Kobe Or Jordan ???

MeasyMoney said:
its really that stupid? espn, best damn sports show, nbc, all of them ask it all the time, they must be stupid too though...
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It is called stirring up a discussion; it's their job. And guess what? The broadcasters are forced to choose sides and make arguments because what fun would it be for them to pose a question, then everyone vote the same. You are giving this question way too much credibility, not to mention you're biased on the subject. No one is debating the fact that Kobe is talented or one of the best players of his era, but let him finish his career and have another generation play before you start trying to consider him the best ever.
 
kobe was option 2 with shaq.

if mike played with shaq. mike would be option 1.

if mike played today he could prolly turn that 37.1 he averaged into around 41-42 with how the rules are set up for perimeter players to dominate.

bron almost won it all last year playing 1-5. no way in hell he could of doen that back in 1991. same can be said of AI back when they played lakers even earlier this decade.
 
JumpOnBoard said:
that's sideways reasoning..

Kobe was barely in the league anyway.
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that was kobe's 5th, 6th and 7th year in nba when they won. what you mean?

<TABLE class="playerStatTable careerAvg" borderColor=#cccccc cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=1><TBODY><TR class=title><TD class=year>Year</TD><TD class=team>Team</TD><TD>G</TD><TD>GS</TD><TD>MPG</TD><TD>FG%</TD><TD>3P%</TD><TD>FT%</TD><TD>OFF</TD><TD>DEF</TD><TD>RPG</TD><TD>APG</TD><TD>SPG</TD><TD>BPG</TD><TD>TO</TD><TD>PF</TD><TD>PPG</TD></TR><TR class=""><TD class=yr>96-97</TD><TD class=tm>LAL</TD><TD>71</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>15.5</TD><TD>0.417</TD><TD>0.375</TD><TD>0.819</TD><TD>0.7</TD><TD>1.2</TD><TD>1.9</TD><TD>1.3</TD><TD>0.7</TD><TD>0.3</TD><TD>1.58</TD><TD>1.40</TD><TD>7.6</TD></TR><TR class=odd><TD class=yr>97-98</TD><TD class=tm>LAL</TD><TD>79</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>26.0</TD><TD>0.428</TD><TD>0.341</TD><TD>0.794</TD><TD>1.0</TD><TD>2.1</TD><TD>3.1</TD><TD>2.5</TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD>0.5</TD><TD>1.99</TD><TD>2.30</TD><TD>15.4</TD></TR><TR class=""><TD class=yr>98-99</TD><TD class=tm>LAL</TD><TD>50</TD><TD>50</TD><TD>37.9</TD><TD>0.465</TD><TD>0.267</TD><TD>0.839</TD><TD>1.1</TD><TD>4.2</TD><TD>5.3</TD><TD>3.8</TD><TD>1.4</TD><TD>1.0</TD><TD>3.14</TD><TD>3.10</TD><TD>19.9</TD></TR><TR class=odd><TD class=yr>99-00</TD><TD class=tm>LAL</TD><TD>66</TD><TD>62</TD><TD>38.2</TD><TD>0.468</TD><TD>0.319</TD><TD>0.821</TD><TD>1.6</TD><TD>4.7</TD><TD>6.3</TD><TD>4.9</TD><TD>1.6</TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD>2.76</TD><TD>3.30</TD><TD>22.5</TD></TR><TR class=""><TD class=yr>00-01</TD><TD class=tm>LAL</TD><TD>68</TD><TD>68</TD><TD>40.9</TD><TD>0.464</TD><TD>0.305</TD><TD>0.853</TD><TD>1.5</TD><TD>4.3</TD><TD>5.9</TD><TD>5.0</TD><TD>1.7</TD><TD>0.6</TD><TD>3.24</TD><TD>3.30</TD><TD>28.5</TD></TR><TR class=odd><TD class=yr>01-02</TD><TD class=tm>LAL</TD><TD>80</TD><TD>80</TD><TD>38.3</TD><TD>0.469</TD><TD>0.250</TD><TD>0.829</TD><TD>1.4</TD><TD>4.1</TD><TD>5.5</TD><TD>5.5</TD><TD>1.5</TD><TD>0.4</TD><TD>2.79</TD><TD>2.90</TD><TD>25.2</TD></TR><TR class=""><TD class=yr>02-03</TD><TD class=tm>LAL</TD><TD>82</TD><TD>82</TD><TD>41.5</TD><TD>0.451</TD><TD>0.383</TD><TD>0.843</TD><TD>1.3</TD><TD>5.6</TD><TD>6.9</TD><TD>5.9</TD><TD>2.2</TD><TD>0.8</TD><TD>3.51</TD><TD>2.70</TD><TD>30.0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
I thought it was 3-5th...

But your original point was sideways reasoning and meaningless to the convo..

But I still think it's Jordan, but by a hair.
 
JumpOnBoard said:
I thought it was 3-5th...

But your original point was sideways reasoning and meaningless to the convo..

But I still think it's Jordan, but by a hair.
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:shake: that sounds about right for now...when or if kobe wins this 4th ring, things will be different...lakers should control this league for the next few years
 
This is a great thread and all but in 10 or 12 years it will be a moot point because the things Lebron James is doing right now at age 22 and without a jumper/supporting cast is just amazing. And thats with less talent than Jordan ever had around him and he still pushed them to the finals last year. When Lebron retires he will go down as the best player of all time. And will no doubt have the stats to back it up.

But relating to this discussion right now. Jordan is still better than Kobe and that aint even close as of right now. Bring this back up in 3 years when Kobe wins back to back to back with this Lakers squad than we can talk. But it wont even matter in 10 years cause the list is going to look like this
1.Lebron
2.MJ
3.Kobe.
 
He has shown at times though Jump he can hit it. This year at MSG for one example. Im going to go out on a huge limb and say hes going to be a GREAT shooter in 3 years. And even if he only becomes a good shooter he still has a chance to become one of the best ever just because of his build and quicknes and how nobody can stop him from getting to the rim. And Lebron would murder someone for any of Jordans supporting cast any year
 
First off, the comparison talk between Kobe and MJ is laughable. Two different era's. I'm not going to rehash a lot of what has been said in this thread because some is to the point and some is ridiculous. The funny this is that I used to watch the NBA because of MJ, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, etc... When MJ retired, I retired from watching basketball until just recently. Back then I didn't gamble so it was easier not to watch. That is what the guy meant to the game of basketball for me. IT'S MY OPINION AND IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T LIKE IT THEN KISS MY FUCKING ASS. IT'S MY OPINION. MJ IS THE GREATEST. How anybody can say this era is better than the MJ era is flat out senseless? Maybe better athlete's, stronger, etc... but not better BASKETBALL PLAYERS. The list of players above is only the cream of the crop of how that era was. I'm sure there were tons more of players on that list that would squash some of the rejects in the day and age. Bottom line: game on the line, tie game with 5 seconds left in the game, give me MJ 10 out of 10 times. Period.
 
Can I vote for Kareem? 26-6-4 at age 39, in the Playoffs.

He and Karl Malone are the only other players to put up star numbers at 39.
 
this will be never-ending so you guys are right this thread was pointless...i just wanted to see peoples thoughts because obviously there is a whole bunch of kobe haters for all the wrong reasons (everybody likes to get their dick wet by a white woman from time to time) , and now that he is going to the finals again i wanted to see if anyones thoughts have changed bout him, regardless bout what anyone thinks his leadership skills have drastically increased...
 
Man, some people have really gone off the deep end.

I love Kobe. He's great. But, MJ is just better.

Here's how I see Jordan. Today, you have Lebron and Kobe and they are the dominant players at their position.

Kobe is the finesse: He has the best jumpshot combined with athleticism I've ever seen (I agree with ljc about Bird being a better basketball player than Kobe, and I sometimes think Bird was the greatest ever, but that doesn't mean better overall player). He's really quick for his size which also makes him a great defender.

Lebron (who we'll inevitably have this same conversation with) is the strongest player pound for pound ever, period. The guy is a physical freak. However, he doesn't have the finesse game at all. His jumper is obviously not good. He doesn't move that well laterally and this hinders his defense. His size also gets him tired in stretches, but his freakish agility makes up for it most of the times. However, his ability to finish is the best ever, imo.

Now, Jordan is probably the perfect middle between the two. People forget how unbelievably strong Jordan was (especially for a guard). The guy was a bully (pun intended). Next to Lebron, I've never seen someone get to the basket like him. Kobe can finish, but not like Jordan. Jordan also worked on and had a great jumper. His mid-range game was really impressive. We all know that turn-around J, it was just unguardable. Kobe has the same shot in his repertoire, but he doesn't back into his opponents as strong as Jordan did.

Physically, that's how I see it. But, the most important things might be the intangibles.

Lebron, imo doesn't appraoch either of these guys, and I don't see that changing. So, in regards to Kobe and Jordan they had some unique abilities that had measurable impacts on their game.

Obviously Jordan was an unreal competitor, but so is Kobe, maybe even more so. One thing both guys can do is turn a crowd. I don't know if anybody got and gets booed harder than Jordan and Kobe. However, they're just so impressive that even fans at the away arenas can't help but be amazed. I remember when Kobe laid out the Knicks one time (we all know how hardcore their fans can be) and they were booing him early on. He just started putting on a show though, and eventually they could do nothing but cheer. And this is when they were still in the game.

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Ill put him down for 3 or 4. Once they get Michael Redd on that team (possibly this summer) they are the best team in the East. All time scoring leader with 3 or 4 titles and a player that nobody can stop= G.O.A.T. in my honest opinion.
 
Dystopia said:
Man, some people have really gone off the deep end.

Kobe is the finesse: He has the best jumpshot combined with athleticism I've ever seen (I agree with ljc about Bird being a better basketball player than Kobe, and I sometimes think Bird was the greatest ever, but that doesn't mean better overall player). He's really quick for his size which also makes him a great defender.

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I'm glad someone understands my point. He's a better all around not overall player.
 
There is NO comparison.

Kobe lost w/ Shaq to the Pistons years back in a pathetic beat down, 4-1.

Jordan would never go on to lose another playoff series after he got his first... comeback year doesn't count.

Jordan had a god-like ability... you knew he was going to come through... win the big games. He always SHUT DOWN the other teams best player and always made the right decision.

He shot 50% from the field. An amazing achievement most big men can only achieve.


Kobe is amazing. But he's not capable of ever achieving that bigger than life mystic in a game. Where you know no matter what the other team tries... they are done.

Pat Riley once said everyones playing for second as long as Michael's playing. It was really true.

The guy at the age of 40 and a bad knee... averaged 25 ppg.



If you say Kobe, you just are a homer or weren't old enough to see what Jordan did 6 years in a row.


Kobe just won his 1st MVP... and it was considered more a lifetime achievement than him actually blowing anyone out of the water for it. Paul, this season, deserved it just as much.

Jordan and his MVP campaigns weren't even close. One season, Malone, got it over him for a lifetime achievement award. It still today is one of the biggest jokes in NBA history.


Kobe's great. Best player since Jordan and top 5 all-time. There will be no Michael Jordan, ever. Best athlete in modern history vs. the best basketball player of this era... can we even compare?
 
bump

mj.jpg
 
but kobe is one level above jordan:tiphat:

all those forced shots he bricked tonight when the celts took the lead late in the 4th.... hes so clutch

:seeya:
 
a couple were, and you should have seen the threads on blankets, it was pure comedy

they were actually serious.
 
I think its obvious at this point who is better!! I'm no Jordan lover, i hated him for being a ballhog in his early years.. But I'm man enuf to accept I was wrong and the dude was the Greatest, always will....
 
I guess i forget how long ago jordan actually was ... probably a few people who never really got to see him.
 
alx468 said:
I think its obvious at this point who is better!! I'm no Jordan lover, i hated him for being a ballhog in his early years.. But I'm man enuf to accept I was wrong and the dude was the Greatest, always will....
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:cheers:

takes a man to admit when he is wrong.

that is why i rarely do it.

well done.
 
Smokedawg said:
the only people who think kobe is better than jordan are kids that never saw jordan play in his bulls years
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Right on...I was a life long Piston fan before Jordan massacred them in the East Finals hehe hated the Bulls eversince...but sh*t they dominated the 90's!
 
I agree I saw Jordan play and the only reason I though KOBE was better because he is making me money now and Jordan is making me zilch now?

But honestly Jordan is in a league of his own and KOBE is proving that he is not clutch as Jordan was that is for sure-- He won with SHAQ and i dont think he can win without SHAQ
 
Sammy Meatballs said:
I agree I saw Jordan play and the only reason I though KOBE was better because he is making me money now and Jordan is making me zilch now?

But honestly Jordan is in a league of his own and KOBE is proving that he is not clutch as Jordan was that is for sure-- He won with SHAQ and i dont think he can win without SHAQ
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True....:cheers:
 
The argument ended for me tonight on that one possession where Vucaccic had the ball, shot clock was running out, KOBE was not asking for the ball because I think he knew he couldnt score on the C's.

Jordan would have ran over and taken the ball from VUCACIC and also kicked VUCACCIC in the ass or pushed him out of bounds for not passing it to KOBE-

KObe is good, but nowhere near JORDAN, he is still a top performer in the league
 
i saw a classic series of posts on another site having this debate the other day.

jordanfan -----"jordan is the greatest of all time"

kobefan -------"Kobe Bryant is better than michael jordan. If they played a game of one-on-one , kobe bryant would beat michael jordan 100-97."

jordanfan ------"maybe ... but only because Jordan is 45 now."


:36_11_6:
 
Yeah I remember the Uta-Chi finals where no23 stepped up on the last 2 crucial games..even hitting the game winner on a pull up jumper over Russell..I was so pissed at him..i felt pity for the mail man, honry and stock...Jazz had 2 legit stars vs MJ.. Pippen imo just went along the MJ train as proven when Mj left he won zilch, even when paired with Barkley and the Dream...
 
The "debate" would seem to have officially ended last night.

Bill Simmons puts it nicely:

"The Kobe-MJ thing ... done. Over. Jordan never would have let that happen in the Finals. Ever. Under any circumstances. Nobody is ever allowed to bring this up again."
 
their will never be another jordan. ever. hands down.

no one will ever acheive that level of greatness.

their can only be jordan-esque type plays.

and killas right, you think MJ would let a 24 point lead slip away AT HOME?

hell no he wouldnt have, he would have taken the game over in the fourth, whereas kobe didnt.

argument over. case closed.
 
i am shocked that this was a discussion. kobe isn't even the best player in the league right now, let alone all time. i too thought this discussion was a joke.

because you listen to interviews of jordan over and over and try to make your voice sound like him does not make you him. the only aspect of his game that is even remotely comparable is his mid range jumper
 
Kobe is the best player in pro ball now, but he is not in jordan's league yet. If he wins a couple more titles to bring the total to 5, I would start including him in the discussion.

Kobe is better than lebron, Im tired of this ohio love in here. Anyone watching pro basketball unbiased can tell this.
 
you're telling me you'd rather have kobe than lebron...that has to be a joke.

lebron has better body control and balance going to the rim.

lebron is bigger, faster, and stronger (significantly bigger and stronger, and yes he is faster although kobe is quicker)

kobe clearly has a big advantage on his 3 ball, and a much better mid-range jumper. lebron has the potential to gain ground with his mid-range although he'll never be at kobe's level in that category...not many are.

lebron is a more valuable defender because he can guard anybody including kobe, and kobe is one of the most overrated defenders in the history of sports (with 5,000,000 hustleman stats to back this up...yes he's off the wall when it comes to kobe but he makes sense when trashing kobe's defense)

lebron is significantly better passer.

lebron is heads above in leadership on the court

kobe has an edge on how clutch he's been, but that is one of those "potential categories" that lebron will gain ground and probably surpass

so you wouldn't take the bigger, stronger, faster, better defending better leading, better chance of fighting contact and finishing near the rim, and better passer over the quicker, more clutch jump shooter? that's nuts.
 
and when they ask the question, could you see MJ EVER giving up a 24 pt lead at home in a playoff game, and the answer is an obvious NO!.....you can substitute lebron's name in there and the answer would be the same, no matter what kind of scrubs danny ferry puts on the court with him
 
Kobe won his championships while playing the robin role. Shaq was batman. Now that Kobe is batman, he has failed. So until he wins a championship leading his team, there is no comparison to Jordan.
 
i knew kobe byrants alter egos first name for a long time now. Didnt know that he added Grayson to the end of it though :)
 
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