LIV Tour
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KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
I actually require an appearance fee to go to Tucson!
Bryson sure looks good.
Long, but good read.
firepitcollective.com
LIV Golf's Growing Pains
After a lively players meeting in Tucson, the upstart tour's business model continues to evolve
firepitcollective.com
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
I give them credit, this is exactly what the average joe needed to understand how ridiculous sports entertainment has becomeLong, but good read.
LIV Golf's Growing Pains
After a lively players meeting in Tucson, the upstart tour's business model continues to evolve
Joes really laugh at this and it probably reflects on other sports in the long run
LIV Golf Strips Broadcast Crews' Healthcare, Other Benefits Despite $1 Billion In Projected Spending - IATSE
TUSCON, AZ — Broadcast workers are integral to the success of every sports production and take pride in their work to bring quality content to audiences worldwide. However, many behind-the-scenes […]
iatse.net
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
Next thing you know it will be illegal to bang a hookerLIV Golf Strips Broadcast Crews' Healthcare, Other Benefits Despite $1 Billion In Projected Spending - IATSE
TUSCON, AZ — Broadcast workers are integral to the success of every sports production and take pride in their work to bring quality content to audiences worldwide. However, many behind-the-scenes […]
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
Shipnuck finally wrote an article without the term "sportwashing" in it. Guess even he could see where the Formula One teams were running this weekend, and ESPN didn't cancel their coverage, go figure.LIV Golf Strips Broadcast Crews' Healthcare, Other Benefits Despite $1 Billion In Projected Spending - IATSE
TUSCON, AZ — Broadcast workers are integral to the success of every sports production and take pride in their work to bring quality content to audiences worldwide. However, many behind-the-scenes […]
I think it's vital for the players to buy into the team aspect, and it was good to hear Cam Smith being vocal about it. And the players having equity in the teams is going to help with perceptions about the competition aspect. These guys aren't just floating through exhibitions. They need to be competitive in the team aspect to keep the balance sheet above water. That's a different kind of pressure than the Tour players have, and perhaps even greater pressure than the upper echelon players have with their new revenue streams from PIP and the new select events. Very interesting.
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
Outside of soccer and cricket Formula 1 is the most popular sport in the word
Comparing LIV golf to that is x level hilarious. It's golf...LIV curling would likely net the same viewership
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
You do understand that Formula 1 ran this weekend in Saudi Arabia for the 3rd straight year, right? That was my first point. Had nothing to do with popularity, other than even the most popular sports in the world do business with the Saudis, and after a short initial burst of negative press coverage year 1 nobody gives it much thought thereafter. LIV is already the same in that regard. Now they have to survive and grow on their own merits. A whole separate discussion with many chapters yet to be written.
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
I partake as a fan of Man City and shuffle off dues every year to the club, UAE owned
I find it hard to compare SA to UAE though, they are night and day
When it comes to F1, I doubt that 95%+ of the Amercian sports fan even know it exists which is odd for such a money grabbing sport. Curious the responses if you asked in a crowd who Sergio Perez is...not really curious, we know the answers.
LIV is worse than that. Trying to buy their way out of shitty publicity is rightfully getting them shitty publicity. These are the dregs of the sport of golf who think they're more important than the sport itself. Hate to see it, the regret for some is already there. We don't, as a species, enjoy that sport for the millions they make, we enjoy it because many can relate. This is a gong show, and they aren't relatable.
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
And Paulina, you respect that
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
European!
This experiment is failing and I think LIV officially goes under within the next two years.
I’m a 34 year old addicted golfer..I imagine the exact target audience for LIV. The production is so poor..it’s actually hard to believe. The last two events I tuned in on Sunday..could barely keep it on for more than 5 minutes. The announcers have no life and their commentary is useless. The players don’t seem to care as much and the competitive spirit is lacking. The graphics are terrible. Most importantly..I looked at the leaderboard on Sunday..and almost died laughing. With all due respect, I don’t think anyone in the world cares about watching Danny Lee and Brendan Steele battle it out. Or Carlos Ortiz. This league desperately needs their top tier players competing, and one of these guys are playing well. The team aspect feels so forced and corny. The names are bad enough, but why are guys spraying champagne one eachother when one guy just finished +5? It feels fake. I could say so much more but no one care about me ranting. Just a brutal product that is destined to fail.
I’m a 34 year old addicted golfer..I imagine the exact target audience for LIV. The production is so poor..it’s actually hard to believe. The last two events I tuned in on Sunday..could barely keep it on for more than 5 minutes. The announcers have no life and their commentary is useless. The players don’t seem to care as much and the competitive spirit is lacking. The graphics are terrible. Most importantly..I looked at the leaderboard on Sunday..and almost died laughing. With all due respect, I don’t think anyone in the world cares about watching Danny Lee and Brendan Steele battle it out. Or Carlos Ortiz. This league desperately needs their top tier players competing, and one of these guys are playing well. The team aspect feels so forced and corny. The names are bad enough, but why are guys spraying champagne one eachother when one guy just finished +5? It feels fake. I could say so much more but no one care about me ranting. Just a brutal product that is destined to fail.
Interesting that the lower tier guys are the most competitive so far. Basically the ones who didn't get big money up front.
Danny Lee missed 37 of 56 previous cuts on Tour. Good for him. He found an easier space, with less pressure and is able to cash in.
Agree with most of this post.
I'll try and tune in next event to give a full review. I'm still at 10 mins watching on YT last year. It wasn't much to write home about.
On another note, wtf happened to Phil? No, not the subpar golf. He looks 10 years older than a year ago and a bit TOO slim. Is their a health issue? He doesn't look well at all.
Bar, Phil looks like a recovering heroin addict. Really weird.
Cannot wait to read about him in the Billy Walters book.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
In fairness, the leaderboard at the Valspar wasn't exactly a bunch of big names either. In one regard, LIV served it's purpose to force the PGA Tour to change the way it does things. It's not perfect, but the designated events or whatever they are calling them have been a pretty big hit so far. I hope it continues and that they rotate venues so it's not just the same events each year getting these monster fields. I am intrigued by the team aspect from LIV, and would like to see that play out. Maybe there's a place for that on Tour once LIV folds? I also want to see the PGA Tour open up some kind of window for LIV guys to come back. If they could get a few key names, it would certainly speed up the death of LIV. Definitely have some kind of "penalty" for leaving, but otherwise have a path back. Maybe the membership could vote on who it accepts back, so they don't have to let Bryson and P Reed back lol
RBTrojan
A Child of Aliens
Valspar did happen to fall between The Players and match play events, so the lack of star power was expected…
Designated events are changing each year, although I'm sure a few will always be part of it.
Jack hinted that Pebble will be next year (I believe the pro am aspect will be altered) and Phoenix will NOT be for instance.
I can't see Harbour Town and Hartford being yearly designated events just due to position on calendar. I can't imagine the players would have agreed to playing week after Majors every year.
As far as team events. Sure, the your could add something other than their New Orleans event. I guess the weird thing about the LIV one is a team winning with a guy shooting +5 or 6. I dunno. Now that they aren't getting the money (the winnings go towards the team), is the incentive there? That article I posted above kind of talks about that.
I'm curious what else LIV does on the fly this year. Certainly, the extra 4 events aren't making some guys happy.
Well done.
Tiger and Freddy just going to be staring guys down.
Then Gary Player is going to take each one out back and beat their asses individually.
RBTrojan
A Child of Aliens
Gary Player is amazing… he’s in better shape than most 40 year olds…
I actually think this is the beauty of the PGA tour right now. Valspar’s field wasn’t filled with big names, and it was still an awesome tourney with a fun/nerve wracking finish. You had Spieth going for 1st playing like an absolute wildcard. Fleetwood trying to get his first win in ages. Schenk needing a par on 18, feeling the pressure, and having to go lefty for a shot. Taylor Moore winning it was an awesome ending.
Meanwhile..LIV had a playoff and literally no one cared. Remember when PGA had a playoff a few weeks ago with Kirk and Cole facing off? Such an enormous difference.
Exactly why LIV has scheduled their events like they have.
Their first three events are all opposite weaker PGA fields.
Looking ahead....
Vs Zurich in NOLA.
Vs Mexico Open
Vs Byron Nelson (sandwiched between Quail Hollow and PGA Championship)
Vs Colonial (sandwiched between PGA and Memorial)
Vs Rocket Mortgage (which follows US Open and Elevated Hartford event)
Vs John Deere (weak event as most head over for Scottish then The Open the following two weeks)
Vs Wyndham (week before playoffs start)
Vs St Jude (the first event to go against a big PGA event in 2023).
Liv then plays week before Ryder Cup and has their closing event in October.
So, the first true litmus test will be in August as the FedEx playoffs start. Otherwise, LIV picked the weakest part of the PGA schedule for their events. Smart. This gives them a fighting chance.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
Good to hear on the events changing. They need to do something to save that Pebble event.
I'm talking more about actual teams, than team events. I don't think you can recreate the Ryder Cup or even Pres Cup, but a season long team aspect is intriguing to me. Like if my favorite player is Scheffler, I may pay attention to the lesser known guys on his team. Not sure it could work, but it sounds more interesting to me than the Trackman league they're about to start
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
Right. But the criticism we hear about LIV is the no-names winning, when it happens with regularity on the PGA Tour. I don't care about LIV, probably never will, I was just pointing out that outside the more exclusive fields, there's always a chance that some no names get it together for 4 days and can beat the best in the world. One of the greatest things about golf vs any other professional sport
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
It's definitely their best path to success. I think it was you that linked that article about the match play going away, I thought it was interesting at the end of that article when it mentioned that the guy who runs the Houston Open (and owns the Astros), that if the PGA Tour doesn't move his event to the spring like it used to be, he will consider moving the event to LIV. I could see LIV targeting the tournaments on the PGA Tour that didn't get and won't get designated/elevated status. Those tournaments are expensive to run, and I could see sponsors not wanting to pay that much for a bunch of has-beens and Korn Ferry guys. Would instantly give LIV more credibility if they had for instance, the Honda Open
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
I'm also amazed that a tournament like Las Vegas hasn't required the move, to have your only Vegas tournament in the fall is borderline scandalous. Obviously Houston could slide right in to where the match play goes now.
As I understand, there are 5 elevated events/season and players can only skip 1 unless it's due to injury (Rory skipped Maui, I don't think it should be elevated anyway but that assures his appearance at the other 4 which is great, don't think he'd ever played Phx before). I also can't see them holding so many of them so close together, haven't we had 4 already?
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
It's more than 5, right? So far we've had:
Sentry
Phoenix
Riviera
Bay Hill
Traveler's and Harbor Town also are elevated right? Memorial too? I know the schedule will change next year, so maybe that's why it was so front-loaded this season? Or guys didn't want to impinge on their usual major prep? It's funny now that LIV seems less of a threat, some players are back to complaining about having to play so many events
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
Not sure how they treat limited fields like Maui or Match Play, also don't think they consider the Player's as elevated but the purse was the same I think, maybe that way with the Memorial too. Invitationals, no clue how they're treated.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
Maui wasn't an elevated event. Did you mean Kapalua? It was limited and elevated, though not as limited as it was when it was only players that had won the previous season. The first article I found online says there are 17 elevated events this season, but that includes the majors, the Players, and the FedEx cup playoffs, so 9 "regular" tour events are now elevated. Other than the ones mentioned, it includes Wells Fargo and the Match Play. One positive byproduct is potentially the Wyndham will get a boost as the last tournament before the playoffs. With the cutoff at 70 this season, I would think most of the players in that 50-80 range will play, rather than just the guys trying to get into the top 125
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
Well Kapalua is Maui, you might be thinking the Sony which is on Oahu, Honolulu. When did they do away with having to win the previous season there though? I know they didn't do a cut and they still call it the Tournament of Champions, not sure what the qualifications are now...world ranking maybe?
Agree with Wyndham, should be much better now...not sure how they count Match Play as elevated with only 64 getting in, it's always been "elevated" as a WGC event in my book, along with majors/Players/Playoffs anyway.
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
As I understand it, team scores are handled on a round by round basis. The two best scores of the first round, the two best scores of the second round, and the three best scores of the final round are all combined to get the aggregate under/over par score. So, a guy shooting +5 for the tournament might shoot +4, -3, +4 for the three rounds, but that -3 might get used as one of the best that day for the team score.
I think NCAA has similar approach, where five guys play each round but only the four best each day count towards the team score.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
I would disagree that you're the target audience, unless you live outside the US, enjoy Formula 1 and played on a college golf team. LIV is going for a more international audience, which is why many of the teams feature specific groupings of international players. US will probably lag behind other parts of the world for some time in terms of popularity, much like Formula 1. Understanding the team element of college golf gives a greater appreciation for LIV's attempt to create a professional franchise version for golf.
That’s not wrong but it’s not really an apples to apples conversation. The dudes on liv have already changed their lives and are well paid regardless and are included in all the exhibition liv events or whatever they are called. The criticism I have for liv now is that the obvious best players (atleast so far this year) aren’t even on the radar which to me shows the motivation isn’t there albeit yet small sample size.
When you get a couple up and comers like Moore vs Schenk or something at the valspar you get family flown in from everywhere for it and as a viewer you see something dramatically changing their careers (good/bad) based on that result whether it be financial or qualifications for bigger events. That stuff matters and will always matter and something I think the pga has and will continue to have even in the non elevated events.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
There are a variety of reasons why the PGA Tour is a better product than LIV. I just thought it was funny when I see folks on Twitter make fun of LIV for Danny Lee winning when they couldn't have told you who Schenk or Moore were before Sunday afternoon. It's on LIV to deliver their product in a way that makes people want to engage in it, and they aren't doing very well so far. I expect it to fold in the next few years, if not sooner. I think they have some good ideas (stolen mostly from the PGL that never got off the ground), and they have made the PGA Tour work on making their product better, which is a good thing. I hope they don't stop trying to innovate once LIV goes under.
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
Danny Lee is 32, Adam Schenk is 31. Schenk has been a pro since 2015.
Taylor Moore is 29 and has been a pro since 2016.
Of the three, the best story by far was Lee who was mercurial as a teen, winning the US amateur at a younger age than Tiger, and a becoming the youngest European Tour winner as an amateur. Then he fell on hard times before resurrecting his career in 2015, winning at the Greenbrier and finishing ninth in FexEx Cup points. He kind of hung on in the periphery for a couple of years and then faded back into the wilderness until resurrecting again this week. That kind of rollercoaster ride makes for a compelling story. GPS_3 is right....Schenk and Moore are and have been unknowns kicking around the minor tours for 7-8 years now. Nice story that they contended this week but it's a dime a dozen for those type. They pop up all the time in the lesser Tour events.
Taylor Moore is 29 and has been a pro since 2016.
Of the three, the best story by far was Lee who was mercurial as a teen, winning the US amateur at a younger age than Tiger, and a becoming the youngest European Tour winner as an amateur. Then he fell on hard times before resurrecting his career in 2015, winning at the Greenbrier and finishing ninth in FexEx Cup points. He kind of hung on in the periphery for a couple of years and then faded back into the wilderness until resurrecting again this week. That kind of rollercoaster ride makes for a compelling story. GPS_3 is right....Schenk and Moore are and have been unknowns kicking around the minor tours for 7-8 years now. Nice story that they contended this week but it's a dime a dozen for those type. They pop up all the time in the lesser Tour events.
Oh yeah for sure i get it on both sides. Little bit of a spiderman meme on that one...LIV media mocking every PGA event without big names at the top. Then followed by LIV targeting every week (as they should) with the weakest PGA fields only then to watch all the LIV studs not care and see CH3 and Danny Lee lap the field (which then leads to the point of your post).
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