Kobe Or Jordan ???

brewer · May 30, 2008

jordan's ego is unreal yet you think he's not aggressive like kobe?

brewer · May 30, 2008

brewer · May 30, 2008

a sg that shot that percentage and scored like that yet not aggressive?

divol · May 30, 2008

Look guys, I hate Jordan and his Bulls, I got to admit. Held my fingers crossed when he played Utah, Suns, Seattle and still, average player in today's league? Magic is also an average player? Bird? Kareem? West? Are all the players that are HOFs will be today nothing but average players, just because we got now players like Mbenga and Oberto in today's league?
Jordan was a great player and he was a smart player as well. I'm sure he would have found a way to be one of the best in the league today. The things he did, his athletic abilities weren't as those of Carter, only for the 10 ten of the week. He did the things he needed, when the team needed him. To come and show such disrepect to a player that dominated the league for 10 years simply hurts. It also makes your favorite players to be even smaller, because if Jordan is a nobody and he controlled the league, what does it make other stars of that period as Stockton, Malone, Ewing, Hakeem, Miller, Drexler, Robinson and I can continue. He won the original bad boys of Detroit, he played against the greatest of the 80's, against the legendary Lakers and Celtics and he would be an average player today? NO WAY! Hate the dude, but still respect him.
Who is better, Kobe or Jordan? I don't know. Kobe is the best since Jordan, I know that and that is enough for me...

Cruzer0210 · May 30, 2008

kobe & the lakers are going to own the nba for the next 3-5 years

terpsplayball · May 30, 2008

how many finals mvps does kobe have? without the most dominating big since wilt, kobe would have a grand total of zero nba titles. I cant believe all of you honestly believe Kobe is BETTER than jordan. The players from past eras may not have been as athletic but they were 20 times smarter than the high schoolers from today and more skilled. Most of the players from today are faster sure but they would get abused by "dream teamers" and the likes because those guys relied on footwork, position, and fundamentals todays players lack, which more than make up for athleticism. If the game is so much more exciting today, with these super human athletes, why are the best teams in the league the old slow fundamentally defensive ones like the spurs and pistons. why are the games played n the 80s? Congrats to Kobe, the lakers, and thier backers but divol said it best. Kobes the best SINCE jordan and weve been unsucessfully searching for a decade to find someone who may "be like MIKE". Kobes the closest we may ever see but their will never be another mike.

evalagoal · May 30, 2008

JORDAN

Kobe is a PU***

nropp11 · May 30, 2008

m to the j. no question.

mogo · May 30, 2008

Jordan by far!!!!!

MJ did, and still does, more for the game of basketball than Kobe ever will...

terpsplayball · May 30, 2008

How athletic were Bird, Mchale, DJ, Parrish, Walton, and co.? Those teams not only avg. considerably more points than the teams today but would DESTROY this seasons NBA 60+ win regular season league leading Celtics. DESTROY. The difference between todays players and those of yesteryear is HEART. The reason kobe's whsipered in the same breath as mj and is dominating this league so easily is because he wants it so much more than most of these thugs that would rather be home playing video games and smoking trees with their boys. Stockton and Hornacek may not be as athletic as any players/guards in the league today but Id still bet they'd RUN circles around 95 percent of em. Not that thiers anything wrong with smoking trees.

greenmon$ter · May 30, 2008

"Jordan would be an average athlete in today's era..."

Some of the posters here clearly were too young to follow the nba back in the 80's.

Most ridiculous thread... eva.

terpsplayball · May 30, 2008

most of those posters were probably up until 4 or 5 in the morning playing video games just like thier NBA breathren. may be till late afternoon before we get a response on this.

B.A.R. · May 30, 2008

greenmon$ter said:
"Jordan would be an average athlete in today's era..."

Some of the posters here clearly were too young to follow the nba back in the 80's.

Most ridiculous thread... eva.

Am I this old at 28?

Seriously. I love Kobe's game, but this isn't close....yet.

B.A.R. · May 30, 2008

I got to get primed to write this up.

Blue_Chip · May 30, 2008

This is a stupid question...

Hands down MJ

ljc_267 · May 30, 2008

Nice video Brewer.

Kobe and Jordan have similar playing styles. The fade away and the quick first step. At this point I don't think anyone can argue that Jordan isn't the best of all time. He was the most dominating player of his time, no question. Also, he led the Bulls to six titles. How many has Kobe won as the leader? 0. I'm not saying Kobe isn't one of the greats but to say Jordan would be average today is ridiculous. Take a look a the video Brewer posted and tell me he would be average.

ljc_267 · May 30, 2008

BTW, Larry Bird was a better Basketball player than Kobe Bryant

greenmon$ter · May 30, 2008

Sammy Meatballs said:
Jordan was basically one decade ahead, he was probably an average player in this modern NBA, it is exactly like putting Wade, Lebron, Parker, Manu, Ben Gordon, Lamar ODOm, any of these guys in the Jordan era, there were no athletes, Tom chambers was dominating in that era??

JOrdan could not do anyting with the Wizards, he was nothing compared to Kobe- To dominate now where athletes are 10 times better is amazing.

Those Jordan teams played absoulte garbage teams in the final

No athletes in the 80's? Dr J, Pip, Bernard King, Drex, Nique, Ron Harper, Worthy, these guys were unathletic tards? They didn't have guys like Oak, Mark Eaton, Cage, Ralph Sampson, Hakeem, D.Robinson guarding the low post whenever MJ wanted to penetrate?

Ben Gordon and Odom would dominate against the Bad Boy Pistons or the '86 Celtics? :36_11_6:

B.A.R. · May 30, 2008

First of all, a setting up. I hated MJ. I mean despised. You guys know how I hate crooked refs and Stern tactics. Well, this shit really started in 1991 when MJ and Phil Jackson got into the leagues and refs heads about our defense tactics. It was a pussy move. Phil did it for years after with the Knicks as well. I honestly respected the hell outta his game but hated the preferential treatment he got. When he came back with the Wizards, I was marveled at how well he could do. Someone posted his stats earlier. Pretty fuckin impressive for that age. He put up numerous 40 point games. Some say that stint tainted his legacy, to me it showed how a guy could continually adapt his game throughout his career.

Okay, todays basketball is not fundamental. Not across the board, but quite a bit. Players from Jordans first 8-10 years were much more skilled in the game of basketball. This generation really degenerated from watching Jordan and dunking and looking pretty was the thing. Hence, why basketball isn't as pretty to watch anymore.

A lot of you younger guys think of Jordan's career as the Rodman years. He was a wily veteran than. You need to look at 84-93, that was an era of complete domination. Think of the SG's he played against then. Dumars, Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond, Byron Scott, Ron Harper(before the knee injury), Danny Ainge, Jeff Malone, Rolando Blackman, Dale Ellis, Ricky Pierce, Clyde Drexler and many more.

That was also the best era w/o a doubt in my lifetime of basketball. In almost a 10 year span you had the Celtics, Rockets(86), Lakers and Pistons that were just amazing. At times, during that era, Atlanta, Dallas and NY were all teams that could maybe compete for a title in this era but those were super teams back then.

Heres how much purer the NBA was then. Still to this day, the best defensive team I have ever seen was the 1989 Detroit team. No bias. I would rate any of the Bulls 6 championship teams right ther as well. The Knicks of the mid nineties come in third. Then you have your modern day Detroit, San Antonio etc behind. You'll say, look at the stats. Your wrong BAR. The thing is imma right. As good as those teams were defensively the NBA players were much more skilled back then and could still score 96-100 points against the best defensive squads. The NBA is also overcoached these days too. Too much thinking.

Expansion. This is what really hurt the NBA. Its just starting to even back out with the foreign influx the past several years. Why do you think Chicago dominated the 90's? Well, a great team but the league was so watered down. Honestly, 92ish till about early part of this decade was such a down time for NBA. Now, ratings were good cuz of MJ but the play wasn't stellar and a lot of stiffs were in league due to mass expansion.

Now lets talk Jordan. None of this talk should be to dongrade Kobe. The guy is great. He is MJ lite basically. Can be a lock down defender at times. Is clutch as hell and this season pulled an MJ and learned to trust his teammates.

Jordan was not only the best offensive player in the league. He was also the best defensive player. He won that distinction in 1987. I believe hat was the year he averaged 37.1 ppg btw. Pretty impressive. He, Pippen and Rodman(when Dennis was with Detroit) were best lock down defenders I have ever seen. Only one close in this era is Mr. Artest.

Guys may be more athletic today, but not better basketball players. I seriously cannot believe some of the stuff I read in this thread. Go hit up Youtube and watch some old school MJ games. Its clear to see.

B.A.R. · May 30, 2008

greenmon$ter said:
No athletes in the 80's? Dr J, Pip, Bernard King, Drex, Nique, Ron Harper, Worthy, these guys were unathletic tards? They didn't have guys like Oak, Mark Eaton, Cage, Ralph Sampson, Hakeem, D.Robinson guarding the low post whenever MJ wanted to penetrate?

Ben Gordon and Odom would dominate against the Bad Boy Pistons or the '86 Celtics? :36_11_6:

Voices of reason finally coming out.

Great point, look at the big men Jordan hasd to encounter every trip down lane in his career. Ready for this list kids(Centers and Power Forwards)

Mchale
Malone
Mahorn
Jabbar
Eaton
Mutombo
Kemp
Sampson
Olajuwon
Robinson
Willis
Mourning
Lambeer
Daugherty
Parish
Ewing
Barkley
Oakley

and on and on

greenmon$ter · May 30, 2008

Couldn't have summed it up better. Nice BAR.

The 80's era generation players were so much smarter basketball IQ-wise, perceived unathletic guards like Reggie or Dumars could drop "quiet 50's" at will in today's game. Keyword being "perceived", b/c that's what happens as memories fade with new blood arriving in the league, but all those guards would run circles around a Manu or a BenGordon today.

Kobe has a long way to go before he can be mentioned in the same breath with the holy trinity of MJ/Bird/Magic. Let's first see how he adjusts to his 30+ yr body and finds himself unable to jump over his defenders at will. This is a ridiculous, albeit entertaining, disccusion.

jimbo1227 · May 30, 2008

i have said it before on here and ill quickly say it again. i watched 80-90% of games that jordan played on the bulls. my dad seriously sat me down and said you have to watch this, you will never see this again. it really says something when BAR admits jordan to be the best. now, i follow the nba more than anyone i have ever met. i have the nba package and watch games every night. kobe is definately the best player in the nba and has been for a few years now. he combines defense, jump shooting, driving/finishing ability, and clutchness. lebron is stronger, but his jump shot sucks and his defense isn't as good as kobe. so kobe is obviously much better overall. i think the nba was much stronger when jordan played, and nowadays i think alot of players are just prissy bitches. all in all, it is a argument that nobody can win, but in my heart i know jordan is a better overall basketball player.

brewer · May 30, 2008

B.A.R. you did the right thing. But why didnt you hint at how the game has evolved into a guards game. A game where you can no longer grab onto defenders on the perimeter, hand check, etc.? Michael would kill to play in that if he could today against the likes of Mike Redd, Ben Gordon, Monta Ellis, D Wade, Jason Terry, Brandon Roy, Kevin Durant, Mike Dunleavy, Larry Hughes, Wally Zerbeack (sp?), Jason Richardson, Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Jason Kapono, Carmelo Anthony, JR Smith, Manu Ginobli, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Paul Pierce, Keith Bogans, Maurice Evans, Mike Miller, Kobe Bryant, Ray Allen, Gilbert Arenas, DeShawn Stevenson ...

Also, going back to the post that was made about Mike's numbers at the age of 39 and 40 with the wiz. He didnt come back to take his teams to the playoffs. He came back for his ego. He couldnt stand his name not being talked out. So he had to go play and show he still had it at 39/40 and he still did.

Don't believe me then why did he make this commercial saying that?

http://<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_BB7kUUKVN0&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_BB7kUUKVN0&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
I dont know how many players can say they averaged 23, 6, 5 at the age of 39 in the history of the nba. Im sure the list is not long tho.

B.A.R. · May 30, 2008

Great point about the rules of the game now...etc...Brewer....No hand-checking now

Thats even more validity.

I woulda loved to see Bron or Kobe or any of these guys drive down the lane against the old Bad Boy teams or even the early 90's Knicks.

brewer · May 30, 2008

Michael also made a commerical about how he possibly destroyed today's game with his high wire antics being what he is remembered for best and today's current players and the one's to come focusing on trying to do that instead of the pure fundamentals, hard work and heart those late 80's early 90's teams had.

http://<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_-EyRUgp9Mk&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_-EyRUgp9Mk&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

MeasyMoney · May 30, 2008

ljc_267 said:
BTW, Larry Bird was a better Basketball player than Kobe Bryant

i hope that was the drink talkin

MeasyMoney · May 30, 2008

B.A.R. said:
Great point about the rules of the game now...etc...Brewer....No hand-checking now

Thats even more validity.

I woulda loved to see Bron or Kobe or any of these guys drive down the lane against the old Bad Boy teams or even the early 90's Knicks.

kobe has a better built body than jordan and i hate lebron but he is more physical than the both of them. im pretty sure they would be able to manage a few more fouls...they were letting them play in the cavs//wiz series

and its not like jordan would take the pushes or fouls n just get back up, he would cry to the refs like anyone else

and why is it so hard for people to see that kobe is the best defender in todays league as well...

brewer · May 30, 2008

KJ is so bum athlete from the 90's? watch this...

http://<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ifx_gRF-ouU&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ifx_gRF-ouU&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

brewer · May 30, 2008

More of KJ ...

http://<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sqoSdFdVlzo&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sqoSdFdVlzo&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Damn i hope this is Derrick Rose in 3 years.
</PARAM></EMBED></OBJECT>

MeasyMoney · May 30, 2008

you shoulda put the one where starks yakkd on jordan....everyone can have 1 highlight that aint shit...

n i never said he was a bum, i said if hes in your top 5 over stockton, you will get slaughtered

brewer · May 30, 2008

He's not im just wondering how someone can have two top 25 dunks on a list but not be considered an athlete like someone today?

brewer · May 30, 2008

So kevin johnson out of the blue became an athlete on that one possession? On every other he wasnt?

MeasyMoney · May 30, 2008

your a good player because you can dunk?

you must think darius miles is awesome along with amir johnson

brewer · May 30, 2008

Im not saying that. Im saying there was athletes in that era just like there is today. Unlike the majority here saying there wasnt.

If dunking made you good than i should be in nba along with steed.</EMBED></OBJECT>

JumpOnBoard · May 30, 2008

Nique is best dunker...or the Dr.

ljc_267 · May 30, 2008

MeasyMoney said:
i hope that was the drink talkin

No it's not. I didn't say he was a better athlete. i said that Bird was a better basketball player. How wasn't he?

Bird was a team player that could do it all.

Outside jump shot: Bird
Ball handling: Bird
Fade away: Push
Passing: Bird
Driving to the hole: Bryant
Team play: Bird
defense: Bird
Clutch shooting: Push
Leadership: Bird

I would argue that Bird did most things better than Kobe. I'd like to hear a reasonable counterargument.

JumpOnBoard · May 30, 2008

Well a reasonable counterargument is Kobe can do all the things u just gave to Bird as well or not better than Bird did.

MeasyMoney · May 30, 2008

ljc_267 said:
No it's not. I didn't say he was a better athlete. i said that Bird was a better basketball player. How wasn't he?

Bird was a team player that could do it all.

Outside jump shot: Bird
Ball handling: Bird
Fade away: Push
Passing: Bird
Driving to the hole: Bryant
Team play: Bird
defense: Bird
Clutch shooting: Push
Leadership: Bird

I would argue that Bird did most things better than Kobe. I'd like to hear a reasonable counterargument.

-clutch shooting push hahaha
-ball handling? you have got to be kidding me
-does kobe have to lick his teammates ass in front of everybody to prove he leads his team...what did he do this year?
-defense- bryant by far

bird maybe maybe has a better shot, everything else, kobe shits on him

brewer · May 30, 2008

The Glide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://<OBJECT height=355 width=425>

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WFNDS5B5Ch4&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></OBJECT></P>

RetroVK · May 30, 2008

This is without question .......without question ..... the most ridiculous thread ever.

Are we really having a debate about who is the better player between kobe bryant and michael jordan ?

Really??

What is next ? We are going to debate which is better a million dollars or a thousand dollars ???

This is unbelievable.

If you are someone who said that kobe is a better player than jordan please turn in your sports credibility card now.

MeasyMoney · May 30, 2008

vegaskyle said:
This is without question .......without question ..... the most ridiculous thread ever.

Are we really having a debate about who is the better player between kobe bryant and michael jordan ?

Really??

What is next ? We are going to debate which is better a million dollars or a thousand dollars ???

This is unbelievable.

If you are someone who said that kobe is a better player than jordan please turn in your sports credibility card now.

its really that stupid? espn, best damn sports show, nbc, all of them ask it all the time, they must be stupid too though...we should have a vegaskyle show, that way you can lace all of us up on your sports

RetroVK · May 30, 2008

MeasyMoney said:
its really that stupid? espn, best damn sports show, nbc, all of them ask it all the time, they must be stupid too though...we should have a vegaskyle show, that way you can lace all of us up on your sports

Yes , when they try to make that comparison as a reasonable one ,,,, they are being stupid.

JumpOnBoard · May 30, 2008

I think it's Jordan too...but just by a hair..

Here's my question for all the blatant Kobe haters..

If it's not even close, than who do you compare Kobe to from the generation your talking about.

B.A.R. · May 30, 2008

MeasyMoney said:
-clutch shooting push hahaha
-ball handling? you have got to be kidding me
-does kobe have to lick his teammates ass in front of everybody to prove he leads his team...what did he do this year?
-defense- bryant by far

bird maybe maybe has a better shot, everything else, kobe shits on him

Have you ever watched him play?

Clutchest players ever..

MJ
Bird
Reggie
Isiah
Kobe

B.A.R. · May 30, 2008

JumpOnBoard said:
I think it's Jordan too...but just by a hair..

Here's my question for all the blatant Kobe haters..

If it's not even close, than who do you compare Kobe to from the generation your talking about.

I like Kobe a lot.

MJ played in the best and hardest era ever. That was a sick time for NBA.

B.A.R. · May 30, 2008

JumpOnBoard said:
Nique is best dunker...or the Dr.

Thats the best thing I have heard in this thread.

JumpOnBoard · May 30, 2008

B.A.R. said:
Have you ever watched him play?

Clutchest players ever..

MJ
Bird
Reggie
Isiah
Kobe

Big Shot Bob yo.

B.A.R. · May 30, 2008

JumpOnBoard said:
Big Shot Bob yo.

He would be in my top 10

nropp11 · May 30, 2008

BAR w/ my reggie shoutout!

NICE...

brewer · May 30, 2008

Man did i hate reggie "slinky" miller. that guy was dagger after dagger.

Kobe Or Jordan ???

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