Inside the PGA Tour-PIF negotiations: What does LIV's future hold?
The PGA Tour's negotiations with the PIF are expected to continue into 2024. Here's what we know about LIV's future with the PGA Tour.
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This little media onslaught this week is absolutely hilarious.
These guys signed up for LESS golf and MORE money.
Stop fuckin whining.
I'm not agreeing with the points system but they KNEW what they were getting into.
If you were putting your trust into a snake like Norman, then shame on you.
There is a simple way to qualify for majors, PLAY GOLF. Jacko did just that, won some tournaments outside LIV, and is being recognized by ANGC with an invite.
Simple stuff.
Quit whining Gooch, go play. You'll win on Asian tour and these other LIV offshoots.
You can't always have your cake and eat it too.
The "asterisk" comment is simply laughable. The Masters is an INVITE tournament Taylor, learn your rules and history. You're a very good player, but those wins last year are with 48 man fields, half of which have no chance at winning on any given week. The main competition is 12-15 guys each of the tournaments. This is like a Friday money game at the club. Only, this is big money.
Shout-out to Bryson for all the YouTube stuff. Awesome! I really like that guy again. But then, he's whining about PGA again. You picked your battle bud. Worry about beating YT golfers from the reds first and foremost.
Oh, Rahm. Good grief dude. I really think he thought a merger was imminent and he'd still be able to play some PGA stuff this year. Enjoy the tunes on 6A this week.
One more thing. Credit to LIV for not taking all the easy weeks this year. With that being said, they probably should. That's good for golf fans. Vegas was a bust, even with a Saturday finish. With that being said, there is only one more US event until June. Wow. Masters prep week at Doral though. At least that's a course with some history to maybe attract some viewership? Shall see.
End rant. Sorry, Norman having guys do his bidding this week reminded me all too much of America politics. Gross.
These guys signed up for LESS golf and MORE money.
Stop fuckin whining.
I'm not agreeing with the points system but they KNEW what they were getting into.
If you were putting your trust into a snake like Norman, then shame on you.
There is a simple way to qualify for majors, PLAY GOLF. Jacko did just that, won some tournaments outside LIV, and is being recognized by ANGC with an invite.
Simple stuff.
Quit whining Gooch, go play. You'll win on Asian tour and these other LIV offshoots.
You can't always have your cake and eat it too.
The "asterisk" comment is simply laughable. The Masters is an INVITE tournament Taylor, learn your rules and history. You're a very good player, but those wins last year are with 48 man fields, half of which have no chance at winning on any given week. The main competition is 12-15 guys each of the tournaments. This is like a Friday money game at the club. Only, this is big money.
Shout-out to Bryson for all the YouTube stuff. Awesome! I really like that guy again. But then, he's whining about PGA again. You picked your battle bud. Worry about beating YT golfers from the reds first and foremost.
Oh, Rahm. Good grief dude. I really think he thought a merger was imminent and he'd still be able to play some PGA stuff this year. Enjoy the tunes on 6A this week.
One more thing. Credit to LIV for not taking all the easy weeks this year. With that being said, they probably should. That's good for golf fans. Vegas was a bust, even with a Saturday finish. With that being said, there is only one more US event until June. Wow. Masters prep week at Doral though. At least that's a course with some history to maybe attract some viewership? Shall see.
End rant. Sorry, Norman having guys do his bidding this week reminded me all too much of America politics. Gross.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
The only thing I'll say defending the players on LIV, is that I am pretty sure they were told that they would receive OWGR points in LIV events. Probably safer for them to criticize the OWGR and majors publicly than to go on record against the Kingdom. Hard to play golf with only one hand
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
20 minutes hovering around Paige Spiranac looks like fun......hard to swing a wood with a woodie though.....
mrtake
Looper for takeit
The whining sucks - there are no winners with that crap. Good on these guys that are playing other tourneys to get points, but it really sucks for the grinders in those tourneys that are trying to make a career of it to have to play against a bunch of pros; these are supposed to be feeder tours. You can talk crap about the LIV guys but most of them are damn good golfers, some of the best. Are they all great? No but you can say the same thing for the PGA - 12-15 guys each week that can win it. The field in Mexico was a joke, more than half the names were unrecognizable.
The Hero Challenge gets OWGR points. 20 players and no cut? The elevated events? It's all a money grab anymore and no one can argue any differently.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
This is a good point. The OWGR isn’t giving LIV ranking points because they play 54 hole tourneys and don’t have a cut. It’s seems hypocritical to then give points for the Hero if there isn’t a cut and there’s only 20 players.
I’m not even arguing LIV players should get OWGR points if their reasoning is what it is (54 holes, no cut)…but then you have to stat consistent and now award points if one of those reasons happen during a PGA tournament.
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
It's plenty fair to me to shovel off the dbags, the mindset tells us all we need to know. Be gone and deal with it.
I love how irrelevant it's making them...because without the PGA Tour, they would never be relevant.
Agree.
No points should be awarded for The Hero, at all.
Elevated events are fine, that's at least 65-80 players that goes 72 holes.
OWGR will probably be obselete at some point.
I don't think LIV should receive points. If they would like to go a full 72 and add another say 18-25 players to the league, then why not?
Here is the thing. I know the LIV-bots on SM like to pump up the quality of this league, but I'm sorry, I just do not see it.
There is a lot of 'pork' in this league, much like a bill congress tries to push forward. So much could be trimmed off.
These are the guys that are worth a shit...
Niemann
Bryson
Rahm
DJ
Gooch
Koepka
Ancer
Hatton
Mito
Cam Smith
A few of those guys hardly care.... Cam is living the good life and his gut shows it.... DJ would be fine playing 4 times a year...
The younger guys have something to prove, and Rahm is simply stuck between two lovers right now....
The complete garbage of this league, currently...
Wolff
Phil
AK
Westwood
Poults
Sergio
Chacarra
Samooja
Kaymer
Guys like Leish, Varner, CH3 and Louie are middling although Charles has embraced this pretty well.
I'd be more inclined to watch the top 16 here duel it out 8 times a year, on GREAT courses over 72 holes. That would get my attention!
I don't think LIV should receive points. If they would like to go a full 72 and add another say 18-25 players to the league, then why not?
Here is the thing. I know the LIV-bots on SM like to pump up the quality of this league, but I'm sorry, I just do not see it.
There is a lot of 'pork' in this league, much like a bill congress tries to push forward. So much could be trimmed off.
These are the guys that are worth a shit...
Niemann
Bryson
Rahm
DJ
Gooch
Koepka
Ancer
Hatton
Mito
Cam Smith
A few of those guys hardly care.... Cam is living the good life and his gut shows it.... DJ would be fine playing 4 times a year...
The younger guys have something to prove, and Rahm is simply stuck between two lovers right now....
The complete garbage of this league, currently...
Wolff
Phil
AK
Westwood
Poults
Sergio
Chacarra
Samooja
Kaymer
Guys like Leish, Varner, CH3 and Louie are middling although Charles has embraced this pretty well.
I'd be more inclined to watch the top 16 here duel it out 8 times a year, on GREAT courses over 72 holes. That would get my attention!
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
They are junk
Diluted the talent pool because of greed. Honestly I don't really care to watch the PGA anymore so I guess they succeeded at that
A few talking points that are funny now...
1. Team competition
This has been a flop, all-around. You need to let things like this happen more organically. Everything is staged. People see through that. There is a reason why the PGA has one team event in Louisiana during a slower week on schedule plus the Ryder/Presidents ONLY
2. Growing the game
Now, I will say that a guy like Bryson is embracing the SM/YT aspect of things. His brand is so much better with his personal stuff on YT (playing with Paige and Horvath to name a few). Overall though, have we seen huge crowds other than in Australia? No. They positioned the Vegas tournament vs Phoenix Open and even a Super Bowl bump didn't help. Maybe this week? Dunno. The crowds have been suss to say the least.
3. Golf, but louder
Sure, Greg Norman is loud and when he gives marching orders to the players, they get talkative to the press (way too much whining).
Rahm-bo complaining about the music was incredible for myself. Shuddup bro.
Again, organic...
4. We want to play less
LIV went from 8 events to 14 right away. They want their players in all the majors, so that is 18 right there. Now, many have to play extra events to qualify for the majors and ranking points. The one really embracing this is DJ. That guy just tells it like it is. Rahm badly wants back into a handful of PGA events. I think that he figured he might miss a few months of those events, as he was lied to by Norman like everyone else.
5. Consequences
Most of these guys talked about the consequences as if those would be nothing, because they figured that a lot of what Norman told them would come true.
It hasn't. The fact that we'll never see guys like Garcia, Poulter or Phil captain their teams in Ryder Cups is wild. Just wild. And, sad.
As far as the majors, you can earn your way in. Too many of these guys want something handed to them. Suck it up buttercup.
1. Team competition
This has been a flop, all-around. You need to let things like this happen more organically. Everything is staged. People see through that. There is a reason why the PGA has one team event in Louisiana during a slower week on schedule plus the Ryder/Presidents ONLY
2. Growing the game
Now, I will say that a guy like Bryson is embracing the SM/YT aspect of things. His brand is so much better with his personal stuff on YT (playing with Paige and Horvath to name a few). Overall though, have we seen huge crowds other than in Australia? No. They positioned the Vegas tournament vs Phoenix Open and even a Super Bowl bump didn't help. Maybe this week? Dunno. The crowds have been suss to say the least.
3. Golf, but louder
Sure, Greg Norman is loud and when he gives marching orders to the players, they get talkative to the press (way too much whining).
Rahm-bo complaining about the music was incredible for myself. Shuddup bro.
Again, organic...
4. We want to play less
LIV went from 8 events to 14 right away. They want their players in all the majors, so that is 18 right there. Now, many have to play extra events to qualify for the majors and ranking points. The one really embracing this is DJ. That guy just tells it like it is. Rahm badly wants back into a handful of PGA events. I think that he figured he might miss a few months of those events, as he was lied to by Norman like everyone else.
5. Consequences
Most of these guys talked about the consequences as if those would be nothing, because they figured that a lot of what Norman told them would come true.
It hasn't. The fact that we'll never see guys like Garcia, Poulter or Phil captain their teams in Ryder Cups is wild. Just wild. And, sad.
As far as the majors, you can earn your way in. Too many of these guys want something handed to them. Suck it up buttercup.
Yes, I rip on LIV.
I don't care for the product. That is all there is to it.
Could my mind be changed? Perhaps. Team play + 54 holes + half a field of brutal players isn't it though.
If you tell me that Rahm had 8 top-10 finishes at the end of the year, I won't be impressed. There are way less than half a field that can compete on a weekly basis. Sure, a guy like Phil may creep up one week.... that is akin to the 150th ranked player on the PGA sneaking into a top 10.
Hey, the PGA tour has turned even greedier as well. But, I'll still watch 50% of the tournaments due to deeper fields and historical venues. That is half the draw, the courses.
Recency bias is big right now when comparing the state of golf. We've had several years with a bunch of no-names winning a bunch of early tournaments out west. The last few years, and especially in 2023, the big names were winning. Now, does that mean the PGA is thriving? Nope. Between weather issues and some top players performing very average at this point -- the LIV bots are attacking.
I don't care for the product. That is all there is to it.
Could my mind be changed? Perhaps. Team play + 54 holes + half a field of brutal players isn't it though.
If you tell me that Rahm had 8 top-10 finishes at the end of the year, I won't be impressed. There are way less than half a field that can compete on a weekly basis. Sure, a guy like Phil may creep up one week.... that is akin to the 150th ranked player on the PGA sneaking into a top 10.
Hey, the PGA tour has turned even greedier as well. But, I'll still watch 50% of the tournaments due to deeper fields and historical venues. That is half the draw, the courses.
Recency bias is big right now when comparing the state of golf. We've had several years with a bunch of no-names winning a bunch of early tournaments out west. The last few years, and especially in 2023, the big names were winning. Now, does that mean the PGA is thriving? Nope. Between weather issues and some top players performing very average at this point -- the LIV bots are attacking.
One last thing...
Many think that things get resolved and everything is great again. Think again. There will be a lot of fences to mend and this needs to be done in a very delicate manner. The article I linked the other day highlighted a lot of this.
Take the time and do it right.
Meanwhile, those LIV guys that want to be in majors, go ahead and do the qualifying to get in. If you are good enough, it will happen (or you will be noticed for an invite).
Many think that things get resolved and everything is great again. Think again. There will be a lot of fences to mend and this needs to be done in a very delicate manner. The article I linked the other day highlighted a lot of this.
Take the time and do it right.
Meanwhile, those LIV guys that want to be in majors, go ahead and do the qualifying to get in. If you are good enough, it will happen (or you will be noticed for an invite).
In most cases, absolutely.
Some of these are simply guys cashing in on a career: Phil, Westy, Stenson, G-Mac and Ian come to mind (Bubba and Sergio too)
Some of these are guys that don't care to play much: DJ, Brooks, Bryson and honestly master fisherman Cam Smith
Some, this was a great opportunity for a middling player: Varner, CH3, Horsfield Reed, Pieters, Herbert, Steele
Some, are young and are willing to go out on a limb: Puig, Mito, Niemann, Ancer and Surratt
We can expound on those lists...
The "stars" are...
Brooks
DJ
Bryson
Cam
Next level are
Niemann
Hatton
Gooch
Ancer
Mito
(I could be missing one)
For this current incarnation of the league to succeed, they need some of the other young guys to EXPLODE. That would mean multiple wins on LIV plus a major or something else big outside of it.
The fact is, a lot of dead weight (yes this post is much like earlier, but man these guys are just blah)
Westy
Poulter
Phil
Ian
Bubba
Sergio
Wolff
AK
Swafford
Chacarra
Samooja
Kaymer
Ogletree
Vincent
Pieters
Uihlehn
Kozuma
Bland
Stenson
Lee
Herbert
Steele
A few of those maybe don't belong at the bottom, and a few I left off may belong in their place.
The point is, there is a lot of dead weight here.
Maybe there is never a merger back, and they add 25 more guys and can make this a competition to be in the league? That would start to pique interest.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
Only thing I'd push back on is Brooks wanting to play less. I think when he took the LIV offer, it was because he was hurt and unable to play at the level he wanted, and he had doubts about whether he would ever be able to again. I think he'd be among the first to head back to the PGA Tour if/when that becomes an option. Or maybe now that he is guaranteed 5 years of majors he's confident he'll continue to qualify based on performance and he'll stay put. Hard to read that guy sometimes.
I am glad that LIV caused the disruption, because professional golf was getting really stale. But now that the shock has worn off that someone could actually hurt the Tour, they need to start making amends in some capacity. I am a golf nerd, and I probably watched less golf last year than at any time in my adult life, and we're not off to a great start this year either. The Masters commercials still get the heart going a bit, but beyond that, not sure how interested I'll be.
I think LIV has gone too far in the opposite direction of the PGA. It just looks like a member-guest tournament. The team thing feels clunky, but it works in college, so I think there's a chance for team golf to exist alongside individual stroke play. There's a void with the WGC Matchplay gone, so I feel like that's something that LIV should jump on before the Tour does. That's what makes the Ryder Cup so intriguing. And the shotgun start thing isn't for me. Good on them for trying something new, and I get that making rounds shorter would be great, but it's too hard to follow. Smaller fields and maybe a shot clock instead. Pros would bitch, but I bet most of them play better when they have to make decisions a lot faster
I am glad that LIV caused the disruption, because professional golf was getting really stale. But now that the shock has worn off that someone could actually hurt the Tour, they need to start making amends in some capacity. I am a golf nerd, and I probably watched less golf last year than at any time in my adult life, and we're not off to a great start this year either. The Masters commercials still get the heart going a bit, but beyond that, not sure how interested I'll be.
I think LIV has gone too far in the opposite direction of the PGA. It just looks like a member-guest tournament. The team thing feels clunky, but it works in college, so I think there's a chance for team golf to exist alongside individual stroke play. There's a void with the WGC Matchplay gone, so I feel like that's something that LIV should jump on before the Tour does. That's what makes the Ryder Cup so intriguing. And the shotgun start thing isn't for me. Good on them for trying something new, and I get that making rounds shorter would be great, but it's too hard to follow. Smaller fields and maybe a shot clock instead. Pros would bitch, but I bet most of them play better when they have to make decisions a lot faster
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
You're right about match play
People around the globe make fun of Americans because we like anything with a bracket and it's true. How on Earth can you let that tournament go?
I've hardly watched golf so far this year and I love the West Coast swing. Even the tournament here was such a hard watch because of the chaos, I know they'll figure it out for next year but it wasn't enjoyable. Even tried fantasy to get into it more but that only lasted a couple weeks.
Would instantly turn on match play right now if they were playing
Yeah, that Brooks assessment is fair.
When he went on his first run, he basically said that the majors were his only concern. So, who knows? He's tough to read at times.
Concur on pretty much everything else.
Might as well cash in like Rahm did.
Everyone should do this right now because they'll be back in tour events soon enough.
Jamie Weir, who is close to Rory, calling BS fwiw.
laopadak
Pretty much a regular
Thanks BAR, wasn't sure but it would make sense if there was even a small percentage of being remotely true. A big FU to Monahan for screwing shit up after all the support the PGA got/gets from Rors, take the cash and potentially come back as a whole, when the merger is complete.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Rory squashed the report today. He said he retiring on the PGA Tour and “honestly doesn’t know how these things get started.”
He said neither he nor his agents have ever discussed a potential deal to go to LIV.
Tossed the video below..
I started thinking tonight...
I'm pretty sure that after every major we see a rumor about so and so pop up. Am I wrong? I feel like we've seen this almost exactly on time the last 12-18 months.
Feels planned.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
I think the PIF wants to keep pressuring the PGA and the investors to make sure the merger or whatever keeps moving toward completion, so they will continue to try to sign players. If the Rory stuff had been true, it would have been a catastrophe for the PGA Tour. So if LIV can't sign these guys, it makes sense to keep the rumors going just to make Jay Monanhan nervous and motivated to make a deal with Yassar
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
Definitely remember it last year after masters and us open
Makes sense, they are basically fighting a PR war now for better terms
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
Good if you're bored overnight, even better if you need an insomnia fix. Saw it was on late and I couldn't even make it to the first tee.
You're right, market internationally because it simply will be a carnival tour for the majority of American golf fans.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
That’s weird. I could have sworn the OWGR said that they weren’t awarding points to LIV golf because they only play 54 holes.
I saw that too.
I believe size of field is just as big.
And yes, before this dwelves, I know about limited field PGA events.
I don't get into LIV arguments. The tour is what it is, bunch of dudes making more money than they'll know what to do with.
The growth hadn't happened like they intended. The format is appealing only to a smaller set.
That's fine.
It'll find it's niche as an off-season set if they merge? Dunno.
Back to the points argument. These LIV fields are extremely weak after 12-15 guys. That's just the deal. Many of these guys are over the hill or still working through the kinks as younger guys.
I'd be more interested tbh if this was a traveling tour of...
Rahm
DJ
Blake
Phil
Bryson
Cam Smith (but he'd rather be fishing)
Jacko
Ancer
Hatton
Gooch
Reed
Wildcard
Go play some crazy courses in America and around the world that we can both identify with but also aren't tour stops.
With technology today, this can happen. Rotate courses at Bandon. Play Pine Valley... Doral can still be used. Plenty of stuff like that.
Trim the fat and make these big time events for big money. Stop with the dining bonuses.
That, would be awesome!
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. BUT, if the OWGR said they won't give LIV points due to 54 hole tournaments, it's absolutely fucking hypocritical to then award points to another golf league holding 54 hole tournaments. That should be common sense and nobody should disagree with it, I don't see how anyone could.
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
Never known anyone to sign a draft version, but OK. Good timing on reviving the thread.....apparently Joey Chestnut has joined the LIV version of eating leagues and now Nathan's and Major League Eating have gone all Monahan and banned him from the July 4th contest.
gothamist.com
Joey Chestnut out of Coney Island hot dog eating contest. Major League Eating is 'devastated.'
An MLE spokesperson says the competitive eater signed an exclusive deal with a rival hot dog brand.
gothamist.com
Ship says they don't want to steal the Thunder of this week so next Tuesday is the day.
Yeah, mentioned this in GD.Never known anyone to sign a draft version, but OK. Good timing on reviving the thread.....apparently Joey Chestnut has joined the LIV version of eating leagues and now Nathan's and Major League Eating have gone all Monahan and banned him from the July 4th contest.
Joey Chestnut out of Coney Island hot dog eating contest. Major League Eating is 'devastated.'
An MLE spokesperson says the competitive eater signed an exclusive deal with a rival hot dog brand.
Nuts.
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
This shit should be so easy to solve. Start with something really simple.
LIV - first off, enough with scheduling head-to-head with PGA Tour signature events. You're going against the Genesis, Bay Hill and the Players? It's madness, stop it. Next, you have 13 teams....cut it back to 12 by merging two of the weaker squads (Cleeks and Range Goats would be my picks). Then add back a 13th team reserved exclusively for the PGA Tour. ONLY IN THE INTERNATIONAL EVENTS so as not to splinter the PGA in the US. PGA Tour can send whoever they want to compete in those events. Imagine Rory and Scottie going to Adelaide......
PGA Tour - you've revamped your schedule and now have more signature events. Reserve four spots in each signature event for LIV players. Bring Rahm, Bryson, Blake, Smith etc. back into the mix.
And ffs, get both leagues in the same boat with a points or merit system for the majors, Ryder Cup and President's Cup. Enough is enough.
Now PGA Tour is growing their brand again internationally and directly pulling in some of that Saudi money. LIV gets a boost in talent to help their case on a merit system and becomes an international juggernaut like F1. And the US tour is getting more events with more of the best players involved. Win-fucking-win all around.
LIV - first off, enough with scheduling head-to-head with PGA Tour signature events. You're going against the Genesis, Bay Hill and the Players? It's madness, stop it. Next, you have 13 teams....cut it back to 12 by merging two of the weaker squads (Cleeks and Range Goats would be my picks). Then add back a 13th team reserved exclusively for the PGA Tour. ONLY IN THE INTERNATIONAL EVENTS so as not to splinter the PGA in the US. PGA Tour can send whoever they want to compete in those events. Imagine Rory and Scottie going to Adelaide......
PGA Tour - you've revamped your schedule and now have more signature events. Reserve four spots in each signature event for LIV players. Bring Rahm, Bryson, Blake, Smith etc. back into the mix.
And ffs, get both leagues in the same boat with a points or merit system for the majors, Ryder Cup and President's Cup. Enough is enough.
Now PGA Tour is growing their brand again internationally and directly pulling in some of that Saudi money. LIV gets a boost in talent to help their case on a merit system and becomes an international juggernaut like F1. And the US tour is getting more events with more of the best players involved. Win-fucking-win all around.
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