CASH
Pretty much a regular
nah but great conspiracy theory..... probably best deal on the table,, take the first hit or have it drag out in the public eye....
20 PED Suspension incoming (Braun, Arod.....)
- Thread starter guaranteeed
- Start date
nah but great conspiracy theory..... probably best deal on the table,, take the first hit or have it drag out in the public eye....
CASH
Pretty much a regular
suspended without pay,, some of it should go to that guy..
KowboyKarl
Live. Breathe. Blue.
...or write him a check.
KowboyKarl
Live. Breathe. Blue.
Lol...exactly
nbafan88
Pretty much a regular
well im not sure how it all got started but thats done... selig is just trying to put a good spin on his legacy... which is not happening
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Lareux
Guest
It all got started when, during an interview with McGwire at his locker, someone noticed a bottle of Andro in the locker.
CASH
Pretty much a regular
lawyers lining up to represent this guy vs. Braun and MLB..
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tipyerbartender1
Guest
In a perfect world, Braun would be banned from MLB for life, simply for being an ass.
CASH
Pretty much a regular
well wouldn't guys like Babe ruth, ty cobb and others who were an known as an "ass" be banned?
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tipyerbartender1
Guest
I got no problem with those guys.
imgn
Pretty much a regular
Damn right..and part of his penalty should include some type of compensation for the fed-ex driver that was let go cuz of Brauns bs
KowboyKarl
Live. Breathe. Blue.
Is that really how this all got started?
Coverdatspred
Curious About George Costanza‘s Modeling Career
Fuck this lying scumbag. Looked directly into our eyes at his presser and lied to us all. Stole the MVP from Kemp that season and should be forced to had it over like I said on page one of this thread. He got off easy.
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Lareux
Guest
Most definitely
Coverdatspred
Curious About George Costanza‘s Modeling Career
Andro was not a banned substance in 98 when a reporter saw it in Big Macs locker but he faced a lot of questions about it. It could be bought over the counter at any vitamin store back then. The story really blew up when Canseco wrote his book and named all the guys that he knew were juicing. Everyone laughed at Jose at the time and dismissed him as crazy but in hindsight he was dead on correct.
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Lareux
Guest
Yep. Andro is a "precursor" to steroids, it helps your body produce more testosterone than normal. There were rumors of course about steroid use, but that andro bottle being seen opened Pandora's box. One thing led to another, as he faced tons of questions about it, and the rest is history.
CAPital
Pretty much a regular
Yup. Not only that but changed the supplement industry forever as well
KowboyKarl
Live. Breathe. Blue.
Somehow I never knew that
Coverdatspred
Curious About George Costanza‘s Modeling Career
I remember it well, one of the first things I did was to go to the GNC and buy some Andro. LOL. I figured if it worked for Mac it couldn't hurt. I took it for like a week and didn't like the effects it was having on me.
Dont quote me on it but I believe Andro is now considered anabolic steroid and is not just a banned substance but is also illegal by law.
Dont quote me on it but I believe Andro is now considered anabolic steroid and is not just a banned substance but is also illegal by law.
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Lareux
Guest
I was in college at the time, and there was a dude on our team who was using Andro. He was f'ing jacked too. The problem was, he was a pitcher who could throw gas but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn cuz he was so jacked up. We nicknamed him BMF (for Bad Mutha' Fucka'). He probably pitched 2 innings in the 2 years he was with us....lol.
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Lareux
Guest
You may be right about this, I'm not sure. I have always wondered if it was still legal. Technically, it's not a steroid so it should be legal, but Cap is right this whole story changed the supplement world forever.
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Lareux
Guest
I read an article not too long ago in which the writer wondered if any of these guys would have been caught taking PEDs/HGH if that bottle of Andro was never seen in McGwire's locker that day. As CDS mentioned, Canseco came out with his book not too long after so it's very possible guys would have still been caught, but maybe his book is given zero credibility (it wasn't given much at the time anyway) if that reporter didn't notice the bottle and start asking questions.
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Lareux
Guest
Research conducted on andro ultimately led to its ban as a supplement. Upon investigating claims made by andro manufacturers that the supplement was completely safe, researchers found these statements to be inaccurate, even hazardous. Institutions like the Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard Medical School and The Food and Drug Administration have all conduct research on Andro. There have been countless confirmations that andro both has limited effects on testosterone levels (300mg increases levels by about 35%), and significantly increases estrogen levels.
While androstenedione is the precursor for testosterone, it is also the precursor for the primary female sex hormone, estrogen. The human body strives to internally maintain a specific ratio of testosterone to estrogen. If one of these hormones’ count increases in the body, the body works to increase the opposite hormone’s count to maintain the proper proportion. In other words, while some andro supplemented into the diet becomes testosterone, a proportional amount also converts to estrogen.
You were right CDS and Cap, it is now banned. I wasn't sure if it was, but it sure is.
While androstenedione is the precursor for testosterone, it is also the precursor for the primary female sex hormone, estrogen. The human body strives to internally maintain a specific ratio of testosterone to estrogen. If one of these hormones’ count increases in the body, the body works to increase the opposite hormone’s count to maintain the proper proportion. In other words, while some andro supplemented into the diet becomes testosterone, a proportional amount also converts to estrogen.
You were right CDS and Cap, it is now banned. I wasn't sure if it was, but it sure is.
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Lareux
Guest
Check out this article from 1998, right after "the bottle" was discovered in McGwire's locker....
Legal in baseball
McGwire uses nutritional supplement banned in NFL
Posted: Saturday August 22, 1998 11:37 AM
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[TD][/TD]
[TD="width: 150"]Androstenedione is not the only pill Big Mac pops, he also uses creatine, which he believes helps him recover faster from daily weightlifting <nobr>AP</nobr>[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
ST. LOUIS (AP) -- Sitting on the top shelf of Mark McGwire's locker, next to a can of Popeye spinach and packs of sugarless gum, is a brown bottle labeled Androstenedione.
For more than a year, McGwire says, he has been using the testosterone-producing pill, which is perfectly legal in baseball but banned in the NFL, Olympics and the NCAA.
No one suggests that McGwire wouldn't be closing in on Roger Maris' home run record without the over-the-counter drug. After all, he hit 49 homers without it as a rookie in 1987, and more than 50 each of the past two seasons.
But the drug's ability to raise levels of the male hormone, which builds lean muscle mass and promotes recovery after injury, is seen outside baseball as cheating and potentially dangerous.
"Everything I've done is natural. Everybody that I know in the game of baseball uses the same stuff I use," said McGwire, who also takes the popular muscle-builder Creatine, an amino acid powder.
However, many other players insist they do not take Androstenedione (pronounced Andro-steen'-die-own), although the use of other supplements is common.
Sammy Sosa, close to McGwire in the homer chase, uses Creatine after games to keep up his weight and strength. For energy before games he takes the Chinese herb ginseng.
But Sosa said he doesn't use Androstenedione or any other testosterone booster. Nor does Boston slugger Mo Vaughn.
"Anything illegal is definitely wrong," Vaughn said. "But if you get something over the counter and legal, guys in that power-hitter position are going to use them. Strength is the key to maintaining and gaining endurance for 162 games. The pitchers keep getting bigger and stronger."
Andres Galarraga, Atlanta's top home run hitter, said he would be "scared" to take a drug like Androstenedione.
"I do my weight [lifting] and take my vitamins. That's it," he said. "You have to be careful what you take. It could cause secondary problems with your body."
Shot putter Randy Barnes, the 1996 Olympic gold medalist and world record-holder, recently drew a lifetime ban for using Androstenedione. Barnes claimed he wasn't told about the ban until after his out-of-competition drug test on April 1. Barnes is appealing the decision.
Baseball bans only illegal drugs as does the NBA, and the reason in both cases has nothing to do with competitive fairness or health. The players associations and management in both sports simply haven't agreed on ways of dealing with the issue.
"Obviously, if there's more research and it's shown that it's harmful, we'll make people aware," baseball spokesman Rich Levin said of Androstenedione.
[TABLE="align: left"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]With 161 home runs in the last three seasons, McGwire became the first player in history to hit 50 home runs in three consecutive seasons <nobr>AP</nobr>[/TD]
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Numerous studies suggest there are dangers associated with drugs that raise testosterone levels -- even if there isn't much research specifically on Androstenedione.
"It's just a fluke of the law that this is totally unstudied," said Dr. John Lombardo of Ohio State, the NFL's adviser on steroids. "There are no adverse-effect studies. There are no efficacy studies. Because the people who produce it never had to do them, thanks to the [federal] supplement act of 1994. Androstenedione is no different than taking testosterone.
"Androstenedione is a steroid," he said. "It has anabolic qualities. Therefore it is an anabolic steroid."
Anabolic steroids have been associated with potentially fatal side effects, including heart attacks, cancers, liver dysfunction, and severe disorders of mood and mental function.
"You can't even buy testosterone with a regular prescription," said Dr. Gary I. Wadler, an expert in supplement use and assistant professor of medicine at Cornell University Medical College. "You have to get a triplicate prescription. It's a controlled substance by an act of Congress. The schizophrenia of all this is, product A, which is over the counter, becomes product B, which is a controlled substance."
Creatine, which the 34-year-old McGwire believes helps him recover faster from daily weightlifting, is purported to increase muscle energy and mass. Long-term effects of the powder are unknown. It has been known to lead to muscle tears and cramps due to dehydration.
"I've been using Creatine for about four years," said the 6-foot-5, 245-pound McGwire, who played for the U.S. baseball team at the 1984 Olympics. "It's a good thing. It helps strength. It helps recovery.
"I think Creatine is getting a bad rap now because people abuse it," he said. "That's the problem. It says to take one to two scoops a day. People started taking 15 or 20. If you abuse anything you're going to hurt yourself. If you just use common sense, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's a form of eating red meat."
Chicago Cubs trainer David Tumbas said he doesn't recommend Creatine but doesn't tell players not to take it. He asked the players in spring training if they were using it or similar supplements, and about 10 said they were. He added, though, that he believes no one on the Cubs is taking Androstenedione.
"Our belief is still rest, nutrition, plenty of hydration and exercise are all you need," Tumbas said.
The IOC added Androstenedione to its lengthy banned list last December after it found the pills and various steroids being hawked on the Internet by a company called Price's Power International of Newport News, Va. The company, which offered the product for $49.95 a bottle and gave tips on how to avoid detection, claimed Androstenedione helps build lean muscle mass "faster than ever imagined."
But that's hardly the only place where "Andro," as it is popularly called, is available. Great Earth Vitamin stores, a chain of 138 franchises in 23 states, sell the drug over the counter and by mail order. It is bundled with several supplements in a packet called "Andro-Flav Stack."
"It's very popular," said Andrew Fischman, director of marketing for the Hicksville, New York-based chain. "The primary target of it is the 18- to 35-year-old muscle-head.
"If you can support your body's natural ability to produce testosterone and other hormones through diet, exercise and nutritional supplementation, that may lead to increased muscle mass and overall size," he said. "That's where the movement is."
San Diego conditioning coordinator Sam Gannelli said none of the Padres take Androstenedione, and he didn't believe steroids were widely used in baseball.
"Compared to every other sport, there's no time to heal in baseball," he said. "In football, you have six days off after every game. In basketball, it's three or four days. These guys are going every day for six months. Steroids can really get you broken down. They can do a lot of harm in the long run."
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Lareux
Guest
What's funny about that article is the part I put in bold. That, and the fact that Big Mac said that "everyone" was using what he was using. The problem is that he was using PEDs and not just andro, and may never have even been using andro but figured he would act as if he was in order to keep the heat off of him for the steroids he was using. Seems like a good plan....keep a bottle of something that is legal in your locker so if anyone ever asks you about steroids you can say that you're simply using Andro (and creatine).
Especially after we found out that Big Mac was probably using steroids with Canseco when he was a rookie with the A's, I find it funny that the writer said "no one suggests that McGwire wouldn't be closing in on the record w/o the over the counter drug....because he hit 49 homers as a rookie." Hahahaha
Especially after we found out that Big Mac was probably using steroids with Canseco when he was a rookie with the A's, I find it funny that the writer said "no one suggests that McGwire wouldn't be closing in on the record w/o the over the counter drug....because he hit 49 homers as a rookie." Hahahaha
KowboyKarl
Live. Breathe. Blue.
Yeah, I definitely remember the book coming out and how big of a deal it was. The Andro bottle in the locker thing though...can't believe I never knew that. Oh well, pre-CTG. Lol
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Lareux
Guest
Lol. Take a few minutes and google search "andro Mark McGwire" and take a look at the many articles from back in 1998 when the bottle was discovered. It's very interesting to read them now, knowing what we all know. You can tell by the writing that the subject of steroids and whether or not guys were using them hadn't really been thought through yet. You may not find it interesting (I have a hunch you will being a big baseball fan), but I certainly do.
:shake:
JumpOnBoard
CTG Partner
@WFAN660: #MLB sources have informed CBS Evening News' @JimAxelrod that Alex Rodriguez could be looking at a lifetime ban. | http://t.co/p2NN41QJ8D
Coverdatspred
Curious About George Costanza‘s Modeling Career
Ive heard this too. Supposedly why he was going out of his way to try and cut a deal with Bud. The evidence is overwhelming and he is basically fucked.
KowboyKarl
Live. Breathe. Blue.
Well that sure would free up a lot of cash for the Yankees to use towards the cap..... Oh wait, never mind.
CASH
Pretty much a regular
would be the best thing for the sport -- make him go away, far away...
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Lareux
Guest
The latest reports say that A Rod is not interested in cutting a deal with MLB. NBC Sports tweeted that not too long ago.
Whether you like A Rod or not, why should he deserve a lifetime ban? First, he has never failed a drug test, which certainly doesn't mean much since he has admitted using PEDs. Second, and more importantly, MLB has a discipline schedule for PED users, just banning someone who hasn't gone through the steps of suspension doesn't make much sense.
Whether you like A Rod or not, why should he deserve a lifetime ban? First, he has never failed a drug test, which certainly doesn't mean much since he has admitted using PEDs. Second, and more importantly, MLB has a discipline schedule for PED users, just banning someone who hasn't gone through the steps of suspension doesn't make much sense.
It's Selig....he's a nerdy version of Stern
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Lareux
Guest
:shake:
I have heard others say that A Rod should be gone for life because he lied and tried to interfere with their investigation. Well, A Rod admitted to using even though he never failed an MLB drug test, while Braun did, in fact, fail a test. Braun then lied and lied, and lied some more about his usage. I guess my point is that if A Rod deserves a lifetime ban than Braun does as well. I don't think either of them deserve a ban though, that's just silly.
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
why do you think kj?
if MLB plan on cleaning up isn't he the perfect example to lay down the law? He is after all the highest paid ball player no?
He is a marketable name it's not like he's some 2nd tier player.
CollegeKingRex
CTG Regular
he is saying so because he thinks the guy is washed up and cannot help the Jankees at this point in his career
CASH
Pretty much a regular
Arod has been cheating for over 10 years,, he admitted that he cheated, he has been linked to every PED news over the last 10 years,,,, he has disgraced the game for as many years... bottom line he has continuously cheated and lied about it for many years...
did Braun get caught - yes- and he got punished for it, 1st offense ( i believe he's involvement with this miami clinic is part of his original failed test, that got overturned)
spooks
You Can't Make This Up
Mark McGwire....WTF!
You guys dont think he ONLY took Andro like he said?....lol!
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You guys dont think he ONLY took Andro like he said?....lol!
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