LIV Tour

Gandolf said:
Danny Lee is 32, Adam Schenk is 31. Schenk has been a pro since 2015.

Taylor Moore is 29 and has been a pro since 2016.

Of the three, the best story by far was Lee who was mercurial as a teen, winning the US amateur at a younger age than Tiger, and a becoming the youngest European Tour winner as an amateur. Then he fell on hard times before resurrecting his career in 2015, winning at the Greenbrier and finishing ninth in FexEx Cup points. He kind of hung on in the periphery for a couple of years and then faded back into the wilderness until resurrecting again this week. That kind of rollercoaster ride makes for a compelling story. GPS_3 is right....Schenk and Moore are and have been unknowns kicking around the minor tours for 7-8 years now. Nice story that they contended this week but it's a dime a dozen for those type. They pop up all the time in the lesser Tour events.
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No idea why ages came into it but maybe even reinforces my point with families on the line....the point is whether you think it's dime a dozen Schenk or Moore getting a breakthru win on the PGA tour and opening themselves up to a wildly different career moving forward for their families one way or another is more compelling than Lee breaking thru against a bunch of guys that get paid regardless. He gets a pile of $ on top of his pile of $....that's awesome.

One thing I'll agree with is if Lee stuck it out and had that breakthru win on the PGA tour than yes it would be the better story and people would actually be talking about it.
 
PaintCrew said:
Oh yeah for sure i get it on both sides. Little bit of a spiderman meme on that one...LIV media mocking every PGA event without big names at the top. Then followed by LIV targeting every week (as they should) with the weakest PGA fields only then to watch all the LIV studs not care and see CH3 and Danny Lee lap the field (which then leads to the point of your post).
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I'm happy for CH3. That guy grinded out a PGA career by playing nearly every event and making a very nice living on a whole bunch of T-35s.

I'm very interested to see how the LIV guys perform in the majors this year. Not the old farts, but DJ, Cam, Brooks, Bryson and even P Reed. I can see one or two of them making some noise, but if the majority of the guys who are able to compete in those tournaments are non-competitive, I don't see how they attract any young stars moving forward
 
PaintCrew said:
No idea why ages came into it but maybe even reinforces my point with families on the line....the point is whether you think it's dime a dozen Schenk or Moore getting a breakthru win on the PGA tour and opening themselves up to a wildly different career moving forward for their families one way or another is more compelling than Lee breaking thru against a bunch of guys that get paid regardless. He gets a pile of $ on top of his pile of $....that's awesome.

One thing I'll agree with is if Lee stuck it out and had that breakthru win on the PGA tour than yes it would be the better story and people would actually be talking about it.
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Lee didn't get a big signing bonus to join LIV golf. There were some who did, but many of them didn't get a big bonus, some didnt' get any at all from my understanding.
 
gps_3 said:
I'm happy for CH3. That guy grinded out a PGA career by playing nearly every event and making a very nice living on a whole bunch of T-35s.

I'm very interested to see how the LIV guys perform in the majors this year. Not the old farts, but DJ, Cam, Brooks, Bryson and even P Reed. I can see one or two of them making some noise, but if the majority of the guys who are able to compete in those tournaments are non-competitive, I don't see how they attract any young stars moving forward
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Definitely going to be interesting. DJ can win anywhere/anytime probably until he's 55 or so....guy is just different. Cam will be really interesting...i felt like he was so successful not just because he's one of the top 3 talented golfers on the planet (he is) but he finally gave it the time it deserved and was rewarded handsomely for it. One could say Cam could have snagged 2 or 3 majors last year with a bit of chipping luck at Augusta and some average putting at the PGA. Just don't know what to expect from him now without seeing any results that matter. Tough to cap but they both can win.
 
PaintCrew said:
Definitely going to be interesting. DJ can win anywhere/anytime probably until he's 55 or so....guy is just different. Cam will be really interesting...i felt like he was so successful not just because he's one of the top 3 talented golfers on the planet (he is) but he finally gave it the time it deserved and was rewarded handsomely for it. One could say Cam could have snagged 2 or 3 majors last year with a bit of chipping luck at Augusta and some average putting at the PGA. Just don't know what to expect from him now without seeing any results that matter. Tough to cap but they both can win.
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Yes, DJ's talent is so superior to everyone else, except maybe Rory (who is a head case in majors), that he's a threat no matter the circumstances. Cam kind of reminds me of Scheffler in that they both just seem to know how to get the ball in the hole no matter what. Which plays really well at majors when the margins are thin and things don't always go the right way
 
Oh, the "hot takes" and revisionist history will be fun to go through in this thread. Anyone want to voluntarily admit they were wrong and the LIV guys masterfully played the game? Eat that crow, I heard it tastes like chicken.
 
Gandolf said:
Time for Monahan to get to the negotiation table and try to work out an amicable solution. Protect your 20 best tournaments, allow for cross entries, and sue for peace.

Besides the majors, LIV schedule should work around these events in all years:

1-2 Hawaii back to back
3 Torrey Pines
4 Pebble
5 Riviera
6 Bay Hill
7 Sawgrass
8 WGC Match Play
9 Harbour Town
10 Avenel MD
11 Quail Hollow
12 Byron Nelson
13 Colonial
14 Memorial
15 Canadian Open
16-18 3 weeks of FedEx playoffs
19 CJ Cup
20 Zozo Championship
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Posted almost one year ago. I will take my full bow now.
 
I think today's news is pretty hilarious, and probably a long-term benefit to the fans. The only downside is now Patrick Reed has a path back to my TV screens 20 weekends a year
 
A lot of buzz around Rahm being lured to LIV. May be true or just a bargaining chip on the ongoing LIV/PGA merger talks.
 
Gandolf said:
A lot of buzz around Rahm being lured to LIV. May be true or just a bargaining chip on the ongoing LIV/PGA merger talks.
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Yeah, there is something off here.

I'm not saying it won't happen. Although he's got a bucket of statements even this year that contradict this.

But, in the bigger picture, I'd assume the deal is falling apart with PGA and Saudi's. Part of the framework is no poaching.
 
Gandolf said:
Related topic, the joke that is the OWGR. Guy finishes 2nd from the bottom in his own 20 man invitational exhibition and moves up 400+ spots.

golf.com

Tiger Woods rockets up world ranking with near last-place finish

Tiger Woods made a huge leap up the world ranking despite a poor finish at the Hero World Challenge. Here's how much Tiger's ranking improved.
golf.com golf.com
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Strong field and being that low is why. .
If he started the week 200 or so, the move up is much less.
 
The hypocrisy is what's great. They use 54 holes and no cuts as the reason for not giving LIV events points while this one didn't have a cut. I get it, and it's hilarious. The WGC tournaments don't have cuts either but points are still awarded too. Big deal, they don't recognize LIV events as truly professional golf. They could just say that.
 
KJ said:
The hypocrisy is what's great. They use 54 holes and no cuts as the reason for not giving LIV events points while this one didn't have a cut. I get it, and it's hilarious. The WGC tournaments don't have cuts either but points are still awarded too. Big deal, they don't recognize LIV events as truly professional golf. They could just say that.
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That's the easiest and purest thing to say, no doubt.

Don't sugarcoat it.
 
Still not gonna watch and Rahm is probably my favorite golfer. Don't enjoy watching exhibition golf in general.
 
KJ said:
Still not gonna watch and Rahm is probably my favorite golfer. Don't enjoy watching exhibition golf in general.
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Rahm is great, and easily their best addition (need to see Blake do this for a few years).

He's one I doubt falls off as well.

I don't get Cam Smith vibes here.

But, he's a majors player now and exhibition team golf. I'd imagine he'll be fine for Ryder Cup come the next match though.

The surprise with Rahm is due to the NUMEROUS comments he made + his career goals.

Guess we'll see him next defending at Augusta.
 
B.A.R. said:
Rahm is great, and easily their best addition (need to see Blake do this for a few years).

He's one I doubt falls off as well.

I don't get Cam Smith vibes here.

But, he's a majors player now and exhibition team golf. I'd imagine he'll be fine for Ryder Cup come the next match though.

The surprise with Rahm is due to the NUMEROUS comments he made + his career goals.

Guess we'll see him next defending at Augusta.
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He's obviously exempt for all the majors for at least 5 years now so it probably doesn't bother him as much as others

Had a feeling all along that as close as he is to the Mickelsons he'd get tugged in that direction but yeah he won't be saying much til Augusta
 
B.A.R. said:
I'm excited for his first presser, which would be when? Does LIV do these? Or are we waiting for The Masters to hear the questioning?

I do hope that X and Cantlay defect.
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Did you see the tweet that cantlay is basically running the show ar the PGA now?
 
So Rahm really did move, WOW. There's 3 things that changed the dynamic in the past year, well maybe 4.

1) Koepka's play at the Masters and then winning the PGA, and then getting picked for Ryder Cup. Showed LIV isn't by definition the place where old and washed up golfers go to die (granted some do), that you can maintain your ability to compete at the highest levels in the new league.

2) Adelaide - was such a smashing success for LIV and really highlighted what can be done internationally with the league, basically out flanking the Tour. There's a reason most of more recent in their prime defections have been non-US players like Rahm, Smith, Neimman, Perriera, etc.

3) Monahan putting together a framework agreement with the Saudis - suddenly, and basically behind the back of the rank and file players, Monahan stripped away, to quote Pacino, "the last fig leaf". Saudi money isn't blood money? Ohhhh ok.

4) The Tour changing to be more like LIV than the other way around. Designated, no-cut tournaments you're now required to play. Trying to get a team league off the ground. Expanding the PIP to make it basically the Tour's version of signing bonuses. If what LIV is doing is so terrible, why is the Tour borrowing from it?
 
We'll see if Big Jon's ideas to change the format occur. That might help with ratings, although not dramatically -- but would be a start.

Otherwise, pga weakens and LIV still has blah ratings. They'll have the Cam Smith tournament to hang their hats on each year though.

I'll have an interesting thought down the line..
 
Rahm going to LIV makes me think that a merger is imminent. Rory already said that they would have to change the Euro Ryder Cup rules because Rahm will be on the team at Bethpage in 2025. A lot thoughts out there that this may be the event that moves professional golf in the direction they should have been going for years. Especially in a week where guys nobody has ever heard of are publicly complaining about not getting the same treatment as the guys that drive everything in the sport. The "mules" are about to learn a tough lesson about keeping their mouths shut, because I think guys like Rahm, Rory, and others are tired of pulling them along and having them bitch about how good they have it. Have fun on the Korn Ferry tour moving forward.

Hopefully what we get is a more global tour with stops in all parts of the world, with more high quality golfers. Or maybe pro golf goes the way of tennis and nobody cares about the sport outside of 4 tournaments a year. I think the PGA Tour is still too arrogant to be proactive, but the writing is on the wall. Other big names will foloow Rahm if something doesn't happen quickly. They already saw recently that their product is less popular than NASCAR based on the media rights deal.
 
Inspekdah said:
So they didn't merge last year? I thought they did?
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They had a "framework agreement" but the PGA Tour membership was really pissed off and was going to block it. Also think there were some anti-trust issues and the DOJ was getting involved. Basically Monahan put the cart before the horse and had not thought it through. Pretty much like everything he's done since becoming commissioner
 
gps_3 said:
Rahm going to LIV makes me think that a merger is imminent. Rory already said that they would have to change the Euro Ryder Cup rules because Rahm will be on the team at Bethpage in 2025. A lot thoughts out there that this may be the event that moves professional golf in the direction they should have been going for years. Especially in a week where guys nobody has ever heard of are publicly complaining about not getting the same treatment as the guys that drive everything in the sport. The "mules" are about to learn a tough lesson about keeping their mouths shut, because I think guys like Rahm, Rory, and others are tired of pulling them along and having them bitch about how good they have it. Have fun on the Korn Ferry tour moving forward.

Hopefully what we get is a more global tour with stops in all parts of the world, with more high quality golfers. Or maybe pro golf goes the way of tennis and nobody cares about the sport outside of 4 tournaments a year. I think the PGA Tour is still too arrogant to be proactive, but the writing is on the wall. Other big names will foloow Rahm if something doesn't happen quickly. They already saw recently that their product is less popular than NASCAR based on the media rights deal.
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This is exactly how I feel. I’m a super casual. I only watch the big tournaments. Maybe if it’s at a local course.
 
Now Wells Fargo is pulling sponsorship after this year. First Honda last year, now Wells Fargo.

This is going to get away really fast from the PGA Tour. Wells simply says it doesn't want to foot the bill for the Signature Event purses and all the other costs that come along with it. Pretty rough when you can't get one of the largest banks in the world to come along for the ride.
 
Not a big golf guy. Dont play. Watch majors if someone compelling in contention. Youd have to pay me to watch a non major. Was rooting for LIV to fail but looks like opposite now.

But really can care less. To me this is about 200 or so wealthy golfers/executive types arguing over hundreds of millions.

Sucks as i see MBS moving Saudi arabia more into Russia/China orbit and sad they can take over the sport. Putin to me is modern day Hitler and Xi not far behind. And MBS is getting in bed with them. Putin just visited him to discuss oil. And MBS = LIV. Just sad but money will always talk.
 
KJ said:
Now Wells Fargo is pulling sponsorship after this year. First Honda last year, now Wells Fargo.

This is going to get away really fast from the PGA Tour. Wells simply says it doesn't want to foot the bill for the Signature Event purses and all the other costs that come along with it. Pretty rough when you can't get one of the largest banks in the world to come along for the ride.
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PGA Tour leadership and membership (most not all) just don't understand where they sit in the greater sports landscape. And because they now feel like they have to pay their stars more (long overdue) they are still held hostage by the bottom 75% of the membership who get insane benefits despite not doing anything to move the sport forward and reach a larger audience. The tour should honestly just write Tiger $100 million checks every year, because without him, they are fighting for TV rights with the Pickleball and cornhole leagues
 
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Sounds like Finau and Hatton are next to LIV. PGA tour needs to speed up the negotiations to merge with LIV because they’ve lost.
 
gps_3 said:
Sounds like Finau and Hatton are next to LIV. PGA tour needs to speed up the negotiations to merge with LIV because they’ve lost.
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Saudis are playing chess on this against an opponent playing go fish
 
At this point I'm surprised anyone turns it down since the backlash is gone, and you can call out pga hypocrisy

All you have to say is, the pga were/are willing to work with these guys, I'd be crazy to not take 9 figures when chances are I'll still be able to play all the majors currently, and ryder/presidents cups

Only guy who couldnt is rory, just because Phil and the shark would mercilessly call him out
 
Supposedly the deal with PGA and PIF puts a shit ton of money out there to compensate guys that turned down LIV offers. I guess to make them whole and keep them from living on the streets.
 
mrtake said:
Supposedly the deal with PGA and PIF puts a shit ton of money out there to compensate guys that turned down LIV offers. I guess to make them whole and keep them from living on the streets.
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Is this new?

I ask because last week there was a report out that early in negotiations that a 2 billion dollar pool was discussed for the PGA guys -- but whether it was Monahan, Dunne or the players -- that never came to fruition.
 
Read about it when Rahm signed and it sounds like it was discussed before and seems to be in negotiations. A $1 billion fund which is on top of the $2 billion investment initially discussed.

Here's an article but if you google PIF equalization pool you can get a lot more info.
 
guaranteeed said:
At this point I'm surprised anyone turns it down since the backlash is gone, and you can call out pga hypocrisy

All you have to say is, the pga were/are willing to work with these guys, I'd be crazy to not take 9 figures when chances are I'll still be able to play all the majors currently, and ryder/presidents cups

Only guy who couldnt is rory, just because Phil and the shark would mercilessly call him out
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Any public approval the PGA Tour had when LIV started is basically gone, and the interest level in professional golf from a fan perspective is rapidly declining, so the motivation has to be there from the PGA Tour to get something done. The only card the Tour had to play was blocking access to the majors for LIV players, but the majors didn't play along. Now that the Euro tour is allowing LIV players to play and they can accumulate OWGR points, it's over. If the PGA Tour wants to survive, it has to come to terms with LIV/PIF. First step is taking the power away from the "mules" and giving it to the guys who actually bring the crowds out.
 
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