If Alabama loses to Georgia, Should They Make The Playoffs?

[Jimmydafreak]

There is some arrogance somewhere in there, to say Purdue would be the 9th best team in the SEC is just a snarky conference fan opinion. Could they beat A&M and LSU a few times out of 10? I think so but I don't really have a clue. I think both conferences after the top one or two are just whatever, like every other conference. Bama should go play on a campus away from home every year as should every team in P5, and all P5 teams should go the route of the few and refuse to schedule FCS. The money issue for them is their own problem.

Well, Purdue is certainly better than Tennessee, Ole Miss & Arkansas, but lost to the 5th best team in the Eastern Division. If they played, Purdue would have a fighting chance to beat everyone in the conference except Alabama, Georgia, LSU and TAMU. Where they would rank among the remaining 7 SEC teams is the question, and I would certainly put them at or near the bottom of that 7-pack. If you want to put them ahead of Vandy, I wouldn't have a big argument with that, but that still only bumps them up to #8. After all, Purdue is a barely bowl-eligible team coming out of the horrendous Big 10 West. Honestly. I would bet on Vandy to beat them, so I'll stick with them being the 9th best team in the SEC.

Maybe Purdue draws a SEC team in their bowl game and proves me wrong, but I would almost blindly bet on their opponent.

 

[M.W.]

There is some arrogance somewhere in there, to say Purdue would be the 9th best team in the SEC is just a snarky conference fan opinion.

It's more than that. You can look at an objective (though imperfect) measure like the Sagarin ratings, which has Purdue ranked behind 10 SEC teams. Hell, Sagarin has Purdue seventh in the Big Ten, and they'd be eighth if they hadn't played Ohio State (and thereby increased their rating significantly).

 

[M.W.]

And one question.

If you are taking the best four teams .. that includes Alabama no matter their record. Three losses .. doesn't matter .. they are the best team and we have to take the four best teams.

Where do you draw the line?

I draw the line by establishing different criteria. But I'm not in charge, and I don't care about championships. I just want my team to play and beat its rivals plus a random team at the end of the season in something we know as a "bowl game" (and soccer fans would call a "friendly").

 

[RetroVK]

The tough thing with Purdue is that they are wildly inconsistent. They have some really good games against good competition and some head scratching games against weak competition.

We only have one example this year of Purdue playing an SEC team ... they lost to Missouri by 3 but had more yards against Missouri than any other team this season. So while I am not sure where I would put them ranking them against the SEC, I don't think there is much doubt they could compete in the conference. It wouldn't be men vs boys or anything. That said, they proved this year they are also more than capable of losing to any of the SEC bottom feeders. They are just an odd team.

 

[RetroVK]

I draw the line by establishing different criteria. But I'm not in charge, and I don't care about championships. I just want my team to play and beat its rivals plus a random team at the end of the season in something we know as a "bowl game" (and soccer fans would call a "friendly").

I love Bowls too.

Want to know the bowl games I hated?

I hated the 2010 Fiesta Bowl. Boise State went undefeated and TCU went undefeated and instead of getting to see either of them play against what we now call power 5 schools, they put them against each other, so that neither or both of them could prove themselves.

 

[gps_3]

I love Bowls too.

Want to know the bowl games I hated?

I hated the 2010 Fiesta Bowl. Boise State went undefeated and TCU went undefeated and instead of getting to see either of them play against what we now call power 5 schools, they put them against each other, so that neither or both of them could prove themselves.

That was BS. We have seen multiple times that the G5 team can play with and beat a P5 team in a big bowl. I hate the excuse that the P5 teams use that they just didn't get up for the game. Well that's your fault. At the same time, I don't think you can draw any hard conclusions from one game. But what you can't say is that the best G5 team can't hang with the top of the P5. They likely don't have the depth to go unbeaten through a P5 schedule, but in a 1-2 game scenario, I think they absolutely could compete. Not every year maybe, but every few seasons there is a G5 team that has near equal talent in it's starting 22 and usually a good to great coach. I hope they get their chance soon.

 

[VirginiaCavs]

I didn't say they shouldn't be in the final 4. I just don't think its fair that every other team in contention have to play this week and they get to sit on their ass because they are Notre Dame. Its as unfair to me is UCF being given no chance because they don't pick their schedule and even when they do teams won't play them. Screw Notre Dame, great they went undefeated and beat basically nobody outside of M who was just exposed. Now go play a quality team for another week on a neutral and prove it once more like everybody else has to. Oh, they don't because they are holy ND. Fuck em.

Lol dude did you have a problem with Bama making it last year? At least ND beat somebody. If people dislike a team enough they won‘t be satisfied until they beat Clemson or Bama during the regular season

 

[horses]

If Alabama loses this weekend they are still in.

Clemson (they're not going to lose) and Notre Dame are in.

There are your 4 if UGA wins; if UGA loses, then add either OU or OSU.

UCF has no shot (and never will under this system). What to do about the G5 teams that win all their games? Take it to the extreme...what if we are sitting here 3 years from now and UCF is working on their 5th straight undefeated season coming out of the AAC...or in other words....69-0 Straight up over 5 years? Still out according to most, I suppose. I'd love for committee members or handicappers hating on UCF having to go into their locker room and explain to them how SOS and power ratings won't allow them to play for a championship despite their sterling record. I am sure they'd understand once it was detailed out to them.

 

[RetroVK]

If the goal is to pick the four best teams and UGA is the fourth best team right now and loses to Alabama, the best team, then nothing has changed and UGA should make the playoffs, right?

 

[horses]

No, because you (or anyone else) cannot definitively say who the 4 best teams are. I do power ratings...you do power ratings...fuck power ratings when it comes to choosing the playoff teams.

 

[RetroVK]

No, because you (or anyone else) cannot definitively say who the 4 best teams are. I do power ratings...you do power ratings...fuck power ratings when it comes to choosing the playoff teams.

I agree with you.,

I am merely saying if the criteria is to pick the four best teams then UGA should be a lock right now. There is nothing that can happen that would change their position at number four as they should be expected to lose to the best team.

So UGA is in if you are taking the four best teams because ....

1. A loss to the best team has to be expected and therefore is not meaningful to UGA's current status as fourth best team

 

[RetroVK]

If not, can someone explain to me why?

 

[guaranteeed]

correct, but hypothetically there could be a team who dominates but loses one game on the road to a really good team...all im saying is that I don't think that team should be automatically disqualified

I like the 8 team playoff idea. 5 division winners, 2 wild cards and one non big 5 team

Agree, i posted similar, think you just need a disclaimer on the g5 team that they only get it if they have 1 loss or less, im which case goes to 3 at large

Also dont think this destroys bowls at all, remove 4 bowls and 4 games get added.... whats the difference, bowls have already been losing significance lately to the average fan

The 8 team playoff raises interest substantially in the 4 qf games they would run in december, 10-14 days after champiomship week

Imagine if this year on two saturdays from now there was a quadruple header starting at 12 est, 330 est, 7 est, 10 est

Or even a triple and have one play the night before, that would be seen as up there with wild card weekend as one of the best saturdays of the year sport wise

 

[RetroVK]

I agree with you.,

I am merely saying if the criteria is to pick the four best teams then UGA should be a lock right now. There is nothing that can happen that would change their position at number four as they should be expected to lose to the best team.

So UGA is in if you are taking the four best teams because ....

1. A loss to the best team has to be expected and therefore is not meaningful to UGA's current status as fourth best team

Certainly wins over Texas and/or Northwestern would not make me think TOSU or Oklahoma are better than Georgia. Georgia is clearly better than both of those teams regardless of outcome in the SEC championship.

So ... I ask the people who are in favor of four best teams how they account for that? Why should TOSU or Oklahoma pass UGA if four best teams is the criteria?

 

[RetroVK]

Taking it a step further.... regardless of outcome of the ACC championship game, Clemson is better than tosu or oklahoma. The Acc championship game is meaningless if you are taking the four best teams.

Which is it gang?? We all know anything can happen in one game ..... if it is four best then bama uga (2nd best? I think i have clemson a half pt better but maybe?), Clemson and Notre Dame are already in and this weekend is meaningless.

Hmmmm

Something tells me four best teams is a moving goalpost that just allows the committee to pick whoever they want or whoever pays the best

 

[horses]

I agree with you philosophically that the 4 team losing to number 1 shouldn't drop them. That said...I refer you to TCU about 4 years ago where they got screwed to accommodate blue blood tOSU.

That wasnt my particular point though.

My gripe continues to be UCF. If they can't qualify ( and they cant) the committee/NCAA should say so up front...the playoffs are reserved for power 5 schools. At least people would know the playing field at that point.

Back to UGA...why even have playoff rankings? Just announce the 4 teams after championship weekend without any buildup. Bottom line is the committee is flawed because I believe their purpose is to ensure that 4 bluebloods get in the playoff without looking stupid while making it so.

 

[KJ]

Regardless, in their efforts to preserve the regular season, the system has failed. Nice to have a national show (Dan Patrick) agree when he called CFB flat out boring today.

Curious what everyone thinks was the most dramatic game or moment this season. It's tough. That 7OT game this weekend was annoying, not drama for me. Guess I'd say UCF/Memphis and vaguely the Red River, but even that was just ok.

Needs a change asap while non gamblers still are in.

 

[cubsker]

This is still a hell of a lot better than 94 or 97 and probably several other years

 

[pressitup]

The tough thing with Purdue is that they are wildly inconsistent. They have some really good games against good competition and some head scratching games against weak competition.

We only have one example this year of Purdue playing an SEC team ... they lost to Missouri by 3 but had more yards against Missouri than any other team this season. So while I am not sure where I would put them ranking them against the SEC, I don't think there is much doubt they could compete in the conference. It wouldn't be men vs boys or anything. That said, they proved this year they are also more than capable of losing to any of the SEC bottom feeders. They are just an odd team.

Mizzou is B12 team.

 

[KJ]

Mizzou is B12 team.

That dominated FLA in the Swamp

 

[pressitup]

so did kentucky

 

[KJ]

But somehow a crap LSU team got it handed to them...same team that took UGA behind the woodshed

 

[M.W.]

No, because you (or anyone else) cannot definitively say who the 4 best teams are. I do power ratings...you do power ratings...fuck power ratings when it comes to choosing the playoff teams.

Bertrand Russell was asked, "Would you die for your beliefs?"

He answered, "No, I might be wrong."

 

[VirginiaCavs]

Bertrand Russell was asked, "Would you die for your beliefs?"

He answered, "No, I might be wrong."

But didn‘t Pascal deem it rational to act as if his beliefs were true?

 

[pressitup]

But somehow a crap LSU team got it handed to them...same team that took UGA behind the woodshed

Not sure what that has to do with Mizzou resembling a B12 team.

As far as LSU/Geo. that was an easy bet.

You're loathing of all things SEC is well documented, no use discussing.

 

[gps_3]

Taking it a step further.... regardless of outcome of the ACC championship game, Clemson is better than tosu or oklahoma. The Acc championship game is meaningless if you are taking the four best teams.

Which is it gang?? We all know anything can happen in one game ..... if it is four best then bama uga (2nd best? I think i have clemson a half pt better but maybe?), Clemson and Notre Dame are already in and this weekend is meaningless.

Hmmmm

Something tells me four best teams is a moving goalpost that just allows the committee to pick whoever they want or whoever pays the best

I think yes and no. First, I have to believe that the members on the committee are trying to do their best and are trying to be as fair as humanly possible. I do not believe they have an incentive to pick one team vs another, other than their own biases of what makes a team qualified to be in the playoff. There is a bias toward the SEC because it is generally believed to be the strongest conference (true or not), but I don't think they propped up LSU artificially or put Mizzou in this week, to "save" Alabama. If they think that is the best conference, then it stands to reason that they think the 4th or 5th best team in it is better than the 3rd best team in another conference generally. I think they have to operate under a strange combination of best vs most deserving, and it's impossible to make it objective. So while UGA is still likely the 3rd best team in the country regardless of Saturday's outcome, a second loss disqualifies them compared to a 1 loss team IMO. You have to compare the 2 teams competing for one spot and make your pick. Undefeated, conference champ is in from any P5. One loss conference champ is likely in over one loss non-conf champ. 1 loss, non-conf champ is in over 2 loss conference champ, and so on. Obviously there is a huge elephant in the room regarding G5 teams. I think they deserve a shot.

I don't think making conference champions a pre-requisite is the answer, unless you eliminate conference championship games. It would eventually happen that you would have 3+ loss teams in the playoffs and it would kill that post-season. People like upsets, but fans and networks especially want Duke, UK, KU, UNC, etc in the Final 4 in bball, not Loylola-Chicago. I would not watch the playoffs this year if it was Northwestern, Pitt, Utah and Texas. I imagine I wouldn't be alone outside of fans of those schools.

We've already come to a point where the conference championship games are not worth playing for the majority of teams. Notre Dame doesn't need one, and Clemson and Alabama can only hurt their position by playing. Probably UGA too. OU and Ohio St are the only teams that can help themselves this weekend, other than Northwestern and Wash/Utah getting to the Rose Bowl.

 

[B.A.R.]

I chuckled at that remark. I had no idea what the actual strength of schedule numbers were when I read it, but the notion that either of those teams played a harder schedule than Bama struck me as utterly laughable. Just off hand, LSU and Texas A&M are better than any teams either Oklahoma or OSU played this season.

I'm always a gambler first, and a fan second, so I care much more about favorable betting opportunities than who goes to the playoffs or wins the national championship. I mean OSU got blown out by a team that would probably be the 8th or 9th best team in the SEC. That alone should disqualify them from any playoff consideration.

Um, no.

 

[B.A.R.]

I'm not advocating NW.
LSU should get in before those teams.
Those teams won't play pitch and catch for an entire game vs. teams that play defense.

LSU is a three loss team, why are they being used as reference?

They kept getting bonus points in the CFP ratings so we are having this debate right now.

 

[B.A.R.]

What happened last year when they got two in? I understand people getting frustrated but the ALABAMA has proven itself so many times now. Results speak for themselves. I’d love to see the playoffs expand to 8, though.

FIXED

 

[B.A.R.]

They play in the SECw, that's enough

SECe actually had more wins vs the West this year than vice-versa entering last weekend.

 

[gps_3]

Um, no.

I think jimmy's statement is exaggeration, but I looked at the schedules and I don't think it's that crazy of an argument. The only teams on either schedule that are up for debate are Michigan, Penn St, WVU and Texas. I think LSU and Michigan are pretty much the same team. I don't know that there's much separating aTm and Penn St. WVU can score, but they can't tackle. Don't know much about Texas except they've followed the usual Tom Herman strategy of playing up or down to the competition. Bottom line, I don't think there's a whole lot of difference between any of the schedules and I don't think it's a useful metric to distinguish any of these teams this season

 

[gps_3]

SECe actually had more wins vs the West this year than vice-versa entering last weekend.

yeah Ole Miss and Arkansas didn't exactly carry the torch for the West this season

 

[B.A.R.]

I agree with you philosophically that the 4 team losing to number 1 shouldn't drop them. That said...I refer you to TCU about 4 years ago where they got screwed to accommodate blue blood tOSU.

That wasnt my particular point though.

My gripe continues to be UCF. If they can't qualify ( and they cant) the committee/NCAA should say so up front...the playoffs are reserved for power 5 schools. At least people would know the playing field at that point.

Back to UGA...why even have playoff rankings? Just announce the 4 teams after championship weekend without any buildup. Bottom line is the committee is flawed because I believe their purpose is to ensure that 4 bluebloods get in the playoff without looking stupid while making it so.

Playoff rankings are two-fold...

-Debate
-Committee starting their narratives a month ahead of time with some of their posturing. Obviously, last week, with LSU still at #7 was the biggest joke of the year. Add in previous weeks of Beamer-led decisions to get ACC teams in the CFP top 25 to preserve Clemson in case something happened.

 

[KJ]

Not sure what that has to do with Mizzou resembling a B12 team.

As far as LSU/Geo. that was an easy bet.

You're loathing of all things SEC is well documented, no use discussing.

You've missed my overlying point, that after the top one or two teams in any conference, the rest is fluff and unless you integrated conferences for more than a one game sample (bowls) it's pointless. It would be fascinating how contrasting styles of play would show if they had to play week in and out against those "other" styles.

And I don't loathe the SEC, I loathe those who pimp it as somehow better than the others. Unfortunately those same people have the power to control tv, ratings, etc and it is what it is. They have and will get all benefits of the doubt as long as there are preseason polls going forward. SOS is always going to be influenced by humans. For the record, I've said that this Alabama team might well challenge my opinion that the '95 Nebraska team is the best I've ever seen.

 

[Eazyduzit]

There’s no question the SEC is better than the others. More talent, more NFL players, etc. It’s pretty simple. The South now runs college football and that’s never going to change. 13 out of the last 14 national titles and counting. Simple demographics. Not sure why it’s even a discussion.

 

[B.A.R.]

There’s no question the SEC is better than the others. More talent, more NFL players, etc. It’s pretty simple. The South now runs college football and that’s never going to change. 13 out of the last 14 national titles and counting. Simple demographics. Not sure why it’s even a discussion.

Alabama runs it.

Not the SEC.

Absolutely, a shitload of NFL players and the hotbeds of talent in Georgia and Florida (plus surrounding and now in Texas with TAMU in fold).

The thing is...

Lets look at the whole conference this year...

Elite: Alabama

Top 6 team: Georgia

Top 25 caliber teams: LSU, TAMU and maybe Florida

Bottom Top 25 and just out: UK, Messy State, Missouri

Average: South Carolina, Auburn, Vandy

Awful: Ole Miss, Arkansas, Tennessee


SEC had two big dogs, some solid teams then a bunch of crap or or average teams.

But, you look at 'polls' and you see...

8 top 25 teams.

Why?

I see a bunch of 5-3 and 4-4 conference records in there.

The SEC rebuttal is "we beat up on each other"

Well, that is cute and all but you also play ONE LESS conference game than most conferences.

So, then you go out with that extra game and schedule your Nov bye week (for most teams) and that makes your record look even better.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now, the SEC is the smartest conference...

-They play one less conference game
-They add in the November bye week (think about next year, 3 bye weeks -- hilarious)
-They rarely venture out of region (credit to Bama more than others)

 

[Eazyduzit]

It’s more like the South runs it. In particular Alabama. Clemson, FSU, Auburn, Florida, LSU and Texas are in that group too. SEC has 4 different schools with titles in that 14 year frame. No other conference has more than 2. And it’s no coincidence they are both from the South. FSU and Clemson. Like I said it’s not a debate. Just like the East/Southeast owns college basketball. 20 of the last 21 national titles have come from the Eastern Time Zone in hoops.

 

[KJ]

I do like that at least LSU schedules home and home series and will in the future (Texas next year, then UCLA, ASU and Oklahoma down the road)

 

[RetroVK]

All this basically shows is that Californians are pussies. I kid I kid

 

[horses]

I hate you

 

[Eazyduzit]

Also, to your scheduling point the SEC has some nice road wins this year. And one of the bottom teams beat the Pac 12 champion. UK is a legit top 25 team btw! Stoops has done a great job.

 

[KJ]

Tough to call Auburn/UW in Atlanta a road game lol

Need to visit more campuses, not these "neutrals" thus my respect for LSU

 

[Eazyduzit]

All this basically shows is that Californians are pussies. I kid I kid

In all honesty

Tough to call Auburn/UW in Atlanta a road game lol

Need to visit more campuses, not these "neutrals" thus my respect for LSU

Yeah, not referring to that one. Basically a home game for Auburn. That was a big win, though. The road games were at KSU and Purdue early on. Both good wins for middle SEC teams. Ole Miss was terrible this year and even they got a decent out of conference win. Georgia demolishing GT was a nice close out, too. SEC owned their rival ACC this year. I keep saying just go to 8, though.

 

[B.A.R.]

It’s more like the South runs it. In particular Alabama. Clemson, FSU, Auburn, Florida, LSU and Texas are in that group too. SEC has 4 different schools with titles in that 14 year frame. No other conference has more than 2. And it’s no coincidence they are both from the South. FSU and Clemson. Like I said it’s not a debate. Just like the East/Southeast owns college basketball. 20 of the last 21 national titles have come from the Eastern Time Zone in hoops.

There is no debating where the talent is in the US in larger groups. We know that.

There is still the SEC fallacy though. Somehow, a lot of these teams have piggybacked Bama for a decade now. Yes, Barn won one with a generational talent. Yes, LSU has been damn good more years than not the last 15.

Other than that, we have had underachieving Georgia Teams... the 2 year Florida Run.... and that is about it.

Teams of no consequence in the SEC for the past 15 years

-Ole Miss
-Miss State
-Arkansas
-South Carolina
-Kentucky
-Tennessee
-Vanderbilt
-Texas AM (partial)
-Missouri (partial)


In those 15 years

- Florida was a crapshoot from 2010-2017
- Georgia was consistent till the breakthrough last year and this year so far
- LSU has not broken 10 wins in 7 of those 15 years. They would be the #2 to Bama over this period
- Auburn won a NC, and lost one but other than those two seasons are 71-55 in the 9 other season dating back to 2007. They had a good stretch before, good in middle and were absolute bad to average the rest of the time.



-

 

[Eazyduzit]

There is no debating where the talent is in the US in larger groups. We know that.

There is still the SEC fallacy though. Somehow, a lot of these teams have piggybacked Bama for a decade now. Yes, Barn won one with a generational talent. Yes, LSU has been damn good more years than not the last 15.

Other than that, we have had underachieving Georgia Teams... the 2 year Florida Run.... and that is about it.

Teams of no consequence in the SEC for the past 15 years

-Ole Miss
-Miss State
-Arkansas
-South Carolina
-Kentucky
-Tennessee
-Vanderbilt
-Texas AM (partial)
-Missouri (partial)


In those 15 years

- Florida was a crapshoot from 2010-2017
- Georgia was consistent till the breakthrough last year and this year so far
- LSU has not broken 10 wins in 7 of those 15 years. They would be the #2 to Bama over this period
- Auburn won a NC, and lost one but other than those two seasons are 71-55 in the 9 other season dating back to 2007. They had a good stretch before, good in middle and were absolute bad to average the rest of the time.



-

So, this means the Big 10/Big 12 only have 1 team of consequence and the Pac12 has 0. There is no other conference that’s better than the SEC. Its not even close man. This is a stupid conversation. Also, teams like Nebraska, Michigan and ND are of zero consequence since the 90s and most likely never will win a title ever again. Ohio State runs the Midwest. That’s it.

 

[RetroVK]

Tebow run, not Florida run

 

[RetroVK]

I think his point is that the other teams are not relevant because of Bama too. The basic point is that Alabama is just a dominant program right now that beats up on their conference and then whoever they play in bowl/playoff (sans utah .. apparently that year they just didn't care ... go figure).

If you pulled Bama out of the SEC and put them in any of the other conferences the last 15 years, that would then be the best power 5 conference over that span. Weeno is making the point that Bama has done all the heavy lifting for the SEC.

 

[gps_3]

Tough to call Auburn/UW in Atlanta a road game lol

Need to visit more campuses, not these "neutrals" thus my respect for LSU

Definitely tired of the neutral site games. Can't wait for next year's Alabama vs Duke game.

At least the AD has recognized the grumbling from fans. Home and homes on the books for Texas and Notre Dame in the coming years. Just wish they didn't schedule them so far in advance

 

[RetroVK]

Just how great is Alabama that they have made that conference their complete bitch for a decade? If winning week in and week out in the SEC is so tough, bama shouldn't be doing it every year .. it's boise state in the WAC type stuff they are doing here.

 

[B.A.R.]

So, this means the Big 10/Big 12 only have 1 team of consequence and the Pac12 has 0. There is no other conference that’s better than the SEC. Its not even close man. This is a stupid conversation. Also, teams like Nebraska, Michigan and ND are of zero consequence since the 90s.

ND, deserved or not, played in a MNC this decade.

Michigan has been one game away from a National Championship game or Playoff berth 3 times in 12 years. They were totally terrible from 2008-2014 obviously.

You just started assuming that I was talking about old blue bloods or something. Nice try.

Once your teams start playing a full conference schedule with 3 crossover games, stop with the scheduling Tenn Chatt/Shitadel etc/have Florida leave the state OOC other than one time to Dallas where they got their asses kicked/play in the NE/MW/West out of conference more (excluding the few teams that do) then we'll talk.

For all the NFL talent these schools get, they sure put out a SHITTY ass product once you get past a few teams.


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