Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Any reason for the drop to -4?
What happened to the TTech line?
- Thread starter Joe Public
- Start date
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Hey, Tee, Happy New Year to you, too.
Oh, and go IOWA.
=)
Oh, and go IOWA.
=)
txtennisboy
Pretty much a regular
not sure.....i think tech shows up strong
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Me, too, TX. That's why I'm wondering. Maybe their starting O-line has mono or some nonsense, but I haven't heard anything. I think this is a very good bowl season for all the Texas teams.
Baylor notwithstanding.
Baylor notwithstanding.
cubsker
Used to be "Fun Cub"
I like Old Piss straight up. TT is the most overrated team of the season. They're tough at home at night and that's about it. They picked the perfect time to play Texas and they did play a hell of a couple of games against Okie St and KU. Other than that, they've been average. Should have lost at home to Nebraska, had halfway tough game against Nevada, got absolutely destroyed by OU, lost the first half to A&M. I think Ole Miss will throw it all over the place against these guys and get enough stops to win.
Cubsker,
You could dissect every team game-by-game just like that.
That being said, Texas Tech does not want to be in the Cotton Bowl. I don't care what you read, how many tickets Tech sold etc. You go 11-1 and you end up in the Cotton Bowl against a 4 loss team. I myself sold my tickets to the game. History shows take Ole Miss +4 and 1st half..goes with the theory of spread offenses being "rusty" in bowl games. Harrell and Crabtree are both 100% as is the rest of the team (minus LA Reed-- a non factor anyways).
Ole Miss wants to be in Dallas.
Tech doesn't.
Ole Miss +4
Tech 2nd Half.
You could dissect every team game-by-game just like that.
That being said, Texas Tech does not want to be in the Cotton Bowl. I don't care what you read, how many tickets Tech sold etc. You go 11-1 and you end up in the Cotton Bowl against a 4 loss team. I myself sold my tickets to the game. History shows take Ole Miss +4 and 1st half..goes with the theory of spread offenses being "rusty" in bowl games. Harrell and Crabtree are both 100% as is the rest of the team (minus LA Reed-- a non factor anyways).
Ole Miss wants to be in Dallas.
Tech doesn't.
Ole Miss +4
Tech 2nd Half.
I think we can agree Texas tech was looking like alot of the same old TTech until the game @ Kansas .
1st 7 games what stands out ?
<TABLE class=data cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2><TBODY><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 10/18/08</TD><TD>@ Texas A&M</TD><TD>W 43-25</TD><TD>Week 8</TD><TD>L -21</TD><TD>O 61.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 10/11/08</TD><TD>Nebraska</TD><TD>W 37-31 x</TD><TD>Week 7</TD><TD>L -21</TD><TD>U 69.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 10/04/08</TD><TD>@ Kansas State</TD><TD>W 58-28</TD><TD>Week 6</TD><TD>W -7</TD><TD>O 66.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 09/20/08</TD><TD>Massachusetts</TD><TD>W 56-14</TD><TD>Week 4</TD><TD>N </TD><TD>N </TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 09/13/08</TD><TD>Southern Methodist</TD><TD>W 43-7</TD><TD>Week 3</TD><TD>P -36</TD><TD>U 68.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 09/06/08</TD><TD>@ Nevada</TD><TD>W 35-19</TD><TD>Week 2</TD><TD>W -10.5</TD><TD>U 71</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 08/30/08</TD><TD>Eastern Washington</TD><TD>W 49-24</TD><TD>Week 1</TD><TD>N </TD><TD>N </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
They struggled @ Nevada who lost to Maryland the other day and needed OT vs Nebraska at home who just slid by Clemson .
Then comes the game @ Kansas and they look unstoppable.
<TABLE class=data cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2><TBODY><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 11/08/08</TD><TD>Oklahoma State</TD><TD>W 56-20</TD><TD>Week 11</TD><TD>W -3.5</TD><TD>O 71.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 11/01/08</TD><TD>Texas</TD><TD>W 39-33</TD><TD>Week 10</TD><TD>W 3.5</TD><TD>O 71</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 10/25/08</TD><TD>@ Kansas</TD><TD>W 63-21</TD><TD>Week 9</TD><TD>W -2</TD><TD>O 68</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
The win vs Texas was purely due to a quick start and home field . Texas is IMO still clearly the better team ..
Then reality sets in when they play @ Oklahoma and people think they have an actual chance .....which leads probably to a bit of a hangover vs Baylor. Except unlike OU who steamrolled teams home and away TT was medicore vs the spread . Having to sweat out Baylor is interesting because they were a notch below Nebraska this year IMO . So does that mean the gap bewteen those programs Missouri , Okie State and TTech is very close ?? Sure seems that way with TT being the best of that group but still not in the class of Texas or Oklahoma .
To Ole Miss credit they played solid ball @ Alabama and well won @ Florida which even if flukely it still impressive when the score is 31-30 ...they won @ LS which probably was some good timing but they also did it fairly soundly and the other loss @ WF was late and WF actually had an offense at that point ...
I like Miss here more because of their consistency which may sound odd since turnovers killed them at crucial points this season . By consistency I mean overall play each week. There was no real peaks and valleys . What ever bad happened them to usually was the result of a turnover which in some sense they can control ....
Texas Tech pass defense is pretty soft and hard to imagince an SEC team who will be able to pass on them wont be able to run on a Big 12 defense like the Red Raiders .
Through in everything else and the way I look at it this is Miss was playing Bama here in a neutral field what would the line be ? I think somewhere around Bame-4.to -6 depending on how we view how these teams finished up(kinda thinking -4 the more I look at it ) . Could be even lower really but that says Texas Tech is EQUAL to ALABAMA ? Not sure I can buy that ......hence why +4 or better has value for Miss IMO .....probably should be about TexasTech -1.5 at most....
:cheers:As I said then factor the motivation and all those angles .
1st 7 games what stands out ?
<TABLE class=data cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2><TBODY><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 10/18/08</TD><TD>@ Texas A&M</TD><TD>W 43-25</TD><TD>Week 8</TD><TD>L -21</TD><TD>O 61.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 10/11/08</TD><TD>Nebraska</TD><TD>W 37-31 x</TD><TD>Week 7</TD><TD>L -21</TD><TD>U 69.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 10/04/08</TD><TD>@ Kansas State</TD><TD>W 58-28</TD><TD>Week 6</TD><TD>W -7</TD><TD>O 66.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 09/20/08</TD><TD>Massachusetts</TD><TD>W 56-14</TD><TD>Week 4</TD><TD>N </TD><TD>N </TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 09/13/08</TD><TD>Southern Methodist</TD><TD>W 43-7</TD><TD>Week 3</TD><TD>P -36</TD><TD>U 68.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 09/06/08</TD><TD>@ Nevada</TD><TD>W 35-19</TD><TD>Week 2</TD><TD>W -10.5</TD><TD>U 71</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 08/30/08</TD><TD>Eastern Washington</TD><TD>W 49-24</TD><TD>Week 1</TD><TD>N </TD><TD>N </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
They struggled @ Nevada who lost to Maryland the other day and needed OT vs Nebraska at home who just slid by Clemson .
Then comes the game @ Kansas and they look unstoppable.
<TABLE class=data cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2><TBODY><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 11/08/08</TD><TD>Oklahoma State</TD><TD>W 56-20</TD><TD>Week 11</TD><TD>W -3.5</TD><TD>O 71.5</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 11/01/08</TD><TD>Texas</TD><TD>W 39-33</TD><TD>Week 10</TD><TD>W 3.5</TD><TD>O 71</TD></TR><TR class=datarow><TD>Saturday 10/25/08</TD><TD>@ Kansas</TD><TD>W 63-21</TD><TD>Week 9</TD><TD>W -2</TD><TD>O 68</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
The win vs Texas was purely due to a quick start and home field . Texas is IMO still clearly the better team ..
Then reality sets in when they play @ Oklahoma and people think they have an actual chance .....which leads probably to a bit of a hangover vs Baylor. Except unlike OU who steamrolled teams home and away TT was medicore vs the spread . Having to sweat out Baylor is interesting because they were a notch below Nebraska this year IMO . So does that mean the gap bewteen those programs Missouri , Okie State and TTech is very close ?? Sure seems that way with TT being the best of that group but still not in the class of Texas or Oklahoma .
To Ole Miss credit they played solid ball @ Alabama and well won @ Florida which even if flukely it still impressive when the score is 31-30 ...they won @ LS which probably was some good timing but they also did it fairly soundly and the other loss @ WF was late and WF actually had an offense at that point ...
I like Miss here more because of their consistency which may sound odd since turnovers killed them at crucial points this season . By consistency I mean overall play each week. There was no real peaks and valleys . What ever bad happened them to usually was the result of a turnover which in some sense they can control ....
Texas Tech pass defense is pretty soft and hard to imagince an SEC team who will be able to pass on them wont be able to run on a Big 12 defense like the Red Raiders .
Through in everything else and the way I look at it this is Miss was playing Bama here in a neutral field what would the line be ? I think somewhere around Bame-4.to -6 depending on how we view how these teams finished up(kinda thinking -4 the more I look at it ) . Could be even lower really but that says Texas Tech is EQUAL to ALABAMA ? Not sure I can buy that ......hence why +4 or better has value for Miss IMO .....probably should be about TexasTech -1.5 at most....
:cheers:As I said then factor the motivation and all those angles .
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
The reason I like Tech here actually has a lot to do with motivation. Tech is sort of becoming like Hawaii was under June Jones. They score a lot of points by throwing the ball all over the place, but when they play a real team with some talent they get their *ss handed to them both on the field and on the sidelines.
I think, at some point, Mike Leach has to win not only a big game, but a bowl game. And, yeah, he beat Texas, but he beat them on a miracle play. If you're going to realistically be a great team, you need to produce quality wins.
And although beating Mississippi in the whatever bowl isn't like beating OU or winning a big BCS bowl, it's still a bowl game and if they run it up (something Leach is fine with) they just look different to the world. 12-1, huge bowl win, you can argue that you had one bad week and it cost you. It may not be true, but people will buy it and you need that for recruiting and the rest of it.
I think, at some point, Mike Leach has to win not only a big game, but a bowl game. And, yeah, he beat Texas, but he beat them on a miracle play. If you're going to realistically be a great team, you need to produce quality wins.
And although beating Mississippi in the whatever bowl isn't like beating OU or winning a big BCS bowl, it's still a bowl game and if they run it up (something Leach is fine with) they just look different to the world. 12-1, huge bowl win, you can argue that you had one bad week and it cost you. It may not be true, but people will buy it and you need that for recruiting and the rest of it.
I agree JP. Problem is their is ZERO sexiness to Ole Miss . Which means they are way , way under the radar . Their only issue most of the season was costly and timely turnovers (see Vandy and SC game) . Thats the problem when we look at teams indivual schedules sometimes we are down on a conference but dont realize the games each week are still fairly competitive . Unlike say playing Iowa State , Kansas State just two name 2 Big Twelve teams which basically amount to stat inflators.
Week to week they just havent shown much IMO except for a 3 game spurt . Okie State and Missouri have shown from midseason on they were overrated or at least not what we thought they were . Which takes alot of wind out of the Big 12 .
Basically it boils down to this IMO . Which is why I brought up what the line would be with Bama and Miss . I did that to show how STRONG a team Ole Miss is as a whole .
Fla hosted Bama w/o Pervin and on a neutral field laying -10 . So at Fla with Pervin the spread is clearly higher I'll say -13 or -14 . Well Ole Mis was +23 @ FLA which even at the time felt crazy was thinking 18-20 maybe not 23 ...lets see +20 arguements sake was fair then factor in Ole Miss could play well enough to win ...now whats fair for Ole Miss @ Fla +17 ?
So your talking 3-4 difference bewteen Bama and Ole Miss ....to show how strong Ole Miss is....Texas Tech in their 2 big games were +3.5 and -3.5 ....at home ...both lines were off and maybe I'll say Tech should -7 vs Okie State but thats with Home field .....its Dallas but not TT home .....
So there is just no way the more I look at this game that TT should be more then -1.5 IMO . Ole Miss doesnt shine because they had tons of miscues that lost some games and kept others close but when you look at the 3 TOUGHEST games they had this season @ LSU , @ Bama , and FLA they showed extremely well in those games. We can LSU wasnt very good this year but after smoking GaTech they sure provided alot of people wrong ...
Now TT needed a 21 pt rally vs a young Baylor team at home to close out the season . Unimpressive to me . As I stated 1st 2 games that were somewhat "tough" were vs Neb and @ Nevada and they didnt look good in either , they smoked kansas and looked good , they looked good in the 1st H vs Texas but the Longhorns looked much better then them in the 2nd Half , Okie State they smoked , but Oklahoma embarrassed them --, Baylor a solid team was leading for 3 quarters ....Thats 7 games 4 unimpressive ones , 1 solid one vs texas and 2 good ones ....
OU is 3 pt dogs to FLA ...so if we are to believe that Ole Miss is around the +14 to +17 range if they layed at Florida these days down from the +23 when they played ....well OU is right now 3 pts weaker then FLA according to the line ...so lets say OU host Miss it would be -13 when TT was +7 they lost by 40 something @ OU ......they would be alot closer to +11 to +13 these days @ OU ......which is essentially saying somewhere bewteen 1 to 3 pt difference ..
Makes me feel smart when I think hypothetically and it lines up with my guessestimate that TT should be -1.5 in this game and not more .....
The answer is simply who is Miss? What are they worth since they were undervalued so many times ...TT was never undervalued outside of the Okie State game and Kansa sgame where they line basically said they just had to win ........
Nothing about TT points to them being clearly better then Ole Miss ........
Just remember these 3 things and I understand the Heisman diss could be motivating as well:
PK Matt Williams -- What a story for a walk-on kicker. Comes out of the stands at Jones AT&T Stadium and kicks a 30-yard field goal for a media timeout promo during a non-conference game earlier this season, chased down by Tech assistants to get info on him per request of coach Mike Leach and hits 29 of 29 extra point attempts after the Red Raiders had struggled with the simple kicks earlier in the season.
ROSTER REPORT
--QB Graham Harrell had surgery on his left non-throwing hand Nov. 30 following Tech's 35-28 win over Baylor the day before. He had 17 pins and two plates placed in his hand to repair nine fractures in his left ring and pinkie fingers. Tech officials said there should be no delay in Harrell's routine and he would have been ready for the Big 12 championship game if Tech would have played in it.
--WR Mike Crabtree left just before halftime in the win over Baylor on Nov. 29. He apparently sprained his right ankle on a pass to set up a Tech touchdown near the 1-yard line. Crabtree has been in a medical boot since but is expected to be ready for the bowl game.
Anything less then 100% from either player is not enough IMO as 85% just doesnt cut it here . Mix in the fact we still dont know what happens in a crucial FG situation ? Does Leach bypass a kick and go for it on 4th down ? Most of the better competition I mentioned in those 7 key games the offense was solid but not super or spectular by any stretch.....
Will be POUNDING OLE MISS tmrw....cant overlook 7.8 YPA on avg pass plays on the road for TT .....:cheers:
tech is better but they still arent primetime IMO..
Week to week they just havent shown much IMO except for a 3 game spurt . Okie State and Missouri have shown from midseason on they were overrated or at least not what we thought they were . Which takes alot of wind out of the Big 12 .
Basically it boils down to this IMO . Which is why I brought up what the line would be with Bama and Miss . I did that to show how STRONG a team Ole Miss is as a whole .
Fla hosted Bama w/o Pervin and on a neutral field laying -10 . So at Fla with Pervin the spread is clearly higher I'll say -13 or -14 . Well Ole Mis was +23 @ FLA which even at the time felt crazy was thinking 18-20 maybe not 23 ...lets see +20 arguements sake was fair then factor in Ole Miss could play well enough to win ...now whats fair for Ole Miss @ Fla +17 ?
So your talking 3-4 difference bewteen Bama and Ole Miss ....to show how strong Ole Miss is....Texas Tech in their 2 big games were +3.5 and -3.5 ....at home ...both lines were off and maybe I'll say Tech should -7 vs Okie State but thats with Home field .....its Dallas but not TT home .....
So there is just no way the more I look at this game that TT should be more then -1.5 IMO . Ole Miss doesnt shine because they had tons of miscues that lost some games and kept others close but when you look at the 3 TOUGHEST games they had this season @ LSU , @ Bama , and FLA they showed extremely well in those games. We can LSU wasnt very good this year but after smoking GaTech they sure provided alot of people wrong ...
Now TT needed a 21 pt rally vs a young Baylor team at home to close out the season . Unimpressive to me . As I stated 1st 2 games that were somewhat "tough" were vs Neb and @ Nevada and they didnt look good in either , they smoked kansas and looked good , they looked good in the 1st H vs Texas but the Longhorns looked much better then them in the 2nd Half , Okie State they smoked , but Oklahoma embarrassed them --, Baylor a solid team was leading for 3 quarters ....Thats 7 games 4 unimpressive ones , 1 solid one vs texas and 2 good ones ....
OU is 3 pt dogs to FLA ...so if we are to believe that Ole Miss is around the +14 to +17 range if they layed at Florida these days down from the +23 when they played ....well OU is right now 3 pts weaker then FLA according to the line ...so lets say OU host Miss it would be -13 when TT was +7 they lost by 40 something @ OU ......they would be alot closer to +11 to +13 these days @ OU ......which is essentially saying somewhere bewteen 1 to 3 pt difference ..
Makes me feel smart when I think hypothetically and it lines up with my guessestimate that TT should be -1.5 in this game and not more .....
The answer is simply who is Miss? What are they worth since they were undervalued so many times ...TT was never undervalued outside of the Okie State game and Kansa sgame where they line basically said they just had to win ........
Nothing about TT points to them being clearly better then Ole Miss ........
Just remember these 3 things and I understand the Heisman diss could be motivating as well:
PK Matt Williams -- What a story for a walk-on kicker. Comes out of the stands at Jones AT&T Stadium and kicks a 30-yard field goal for a media timeout promo during a non-conference game earlier this season, chased down by Tech assistants to get info on him per request of coach Mike Leach and hits 29 of 29 extra point attempts after the Red Raiders had struggled with the simple kicks earlier in the season.
ROSTER REPORT
--QB Graham Harrell had surgery on his left non-throwing hand Nov. 30 following Tech's 35-28 win over Baylor the day before. He had 17 pins and two plates placed in his hand to repair nine fractures in his left ring and pinkie fingers. Tech officials said there should be no delay in Harrell's routine and he would have been ready for the Big 12 championship game if Tech would have played in it.
--WR Mike Crabtree left just before halftime in the win over Baylor on Nov. 29. He apparently sprained his right ankle on a pass to set up a Tech touchdown near the 1-yard line. Crabtree has been in a medical boot since but is expected to be ready for the bowl game.
Anything less then 100% from either player is not enough IMO as 85% just doesnt cut it here . Mix in the fact we still dont know what happens in a crucial FG situation ? Does Leach bypass a kick and go for it on 4th down ? Most of the better competition I mentioned in those 7 key games the offense was solid but not super or spectular by any stretch.....
Will be POUNDING OLE MISS tmrw....cant overlook 7.8 YPA on avg pass plays on the road for TT .....:cheers:
tech is better but they still arent primetime IMO..
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Not to oversimplify it, but this "tech is better but they still arent primetime IMO.." is exactly why I'm on Tech.
It's the same reason I wanted to bet Nebraska today. The program needs a big win here. Why? Because they've become a program that simply isn't primetime. They have a goofy offense and they put up points, but you don't want to go there, they're not going to get you anywhere. And until that reputation changes, that's what they'll always be, a gimmick.
And Leach has to be more than that to justify the money and rep he has. I think this is a must win game for them. I know that kind of sounds stupid, and I know that if they lose it's not as if the program won't recover, but Ole Miss isn't exactly the best defense in the land. Crabtree has a great chance to showcase himself and the program does too.
But if they lose, it's the same old story. Good regular season program against bad teams when it doesn't matter. But when it matters they fold and go home. That's something that will keep away blue chip recruits and eventually get you fired as a coach. This is a game you've gotta win if you're Tech.
It's the same reason I wanted to bet Nebraska today. The program needs a big win here. Why? Because they've become a program that simply isn't primetime. They have a goofy offense and they put up points, but you don't want to go there, they're not going to get you anywhere. And until that reputation changes, that's what they'll always be, a gimmick.
And Leach has to be more than that to justify the money and rep he has. I think this is a must win game for them. I know that kind of sounds stupid, and I know that if they lose it's not as if the program won't recover, but Ole Miss isn't exactly the best defense in the land. Crabtree has a great chance to showcase himself and the program does too.
But if they lose, it's the same old story. Good regular season program against bad teams when it doesn't matter. But when it matters they fold and go home. That's something that will keep away blue chip recruits and eventually get you fired as a coach. This is a game you've gotta win if you're Tech.
aplous
Donkey Hater
I agree....I am in love w/ Miss tomorrow. I had the same love for Oregon and the line was moving in similar fashion, so no worries.
Tech has had a real nice year, but I do think they are hella bummed to be playing in this game. (not like they wont give it their all, but it is no longer do or die)......Miss on the other hand would be a huge building block for the program to get this win.
Clearly the trend with Tech of late in bowls is they start slow as shit then race like a horse down the stretch to get back into it......Im excited to watch!!
GL all!
While I agree I just dont see what relevancy that is when A) Miss is undervalued and B ) No doubt in my mind texas tech is overrated just as texas is not anywhere near as good as OU . By anywhere I mean still about TD dogs on a neutral field .
Okay Ole Miss isnt the best defense in the world ? Is it worse then Baylor's , Nebraska's , Nevada 's , Texas ?? Wher e is TT offense with Harrell and the surgery and Crabtree ankle was bad enough they at least were cautious and put him in a boot .
Remember TT scored 35 on Baylor at home and that includes the last 21 pts in the last quarter and half plus they Tech just had 365 yds of offense on 75 plays which is less then 5 yds per play..6.2 on the pass
21 @ Oklahoma ...
39 vs Texas which includes 2 on a safety , 7 on a pick 6 and 7 on a TD with 1 second left that was pretty incredible...so really the offense put up 23-30 pts..
37 vs Nebraska but that includes winner in OT ..the offense was very efficient but still just 284 yds passing but Neb holding the ball and scoring cut into what TT could do ...lost TOP 40 to 20...
35 @ Nevada including punt return ...19/46 297yds TD -2INT
So as you said leach has no worries running it up and thats what he did when he could vs Okie State and @ KU which KU game they had nothing but field position as the momentum just swung their way and couldnt be stopped ...few recall game was 14-14 after 1 quarter ......
So I will put down Texas Tech for 35 but could see 28,30,31 if they can make FGs but would be suprised if they really cracked 35 points maybe 38 but shocked beyound that ...
So at 35 points why would Miss score less then 31 points ? I am confident they get at least 31 points . They played @ FLA , @ LSU , @ BAMA some of the most talented defenses in the country and score 31 in 2 of them and 20 @ Bama but 17 in the 2nd Half..and they played @ Wake another very solid defense and scored 28..bad offensive games like Auburn still had bright spots like 240 rushing yards...
The key simple for Miss start fast and play keep away from the Tech offense and stay out of the having to score situation where you put pressure on yourself ....
Thats 5 games were Texas Tech had essentially 35 or less points on offense.....of the 7 they played quality teams....
So the offense can be contained and again health of the 2 STUDs..
Problem with Leach getting FIRED is he supposedly has just signed a new contract that hasnt been announced . They wont ever push Leach out the door . At least I dont think but I dont follow the situation there by any means....
Buy TT to 3 or -3.5 and I play Miss at 4.5 or better and when TT wins 35-31 we cn both celebrate ....:shake:
Glad you looked at that because it was mentioned here already. So there could eb some relevancy to the TT offense needing sometime to heat up with the long layoff ....thanks bro.....
1st Quarter and 1st Half plays now very likely for me .....:cheers:
Biggest concern I have is the experience factor but playing @ Florida has to be pretty huge...
Baron is good though but Harrell with the splint and Crabtree's ankle are still of interest to me as well:shake:
Ramathorn02
Pretty much a regular
Isn't this Techs biggest bowl in years?
Vikingsguy
Tarvaris Jackson fan club president
The "Mad Scientist" is on 60 Minutes Sunday night. No way is he going anywhere...
Ram,
It's all relative. Tech's last 3 bowls have been Gator, Cotton and Holiday. You go 11-1 and make the Cotton Bowl against a 4 loss team and it's a bummer. Our fans traveled well to this game, so we'll see.
Harrell and Crabtree are both 100% according to our Rivals site. I'm really interested in seeing how Crabtree plays against an SEC defense.
It's all relative. Tech's last 3 bowls have been Gator, Cotton and Holiday. You go 11-1 and make the Cotton Bowl against a 4 loss team and it's a bummer. Our fans traveled well to this game, so we'll see.
Harrell and Crabtree are both 100% according to our Rivals site. I'm really interested in seeing how Crabtree plays against an SEC defense.
wizardofodd
Resident Newlywed
I'm on Miss+5.5 today. I dont see the motivation for TT as much here as they should be playing someone like bama. What I dont like about TT is that they go for it on 4th downs alot and with the SEC type D, I cant see them converting on many of them. Miss should have a well balanced offense and should keep the TT offense off the field. I wouldnt be surprised to see an upset here, but I'll take the points.
BOL
BOL
J Galt
Everyone's got a price.....
You got lucky on Nebraska yesterday, young Joseph, Cullen Harper did everything but cash your ticket for you. Today, not so much.
Like I've said multiple times, Tech CAN'T play against physical teams. It's crazy to say, but I didn't feel like the game was even as close as the score showed. Ole Miss ran the ball whenever they wanted and shot themselves in the foot multiple times in the red zone and still won easily. This was a good old fashioned beatdown.
Like I've said multiple times, Tech CAN'T play against physical teams. It's crazy to say, but I didn't feel like the game was even as close as the score showed. Ole Miss ran the ball whenever they wanted and shot themselves in the foot multiple times in the red zone and still won easily. This was a good old fashioned beatdown.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Yeah, JG, the answer to the question this thread originally posed is this. The reason the line fell through the floor is because a whole bunch of people did their homework and realized that Texas Tech sucks.
I continue to believe that this was a big game for Texas Tech, and they completely failed the test. They now become Hawaii or one of those Houston teams from years past where they put up a ton of points and huge numbers, but were never really a threat to win big games.
Houston Nutt, who I really don't respect all that much as a coach--and maybe I'm way off on that--absolutely ran rings around an arguably more talented team today and embarrassed the supposed 'genius' of Mike Leach.
You really summed it up well, JG. I blew this one.
I continue to believe that this was a big game for Texas Tech, and they completely failed the test. They now become Hawaii or one of those Houston teams from years past where they put up a ton of points and huge numbers, but were never really a threat to win big games.
Houston Nutt, who I really don't respect all that much as a coach--and maybe I'm way off on that--absolutely ran rings around an arguably more talented team today and embarrassed the supposed 'genius' of Mike Leach.
You really summed it up well, JG. I blew this one.
booksbestfriend
On Johnny's Shitlist
Well their offensive line was manhandled and their defensive line was blasted off the ball. Just kidding, smart money on the right side.
Regardless of outcome I think the biggest flaw I see is worrying about a teams record. Tech at 11-1 is a joke they played 7 games thats the teams were decent and struggled in 5 of them. I mean decent not even a threat to relly beat them. talking 20 pt home favs or DD road chalk and struggled . They had to go to OT with Nebraska at home as 21 pt favs and then needed 21 straight pts to beat Baylor at home as 21 pt favs . They played 5 road games did not show well @ A&M who was terrible , did not show well @ Nevada who is essentially the equal of Maryland , they get thrashed @ OU . They played a soft schedule and even softier when you look at the context of the timimg of when they opposed certain teams . That and we have no idea how Harrell and Crabtree really felt which Crabtree had his 1st catch at 21 minutes deep into the game and just 3 catches for 19 yds..
Texas Tech is a solid team IMO just as I said Ole Miss was the most underrated team in the country ...who can compare to playing @ Wake Forest , @ Fla , @ Bama , @ LSU , and @ Arkansas?? That has to be one of the toughest schedules for a team to travel to . Factor in they lose by 2 @ WF on a last second FG was Snead's 1st road game , they had zero conference wins last year , they didnt quit vs Bama despit egetting down 3 scores at half and today by 14 , and they abused LSU who just abused GaTech who was able to win @ Georgia even though it was rather fluky ...
I think the Big 12 is somewhat watered down but KU and NEB showed no cinsistency and underperformed all season , because Okie State was solid but mainly overrated and because Missouri just fell to pieces. Remember Missouri was 10 pt favs @ Nebraska and fucking embarrassed them...Texas like TTech is solid but getting to much hype as well while OU still doesnt get enough ....
Thats my take on the big 12 ...and mix in Bama into that discussion because people think Bama was Nat Champ material when as i said before this game maybe Bama was 4 pts then Miss and I dont think its even that much ...:shake:
Texas Tech is a solid team IMO just as I said Ole Miss was the most underrated team in the country ...who can compare to playing @ Wake Forest , @ Fla , @ Bama , @ LSU , and @ Arkansas?? That has to be one of the toughest schedules for a team to travel to . Factor in they lose by 2 @ WF on a last second FG was Snead's 1st road game , they had zero conference wins last year , they didnt quit vs Bama despit egetting down 3 scores at half and today by 14 , and they abused LSU who just abused GaTech who was able to win @ Georgia even though it was rather fluky ...
I think the Big 12 is somewhat watered down but KU and NEB showed no cinsistency and underperformed all season , because Okie State was solid but mainly overrated and because Missouri just fell to pieces. Remember Missouri was 10 pt favs @ Nebraska and fucking embarrassed them...Texas like TTech is solid but getting to much hype as well while OU still doesnt get enough ....
Thats my take on the big 12 ...and mix in Bama into that discussion because people think Bama was Nat Champ material when as i said before this game maybe Bama was 4 pts then Miss and I dont think its even that much ...:shake:
SHSUHorn
Thief
Good call. I'm a little worried about Texas right now as well. Hung out with some players from Houston over the weekend and overconfident was an understatement. They were still pissed OU is playing in the BCS and Bradford won the Heisman.
Hell the game is Monday and most Texas fans aren't even buzzing about it.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
In hindsight there were a lot of things I simply refused to look at with regard to Tech. Obviously, my mistake. But a couple really stand out.
It never occurred to me that OU ran up so many points, in part, because Tech can't tackle for s**t. I just thought OU was that much faster and better. And they are, but when the other team obviously doesn't teach tackling, you're going to get some cheap yards.
I also wouldn't say that I was capping on records, what I was banking on was--1) that Mike Leach was a better coach (wrong, at least today) and 2) that Tech would feel the need to make a statement here. Particularly on defense. Again, wrong.
One thing I remembered well from the OU game was how much the Tech defense was angry about everybody saying Tech had no defense. Then they went into Norman and got their *sses handed to them. I figured this would motivate these sucks to come back and finish the season with not only the best record in school history, but on a positive note. Hell, it's not like they were playing Florida, Ole Miss--while talented, and quicker, especially at tailback--is good, but you're not going up against Heisman winners and truly top tier talent across the board.
And yet, oddly, they did seem motivated, they just weren't good. Based on the angles they took and their tackling efforts, Tech obviously hasn't taught them defensive fundamentals. These things happen, and the signs were there particularly in the OU game, but I didn't pay attention to them.
Interesting notes from Houston, Horn. That should be an interesting game, though I still think Texas hands it to 'em.
It never occurred to me that OU ran up so many points, in part, because Tech can't tackle for s**t. I just thought OU was that much faster and better. And they are, but when the other team obviously doesn't teach tackling, you're going to get some cheap yards.
I also wouldn't say that I was capping on records, what I was banking on was--1) that Mike Leach was a better coach (wrong, at least today) and 2) that Tech would feel the need to make a statement here. Particularly on defense. Again, wrong.
One thing I remembered well from the OU game was how much the Tech defense was angry about everybody saying Tech had no defense. Then they went into Norman and got their *sses handed to them. I figured this would motivate these sucks to come back and finish the season with not only the best record in school history, but on a positive note. Hell, it's not like they were playing Florida, Ole Miss--while talented, and quicker, especially at tailback--is good, but you're not going up against Heisman winners and truly top tier talent across the board.
And yet, oddly, they did seem motivated, they just weren't good. Based on the angles they took and their tackling efforts, Tech obviously hasn't taught them defensive fundamentals. These things happen, and the signs were there particularly in the OU game, but I didn't pay attention to them.
Interesting notes from Houston, Horn. That should be an interesting game, though I still think Texas hands it to 'em.
JP,
By no means directed at you or even this game . We just have a bunch of teams who were lucky to play 3,4, or 5 tough games in 11 or 12 . Outside of that if they are spread out they are easier to navigate then 3 straight tough ones . What impresses me about OU is they blow teams out home or away but in the context of the game. They games are usually blowout sby half which was quite the opposite of Tech . Just the opposite what helped me believe in Ole Miss was how they navigated their away schedule . They had somewhat bad defeats to Vandy and SCar at home but both teams made a bowl and both times it was Miss self destructing . Some will say Miss plays up or down to opponent but I dont think its thats . Its all about turnovers and maybe feeling like they can risk more vs the weaker teams at home ...
Good and great records with few challenges just to me diminishes the worth of a team . Big reason I faded Bama vs FLA in the SEC Championship . Really big reason why I would like to fade Utah here as well but the difference is I am not sure how many people buy into Utah and the line seems fairly accurate but still a tad high on a neutral field ..
Cincy has to fall into the category of overrated based on record as well ...we seen teams with terrible in season records do quite well so far ...
Would love to look at the season records of the BOWL winners ...think we would be suprised how many 6 and 7 win teams have fared well ..:shake:
By no means directed at you or even this game . We just have a bunch of teams who were lucky to play 3,4, or 5 tough games in 11 or 12 . Outside of that if they are spread out they are easier to navigate then 3 straight tough ones . What impresses me about OU is they blow teams out home or away but in the context of the game. They games are usually blowout sby half which was quite the opposite of Tech . Just the opposite what helped me believe in Ole Miss was how they navigated their away schedule . They had somewhat bad defeats to Vandy and SCar at home but both teams made a bowl and both times it was Miss self destructing . Some will say Miss plays up or down to opponent but I dont think its thats . Its all about turnovers and maybe feeling like they can risk more vs the weaker teams at home ...
Good and great records with few challenges just to me diminishes the worth of a team . Big reason I faded Bama vs FLA in the SEC Championship . Really big reason why I would like to fade Utah here as well but the difference is I am not sure how many people buy into Utah and the line seems fairly accurate but still a tad high on a neutral field ..
Cincy has to fall into the category of overrated based on record as well ...we seen teams with terrible in season records do quite well so far ...
Would love to look at the season records of the BOWL winners ...think we would be suprised how many 6 and 7 win teams have fared well ..:shake:
I think Texas above a TD is way to many ...Same deal with Texas look at their schedule , look at the context they met under as in how teams were playing at that time , and most of all look at their lines ...small number at home vs Missouri , small numebr @ TT lost SU , nearly TD dogs vs OU in the red River and that game was lost by OU on the fake punt more then Texas beating them ...
Havent played Ohio State but certainly leaning that way as Ohio State defense is a nice test ....:shake:
Havent played Ohio State but certainly leaning that way as Ohio State defense is a nice test ....:shake:
Capt. Slap
1st year apprentice of Sammy
EEEEEASSSSYYYY
cubsker
Used to be "Fun Cub"
You've got to be kidding if you think Nebraska wasn't the right side yesterday. Nebraska gift wrapped 14 of Clemson's 21 pts. Nebraska kicked 4 FGs, two of them after having 1st and goal. Nebraska out gained them big time and completely took away Clemson's two best players.
J Galt
Everyone's got a price.....
No, I wasn't kidding. Cullen Harper gave you guys the game yesterday and Nebraska cashed in on a Clemson defense that was exhausted by the end of the game. If Harper plays even a SUBPAR game against a weak Huskers secondary, yes, we are singing a much different tune today.
Can't talk about that game anymore. Still very angry, and would most definitely punch Cullen Harper in the face if I saw him at a bar tonight.
SHSUHorn
Thief
Texas manhandled OU in the second half. Completely whipped them in the second half. The Texas players in the locker room at halftime were telling the Texas coaches they could see the OU players starting to quit.
If that game would've been 5 more minutes longer Texas would've won by 3 TDs.
Anybody that was there at that game will tell you the same even the OU guys.
cubsker
Used to be "Fun Cub"
If Nebraska just played halfway decent on offense, they win by 3 touchdowns. NU DLine dominated that game. Clemson's D couldn't have been tired in the third quarter when NU scored 20 pts.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
OU is worse then TT at holding. What conference is the officiating crew for the MNC game?
Funny you bring that up, when I saw it was an SEC crew for the Rose Bowl I knew PSU had an even bigger hill to climb. SC plays far more like an SEC team than PSU, sure enough, first half it was penalty after penalty on PSU.
Funny you bring that up, when I saw it was an SEC crew for the Rose Bowl I knew PSU had an even bigger hill to climb. SC plays far more like an SEC team than PSU, sure enough, first half it was penalty after penalty on PSU.
booksbestfriend
On Johnny's Shitlist
I haven't seen the black guy that heads up an ACC crew, very good crew. The head official is very instructive to why he is calling the penalty and what it is. I wish I knew the guys name, but if it is his crew, it should be a very well called game.
J Galt
Everyone's got a price.....
Clemson's defense being very good is why Nebraska didn't score in the 1h. Look at the TOP. The one TD in the 2H was because of that great run ripped off by Castille, which I give him full credit for, but they weren't cranking out any long, sustained drives till the end of the 3Q into the 4th, more capitalizing on the idiotic turnovers by Clemson. The NU DL did play well, but that idiot Harper holding onto the ball wayyyyyyy too long and throwing the ball right into the outstretched hands of the D-linemen really helped the cause yesterday.
I reiterate, if Cullen Harper plays an average game as opposed to a miserable one, Clemson wins that game no problem.
He Hate Me
I hope everyone is treated the same
Cullen Harper has played miserable games all season, except during the little 3 game winning streak to end the season. He was not needed to play well during those games because the O-line and the running game were clicking. When the running game was shut down and the game depended on him he played poorly. Why would this game be any different?
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You guys dont ever take into account the context though . Lets say they did manhandle them in the 1st Half . Didnt almost everyone think OU was going to smoke them so is it fair say maybe OU believed the hype a bit ? What about the 1st Half ? OU had 3 scoring srives where they went right down the field ..22plays 227 yds for 21 pts , they had 2 1st Quarter three and INTs , then the badly timed Bradford INT with less then 3 minutes before half . Texas went 10 plays 57 yds kicked a FG , had 2 punts so basically 14-3 OU after 3 possessions , Texas got a kickoff return down 14-3 and then OU got the ball back and scored again so 21-10 but 3 TDs by the offense vs a FG for the Texas offense . So the 1st 20 minutes OU dominated them but again Texas gets credit for coming right back and scoring a TD on another long and grinding drive to make it 21-17 . Then Bradford throws a pick inisde 3 minutes on 3rd and 4 at the OU 34 down in Texas territory . MCoy hits a big play on 1st down to the OU 35 and again this to me is the momentum swinging helping Texas make plays. After a sack OU gets hit with a 15 yd penalty on 2nd and 14 from the OU 35. Texas ball in the red zone they settle for 3 pts but that 21-10 game is now 21-20. So momentum on Texas side and thats why I am sure they went into the half confident while OU goes into half complacent telling themselves just play like we did the 1st 20 minutes and erase the mistakes (penalties and turnovers) and its going to be okay .
Thats what I feel is overlooked . OU had a chance to hang them out twice with 11 point leads and didnt . Credit Texas for fighting but given that situation 100 times even if it works out wel for Texas 50 % of the time we are still weighing the instince it did happen . What does Texas look like if they didnt make a key play to keep in that game ?
So if Texas manhandled OU in the 2nd H how did they get stopped when they had the ball to open the half and all the momentum with 10 straight points and INT that produced a FG to end the half ? OU got the ball at midfield and Bradford made 2 big 3rd down plays and scored again ...so 7 possessions and 4 TDs ..compared to 6 Texas possessions which produced 2 Fgs and TD ...
Next possession again Texas makes a key play to their credit . Backed up after Crosby only gets to the 11 yd line the OU defense fails to make a key play on 3rd and 6 at the Tex 15 . I remarked in another thread when a team converts a long 3 rd down backed up it like an automatic sign they will score on that drive . Well guess what Texas scored a TD on this drive. Its like gold when that long 3 rd down conversion happens in football. The defense fails to get off the field and sudenly the offense is full of momentum. So true to form the texas offense suddenlt had life getting 7 straight plays of at least 5 yds for a team who was showing little consistency on offense to that point . Texas gets the conversion and like I said its automatic they will get points and they do . What game I said that about on New Years I cant remember .
So again momentum squarely back on Texas . Not sure if that TD drive is also where Reynolds the OU MLB and leader went out but that is a pretty significant loss . A team who was possibly weak at LB and just discovering what a player Lewis might be have been a little lost when this happened . Seems fair to me that the injury is overlooked when reviewing the game . So is this also why it appeared that OU was manhandled ?
Here is where the game turned . OU known for their special teams aleady was down in the dept that day allowing the 96 yd TD return by Texas after scoring a TD to go up 21-10 .
So 28-27 OU lead still , 4th and 6th at OU 48 , as texas finally stopped the OU offense which had scored TDs on 3 of the four previous possessions , comes the twist . OU goes for the fake punt on 4th and 6 at their 48 and picks up 5 yards . Double killer they have the wind sucked out of them by failing but also muliplied by the fact it was only a yard short. Not to leave out its now Texas ball down 1 pt at their own 47 essentially 15-20 yards away from taking the lead. Again like Texas did seemingly everytime after OU misstep they had a big 1st down as McCoy scrambled for 16 yds and OU tacked on 15 more with a penalty . So their they are at the OU 20 already after 1 play rather then possible being inside their own 15 yd line . Anyway OU defense held but still Texas kicked the go ahead FG with 1 minute to play the 3rd Quarter .
So down 30-27 OU ball and they move it near midfield but on 4th and 4 Texas finally makes a mistake and extends the drive on a 5 yd penalty .OU moved the ball and after a holding penalty on offense making it 3rd and 14 Bradford hit Ileglas for 25 yards then scored on the next play. Again the momentum factor .. now 34-30 11:30 to play ...
To me no sign of Texas dominanting or manhandling OU at any point in nearly 50 minutes . So now the question does playing Cincy (solid vet defense), traveling out to Wash(almost 1600 miles) , playing TCU (solid vet defense) , traveling to Waco for Baylor (good 250 mile trip) and then short trip to Dallas ,coupled with losing Reynolds possibly enough to maybe slow down OU bit a crunch time ? Especially when Texas had played FAU , @ UTEP , Rice , young Arkansas team and @ Colorado in comparision(only 800 mile trip) ? Who was more likely to have a little more left in the tank at this point ? Think its fair and valid to say Texas was the frsher of the teams thanks to a softer schedule which didnt have any physical defenses and just one trip of note to COL and alone OU had traveled 3x in the last 4 games starting with a long 1600 trip ......and magnif the Reynolds injury with that in mind..
So with less then 9 minutes left 3rd and 8 on the OU 38 again Texas made a play with McCoy finding SHipley for 37 yards and putting it on the doorstep. They punch it and convert the 2 pt conversion with 7:40 to play and lead 35-31.
OU ball at their own 38 , gain 7 on a pass , 1yd on a run and then INC on 3rd and 2 at the 46. OU had been unsuccessful running the ball and gained just 1 yard but have to question the playcalling on 2nd and 3rd down . If you gain 1 yard and make it 3rd and 2 at the 46 isnt already predetermined that your are going for it 4th and short ? So why not throw on 2nd down OR run again on 3rd down and if its 4th and 1 go for it ? So have to question that sequence in some regards . The OU defense had not registered many stops still since the 21-10 lead and OU needed some momentum back. They played scared and punted not using the aggression they would vs an inferior opponent . So they changed their philosophy in some manner .
Again Texas ball and on 3rd and 4 at the Tex 26 OU failed to get off the field and that 27% 3rd conversion rate coming in wasnt showing in the 2n dH..Fatigue and loss of Reynolds possibly ? Next play after the conversion which isnt the same as a 3rd and long inside the 20 but definetly momentum building .....62 yd run ...longest play from scrimmage all day ...not suprising is it ? That basically seals it 4 minutes ...now OU is just dropping back to pass ...
In my opinion Texas did a great job limiting mistakes and never quitting . They won but they didnt beat OU IMO and I would agree had the game last ed 5 minutes longer Texas would have won by more because OU was gassed and Texas had all the momentum ...so that valid but manhandling OU ? maybe over the last 10 minutes but hard to agree with that ant any point previous to that as OU was scoring every drive from the end of the 1st Q ...minus a fake punt and INT until Texas took the 4 pt lead ..
OU threw an INt which lead to 3 Texas points and came at a terrible time . They also lost the ST battle which they ar known for obviously . Allowing a kick TD and a fake punt which gave Texas a short field settling for 3 points ..
Texas did what OU didnt and that was not beat themselves .....
Just my take on the game what people see and actual understand happened are 2 different things to me. Not knocking Texas but rather saying how good OU is . Just because Texas to be still 6 pts worse on a neutral field isnt a bad thing . Bama was 10 pts worse then Bama on neutral field minus Harvin ...and Texas lost to OU the previous year adding further motivational edge for a team no one gave a ral chance to beat OU .....:shake:
