If Alabama loses to Georgia, Should They Make The Playoffs?

Drawing the line is a big issue, because it does have to be tied to wins somewhere doesnt it?

Otherwise just give it to the best team on paper regardless of performance, and who wants that

UCF getting fucked again is horrible, thats why we need 8, because i dont think we ever see a G5 team getting in as is, which is a joke
 
pressitup said:
Bama should get in.

What if NW wins? Do they get a look?
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No chance for NW. None. They're simply in the role of spoiler. They'll be 9-4 if They win. A 2 loss team has never made the playoff let alone 3 or 4 losses. They will not even be considered. It will simply eliminate ohio state.
 
RetroVK said:
And one question.

If you are taking the best four teams .. that includes Alabama no matter their record. Three losses .. doesn't matter .. they are the best team and we have to take the four best teams.

Where do you draw the line?
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Fallacy. You take the top 4 performing teams. I will go to my grave believing 2015 Ohio state was the best team That year but they lost to mich st on a rainy cloudy day in Columbus in Nov that year I think and they missed the big 10 title game and the playoff by 1 spot.

You take the 4 best performing teams not who you think would win on a neutral. Who earned it? That's who goes. My .01
 
Of course, I think they should be in regardless .. just saying of all the times to get a team in there this would not be good.
 
majent said:
No chance for NW. None. They're simply in the role of spoiler. They'll be 9-4 if They win. A 2 loss team has never made the playoff let alone 3 or 4 losses. They will not even be considered. It will simply eliminate ohio state.
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If you use the "georgia advances because they won the conference champ " argument.
If it goes to conf champ only, this is going to happen.

I believe OU advanced in the old system after losing to KSU in the champ game.
 
RetroVK said:
And one question.

If you are taking the best four teams .. that includes Alabama no matter their record. Three losses .. doesn't matter .. they are the best team and we have to take the four best teams.

Where do you draw the line?
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Ditto. Not much of a debate in my eyes
 
pressitup said:
If you use the "georgia advances because they won the conference champ " argument.
If it goes to conf champ only, this is going to happen.

I believe OU advanced in the old system after losing to KSU in the champ game.
Click to expand...
If it were the Criteria, NW still wouldn’t make it. OK/TX or PAC rep would probably get in. Only if Clemson lost along with Bama, would you look at NW.
 
pressitup said:
If you use the "georgia advances because they won the conference champ " argument.
If it goes to conf champ only, this is going to happen.

I believe OU advanced in the old system after losing to KSU in the champ game.
Click to expand...

Last year a strong ohio state team won the b1g but had 2 losses and Alabama who did Not win the sec went ahead of them. No Chance 4 loss northwestern gets in under any scenario. There are too many teams ahead of them in the CFP ranking. Conf champ only comes into play when comparing two teams who are considered equal, then it's used as the icebreaker. Nwestern was ranked 19 last week and a ho hum 7 pt win over Illinois will not help that ranking
 
RetroVK said:
And one question.

If you are taking the best four teams .. that includes Alabama no matter their record. Three losses .. doesn't matter .. they are the best team and we have to take the four best teams.

Where do you draw the line?
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I don't think there's an exact science to it, but 3 loss Alabama, despite being the "best" would get zero playoff consideration unless every other contender has 2+ losses. For the most part, over the last 25 years or so it's been pretty obvious who the top 2-3, maybe 4 teams are. And most years we've gotten a deserving champion, no matter the system. I would love to hear the reaction if it was conference champs only, and then Alabama's path to the championship was Pitt and Northwestern. The conference champ requirement would be gone the next year.

I've always been of the mindset, win your games, and you have nothing to worry about. It gets trickier when comparing teams with losses. Especially because it would be far better for Alabama to lose to Arkansas in the regular season than UGA in the conference title game. Michigan should have lost to Rutgers instead of Ohio St. I don't think W-L record, outside of undefeated, is the end all be all. Especially because of potential disparity in competition. At the same time, I do think you can be a great team with a weak schedule. Bottom line, it's hard. Too many teams with too few games. Ideally they would have separate P5 and G5 champions. That won't happen, but that would go a long way toward evening up the schedules. Y'all want to rag on Alabama's schedule, Saban is the only coach in the league pushing for 9 conference games and only playing FBS or maybe even P5 opponents. But until he gets his way, no chance he puts his team at a disadvantage.
 
pressitup said:
I'm not advocating NW.
LSU should get in before those teams.
Those teams won't play pitch and catch for an entire game vs. teams that play defense.
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If the Unlikeliest of scenarions happens and TX, Pittsburgh, and Northwestern all win (along with Bama winning the SEC) the playoff 4 would like this:

1. Bama
2. ND
3. ??
4. ??

the following teams would ALL be considered AHEAD of northwestern (would be 9-4) even if they are B1G champion because these teams are all ahead of them in last week's CFP ranking and all have 3 losses or fewer. (obviously if Northwestern moves up quite a bit in tomorrow's CFP rankings that could change things but after they beat lowly Illinois by 8 points i don't see that happening)

While we're at, Pitt the ACC champion would be 8-5 and NO CHANCE of getting in the four. they are barely in the CFP top 25 as it is and should drop out in tomorrow's ranking.

- Pac 12 champion Utah would be 10-3. Washington would be 10-3.
- Big 12 champion Texas would be 10-3
- washington state 10-2
- michigan 10-2
- UCF 13-0 (assuming they win on Sat)
- Florida 9-3
- Penn State 9-3
- Kentucky 9-3

ALL of these teams above are considered better than Nwestern and Pitt by the committee, and they would ALL be in consideration ahead of them.

My money would be on TEXAS and UCF being the 3rd and 4th teams even though Milton got hurt. UCF would still be undefeated and everyone ahead of them would have lost so they in my mind would naturally go to the 4th slot.

Let me reiterate. ZERO ZERO ZERO CHANCE that either Northwestern or Pittsburgh make the college football playoff even if they both win and Texas and Bama do also.

the committee will only consider their conf titles if they compare evenly with the teams ranked ahead of them. then it is used as the tiebreaker. this is listed in the criteria used by the committee. it is one of the rules they go by. this is a fact.
 
M.W. said:
No, I would exclude the Tide.

If I were in charge, I would make it single elimination as follows, so every regular season game would matter:

1. Pick the #1 seed
2. Eliminate everyone number one beat, unless they played twice and split
3. Pick the number 2 seed from the remaining teams
4. Eliminate everyone the 2 seed beat, unless they played twice and split
5. Pick the number 3 seed from the remaining teams
4. Eliminate everyone the 3 seed beat, unless they played twice and split
7. Pick the number 4 seed from the remaining teams
Click to expand...

im just reading this thread now so im not sure if people responded, but this sure does seem to be very detrimental to teams with tough schedules. A team who loses one game to the number 1 team shouldn't necessarily be eliminated. This would just make teams schedule more cupcakes.
 
D-Woww said:
im just reading this thread now so im not sure if people responded, but this sure does seem to be very detrimental to teams with tough schedules. A team who loses one game to the number 1 team shouldn't necessarily be eliminated. This would just make teams schedule more cupcakes.
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opposite effect actually. SOS is extremely important to the committee. this is not a challenge to you, it's just a conversation. if you can name one team between 2014 and 2018 (the 5 years of the CFP) who got screwed over by just one loss, please let me know and i will explain why they were left out. Michigan was getting mad respect before Saturday because their one loss was on the road at ND by 7 pts in game one. if you schedule up and lose, you are given more credit for it by the committee.
 
majent said:
opposite effect actually. SOS is extremely important to the committee. this is not a challenge to you, it's just a conversation. if you can name one team between 2014 and 2018 (the 5 years of the CFP) who got screwed over by just one loss, please let me know and i will explain why they were left out. Michigan was getting mad respect before Saturday because their one loss was on the road at ND by 7 pts in game one. if you schedule up and lose, you are given more credit for it by the committee.
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no I agree with what you are saying, but that is why I don't think that, if a team is very clearly an excellent team but lost one game to Alabama or Clemson, I don't think that should immediately disqualify them like his rules would say
 
D-Woww said:
no I agree with what you are saying, but that is why I don't think that, if a team is very clearly an excellent team but lost one game to Alabama or Clemson, I don't think that should immediately disqualify them like his rules would say
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it doesn't. last year Bama lost to Auburn on the road by 12 points so they were 11-1 and did Not win their conference yet they made the playoff

2016 season, Ohio State lost to penn state on the road by 3 pts, they did not even participate in their conf title game, yet they made the playoff

if you a team plays its A** off week in and week out and if they do lose one but make it a competitive game, they will have a chance at the end.

Oklahoma and Ohio State both 11-1 right now and will be numbers 4 and 5, respectively, in tomorrow's CFP ranking (i will be shocked if they are Not).

OU lost to texas, a 9 win team, by 3 pts.

tOSU lost to purdue, a 6 win team, by 29 points.

if you must lose, make it close. play to the final whistle.
 
D-Woww said:
no I agree with what you are saying, but that is why I don't think that, if a team is very clearly an excellent team but lost one game to Alabama or Clemson, I don't think that should immediately disqualify them like his rules would say
Click to expand...

there is no team out there whose only loss is to bama or clemson. if georgia loses to bama on sat, it is their second loss (they lost to LSU by 20), then they are out.
 
majent said:
there is no team out there whose only loss is to bama or clemson. if georgia loses to bama on sat, it is their second loss (they lost to LSU by 20), then they are out.
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correct, but hypothetically there could be a team who dominates but loses one game on the road to a really good team...all im saying is that I don't think that team should be automatically disqualified

I like the 8 team playoff idea. 5 division winners, 2 wild cards and one non big 5 team
 
majent said:
If the Unlikeliest of scenarions happens and TX, Pittsburgh, and Northwestern all win (along with Bama winning the SEC) the playoff 4 would like this:

1. Bama
2. ND
3. ??
4. ??

the following teams would ALL be considered AHEAD of northwestern (would be 9-4) even if they are B1G champion because these teams are all ahead of them in last week's CFP ranking and all have 3 losses or fewer. (obviously if Northwestern moves up quite a bit in tomorrow's CFP rankings that could change things but after they beat lowly Illinois by 8 points i don't see that happening)

While we're at, Pitt the ACC champion would be 8-5 and NO CHANCE of getting in the four. they are barely in the CFP top 25 as it is and should drop out in tomorrow's ranking.

- Pac 12 champion Utah would be 10-3. Washington would be 10-3.
- Big 12 champion Texas would be 10-3
- washington state 10-2
- michigan 10-2
- UCF 13-0 (assuming they win on Sat)
- Florida 9-3
- Penn State 9-3
- Kentucky 9-3

ALL of these teams above are considered better than Nwestern and Pitt by the committee, and they would ALL be in consideration ahead of them.

My money would be on TEXAS and UCF being the 3rd and 4th teams even though Milton got hurt. UCF would still be undefeated and everyone ahead of them would have lost so they in my mind would naturally go to the 4th slot.

Let me reiterate. ZERO ZERO ZERO CHANCE that either Northwestern or Pittsburgh make the college football playoff even if they both win and Texas and Bama do also.

the committee will only consider their conf titles if they compare evenly with the teams ranked ahead of them. then it is used as the tiebreaker. this is listed in the criteria used by the committee. it is one of the rules they go by. this is a fact.
Click to expand...


so conf titles don't count.
 
pressitup said:
This has already destroyed the Bowl system, that would pretty much do it.
Click to expand...

howso though? it would get more teams "in" without being something obnoxious like a 16 team playoff, and it would give a team like UCF a chance to show they belong.
 
RetroVK said:
If Bama lost two more games are they still the best team? Personnel is the same.

Just curious where you guys draw the line.

I mean had Bama turned it over a bunch of times in the second half against Auburn and somehow lost does that matter? They are still the best team.
If they lost to Mississippi State or TAMU ..... they are still the best team.

You can look at the best team as who you would favor... aka who the best team is ....
Or you can compare accomplishments/resumes.

If it is who the best team is, then the games don't matter very much or in the case of UCF, at all. UCF has an equal chance of going to the playoff with a 24 game losing streak as they do with a 24 game winning streak. And they won't be able to do anything to convince you they are deserving. They go undefeated and beat a team playing in the ACC championship and that is still not enough.

It's fine .. I am a UTEP Alum and will not be winning any cfb championships and don't really care who does in the sense of a fan of a team ... but as a fan of the sport, I wanted the playoff to develop ONLY because I didn't want a fictional champion but here we are ... still picking teams based on what we think rather than objective measures. It's stupid and will always be stupid until it is fixed.

The idea that a non-conference winner gets into the playoff is the biggest travesty in structure that one could imagine in general ... but when you add in the fact that the SEC is almost guaranteed a spot in the playoffs every year, to take two from an automatic bid conference is an absolute joke beyond words.
Click to expand...
What happened last year when they got two in? I understand people getting frustrated but the SEC has proven itself so many times now. Results speak for themselves. I’d love to see the playoffs expand to 8, though.
 
pressitup said:
so conf titles don't count.
Click to expand...

they do count, but only if the conf winner is being compared side by side and the team is equal to the team they are being compared to who did NOT win their conf. it is considered as a tiebreaker vs a team who did NOT win their conf, for the purpose of the CFP. the committee's job is to put the 4 best or most deserving teams based on the data they see.

in other words, the committee knows, I know, and you should know, that just because you win your conf it does not mean you are necessarily the best team in that conf or are better than other teams around the country who win a tougher conf or come short in a tougher conference. every year it goes in cycles. some years a conf is up and other years it is down.

surely you can't think the if 5 loss Pittsburgh and/or 4 loss Northwestern catch lightning in a bottle on saturday, that they should automatically catapult dozens of teams that the CFP committee has already deemed are better than they are?

look at the pac 12. very down year. no dominant teams. the winner of that conf has no business anywhere near the playoff, but they are definitely more deserving of a look than Northwestern and Pitt.

tune into the CFP ranking tomorrow and take a glimpse at where they rank Northwestern. it will be very low. losing to Akron will do that to a team.

Pittsburgh? they won't even be in the TOP 25 !!!
 
Jimmydafreak said:
I think I would take Bama -60 versus UCF, and that's with Milton. But I do agree with you. Been saying all season that is the matchup I would love to see the most.

Saban is ot one to run up the score, but he would against them. I would expect something like a 66-3.
Click to expand...
No doubt. It would be a joke. Would love to see it, though. Just to settle it. Purdue lost to Missouri at home so I’d say you’re about right. They’d be 10th in the SEC at best. Talent gap is huge. Moore is great. Reppin KY. He will bolt Purdue soon.
 
VirginiaCavs said:
Ohio State got robbed last year. Committee wouldn‘t exclude Bama if it had lost to Citadel
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Haha, that would have probably done it. My point is Bama proved it belonged last year. This year they are clearly better. The dynasty is unbelievable. The only solution is to go to 8 teams.
 
VirginiaCavs said:
Ohio State got robbed last year. Committee wouldn‘t exclude Bama if it had lost to Citadel
Click to expand...

Ohio St had 2 losses, one by a ton to a very average team. They have no one to blame but themselves. Same for Alabama had they been left out. Can't say Ohio St got robbed
 
D-Woww said:
howso though? it would get more teams "in" without being something obnoxious like a 16 team playoff, and it would give a team like UCF a chance to show they belong.
Click to expand...

The integrity of the bowl is gone. Doesn't matter how many bad teams get in. If there's no shot, not many bust their butts in the bowl.

Bama vs Oklahoma in week3 has more implications than the Bama vs OU in the Chick-fil-A.
 
gps_3 said:
Ohio St had 2 losses, one by a ton to a very average team. They have no one to blame but themselves. Same for Alabama had they been left out. Can't say Ohio St got robbed
Click to expand...

Lets see what Bama woulda done with osu‘s schedule. Bama lost to its only good opponent, benefitted from not having a conf game. Osu had solid wins
 
Committee is so so so biased towards Bama, they‘ll never be excluded no way. As a viewer i hope they don‘t either frankly
 
If I have to live with a playoff system, I prefer no more than 6 seeded teams, the 5 conference 'ship winners from P5 and 1 from the G5. For travel purposes first round games on campus of 3 and 4 seeds, 2nd round in those pre Christmas bowls, then ship on Jan 1 bowl. Can't expect fan bases to travel to 3 bowl games, asking for 2 as it is kinda sucks. Everyone has a chance at the beginning of the season unless two G5 teams go undefeated, in which case I guess you could have a playoff game between them early. Two one loss G5 teams, that becomes the only time a ranking system plays and that's about what you have to live with while keeping it simple.

But less is more, the at large concept sucks and only invites politics.
 
For that scenario independents would have to be considered part of G5, so in this case a potential ND/UCF playoff game could come into play. Don't like it, join a conference.

Ultimately if that were to lead to the end of conference championships (often times rematches) and it were to blow the system up, I'm down
 
majent said:
they do count, but only if the conf winner is being compared side by side and the team is equal to the team they are being compared to who did NOT win their conf. it is considered as a tiebreaker vs a team who did NOT win their conf, for the purpose of the CFP. the committee's job is to put the 4 best or most deserving teams based on the data they see.

in other words, the committee knows, I know, and you should know, that just because you win your conf it does not mean you are necessarily the best team in that conf or are better than other teams around the country who win a tougher conf or come short in a tougher conference. every year it goes in cycles. some years a conf is up and other years it is down.

surely you can't think the if 5 loss Pittsburgh and/or 4 loss Northwestern catch lightning in a bottle on saturday, that they should automatically catapult dozens of teams that the CFP committee has already deemed are better than they are?

look at the pac 12. very down year. no dominant teams. the winner of that conf has no business anywhere near the playoff, but they are definitely more deserving of a look than Northwestern and Pitt.

tune into the CFP ranking tomorrow and take a glimpse at where they rank Northwestern. it will be very low. losing to Akron will do that to a team.

Pittsburgh? they won't even be in the TOP 25 !!!
Click to expand...

It counts when they perceive teams are equal.
I see no team that has scored 400 more points than they gave up except Bama. And pts against was <200
Clemson is close.
I'm not defending NW, already said that. I'd shaft them for the Akron loss. They did manage 5-0 on the road. That's pretty good for anyone, and were all in conference.

Where it goes is to conference strength, no ever agrees to that.
 
VirginiaCavs said:
Lets see what Bama woulda done with osu‘s schedule. Bama lost to its only good opponent, benefitted from not having a conf game. Osu had solid wins
Click to expand...

Some better wins, but one ultimately disqualifying loss. And given recent history, I can safely assume Alabama wouldn't have lost more than once with OSU's schedule
 
VirginiaCavs said:
Lets see what Bama woulda done with osu‘s schedule. Bama lost to its only good opponent, benefitted from not having a conf game. Osu had solid wins
Click to expand...

last year Bama would not have been blown out at Iowa. that was the problem with Ohio St last year, they had a bad loss. not to mention OU went into columbus and dominated much more than the final score might indicated. i watched that entire game. Sooners controlled it start to finish.

Same thing this year, Ohio State has a bad loss. when two teams have identical win totals, the easiest thing to do is to focus on the loss. a 3 point loss, a 10 point loss, and a 30 point loss, just cannot be looked at the same way. that 4 TD loss at Purdue will haunt them for a long time if it keeps them out of the 'Off
 
pressitup said:
It counts when they perceive teams are equal.
I see no team that has scored 400 more points than they gave up except Bama. And pts against was <200
Clemson is close.
I'm not defending NW, already said that. I'd shaft them for the Akron loss. They did manage 5-0 on the road. That's pretty good for anyone, and were all in conference.

Where it goes is to conference strength, no ever agrees to that.
Click to expand...

agree. the losses to duke and akron will be the anchors that keep them down and out as far as the CFP. their only roles on Sat are to play spoiler to Ohio State and also get a better bowl than usual if they win the game straight up. i like their coach and their qb, and the guts of the team. they have gotten more out of their team the last 10 weeks than just about anyone. started 1-3 then ended up division winner on their side of the B1G. part of that is Wisky being so disappointing this year as well as the heavyweights Mich, OSU, Penn State and Mich St all being in the other division, but credit is due for this team and let's see what they've got on Sat. oddsmakers not giving them much respect...
 
there aren't many here that have the disdain for the Tide like me


But how in the ever living fuck could you leave them out given the criteria?


then even THINK about letting Ohio St in?

Bama is in, regardless


I will take a step back a bit on the ND thing......I just always hate when a team gets in by sitting back ala past years (Bama, being one in 11)
 
twinkie13 said:
there aren't many here that have the disdain for the Tide like me


But how in the ever living fuck could you leave them out given the criteria?


then even THINK about letting Ohio St in?

Bama is in, regardless


I will take a step back a bit on the ND thing......I just always hate when a team gets in by sitting back ala past years (Bama, being one in 11)
Click to expand...

what if by some fluke Bama loses to Georgia by 4 TD's. just think about how that looks to the eye.

then you have OU and tOSU both winning conference championships and having identical 12-1 records to Bama.

so you have Bama who finished runner up in their conf, vs OU and tOSU who are conf champs.

losing late has usually (not always) been a recipe for disaster when chasing a natty in CFB.

i agree with you that Bama should still be in even if they lose to Georgia. i am just throwing out a scenario where they get blown out (saban teams obviously do not)
 
Personally, Georgia doesn't look as strong as last year.
It's the defense, in some cases the offense, but the defense just doesn't look the same to me.
 
booksbestfriend said:
Not a ND fan, but how can you look at their schedule and say it is unfair. They do not duck anyone. It is not their fault teams did not play well. They have name brand teams everywhere on that schedule.
Click to expand...

I didn't say they shouldn't be in the final 4. I just don't think its fair that every other team in contention have to play this week and they get to sit on their ass because they are Notre Dame. Its as unfair to me is UCF being given no chance because they don't pick their schedule and even when they do teams won't play them. Screw Notre Dame, great they went undefeated and beat basically nobody outside of M who was just exposed. Now go play a quality team for another week on a neutral and prove it once more like everybody else has to. Oh, they don't because they are holy ND. Fuck em.
 
If you are in a Power 5 conference you have nothing to complain about. The entire system is rigged in your favor. Notre Dame had to play Ohio State's SOS and go undefeated to this point to be in the discussion.

Power 5 schools got it so easy. Go undefeated in your conference and you make the playoffs. It's all in front of you .. be the best. Moreover, for at least three of the conferences you can even drop a game. Notre Dame cannot drop a game while playing basically an equal schedule.

Anyone trouncing on Notre Dame for their schedule has either made a bad assumption about what their schedule was or they don't know anything about college football.
 
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