Eastern Conference Finals discussion thread

Ironically, speaking of coaches, if Pop doesn't pull Timmay at the end of a finals game a couple years ago, San Antonio has one more title and Lebron has one more finals series loss. And he is one of the best coaches ever. Everyone screws up now and again (referencing the timeout thing with Blatt).
 
One of the major problems with a lot of sports right now is the size of the athletes. The court is really crowded now with these thicker, superior athletes .... and that is without Centers even being a part of pro ball anymore.
 
Oh Wow Kent Bazemore needs to realize he is Kent Bazemore and lucky to be in the league.


BAZEMORE: WE'RE BETTER THAN CAVS

After falling behind 2-0 in the conference finals, the Hawks' Kent Bazemore isn't lacking for confidence: “We played them in the regular season this year and got the best of them. I still think we’re the better team, we just haven’t shown it yet.”
 
braves said:
No, it was a terrible play call to have Lebron inbound the ball. You have to have the defense account for him by being on the floor, maybe over adjust leave another player wide open possibly. Jordan or Kobe would never be inbounding the ball with 2 seconds left.
Click to expand...

Jordan or Kobe aren't the passers that LeBron is and LeBron isn't the shooter that Kobe or Jordan are. LeBron was 9 from 29 from the field that game and he really struggled to make shots from three pointers and mid range during the whole series (aside from Game 5 that wasn't played yet back then).
Today, Blatt was asked about the fact that LeBron passed 8 out of his first 9 assists to three point shots and he said one very true thing about him.
That under pressure, in the playoff game, it's very hard to pass across the floor sometimes for the open three point shooter to begin with. That's amazing already. But Bron's ability, to not only pass, but to pass the way that allows three point shooter to begin his shot the moment that LeBron passes the ball - that extraordinary and that's what LeBron does.
I think that many times, I would prefer LeBron to find the shooter for the crucial shot, than to have someone else finding him for the crucial shot.
If LeBron would have missed that shot, no one ever would have known about the scratched play by LeBron and all that.
Blatt wouldn't have came out and said that we designed a good play and LeBron came and scratched the play, demanded the ball and missed it...
 
ArizonaKid said:
Oh Wow Kent Bazemore needs to realize he is Kent Bazemore and lucky to be in the league.


BAZEMORE: WE'RE BETTER THAN CAVS

After falling behind 2-0 in the conference finals, the Hawks' Kent Bazemore isn't lacking for confidence: “We played them in the regular season this year and got the best of them. I still think we’re the better team, we just haven’t shown it yet.”
Click to expand...

I think it's the right approach. He always was cocky as hell, I remember him in Lakers uniform...
Still, in the playoffs, being down 0 - 2, you can't start thinking that we aren't that good and so on.
 
clowncar said:
One question ... is it possible they are a better team without Love?
Click to expand...

I don't think so. It's very tempting to make this claim, but at the minimum, I would prefer to have Love play the 10 minutes that Jones played, instead of Jones.
Blatt tried to used Mozgov to stretch the floor in Game 2. He made one shot, from almost three point line and missed another one, on the other side. Cleveland needs to stretch the floor and it's not an option with Mozgov and Thompson. Cleveland failed to reach their team total in both games so far.
Love can shoot, but also can grab rebounds and he was improving on defense (both him and Kyrie made an improvement in that area).
Also, Thompson shot 3 - 9 his free throws. Game 1, Hawks did hack a Thompson once. If they did the same thing in closer games, Blatt would have faced with very hard choice between sitting him down or hurt his team flow. You can't do that with Love.
Obviously Love isn't the defender that Thompson is nor the shot blocker that Thompson is.
But, he still better defender and shot blocker than Jones and he is a great rebounder. Don't know if he is as good as Thompson or not, but he is at least very veyr close to him in that ability.
Against GSW, with Green and Bogut in the paint, Love's ability to stretch the floor would have been vital imho.

I think we can say that Love's absence isn't felt in the level that you would expect an absence of max contract player to be felt, but he is missed, I'm sure.

You could ask the same thing about Bosh in Miami, back in Bron's days there.
 
clowncar said:
Wish we had players staying all through college, wish we still had college coaches that taught the game to the best players (most successful college coaches now just roll the ball out ... and they are the ones getting future nba players) and wish we appreciated the pass more as fans too.
Click to expand...

I really wished that players would stay at least 3 years in college before going to the NBA. I realize that they anxious to get paid as soon as possible and that playing two more years in college will cause at least a fraction of them to get injured and not get that chance at all, but the level of the NBA would be so much higher. NBA would get well rounded players with fundamentals.
I'm so tired watching players without basic things. Centers with zero foot work, players that can't shoot free throws, players that can't play zone defense and so on...
We see more and more players, that are draft on raw potential and we are looking at half baked product and waiting for them to get all the things they should have got in college.
Noel, MCW (he played two seasons in college), Gordon and many others - would have been so much better if they spent at least three years in college. You can see the potential, but they are missing so many things...
 
I do think btw, that Cleveland shouldn't have made that Love - Wiggins trade - said it before the trade even.

I also think, that without Kyrie and Love, Cavs are bottom half of the NBA teams on offense, but possibly, best NBA team on defense.

Thompson, Delli, Shumpert, LeBron and Mozgov/Smith - it's hard to find a better defensive unit in the league.
 
divol said:
Jordan or Kobe aren't the passers that LeBron is and LeBron isn't the shooter that Kobe or Jordan are. LeBron was 9 from 29 from the field that game and he really struggled to make shots from three pointers and mid range during the whole series (aside from Game 5 that wasn't played yet back then).
Today, Blatt was asked about the fact that LeBron passed 8 out of his first 9 assists to three point shots and he said one very true thing about him.
That under pressure, in the playoff game, it's very hard to pass across the floor sometimes for the open three point shooter to begin with. That's amazing already. But Bron's ability, to not only pass, but to pass the way that allows three point shooter to begin his shot the moment that LeBron passes the ball - that extraordinary and that's what LeBron does.
I think that many times, I would prefer LeBron to find the shooter for the crucial shot, than to have someone else finding him for the crucial shot.
If LeBron would have missed that shot, no one ever would have known about the scratched play by LeBron and all that.
Blatt wouldn't have came out and said that we designed a good play and LeBron came and scratched the play, demanded the ball and missed it...
Click to expand...

The type of passing you are talking about is bron in the open court, that is completely different from a side inbound with a guy jumping around in your face with two seconds left. You don't need John Stockton for the latter.

You have to have him on the court and have the defense defend him. There is no rationalization for the timeout or this.
 
These coaches and players fairly or unfairly are judged by what they do in critical moments under pressure.. Blatt botched the end of that game, and I think it is very fair to question his ability to coach and lead at the most pressure moments of a game.. He can redeem himself
 
Maybe you're right about inbound pass, but you need two things - size and court vision and LeBron has both.
They also had LeBron inbounding the ball to Mozgov as I said to finish one of the quarters and they made the basket.
I'm not saying I would have ran the same play, with LeBron inbounding. I'm just saying that it has some logic, that we can agree or disagree, but it has some logic behind it.
Shaq said it correctly after the game. LeBron shouldn't be compared to Jordan, but to Magic.

As for Blatt and games endings, I partially agree.
I feel that Blatt doesn't feel strong enough to tell LeBron to pass the f*cking ball and stop playing isolations. The last thing he wants, is LeBron saying that he scratched another one of his plays to do his own thing...
Maccabi under Blatt won both games in Euroleague Final 4 last year, with last minute comeback from behind and winning in the final seconds.
To be honest, I was never impressed with Blatt ingame coaching and far more impressed with the way he prepares his teams to the game. In the NBA, it's the other way around. He starts the game in a way that I feel is wrong and makes amazing adjustments during the game.
I do think he panicked a bit in the end of Game 4 against the Bulls. They had very comfortable lead and the whole team, including LeBron and Blatt, suddenly started to make huge mistakes on both ends of the floor.
I never claimed that Blatt is perfect. I'm not even sure he is the best coach in Europe. I think that he, Messina and Obradovic are top 3 coaches and I don't know how to rate them between the first three places.
I just know that he should deserve credit for the way he been handling his team in his first NBA Playoffs and it really annoys me that when he should be blamed, he catches heat from everyone. When it's time to give him credit, you hardly see anyone doing that.


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[TD="bgcolor: #000032, colspan: 4, align: center"]GAME[/TD]
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[TD="class: linesMLine, bgcolor: #E6EEFB"] 1.250[/TD]
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I think that Hawks should bounce back. They will play for their pride, knowing that it's their final shot to do something.
Kyrie probably will sit out this one as well and the line is just wrong.
GSW were 9.5 points favorites at home and -1.5 on the road.
That's 8 points. Cleveland went from +3 to -8.5. That's 11.5 points!

I know that Cleveland won both games in Atlanta easily, much easier than final result suggests, but still... no way that with Kyrie and Love, Cleveland should have been 8.5 points favorites against the Hawks, but without them? I expected 5-6 points, not more than that here.
 
Wizards wouldve really given the cavs a tough time... the hawks guards have been absolute trash


the problem with the backing the hawks now is that they have no life or belief in their game... on top of nagging injuries and only one day between games... cant do it
 
emkee said:
Can you elaborate ?
Click to expand...


Sorry I didn't respond.... This is my communication with him today.... Take it however you want

"How bout lets just scratch the ecf and wcf because it doesn't matter anymore...
Or just give cavs the title to end to regular season so I don't have to watch this bs
Great way to destroy the Hawks was screwing them on the picks and call them illegal or moving screens
But no calls the other way, too biased.
I just wish refs gave Atl a fair chance in games 1 and 2"
 
Don't think so, Korver was good Game 2 and he is the only one, that still gets respect from Cavs from deep.
Cavs begged Hawks to shoot the ball. Going under screens and giving them not an inch, but a mile to shoot and Hawks shot themselves out of the game.

I love the Under in Game 3, if Kyrie and Korver are out. Two good on offense, but huge defensive liabilities.
 
divol said:
Don't think so, Korver was good Game 2 and he is the only one, that still gets respect from Cavs from deep.
Cavs begged Hawks to shoot the ball. Going under screens and giving them not an inch, but a mile to shoot and Hawks shot themselves out of the game.

I love the Under in Game 3, if Kyrie and Korver are out. Two good on offense, but huge defensive liabilities.
Click to expand...


Outstanding!
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[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]4-11[/TD]
[TD]2-6[/TD]
[TD]2-2[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]-12[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
 
divol said:
Don't think so, Korver was good Game 2 and he is the only one, that still gets respect from Cavs from deep.
Cavs begged Hawks to shoot the ball. Going under screens and giving them not an inch, but a mile to shoot and Hawks shot themselves out of the game.

I love the Under in Game 3, if Kyrie and Korver are out. Two good on offense, but huge defensive liabilities.
Click to expand...

If forcing a shot attempt every time one receives the ball is playing well, then yeah he did.

Hawks the most exposed team of the playoffs, although the refs have really broken down their offense which is built on screens. Never seen a team flagged so much on offense for illegal picks etc.
 
B.A.R. said:
That is fine and dandy but he was -12 and shot 4-11...that isn't good...he contributed nothing else..
Click to expand...


Think your forgetting about Korver's expertise as a help side defender.


[video=youtube;ax3Gdg4Hr3k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax3Gdg4Hr3k[/video]
 
I agree. Korver being out is a good thing right now. He can't do anything but catch and shoot 3s and teams have figured how to neutralize him. The problem is Teague and Schroeder aren't doing enough to push this Hawks team



the Hawks should have some help from tony brothers tonight
 
You all are sure that Korver's absence is a good thing, please tell me one thing - who is going to space the floor?
Cleveland went under the screen against any player but Korver. He is also the only Hawk, that Cleveland didn't leave on three point line, to bring help from the wing.
Cleveland are going to close the paint and let the Hawks shoot themselves out of the game again.
If this time, the three pointers will somehow go in, Hawks will have a shot, if not, another easy blowout...
 
divol said:
I think that Hawks should bounce back. They will play for their pride, knowing that it's their final shot to do something.
Kyrie probably will sit out this one as well and the line is just wrong.
GSW were 9.5 points favorites at home and -1.5 on the road.
That's 8 points. Cleveland went from +3 to -8.5. That's 11.5 points!

I know that Cleveland won both games in Atlanta easily, much easier than final result suggests, but still... no way that with Kyrie and Love, Cleveland should have been 8.5 points favorites against the Hawks, but without them? I expected 5-6 points, not more than that here.
Click to expand...

I agree with this it seems they're using an 8/8.5 number and now they come up with going from +3 to -8.5 is out of wack. But there are different circumstances as the series moves on. Atlanta has been exposed. the ref's are of no help we knew that going in. The injury a little over reation but the change in number is not all injury because what happen to Korver it's like he went home for the playoffs anyway. So now tell me your not betting the Hawks? This series has sweep all over it and it looks like to me Cleveland can win by whatever number they want and I believe they want to put this team away and keep up with the warriors in terms of rest which is needed
 
If Kyrie is out, I like Cleveland Under first of all, overall Under second option and Hawks as third option, but if Kyrie is playing, I think Hawks ATS is the best choice here.
I do think that Hawks will put up a fight. This is a team that shouldn't quit that easily or at least this is my feeling of the series.
So far, I read this series pretty well, so I just hope to continue to do so...
 
I agree Korver being out is probably a good thing for the Hawks. He is a big liability on defense and when he's not at his best (and he clearly wasnt lately), he is not worth it. Bazemore is a feisty guy who can play, and should bring some energy to the team. I expect Hawks to show up tonight, they choked in first two games, now with pressure off and nothing to lose, they should be able to make it a game.
 
fwiw - Cleveland's 1st half averages

home - 103.4 ppg
away - _99.4 ppg

and their 2nd half averages...

home - 96.2 ppg
away - 84.5 ppg

Almost a 16 pt difference overall, and almost 12 pts diff. for the 2nd h alone.
 
HUNT said:
With love and kyrie tho right?
Click to expand...

Their game totals have remained higher at home, no matter who has played for or against them. My focus wouldn't be on the total size of the averages posted, but first & foremost on the differences between the totals. The games in Atl totaled 186 & 176 pts with the players they currently have playing (both 1st halves surpassing 100 pts, & I think that G2 total is deceiving in so far as that game's 4th qtr only totaled 26 pts, a horribly rare manifestation by the standards of any CF situation). I don't think a FG total of 189/190 here provides any great adv. for Under bettors.
 
Spread tells the story, imo. Cavs defense too stifling, LBJ should come out alpha once again.

Why fuck around in Game 3 after watching what the Dubs did last night.

Cavs and Warriors on a collision course, if the league decides to make it exciting tonight so be it.
 
Wow! LeBron with 0 - 9 from the field after first quarter! Worst ever start for LeBron in a playoff game!
 
emkee said:
Fight early, fade late.

Ed Malloy is incompetent.
Click to expand...

Not sure I agree. Both teams came with a lot of energy. Obviously Hawks can fade, but in win or go home game, if you don't kill desperate rival early, he can get confidence and hang in there till the end. I at least hope so :)
 
Delli thinks he is Kyrie, just because he is replacing him in the starting line up? :)
LeBron with 10 shots, Delli with 9 shots, the rest of the team with 12 shots... Something is wrong with the pecking order...
 
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