Division Series Discussion

GWarner27

Meatballin' in Celtics Stadium
Come one, come all cuz I'm back bitches and an all weekend rave in Atlanta didn't kill me
me

finished the season +1.5u after a high-water mark of +18 and a low of -7 early in the season after a terrible start. Lost both futures, Rays to win the AL East and Pirates RSW u91

Currently very interested in the A's and Dodgers to win their series, think the Rays have value if they make it despite getting owned by the Sox this year and also gotta pick the Cardinals even though they really hurt my under

Leans:
OAK u6.5 g1
OAK +145 series
 
Close to impossible that the Braves could beat the Dodgers in a 5 game series

Funny to see this coming from a braves avatar but I agree. Not paying 50 cents without last AB in three of the five

Talk me off the A's? I don't love going against mad max and Zoolander the first two with fat Bart and a rookie, but the bullpen advantage is huge and I love the way this Oakland team is built for the playoffs
 
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possible SI ho jinx for the Bravos??
 
Ya I played Oak for the series small +140


Shadows at Busch have been a big issue for 3-4pm games.....consider Under of F5 Under.
 
My take on a couple of series I'll be targeting (mostly live, when poss).

I think the Cards are not as good as their record suggests: they hit insanely well w/2 out & RISP for much of the reg. season, and stunk when their hitting in that spot came back to Earth for a period. I think Pitt gets an opponent that holds no unknowns for them, to me that's going to mean a lot for their mindset in their first playoff series in forever. The Cards 2 recent p.s. efforts came as the WC holder = nothing expected of them. Now they're a division winner facing a bunch of perennial losers, a much different dynamic. They're the team with a lot to lose this time round.

Reg. Season Pitching
PIT 3.55 rpg ... +0.13 runs
STL 3.68 rpg

Reg. Season Batting
PIT 3.93 rpg
STL 4.83 rpg ... +0.90 runs

They went 10-10 SU in the reg. season, with a whopping 14 games (7 Ws each) decided by 4+ run margins, and only 6 (3 Ws each) decided by 1-2 run margins (5 x 1 run, 1 x 2 runs). But to my mind Pitt's fumbling down of their division crown the stretch of the reg. season was due to their grasping for a post season place in the shadow of their recent loser history. IMO there's no way that burden/knowledge didn't affect their performance (SD and it's lousy road record taking 3 straight off them in Pitt at a time when the division was still possibly theirs to win says all I need to know personally). It's during this period that the Cards pretty much annihilated them (3 straight wins by 4+ runs) in their last reg. season series, thereby evening up the season ledger.
In the series between the 2 teams prior to Pitt feeling that end-of-reg-season-closing-in playoff-qualifying pressure, Pitt lost only 3 of 17 games by 5+ run margins to the Cards. In that last series, they lost 2 of 3 games by 5+ runs. And that's not mentioning the fact that in every other series barring the last won they either recorded at least 2 wins, or a win & at least 1 x 1-run loss. Furthermore, 1 Cards win came in Game 5 of a series which included a make-up game, with Pitt off 4 wins. Hardly unnatural for a team to find it difficult to lift themselves for a 5th straight game in 4 days (since 2 of those Pitt wins came in a DH) against an extremely capable & motivated divisional rival, so that's a Cards win I'm willing to write off as all but meaningless (the 13-0 scoreline demonstrates how much energy Pitt put into the affair). Thus doing so, to me the season record between the 2 teams more accurately reads 10-6 when involving fully functioning Pitt team.

Minus those 4 results I just highlighted (rightly or wrongly, some might not agree with my methodology), the Cards went...

3-2 in Game 1s (2-0 @home)
0-5 in Game 2s (0-2 @home)
3-2 in Game 3s (1-1 @home)
0-1 in Game 4s

These adjusted stats show Pitt pretty much dominated the early goings on in the 5 series concerned, winning 3 of them and suffering a total of 3 x 1-run losses in the 2 series they lost. To my mind, they were a hop skip & a jump away from dominating the Cards this season. The question is can they breach that distance in a playoff atmosphere.

I think Pitt will get a split in St. Lou (it should be noted that STL has split the 1st 2 games of their 5 p.s. series from the last 2 years), then finish the series at their place. If not, it goes 5.



On balance I expect this Red Sox/Tampa series to be a battle royal. I stated around about the time they were tied or thereabouts for the division lead that I felt Tampa would come away with the title & that the Sox would only be good enough for the WC. The latter's mettle is what surprised me and upset my expectations, but, as it takes 2 to tango, it would be remiss of me to not observe that I was equally surprised by Tampa's lethargic(?)/loose(?)/weak(?) play from almost the moment they briefly tied for that AL East lead through until they reached that O's/Yankee scheduling sequence (a 9-16 SU run). It's not like they had to navigate a brutal schedule, w/13 of those 25 games against sub .500 teams, and another 5 against struggling +.500 teams (NYY & TEX: indeed, Texas had lost 9 of 10 entering their 4 game set with Tampa, yet still managed a 2-2 split).

In their last 38 reg. season games (25-13 SU), Boston only suffered 1 loss greater than 3 runs (vs. an NL team in a series sandwiched alongside 28 games vs AL teams), going 6-2 SU against the 3 best teams they faced during this period (Detroit, Tampa & the Dodgers). This team feels like it has a level of chemistry it only last possessed from the '07 & '08 campaigns. Of course that '08 campaign died at the hands of none other than the Rays.
While the Rays have performed well enough in dispatching the Rangers & Tribe to get to this ALDS (thou neither of those latter teams were peddling anything but fool's gold), of more concern to me is the fact that they couldn't wrap up their WC playoff spot in that final series vs Toronto in anything like an emphatic fashion with their season literally on the line (losing the first 2 games of that series by 3 & 5 runs, and only winning the 3rd - by 1 run - on the back of a 6 run 1st): winning in Boston isn't going to be any easier a prospect for them than it was in Toronto. Outside of their consecutively sweeping the O's & Yankees (7-0 SU) late down the stretch, Tampa went a miserable 13-18 SU in the other 31 games which made up their own final 38 games of the reg. season.

Reg. Season Pitching
TBY 3.94 rpg ... +0.11 runs
BOS 4.05 rpg

Reg. Season Batting
TBY 4.29 rpg
BOS 5.27 rpg ... +0.98 runs

Red Sox won the season series 12-7 SU, going 4-1 SU in games decided by 1 run margins & 3-1 SU in games decided by 2 run margins. In short, the Red Sox dominated the competitive games, while each team won 5 games by 3+ run margins. In specific games, Boston went...

4-2 in Game 1s (2-1 @home)
5-1 in Game 2s (3-0 @home)
3-3 in Game 3s (1-2 @home)
& 0-1 in an isolated make-up game.

Clearly these stats betray the fact Boston inevitably got a fast start on Tampa almost always (hence the Sox winning 5 of the 6 reg. season series between the 2 sides).


I think this series goes 5. If it doesn't, then Tampa in 4 or Boston in 3.
 
great stuff,bc!

do you or does anyone have stats how rested vs. rusty teams fare at the beginning of the post season?
or is it pretty much irrelevant?
 
Really quiet in here. Didn't see this thread.

The Rays are in a pretty big disadvantage having to play on such short rest after playing two do or die games, even though they were cake.

Leaning Boston RL on Friday
 
do you or does anyone have stats how rested vs. rusty teams fare at the beginning of the post season?
or is it pretty much irrelevant?

Sorry, Steve. I haven't collated such stats. I don't think it's hard to guess that a team off for 3+ days would be at some sort of (minor) disadvantage (but only for the initial innings).

----------------

I have to say that I've never seen such a start to a post season. 5 games (incl. the Tex/Tby game, which although was designated a reg. season game I think can, with little reservation, be included in the following stats) in, and thus far...

- all 5 Favs have won SU & covered the runline
- every Fav has led by at least 3-0 before the Dog has managed to score its first run
- not one game has been decided by a 1-2 run margin

In all my time tracking post season stats, I've never seen such a strong start by the Favs. In my experience, divisional series (esp.) have seemed to be a time when the dogs deliver almost as often as the Favs do. With this in mind, 4 games Thurs. means tread carefully if you're fancying a number of Favs. An 9-0 start by them is obv. not *impossible*, but historically extremely unlikely (normally a 4 game playoff day you'd expect roughly 1-2 dogs anyway, but - given that heavy Fav bias so far - even a complete sweep by them here wouldn't be out of place, as some sort of return to the mean).
 
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1 stand out total stat for Fri. - Tampa @Boston = 14-0 to Under last 14 meetings

That to me is an ugly stat to have in play if you like Under in either Game 1 or 2. John Q Public's already thinking playoff ball means Unders, and now he's got this stat to support his over-generalised thinking (suprisingly blankets has avoided including it in their match-up page, posting a more extended version of 21-6 to Under last 27 meetings there).

Looking at the 10 Unders in Boston this season, it's striking to me that no losing team totaled more than 2 runs (& only 3 of 10 losers managed even that number). The 4 Unders stretching back into last season all had the loser scoring at least 2 runs. It's hardly rocket science to realise total results come down almost always to how the loser performs offensively. In 10 games thus far this season, the loser basically hasn't shown up.

As far as the pitchers go, I don't trust Lester, who remains hit-or-miss in my mind (Gump's box of choccies, you never know what you're going to get). As for Moore, while the stat line from a relatively recent Fenway start looks good, Boston had just finished beating the Yankees in extras in a series rubber the night before, which I think goes some way to explaining one of their rare home shutout losses. In his 1 start in Tampa (a less friendly park for offense compared to Fenway), the Sox tagged him for 3 ERs in 6.0 IP.

IMO the loser is going to grab 2 minimum here, and I'd frankly be suprised if they didn't bottom out at 3. If the latter, there's only 1 scoreline an Under bet could possibly win with in light of a 7.5 line. Tampa's bats are humming, and the Sox offense at home in their first playoff game in quite sometime (& esp. off last season's fiasco)? I'd be suprised if they were kept silent under such conditions.
 
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A few things Sox - Rays:

• The Rays have won 10 of 12 games.

• The Sox, while indeed 12-7 against the Rays, won six of those games in the ninth inning or later. That includes three walk-offs at Fenway.

• The run differential between the teams was only 14 runs over 19 games.

• The Rays were 24 of 158 (.152) with runners in scoring position against the Sox. Even a slight improvement could favor the Rays as the games have been so close this season.

• The Red Sox hit .209 with a .612 OPS against the Rays and averaged 3.7 runs. Outside of David Ortiz and Mike Carp (in 14 at-bats), none of the Sox hit better than .242 against the Rays. That OPS was their lowest against any opponent this season.

Obviously the last 2 points explain the significant under bias this season.
 
Anyone know why Moore has so much success against the righties for Boston despite overall, being worse against righties than lefties?
 
cole has pitched well these last few months but he has had the pleasure of facing the cubs, pads, and brewers all twice! getting thu 6-7 innings never even getting to 100 pitches, biggest start of his life and he stepping way up in class against a group that will work counts and put him in high stress situations..i dont exactly trust lynn but i know he will throw 110 pitches like it isnt nothing to grind his way thru 6 and keep cards in the gm, then he can hand it over to the flamethrowers in the pen.. coming into this series i planned on hammering cards gm 1 then passing gm2 cause thought pit could steal it, def betting buccos in gm 3 cause liriano flat out owns the cards, then would bet cards 4 and 5..have kinda switched up my thought process and am going smallish on stl today and lean over but i have been miserable with totals thus far this postseason..
 
Made three plays on the early game (all somewhat correlated):

Pirates +115
Over 7 -120
Pirates TT over 3 -145

BOL
J
 
Need 5 dimes as an out. Minus 35 there. Good thread. Need to check it now that i see it.
 
Funny to see this coming from a braves avatar but I agree. Not paying 50 cents without last AB in three of the five

Talk me off the A's? I don't love going against mad max and Zoolander the first two with fat Bart and a rookie, but the bullpen advantage is huge and I love the way this Oakland team is built for the playoffs



You and your not willing to pay 50 cent methods.. LOL

So if a play should be -240 and you're getting -150, you won't play it? Thats a horrible mindset and any smart gambler would tell you that..

Many smart gamblers give large juice, almost all of them if its merited.
 
Anyone know of a good link to watch the first game?? I have TBS for the others.

On the Pirates, Rays and Dodgers today.
 
went with the under 7.5 even in boston

both pitchers have good numbers vs the opposing hitters and both teams have a solid rested bullpen... 3-2 someone

hope rays lose though
 
You and your not willing to pay 50 cent methods.. LOL


So if a play should be -240 and you're getting -150, you won't play it? Thats a horrible mindset and any smart gambler would tell you that..


Many smart gamblers give large juice, almost all of them if its merited.


Never had success with it so I pass, not my cup of tea
 
Playoff count after 9 games (incl. Tex/Tby)

Favs SU: 8-1
Favs RL: 6-3
O/U .. -: 6-3 (this despite only 1 losing team scoring more than 2 runs)
 
Locked in tb -115 game 2.

Price at Fenway is an auto bet for me.


took rays +195 series, this is their series shot in a nutshell today, its basically betting on price, then getting home tied with i think at least a split at home and worst case G5 with price again at fenway.
 
the main reasons i dont do series wagers is because i have terrible lines and i always end up thinking about hedging which is just silly
 
Playoff count after 13 games (incl. Tex/Tby)

Favs SU: 10-3
Favs RL: 8-5
O/U .. -: 9-4

But there's a real contrast between leagues -

AL
Favs SU: 4-2
Favs RL: 3-3
O/U .. -: 2-4

NL
Favs SU: 6-1
Favs RL: 5-2
O/U .. -: 7-0
 
In post #7 I covered my thoughts on a couple of series. Since both of which could end tomorrow, here's my (updated) take on matters:


Boston/Tampa

4-2 in Game 1s (2-1 @home)
5-1 in Game 2s (3-0 @home)
3-3 in Game 3s (1-2 @home)
& 0-1 in an isolated make-up game.

Clearly these stats betray the fact Boston inevitably got a fast start on Tampa almost always (hence the Sox winning 5 of the 6 reg. season series between the 2 sides).

So far, so good as far as these stats go. They said Boston dominated games 1 & 2 between the 2 teams during the reg. season, and the change to playoff ball did nothing to interrupt the reality of those tendencies. Now the reg. season tendencies indicate game 3s have been a lot more even.

Statistical comparisons aside, one has to wonder where the Rays players' heads are at. Via their supposed strength (pitching), they've conceded more than 9 times as many runs to the Sox in 2 playoff games as they conceded in their 2 previous (sudden death) playoff games (vs. Tex & Cle). Maybe the nature of this game being sudden death will get them back into that previous groove. Or maybe they're mentally shot at this point, given the beat down they've endured in this series thus far has simply been business as sual when it's come to mfacing the Sox this season, and at this point they just feel nothing they try is enough against this particular opponent. Personally I can't find an advantage anywhere in this game. No side or total result would suprise me (I can find valid scenarios for all 4 combinations)


Pittsburgh/Saint Louis

I think the Cards are not as good as their record suggests: they hit insanely well w/2 out & RISP for much of the reg. season, and stunk when their hitting in that spot came back to Earth for a period.

Before I offer my .02, here's an article which more generally substantiates that earlier quote -

View attachment 32999

So, how have the Cards fared from this angle thus far in the playoffs? (I've excluded all pitcher ABs from the following stats for both teams) -

Overall w/RISP
3-17 (.176) + 3 BBs & 2 HBPs
9 RBIs
15 LOB

w/0 out & RISP
2-5 (.400) + 2 BBs & 1 HBP
7 RBIs
3 LOB

w/1 out & RISP
1-5 (.200)
2 RBIs
4 LOB

w/2 out & RISP
0-7 + 1 BBs & 1 HBP
8 LOB

In relation to their reg. season form, their playoff efforts w/RISP could be described as useless as tits on a bull. Outside of their 7 run 3rd inning of Game 1, these guys have averaged (sans pitcher ABs) .071 (1-14, 14 LOB) w/RISP, and have not had a single RBI with 2 out. One wonders that if Pitt hadn't started a guy who simply licks huge hairy ones @Busch Stadium (I mean, seriously, what decent pitcher gives up 7 runs without getting an out in a playoff game?), then they might easily have already won this series with a sweep.

What about the butt-Pirates?

Overall w/RISP
6-17 (.353) + 2 IBBs (Interestingly, Pitt hasn't earnt a non-intentional walk w/RISP)
9 RBIs (incl. 2 sac flies)
12 LOB
(+ 2 IBBs)

w/0 out & RISP
0-2 (.176)
2 LOB

w/1 out & RISP
4-8 (.500) + 1 IBB
6 RBIs (incl. 2 sac flies)
4 LOB

w/2 out & RISP
2-7 (.286) + 1 IBB
3 RBIs
6 LOB

No guessing where this series is currently being won & lost.


And that leads to my play for Monday: Under 7.5 ...

(1) Pittsburgh playing a home game off a home game this season has gone 41-25-3 to Under. As this series has progressed and come closer to a resolution, so the winner's score has dropped (befitting the players tightening up with less guaranteed days left to play): 9 to 7 to 5 runs. While I don't think it's by anyway "automatic" that Monday's winner therefore scores 4 or less, I'm quite willing to guess that 5-6 runs will be likely ceiling to earn the W. From this assertion, this season with Pitt in this @home-off-home spot...

Winning team scored >6 runs: 11-1 to Over
Winning team scored <7 runs: 40-14-3 to Under (70.2% rate of cashing)

Winning team scored >5 runs: 17-4 to Over
Winning team scored <6 runs: 37-8-3 to Under (77.1% rate of cashing)

Based on reg. season results re this spot, this game containing a lot of runs faces quite significant inertia.


(2) Muscle memory/Psychological memories: the last post season memories the Cards have aren't of winning a WS, but rather of losing the last 3 straight games they played (the final 2 on the road), and in doing so scoring only 1 total run while doing so (& never having had a lead). Can anyone say Groundhog (Mon)day? What is it about their ice-cold hitting stats offered above that says their loss-to-San-Fran template isn't be reapplied here? If the answer is because they're facing Morton (given their general success against him this season)...


(3) Morton has 3 starts against the Cards this season: 1 good start, away (6.0 IP/2 ERs) & 2 bad ones, h&a (total 7.2 IP/10 ERs/11.73 ERA). In post #7, I excused 4 results from Pitts reg. season record against St Lou. due to the circumstances behind said games (doing so with no forethought that they'd apply to this coming game 4 in this way). Guess whose bad starts comprise half of those exceptional games? Due those those circumstances, I'm willing to chuck out/ignore those bad outings by Morton, an "act" underpinned by St. Lou's RISP batting falling off so dramatically come playoff pressure time. He got hammered when the Cards were doing something that had never been done before w/RISP. Now he faces them having fallen way off of that peak.

FTR, Morton pitching for Pitt vs St Lou. prior to '13 -
in '12: 1 good start (home, 5.1 IP/1 ER) & 1 bad one (away, 4.1 IP/5 ER)
in '11: 2 good starts (away, 6.0 IP/1 ER; home, 7.0 IP/3 ER), & 2 bad ones (home, 5.1 IP/3 ER; away, 4.1 IP/5 ER)
in '10: 1 good start (home, 6.0 IP/2 ER) & 1 bad one (away, 6.0 IP/4 ER)
in '09: 1 good one (home, 5.0 IP/1 ER)

Overall that's an ERA of 3.89 @home, which drops to 3.13 excepting Pitt's 13-0 loss after winning 4 games straight against them the previous 3 days.


(4) The NL is 7-0 to Over thus far these playoffs. I don't recall ever seeing either league welcome the Championship series phase without having paid out on at least 1 Under beforehand (which isn't to say it hasn't happened, but if it has I'd not hesitate to bet steroid use underpinned the occurrence), so I have to think a regression to a totals mean is coming. Looking at the NL games tomorrow in light of this belief, Pitt/St Lou stands out above La/Atl as being the more likely scenario to deliver an Under, both from the pitching match-up & series-situation points of view. One series feels a lot more tighter than the other, despite both series each having had only 1 tight scoreline. Tighter, more competitive ball is what obv. makes for Unders.


(5) Under being "too obvious" here? The last 14 meetings between these 2 teams have gone 10-3-1 to Over; the playoffs generally are 9-4 to Over (anyone not aware of the NL's complete bias still won't be missing the point). There's also Morton's ugly stats that no doubt wannabe-Over bettors will latch onto (writing off his 1 good start as an anomaly?), as well as telling themselves "the Cards bats are due" (surely their best-of-all-time RISP numbers can't possibly disappear for 3 straight games), and currently blankets shows 57% public picks for Over. Lots of surface stuff selling runs in this game.


(6) You need more? GTFO, already.
 
Pirates have the lowest BA in MLB vs the changeup.. Wacha's best pitch is the changeup and it is one of best in baseball. Cards have rocked Chuck Morton.. Gonna be tough on the road but at near pick em, I'll take experience in the decided itching advantage..
 
posted this in the in-game

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[TR="class: cms_table_TrGameOdd, bgcolor: #FDF5E6"]
[TD="width: 10%, align: left"]Oct 07[/TD]
[TD]851[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]PIRATES (SERIES)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-250<input type="checkbox" name="text_" value="4_671894_0_-250" style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px; font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif;">[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
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[/TR]
[TR="class: cms_table_TrGameOdd, bgcolor: #FDF5E6"]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]3:05 PM[/TD]
[TD]852[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]CARDINALS (SERIES)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]+230<input type="checkbox" name="text_" value="5_671894_0_230" style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px; font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif;">
[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

Great price to take the Cards if you have confidence in them. Just gotta get today's game. Wacha looked great in that almost no hitter he had and he can get it done today. Then you'll have Wainright at home in game 5 to close it out. But obvious you need to get the win today which is harder said then done. But Cards +230 to win the series is a pretty good bet IMO.
 
posted this in the in-game

[TABLE="class: cms_table, width: 100%, align: center"]
<tbody>[TR="class: cms_table_TrGameOdd, bgcolor: #FDF5E6"]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cms_table_TrGameOdd, bgcolor: #FDF5E6"]
[TD="width: 10%, align: left"]Oct 07[/TD]
[TD]851[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]PIRATES (SERIES)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]-250<input type="checkbox" name="text_" value="4_671894_0_-250" style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px; font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif;">[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cms_table_TrGameOdd, bgcolor: #FDF5E6"]
[TD="align: left"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]3:05 PM[/TD]
[TD]852[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]CARDINALS (SERIES)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]+230<input type="checkbox" name="text_" value="5_671894_0_230" style="margin: 0px; padding: 1px; font-family: Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif;">
[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

Great price to take the Cards if you have confidence in them. Just gotta get today's game. Wacha looked great in that almost no hitter he had and he can get it done today. Then you'll have Wainright at home in game 5 to close it out. But obvious you need to get the win today which is harder said then done. But Cards +230 to win the series is a pretty good bet IMO.

Good find. You could risk even $ on Pitt today and put 1/2 on St. Louis for the series. Most likely worst case scenario is break-even. If Pitt wins today you profit 1/2 unit.
 
Seems kind of ballsy by don, especially with how well they have been swinging the bats
 
Either way your now asking the braves to beat grienke and kershaw back to back, about a 2%chance that happens
 
kershaw can now pitch on saturday which would be game 2 i think

if the braves beat up on nolasco and the dodgers advanced on wednesday kershaw couldn't pitch until next week
 
Mattingly walked Reed Johnson to face Heyward with the bases loaded and a 1 run deficit in Game 2, so yeah he's not the sharpest manager. Braves are starting Freddy Garcia, right ?

Personally think he should have stuck with Nolasco and had Kershaw go in Game 1 of the NLCS.
 
Just saw Mattingly's birthday is shared with Hitler. Yeah, lets invade Russia with no anticipation for needing winter clothing (of course, that sentence could've stopped after "yeah, let's invade Russia). Yeah, lets start my best weapon for the first time in his career on 3 days rest when there's no imperative for it. Dumbasses & their decisions.
 
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