GoDawgs1980
Pretty much a regular
exactly, its kind of like in the business world where people wait until the bonus is paid out..
Curious if they wait to after the presidents cup or just say f it.
LIV Tour
- Thread starter guaranteeed
- Start date
exactly, its kind of like in the business world where people wait until the bonus is paid out..
Curious if they wait to after the presidents cup or just say f it.
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
If the St. Jude got the LIV treatment from the media:
A career non-winner beats a limited field in the first FedEx playoff event, winning a playoff over an unknown that coming in had played all his events in 2022 at a combined 15 strokes over par. The star power of the tour, understanding that their results this week were basically meaningless as they all retained invites to next week's even smaller event, played indifferent golf with none of them being in contention on the weekend. Instead the stage was set for Will Zalatoris and his controversial arm-lock putting style vs the unlikely Sepp Straka, ranked 214th in the OWGR at the start of the year and who was coming off six straight missed cuts. The face of the tour, Rory McIlroy, was a virtual no-show, bowing out before the weekend started. The Tour moves on to Delaware and then finally to a 30 person event in Atlanta, where the stars are gifted a multi-stroke advantage in the hopes that their interest will maintain for the full tournament.
A career non-winner beats a limited field in the first FedEx playoff event, winning a playoff over an unknown that coming in had played all his events in 2022 at a combined 15 strokes over par. The star power of the tour, understanding that their results this week were basically meaningless as they all retained invites to next week's even smaller event, played indifferent golf with none of them being in contention on the weekend. Instead the stage was set for Will Zalatoris and his controversial arm-lock putting style vs the unlikely Sepp Straka, ranked 214th in the OWGR at the start of the year and who was coming off six straight missed cuts. The face of the tour, Rory McIlroy, was a virtual no-show, bowing out before the weekend started. The Tour moves on to Delaware and then finally to a 30 person event in Atlanta, where the stars are gifted a multi-stroke advantage in the hopes that their interest will maintain for the full tournament.
GoDawgs1980
Pretty much a regular
How about Cam withdrawing from the BMW?
RBTrojan
Pretty much a regular
Reports say Tiger Woods to meet with PGA Tour players at BMW Championship in effort to fend off LIV Golf
Tiger Woods is headed to the BMW Championship this week but not to play golf.
King Slap
CTG Honorary Super Moderator
I still have absolutely no idea where you can watch LIV - but yeah, must be big overseas
I still can't believe Tiger turned down $700-$800 million but like Twinkie said, imagine being able to do that
My dad's theory is that since Tiger wanted to be a Navy Seal and his dad grew him up on a Navy golf course that there's no way he'd play for a Saudi tour. Idk, but sort of makes sense.
I still can't believe Tiger turned down $700-$800 million but like Twinkie said, imagine being able to do that
My dad's theory is that since Tiger wanted to be a Navy Seal and his dad grew him up on a Navy golf course that there's no way he'd play for a Saudi tour. Idk, but sort of makes sense.
King Slap
CTG Honorary Super Moderator
It’s all very puzzling to Woods.
“I just don’t understand it. I understand what Jack (Nicklaus) and Arnold (Palmer) did because playing professional golf at a Tour level versus a club pro is different, and I understand that transition and that move and the recognition that a touring pro versus a club pro is,” he said. “But what these players are doing for guaranteed money, what is the incentive to practice? What is the incentive to go out there and earn it in the dirt? You’re just getting paid a lot of money upfront and playing a few events and playing 54 holes. They’re playing blaring music and have all these atmospheres that are different.
“I can understand 54 holes is almost like a mandate when you get to the (PGA Champions) Tour. The guys are a little bit older and a little more banged up. But when you’re at this young age and some of these kids – they really are kids who have gone from amateur golf into that organization – 72-hole tests are part of it,” Woods said. “I just don’t see how that move is positive in the long term for a lot of these players.”
“I just don’t understand it. I understand what Jack (Nicklaus) and Arnold (Palmer) did because playing professional golf at a Tour level versus a club pro is different, and I understand that transition and that move and the recognition that a touring pro versus a club pro is,” he said. “But what these players are doing for guaranteed money, what is the incentive to practice? What is the incentive to go out there and earn it in the dirt? You’re just getting paid a lot of money upfront and playing a few events and playing 54 holes. They’re playing blaring music and have all these atmospheres that are different.
“I can understand 54 holes is almost like a mandate when you get to the (PGA Champions) Tour. The guys are a little bit older and a little more banged up. But when you’re at this young age and some of these kids – they really are kids who have gone from amateur golf into that organization – 72-hole tests are part of it,” Woods said. “I just don’t see how that move is positive in the long term for a lot of these players.”
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
The man with the means to turn down a $750 million offer wonders why others are worried about financial security. LOL
At least he does acknowledge that the PGA Tour broke off from the PGA of America mainly over.......wait for it......money.
Perhaps he should take his crusade against guaranteed money to the major sports leagues around the world and see how it plays....
72 holes is an arbitrary number. The early British and US Open tournaments were only 36 holes. Then they moved to two 36 hole days. Then they moved to three day events with 18, 18 and 36 on Sunday. Now its four days. Who's to say in the future some events wouldn't move to 54 holes?
At least he does acknowledge that the PGA Tour broke off from the PGA of America mainly over.......wait for it......money.
Perhaps he should take his crusade against guaranteed money to the major sports leagues around the world and see how it plays....
72 holes is an arbitrary number. The early British and US Open tournaments were only 36 holes. Then they moved to two 36 hole days. Then they moved to three day events with 18, 18 and 36 on Sunday. Now its four days. Who's to say in the future some events wouldn't move to 54 holes?
King Slap
CTG Honorary Super Moderator
Lmao - Tiger is by far my favorite athlete ever. But this is a perfect take
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
Liv is on youtube streamed live
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
I do think tiger is right about the motivation part, which means the level of competition wont be the same
When these big signing in fees are basically downside guarantees and the players dont get any extra in prize money unless they go past what they are already paid, whats the point?
Why would a dj or brooks, who are notoriously guys who prefer not golfing if they can do other stuff, put in time and practice in the offseason and long days, when they cant make any extra scratch from it and they are already generationally wealthy
When these big signing in fees are basically downside guarantees and the players dont get any extra in prize money unless they go past what they are already paid, whats the point?
Why would a dj or brooks, who are notoriously guys who prefer not golfing if they can do other stuff, put in time and practice in the offseason and long days, when they cant make any extra scratch from it and they are already generationally wealthy
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
PGA put out that new compensation packet that showed what golfers would have earned in their careers if they were rookies now and had the same career
So Furyk goes from 71 million to 620
Rory would have made 278 million over the next 10 years if he started his career this year
So Furyk goes from 71 million to 620
Rory would have made 278 million over the next 10 years if he started his career this year
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
PGA put out that new compensation packet that showed what golfers would have earned in their careers if they were rookies now and had the same career
So Furyk goes from 71 million to 620
Rory would have made 278 million over the next 10 years if he started his career this year
So they released info showing Phil was, in fact, right all along? Quite the self own.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
Agreed. It will be interesting to see if they stay motivated. Being able to get OWGR points and play in Majors would probably ensure they do…but maybe they don’t care at all. Time will tell.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
PGA put out that new compensation packet that showed what golfers would have earned in their careers if they were rookies now and had the same career
So Furyk goes from 71 million to 620
Rory would have made 278 million over the next 10 years if he started his career this year
Maybe I’m reading this wrong, and I apologize if I am…but Furyk goes from 98 to 620 and Rory would have earned 238 million over the next 10 years.
Again, maybe I’m reading this chart wrong…where are you getting those numbers?
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
Whether or not they get paid above and beyond their guarantee is still not clear. So far only one attorney has said that as an argument in a hearing. But lawyers aren't operating under oath. And it's been repeatedly denied by players who also aren't under oath.
I think the lack of motivation angle is overblown. These aren't the first guys in the history of sport to have a guaranteed contract. What makes them put in the practice is the same as what got them their deal in the first place, their internal will and drive to be excellent and produce results that will be noticed. A lot of them still want to compete in the majors as well, which is further incentive. LIV does need to get that aspect ironed out soon or it will be a big blemish.
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
LIV Golf is promising huge money. In these documents, the PGA Tour fights back
PGA Tour officials are sharing with players projections that show how their current earnings could translate into future career earnings as high as $620 million with the tour's bigger purses and incentive plans
www.golfdigest.com
Furyks was 28 years which is in article, table just showing first 20
Rory was a typo
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
LIV Golf is promising huge money. In these documents, the PGA Tour fights back
PGA Tour officials are sharing with players projections that show how their current earnings could translate into future career earnings as high as $620 million with the tour's bigger purses and incentive plans
Furyks was 28 years which is in article, table just showing first 20
Rory was a typo
But the first 20 years is still 78.9 million and his career earnings have been 98 (which is also on the table). No worries, I was just confused where you got 71 million from.
It seems the article just mistakenly has his career earnings at 71 million, while the chart they provided shows that it’s actually 98 million.
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
The big boys present at Tiger's powwow apparently discussed adding a bunch of no cut events for the top 60 players. Suddenly that competitive aspect of having a cut to make isn't all that appealing, go figure. Good heavens (clutching pearls), what will be their motivation to play well?
Comic note - somehow Rickie Fowler was invited to the powwow......really?
Comic note - somehow Rickie Fowler was invited to the powwow......really?
King Slap
CTG Honorary Super Moderator
Hmmm would love to hear who the other 5 are
You will, next week.
I honestly thought there would be DD guys.
Maybe a few more after the Presidents Cup?
Leishman likely on the list.
Cam is the first loss of any real significance. Deki would be as well.
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
Theres a pretty large difference between no cut events and not getting any prize money
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
Team world put out their top 8 qualifiers picture and I could see 5 of em gone right after
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
?????
Who's not getting prize money?
Some LIV golfers not earning a winning purse when it comes to results
It turns out that some players who have ditched the PGA Tour for the riches of LIV Golf aren’t actually earning a dime when it comes to their results.
nypost.com
At the end of the press conference in Portland, a LIV official in Portland tried to clear up the matter at the time.
“I just wanted to address [the] question earlier when you were asking about the prize purses and if they are in addition to the contracts,” she said. “The prize purses are in addition to. There is no draw at LIV Golf on any finances,” she said. We just wanted to, on the record, it’s in addition to. And while you guys have, this is your first event, but you should know that from your contracts. You can attest to it. Thank you guys.”
LIV Golf denies speculation that players aren’t getting prize money
LIV Golf has gained notoriety for its ludicrous payouts and contract offers, though in recent days rumors have circulated that such financial terms are partially dubious.
nypost.com
“I haven’t yet received the transcript from the proceedings [Tuesday], but it seems there is a misunderstanding regarding prize purses,’’ Atul Khosla, president and chief operating officer of LIV Golf, said in a memo. “This issue is simple, and we’ve addressed it before. Prize money is of course separate from the contractual monies that players earn. As you already know, prize money is not subtracted from a player’s contractual earnings. That’s all there is to it.”
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
There are at least two people that drive no television market at least. Sepp Straka is more interesting than those two and he's basically as fun as staring at a 2x4. Next.
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
This one at least makes it fascinating finally.
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
I take back my issue then, I wonder how that rumor, that wasn't presented as rumor but fact, got out?????
Who's not getting prize money?
Some LIV golfers not earning a winning purse when it comes to results
It turns out that some players who have ditched the PGA Tour for the riches of LIV Golf aren’t actually earning a dime when it comes to their results.
At the end of the press conference in Portland, a LIV official in Portland tried to clear up the matter at the time.
“I just wanted to address [the] question earlier when you were asking about the prize purses and if they are in addition to the contracts,” she said. “The prize purses are in addition to. There is no draw at LIV Golf on any finances,” she said. We just wanted to, on the record, it’s in addition to. And while you guys have, this is your first event, but you should know that from your contracts. You can attest to it. Thank you guys.”
LIV Golf denies speculation that players aren’t getting prize money
LIV Golf has gained notoriety for its ludicrous payouts and contract offers, though in recent days rumors have circulated that such financial terms are partially dubious.
“I haven’t yet received the transcript from the proceedings [Tuesday], but it seems there is a misunderstanding regarding prize purses,’’ Atul Khosla, president and chief operating officer of LIV Golf, said in a memo. “This issue is simple, and we’ve addressed it before. Prize money is of course separate from the contractual monies that players earn. As you already know, prize money is not subtracted from a player’s contractual earnings. That’s all there is to it.”
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
It was discussed at the FedEx injunction hearing and the attorney for the three players made the argument when trying to justify the injunction request, but he was apparently either mistaken or being purposely misleading to help his clients.
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
So are TGL players being banned?
RBTrojan
Pretty much a regular
My only memory of Mito will be that driver swing on 18 in the PGA this year.
There’s plenty of young talent in golf to fill the void these guys will be leaving. But honestly, if any of these LIV guys aren’t seen for a year, will any of them be really missed by the average fan?
There’s plenty of young talent in golf to fill the void these guys will be leaving. But honestly, if any of these LIV guys aren’t seen for a year, will any of them be really missed by the average fan?
Exactly.
As much as I like Cam, he is more known for his haircut than much else until this past July.
DJ is a great talent but is older and prefers to sit in the background.
Brooks had that run, but his only notable things lately are beefs with Bryson and SM Content.
Bryson, due to his style, could be missed but frankly he may already be injury prone.
Phil is washed up and turned into a villain.
Bubba is nothing.
Reed is a cheat.
Stenson needed a LIV field to get his first win in years.
IJP and Westy are way past their prime.
Sergio fits in that category as well.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This just isn't it, as of now.
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
Was talking with my dad about that today, neither of us were planning on paying attention today with how the scores looked
When he called me and said rory is on the move it was automatic find a tv and watch
Rory is THE guy, him coming back to form this year has been huge for golf
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
Even the other guys who are still find a way to watch on sunday if they are charging
JT
Rahm
Scheffler after this year for sure
Schauffle
Spieth
Guys like zalatoris and homa have a chance to be there too
That's who's gonna move the needle for the tour
JT
Rahm
Scheffler after this year for sure
Schauffle
Spieth
Guys like zalatoris and homa have a chance to be there too
That's who's gonna move the needle for the tour
I am/were one of the highest on Cam that I can tell the last couple years and fully bought in when i picked up notes last offseason of his camp finally getting him to buy in and spend some semblance of time on the range to complement that short game.
If he were to stick around I think you are talking about a guy who could push north of 5 majors including multiple Ws at Augusta with a couple breaks. I'd make him co-favs with Rory/Scottie in April if nothing changed. I don't blame the guy (hell obviously I would cash in for hundreds of millions if I could) but there was a path for him to go down as one of the legends of the game if he kept up that trajectory. Now he gets to ride off into the Saudi sunset playing exhibition golf for the rest of his career at the start of his prime.
Nothing wrong with it but It's too bad we'll never know where he could've got.
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
As a US venture the PGA Tour still has the edge, but they've ceded ground both in talent and in the calendar, especially with the new schedule changes. They've guaranteed themselves good fields for about 20 weeks out of what has been a 45-47 week season. That gives a lot of room for LIV to swoop in on the down weeks and take the spotlight. I said it a long time ago.....strengthen your top 20 events and reopen your doors to these guys and you'll get the best of both worlds. Monahan is just too damn stubborn to allow a peaceful coexistence. Meanwhile his baby, the President's Cup, has been decimated.
Internationally, LIV is now the #1 golf venture. They have all the recent and now current big names with the exception of Rahm, Rory, Lowry and Matsuyama, and it would not surprise me if they get those last couple soon.
Internationally, LIV is now the #1 golf venture. They have all the recent and now current big names with the exception of Rahm, Rory, Lowry and Matsuyama, and it would not surprise me if they get those last couple soon.
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
He still has a path.....I haven't heard any major say they're rescinding exemptions for LIV guys yet. Cam has 5 year exemptions for all the majors based on his Open win.
I don't get the argument that playing LIV events dulls your competitive spirit.....these guys are not all like Jon Rahm and go right into the tank in no cut events.
Very well could be true but not how I'm seeing it. I'm damn near a fanboy as he's been more than good to the bankroll for me.
Just my opinion but I believe not having to earn your way into these LIV exhibition events and having the giant up front money just for appearances (again nothing wrong with it but no different than previous Saudi events and folks like Tiger getting some big time appearance fee $ for events in Japan in the past) absolutely would have a negative effect on ones competitive spirit within those specific events especially when those events have no tangible meaning or value to fans or players (outside of $).
Obviously the story is just starting and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. LIV's got at least a year I would think until they can get any OWGR points for events so they've got to sustain long enough until 2024 or so at a minimum. I think at that point you've got a tour full of guys outside the top 100 where they'd need to continue to poach top guys from the PGA to build up strength of field or you'll end up with very little OWGR points given out anyway. Strange kind of chicken and egg issue but they probably obviously have the $$$ to survive the multiple years it'll take to build it.
The legal stuff could change that if courts step in and allow players to play on both tours....if that happens the PGA is screwed anyway and would be left with IMO what they would if they negotiated with LIV in the first place. I think Monahan's only rationale play was to defend the tour knowing some defections would happen vs the alternative of negotiating with LIV and watching his tour get absolutely shredded.
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BringInTheLefty
Pretty much a regular
the LIV golf tour now has 12 of the last 24 major winners on it…
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
Yeah but they're all the has-been major winners
Bubba not playing, recuperating from meniscus surgery.
Varner is an interesting defection....
askias
Pretty much a regular
I love Varner personally, but he hasn’t won on the PGA Tour. I completely get the financial dimension here, and I would never tell anyone to not go and get their bag. But as a casual fan, I can tell you that I’m going to watch the Masters, the U.S. Open and whatever Tiger is in. The LIV thing is just a big fat zero to me.
Cam Young also had a change of heart as well...to me would've been the best long term impact (especially PGA/USA impact) getting young studs performing at a high level
Niemann and Smith are definitely big impactful international names in their prime that will move the needle internationally for LIV....the entire rest of that field in Boston? Meh.
12 of the last 25 majors and probably also like 12 of the last 35 (still impactful but clearly some ideal cherry picking happening targeting a cutoff right around 2016 I'm guessing)
Maybe Smith will keep the pedal down and scoop up a couple more if the Majors stay open for him but outside of that I'd guess in 2 years the 12 out of 24 (really 25) is going to be either 12 or 13 out of 33 (and also out of 40 or so) unless LIV can continue to poach (which is obviously possible)
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I don't play golf and am a very casual fan - you'd have to pay me to watch a regular PGA Event on TV. I do like to watch the majors though, especially if someone interesting is in contention. So no one probably cares what I think but here it goes. I haven't read any of this thread at all so I apologize if I'm repeating someone.
1. Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship - and Crown Prince MBS is the dictator.
2. LIV is ultimately owned by Saudi Arabia and thus MBS.
3. MBS ordered the brutal killing of the American citizen reporter because he had the gall to criticize MBS.
4. MBS and SA, while technically US allies, have done nothing to help us in our current high gas price crisis. Neither has Kuwait - and remember it wasn't that long ago that American blood was spilled liberating Kuwait from Saddam and Iraq. And you can bet if we hadn't stopped him in Kuwait, SA would have been next. But do they help us in our hour of need, NO. I said back then that SA and Kuwait weren't much better than Saddam.
5. Everyone knows SA treats women, gays, etc. as 2nd class citizens. I don't know if they kill gays like Iran does, but I know they aren't "free".
6. I sincerely hope the 3 other Major Championships ban these LIV guys (and are legally able to do so). If they do, and no network gives LIV a TV contract, LIV and these guys will fade away into history. There might be temporary pain losing guys like Smith and Beefcake but it will pass. Always someone new coming up.
7. It just pisses me off that a dictator thinks he can kill an American citizen, not help the country that saved him and his country, and then try to buy and control a sport. Hopefully the Majors, TV Networks and most fans let these guys go play their exhibitions and wallow in their cash.
8. And I hear a lot of "I don't blame these guys for taking the money". I do. Phil probably made $500 million+ over his career in earnings/endorsements - enough to lose $40 million gambling over 3 years and not ruin him. These guys are all multi millionaires - but it's not enough. So they are selling out their souls for more millions. Normally I'd be with them, but just every once in awhile a person needs to make a stand on basic human values even if it costs them personally - and this is one of them.
thanks
1. Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship - and Crown Prince MBS is the dictator.
2. LIV is ultimately owned by Saudi Arabia and thus MBS.
3. MBS ordered the brutal killing of the American citizen reporter because he had the gall to criticize MBS.
4. MBS and SA, while technically US allies, have done nothing to help us in our current high gas price crisis. Neither has Kuwait - and remember it wasn't that long ago that American blood was spilled liberating Kuwait from Saddam and Iraq. And you can bet if we hadn't stopped him in Kuwait, SA would have been next. But do they help us in our hour of need, NO. I said back then that SA and Kuwait weren't much better than Saddam.
5. Everyone knows SA treats women, gays, etc. as 2nd class citizens. I don't know if they kill gays like Iran does, but I know they aren't "free".
6. I sincerely hope the 3 other Major Championships ban these LIV guys (and are legally able to do so). If they do, and no network gives LIV a TV contract, LIV and these guys will fade away into history. There might be temporary pain losing guys like Smith and Beefcake but it will pass. Always someone new coming up.
7. It just pisses me off that a dictator thinks he can kill an American citizen, not help the country that saved him and his country, and then try to buy and control a sport. Hopefully the Majors, TV Networks and most fans let these guys go play their exhibitions and wallow in their cash.
8. And I hear a lot of "I don't blame these guys for taking the money". I do. Phil probably made $500 million+ over his career in earnings/endorsements - enough to lose $40 million gambling over 3 years and not ruin him. These guys are all multi millionaires - but it's not enough. So they are selling out their souls for more millions. Normally I'd be with them, but just every once in awhile a person needs to make a stand on basic human values even if it costs them personally - and this is one of them.
thanks
Gandolf
Leader of the Van Buren Boys
Khashoggi was not an American citizen. But hey thanks for your two cents. Be sure to post something similar in the Soccer thread about how the Premier League can rot in hell since they allowed the Saudis to buy Newcastle United. I'd hate to see the soccer zealots miss out.
My apologies. You are correct that Khashoggi was not an American citizen. I should have said Saudi citizen with American ties (graduated from Indiana State and worked for Washington Post). thanks
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