michigan cheating…

s--k said:
The NFL has "advance scouts" which will attend games of upcoming opponents to make observations on any number of things to assist in the gameplan and prep for an upcoming matchup. I really don't see anything wrong with it. I don't know the wording of the NCAA rule, but I assume it is a fairness and competitive advantage concern. If one team or collection of team wants to pay some person or people to travel and attend games of future opponents, that might not be something that every school is able to afford or justify the expense. So rather than having some teams do it and not have all teams able to do it they just do not allow it. Rules are rules, if that is what they did and it is against the rules, then there should be some penalty for it. Actually I don't think there should a rule about advance scouting and if those scouts pick up on, decipher and teach their own team signals, tendecies, personell groupings, formations, etc - so be it. If the NCAA has a rule against it for the reason I am assuming they do, then I can understand why that is their position. I just don't really see an issue with it. Everything is an arms race anyway, let them pay people to go scout games, who cares.
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I honestly never even knew such a rule existed.

But it is a rule and this is clearly a thing so...
 
I also didn't know back in the day that players weren't allowed to sell their personal memorabilia so life is all about learning fun new things!

I don't recall anyone taking an issue when that story took over the entire sports world for months on end. As well as severe repercussions that occurred as a result.
 
AliShaheed said:
I also didn't know back in the day that players weren't allowed to sell their personal memorabilia so life is all about learning!

I don't recall anyone taking an issue when that story took over the entire sports world for months on end. As well as severe repercussions.
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OJ figured it out fast
 
AliShaheed said:
I also didn't know back in the day that players weren't allowed to sell their personal memorabilia so life is all about learning fun new things!

I don't recall anyone taking an issue when that story took over the entire sports world for months on end. As well as severe repercussions that occurred as a result.
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Is that about gold pants? Player eligibility is one thing, but I think it got as big as it did because the head coach (Tressel) covered it up.
 
s--k said:
Is that about gold pants? Player eligibility is one thing, but I think it got as big as it did because the head coach (Tressel) covered it up.
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Tressel didn't report it. Either way the players were getting suspended because rules are rules however goofy they may be.
 
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AliShaheed said:
Tressel didn't report it. Either way the players were getting suspended because rules are rules however goofy they may be.
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Right, that was a bad rule and this issue in Michigan I think is probably a bad rule too. Breaking rules should have consequences and if we or they or whomever doesn't like that they they should push to change the rule.
 
s--k said:
Right, that was a bad rule and this issue in Michigan I think is probably a bad rule too. Breaking rules should have consequences and if we or they or whomever doesn't like that they they should push to change the rule.
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I’m *guessing* there’s more to this rule that a non-coach like myself would understand. It’s been around for a long time and I would assume for a reason. It clearly ruffled the feathers of other coaches in the conference and action was taken against the UM staffer in question. Will wait to see to get the full story of what exactly happened here.
 
Last edited:
KJ said:
But since teams change their signs every game why would any of this matter?
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Because the good code breakers crack the tweaked signals on the fly. This is exactly why in-person 'scouting' has been against the rules for the past 30 years.

Clemson supposedly did their sign stealing legally, while Michigan appears to have taken the 'what are you gonna do about it' approach.

Piece on Clemson's sign stealing from SI in 2020 that discusses breaking the codes in mid-game:

https://www.si.com/college/2020/11/06/clemson-signal-stealing-dabo-swinney-daily-cover
 
AliShaheed said:
They broke NCAAA rules and went to extreme lengths to pull all this off for something that wouldn't yield any advantage?
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I was just responding to an earlier post

Of course they were trying everything they could to get an advantage, if that bit about Stalions is true, it's very damning
 
Deion Sanders is right……..you still have to play the game and try to stop it……..pretty sure there’s others doing it too……
 
Anything to get teams to stop showing pictures like if the players are 6 years old and to huddle quickly should be encouraged. Michigan should be rewarded!
 
brewers888 said:
In all seriousness this story is a bunch of nothing.
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You may be right, but I have a feeling there is more to this. And it keeps getting deeper and deeper. Now, how involved or knowledgeable Harbaugh was…who knows.

Add to the fact that Harbaugh is coming off of a self-imposed suspension for violations, and let’s not forget they shit-canned their offensive coordinator just 9 months ago for violations as well.

You know what they say about smoke…
 
emg2525 said:
You may be right, but I have a feeling there is more to this. And it keeps getting deeper and deeper. Now, how involved or knowledgeable Harbaugh was…who knows.

Add to the fact that Harbaugh is coming off of a self-imposed suspension for violations, and let’s not forget they shit-canned their offensive coordinator just 9 months ago for violations as well.

You know what they say about smoke…
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Lot of smoke. This story is boring. Let's move on....
 
Michigan is fuckkkked. Washington Post article.




The sign-stealing investigation threatening to disrupt Michigan’s football season began after an outside investigative firm approached the NCAA with documents and videos the firm said it had obtained from computer drives maintained and accessed by multiple Michigan coaches, according to two people familiar with the matter, evidence that suggests the scandal’s impact could broaden beyond the suspension of one low-level assistant.
These people spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about an ongoing NCAA investigation. They did not disclose who hired the outside firm that approached the NCAA. The NCAA, the Big Ten and Michigan declined to comment.

Last week, the Big Ten confirmed published reports that the NCAA was investigating allegations that Michigan had sent people connected to its football program to attend the games of opponents and videotape coaches as they signaled in plays, in violation of the rules that govern college football. Michigan suspended Connor Stalions, a football assistant ESPN reported was suspected of overseeing the alleged sign-stealing operation. Coach Jim Harbaugh, in a statement, denied any knowledge of or involvement in any such scheme.

While NCAA rules do not explicitly prohibit sign-stealing — the practice of decoding signals opposing coaches use to send in play calls to players on the field — the organization does ban video-recording opposing coaches, as well as in-person scouting of upcoming opponents. And according to the investigation conducted by this outside firm, Michigan football has been utilizing a sign-stealing operation involving both in-person scouting as well as video-recording coaches, these people said, since at least last season, when the team went 13-1, winning a second consecutive Big Ten title before losing in the College Football Playoff semifinals.

The outside firm’s investigation began this season, these people said, and involved interviews with people knowledgeable about Michigan football’s scouting operations, as well as reviewing documents and videos related to sign-stealing efforts. Last Tuesday, these people said, this firm presented its evidence to top NCAA officials. The next day, the Big Ten later confirmed, the NCAA informed both the conference and Michigan that it had opened an investigation.

Perspective: Michigan’s sign-stealing operation is a college football scandal to savor
Stalions played a major role in overseeing and coordinating sign-stealing efforts, the outside investigation found, but the firm’s evidence suggested he wasn’t acting alone. The outside firm did not present any evidence directly linking Harbaugh to the sign-stealing operation, according to the people with knowledge. In the days since Stalions’ name circulated as a key figure in the investigation, videos and photos circulated on social media taken during Michigan games, showing him standing near coaches including the team’s defensive and co-offensive coordinators.

Among the pieces of evidence the firm presented, these people said, was a detailed schedule of Michigan’s planned sign-stealing travel for the rest of this season, listing opponents’ schedules, which games Michigan scouts would attend, and how much money was budgeted for travel and tickets to scout each team.

The opponents targeted the most on this schedule, these people said, were not surprising. Atop the list was Ohio State, Michigan’s top rival in the Big Ten, and scouts planned to attend as many as eight games, costing more than $3,000 in travel and tickets. Next on the list was Georgia, a potential Michigan opponent in the College Football Playoff, with four or five games scheduled for in-person scouting and video-recording, also costing more than $3,000 in travel and tickets.

In total, these people said, Michigan’s sign-stealing operation expected to spend more than $15,000 this season sending scouts to more than 40 games played by 10 opponents. According to the university’s public salary disclosure records, Stalions, listed as an administrative specialist in the athletics department, made $55,000 in 2022.

Stalions did not reply to a message left at a phone number listed to him seeking comment. Stalions is a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy and a captain in the U.S. Marine Corps who started working as an analyst for Michigan football last season, according to a profile from January 2022 published on the website Soldiers To Sidelines.

The outside firm also presented to NCAA officials photographs of people investigators believed to be Michigan scouts in action — including current students interning with the football team. The photos showed these people seated at games of Michigan opponents this season, aiming their cellphones at the sidelines. Days later, the outside firm told the NCAA, cellphone videos depicting the coaching staffs from these games were uploaded to a computer drive maintained and accessed by Stalions as well as several other Michigan assistants and coaches.

No timeline has been disclosed for when the NCAA could conclude its investigation. Harbaugh, in his statement, said he and his staff will “fully cooperate” with the NCAA investigation. The news came just months after an earlier NCAA investigation of Michigan concluded with a finding that Harbaugh violated recruiting rules and failed to cooperate with investigators. The university suspended Harbaugh for three games at the beginning of this season as a result.

On the field, Michigan again is competing for a national title under Harbaugh, with an 8-0 record. Last Saturday, the team’s first game since allegations of sign-stealing emerged, Michigan thrashed Michigan State, 49-0. Currently on a bye week, the Wolverines’ next game is at home against Purdue on Nov. 4.

Will Hobson is a national sports reporter for The Washington Post. He has previously worked for the Tampa Bay Times, the Daytona Beach News-Journal, and the Panama City News Herald. Twitter
 
HUNT said:
Michigan is fuckkkked. Washington Post article.




The sign-stealing investigation threatening to disrupt Michigan’s football season began after an outside investigative firm approached the NCAA with documents and videos the firm said it had obtained from computer drives maintained and accessed by multiple Michigan coaches, according to two people familiar with the matter, evidence that suggests the scandal’s impact could broaden beyond the suspension of one low-level assistant.
These people spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about an ongoing NCAA investigation. They did not disclose who hired the outside firm that approached the NCAA. The NCAA, the Big Ten and Michigan declined to comment.

Last week, the Big Ten confirmed published reports that the NCAA was investigating allegations that Michigan had sent people connected to its football program to attend the games of opponents and videotape coaches as they signaled in plays, in violation of the rules that govern college football. Michigan suspended Connor Stalions, a football assistant ESPN reported was suspected of overseeing the alleged sign-stealing operation. Coach Jim Harbaugh, in a statement, denied any knowledge of or involvement in any such scheme.

While NCAA rules do not explicitly prohibit sign-stealing — the practice of decoding signals opposing coaches use to send in play calls to players on the field — the organization does ban video-recording opposing coaches, as well as in-person scouting of upcoming opponents. And according to the investigation conducted by this outside firm, Michigan football has been utilizing a sign-stealing operation involving both in-person scouting as well as video-recording coaches, these people said, since at least last season, when the team went 13-1, winning a second consecutive Big Ten title before losing in the College Football Playoff semifinals.

The outside firm’s investigation began this season, these people said, and involved interviews with people knowledgeable about Michigan football’s scouting operations, as well as reviewing documents and videos related to sign-stealing efforts. Last Tuesday, these people said, this firm presented its evidence to top NCAA officials. The next day, the Big Ten later confirmed, the NCAA informed both the conference and Michigan that it had opened an investigation.

Perspective: Michigan’s sign-stealing operation is a college football scandal to savor
Stalions played a major role in overseeing and coordinating sign-stealing efforts, the outside investigation found, but the firm’s evidence suggested he wasn’t acting alone. The outside firm did not present any evidence directly linking Harbaugh to the sign-stealing operation, according to the people with knowledge. In the days since Stalions’ name circulated as a key figure in the investigation, videos and photos circulated on social media taken during Michigan games, showing him standing near coaches including the team’s defensive and co-offensive coordinators.

Among the pieces of evidence the firm presented, these people said, was a detailed schedule of Michigan’s planned sign-stealing travel for the rest of this season, listing opponents’ schedules, which games Michigan scouts would attend, and how much money was budgeted for travel and tickets to scout each team.

The opponents targeted the most on this schedule, these people said, were not surprising. Atop the list was Ohio State, Michigan’s top rival in the Big Ten, and scouts planned to attend as many as eight games, costing more than $3,000 in travel and tickets. Next on the list was Georgia, a potential Michigan opponent in the College Football Playoff, with four or five games scheduled for in-person scouting and video-recording, also costing more than $3,000 in travel and tickets.

In total, these people said, Michigan’s sign-stealing operation expected to spend more than $15,000 this season sending scouts to more than 40 games played by 10 opponents. According to the university’s public salary disclosure records, Stalions, listed as an administrative specialist in the athletics department, made $55,000 in 2022.

Stalions did not reply to a message left at a phone number listed to him seeking comment. Stalions is a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy and a captain in the U.S. Marine Corps who started working as an analyst for Michigan football last season, according to a profile from January 2022 published on the website Soldiers To Sidelines.

The outside firm also presented to NCAA officials photographs of people investigators believed to be Michigan scouts in action — including current students interning with the football team. The photos showed these people seated at games of Michigan opponents this season, aiming their cellphones at the sidelines. Days later, the outside firm told the NCAA, cellphone videos depicting the coaching staffs from these games were uploaded to a computer drive maintained and accessed by Stalions as well as several other Michigan assistants and coaches.

No timeline has been disclosed for when the NCAA could conclude its investigation. Harbaugh, in his statement, said he and his staff will “fully cooperate” with the NCAA investigation. The news came just months after an earlier NCAA investigation of Michigan concluded with a finding that Harbaugh violated recruiting rules and failed to cooperate with investigators. The university suspended Harbaugh for three games at the beginning of this season as a result.

On the field, Michigan again is competing for a national title under Harbaugh, with an 8-0 record. Last Saturday, the team’s first game since allegations of sign-stealing emerged, Michigan thrashed Michigan State, 49-0. Currently on a bye week, the Wolverines’ next game is at home against Purdue on Nov. 4.

Will Hobson is a national sports reporter for The Washington Post. He has previously worked for the Tampa Bay Times, the Daytona Beach News-Journal, and the Panama City News Herald. Twitter
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With today’s technology, these dudes still uses phones to record openly? Making it so obvious?

Can’t they afford some better technology?

Pretty sure there’s others that are smarter at this than Mic shit gan…….

Don’t know how to cheat…..smh…….
 
Inspekdah said:
Anything to get teams to stop showing pictures like if the players are 6 years old and to huddle quickly should be encouraged. Michigan should be rewarded!
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Right. Teams can huddle if they think their picture pages with Bill Cosby is getting “hacked” and figured out. They can also change their pictures/signals game to game. There are 2 easy ways to stop something that isn’t even against the rules to begin with.

Even further, the NCAA could simply allow teams to use headsets for the QB, just like they do in the NFL. Brian Kelly just said something about it, and said it was silly they don’t use the technology that exists.

That is THREE different ways this “problem” could become a thing of the past. Two of them are on the teams themselves…if they’re so worried about it, change something instead of whining about it. The final one is on the NCAA to join the 21st century and let the schools use the existing technology.
 
Predictions on Michigan Punishment ???

My prediction.

- They will be forced to vacate some or all wins from 2021 and 2022

- They will lose 5 or scholarships per season for two years

- Harbaugh will be suspended the first 3 games next season (just like he was this season for other offenses)

and that's it.

i am reading predictions of Harbaugh getting shitt-canned (I do not see this happening)

i am reading predictions of the entire staff getting shown the door (again, do not see this happening)

and also a postseason ban this season (again, do not see this)


and i am completely missing the mark on this ?

so many coaches and sports media (outside of buckeye nation) seem to think this is much ado about nothing.
 
Why didn't Ohio just change their signs before the game against them in a few weeks so they would have an advantage for at least the beginning of the game until Mich figured out they were using different signals instead of setting up an "outside investigative firm" and sending this info to the NCAA?

Or it could just be concerned citizens making sure college football is a pure sport.
 
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