Week 14 Discussion

Gaius.T said:
Smells like a letdown game for the Broncos IMHO.

Beating the red hot Jets as a dog on the road then coming home against the lowly Chiefs and laying almost 10!

Plus they are 3 games ahead of the Bolts.

I think KC will give them a good fight and even though they may not win, they should cover that big number.
Click to expand...

The only reasons I am on the fence are they lost SU to lowly Oak at home last game . Then they lost @ KC when they were undefeated and kinda started their downward spiral. So have to think they are guarding vs a letdown . Beating the Jets isnt special really so no reason to be wrapeed up in that . Big deal they beat Tenny that makes them special ?

I agree hard to figure if DEN should be such big favs . Important though is the fact all their injured defensive starters come back but as you said how much motivation to really stomp a team.

Have to look at somethings but KC is the type of team which really cant ever be less then 7 pt dogs on the road IMO. KC will struggle to stop the Denver offense but again just a matter of turnovers with them . Like so many teams.

Definetly a game open to debate IMO...:shake:





 
Marlo Stanfield said:
Nut amazing man, simply amazing. :cheers:
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We shall see after the game . I had alot invested on Pitt Sunday so watched fairly closely . Kinda of play games in my head with how the situations play out . Basically said if Pitt kept NE off the scoe before half they would run away with. Was head faked briefly by the fact they made NE -2.5 but clearly they were recieving a good NE flow that day and expected more . Anyway said in the wek 13 thread at half its all an illusion ...and then NE unraveled .....


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FondyESQ.

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<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Scratch the NE thoughts . Its only an illusion IMO as they expect NE money IMO ...
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MNF : Thoughts in MNF discussion thread:

Jaguars +3.5 or ML (Level 2 ) Going to split bewteen them but on MNF dogs less DD wins SU ...

Under 49 -120 (Level 1) Hopefully I wont have to pay -120 for the hook

Teasers :
Jags +9.5 (or +9) and Under 54.5 or 55 see where it closes

Jags +9.5 (or +9) and the Over 42.5 would like to get 42 though ...


Boilded down to this have Jax -1.5 on neutral field and that makes me feel like Hous -1.5 here is correct . They lost SU as favs to Balt and nearly Miami . Game smells like GB and Oak does ...

Total while the over machine has clicked in Houston now the totals are high . Only 3 at 48 or better and indy was 2 of them then and CLe last week at 51 was 16-6.......

:cheers:



 
GUYS another great card this week.

Value in CINCINNATI very solid pass D. RUN D is their weakness INDY like almost last. I mean INDY hasn't blown anyone out. Struggle vs. CLE be serious here NATI will cover this

---Carolina coming on Buccs they are due for a loss yep GARCIA is HORRIBLE. He runs around like a 90 pound ferry in tights not even looking down field in then with all his might he throws the ball and then he gets jacked up like a rad doll this guy is a complete joke. Buccs will struggle to score. Need Griese. Carolina pumped up night game. Bucs defense top 5 in pass not so great vs. Run Carolina strength

--Baltimore yep CHECK

----NO is UNBELIVABLE at home best qb in league drew Brees Falcons weak pass D. NO should win this only concern is Brees is timing off like McNabb Giants game foreshadowin? Wearing out with piss poor playcalling SEAN PEYTON. Petyon 0-18 not leading after 3rd quarter. Billick was like "that is an alarming trend more than a sample size what is the reason"" Brees is great but when you are the WHOLE team with weak receivers and no run game you have to carry the load and like McNabb and REID it can put a toll on you and get you off your game. Saw that at end vs. BUCS

NE in must win usually win these games would like the 3 that was out their for awhile

DALLAS IMO struggles mightily vs. great pass D's ROMO HOMO starts getting a loose cannon and looking like Vinney Testerverde dropping balls scanning the field. Look at results of DALLAS vs. top notch pass D's. DALLAS hasn't done shit yet since Romo's return not sold

--MIAMI is like BUFFALO early on when BILLS where tearing it up, playing nobody decent and then killed when play big boys. Fade dolphins ass upcoming games. Bills can win this almost won in Miami too very similar teams fakers and preternders

Would look at GB over HOuston just cause Houston bad road team GB we are seeing real GB but might get one here. PASS D vastly overrated

SF will play Jets tough with confidence now Jets shit playing out West this year barely beat OAK

Denver has some revenge vs. KC

Titans might blow CLE out
 
Looking at HOUSTON tonight like Minney on primetime last night big deal

Jax sucks

Look to take CHICAGO next week
 
O-State good stuff hard to disagree with much but think Dallas @ Wash is facing a solid team defense like Pitt's . Granted Romo didnt play great but the offense was solid after the slow start ...
 
brewer said:
jaguars suck :(
Click to expand...

really think the OC needs to go . The OL sucks but they lost 2 guards in the opener , the center was hurt for the 1st H of the season , poor Collier was shot and had his leg amputated . Thats alot of depth on the OL. They lost alot up the middle on defense as well .

They have terrible play calling though . They move the ball and freeze in the red zone..Garrard has no go to WR's and suddenly they dont look to run the ball 40x a game . I dont get it why are they pass first now??

Both RBs avg just 11 carries a game . Garrard before today in 1 less game had 40 more pass attempts and just 2 years ago in 11 games had 122 less attempts ....baffling ..

Would have been a great day if I stuck to my Houston lean !
 
Also I didnt realize road teams were 10-2 yesterday ! Probably would have kept me away from the Jags seeing that !
 
Some random thoughts.

Gotta love Philly this week, but fading a 10-2 ATS, 11-1 SU team is :seeya:. Philly obviously hit rock bottom on there season, and there is enough talent there to bounceback. This game to Philly seems to be much more important to them than Giants. Giants are playing for home field throughout, and a first week bye....what about a look ahead to Dallas....and when does all this media coverage get to the team. When does Eli become Eli, and have a bad game? Philly blitzes alot, which I think is key to beating Eli....on the fence here, but 9 is a ton of points in this division...where the disparity among teams in this division is not that big.

NO laying a small # at home, is almost an auto play...but How well can they stop the run. They did very well against Minnesota stacking the box. Gotta like them at home, especially Atlanta off a big win against SD. NO in do or die mode here. Need this one more than any other game, and if they do win this they have 3 winnable games on deck, to put them at 10-6 on the year.

Sport pretty much covered the Dallas/Pitt game. Its win here or your done barring some kind of miracle for Dallas this year. Whats Barbers status? Ware? I dont think this game will be a shootout, seeing a under here.
 
haven't had a chance to read through this thread, but please please everybody bet against my brownies. they won't come anywhere close to the endzone unless cribbs either throws one or returns one

thought the line would be -14 and was still looking forward to fading the browns. they are the worst team in the league right now with everything that is going on
 
I'm going with Miami here. Losman is truly awful. The Bills lost a game they had to have against SF and looked awful in the process. Bills are 0-5 by my count against the 3-4 defense this season. Dolphins seem to play to the level of their competition. The game isn't even a true home game for the Bills.

Miami +1
 
SportsNut said:
O-State good stuff hard to disagree with much but think Dallas @ Wash is facing a solid team defense like Pitt's . Granted Romo didnt play great but the offense was solid after the slow start ...
Click to expand...

Wash a pretty good win but not sure it means much. Pitt will be a much more difficult test. Right now Pitt's is very consistent what do we have to gauge with Dallas? Started off great, then looked bad, Romo hurt look worse, Romo comes back looking decent again----just not enough here for me to bet against the best defense in the league. Not sure what I would get from Cowboys---I think it will be a great effort as they really need wins but I thougth survived Wash in must win whereas other top teams have gone in their and beat them down---Can't take inconsistency here vs. Steel Town
 
The six players are each suspended for the final four games of the regular-season. If the player’s team qualifies for the playoffs, he is eligible to return to the active roster on Monday, December 29. The suspended players are:

Charles Grant, New Orleans
Deuce McAllister, New Orleans
Bryan Pittman, Houston
Will Smith, New Orleans
Kevin Williams, Minnesota
Pat Williams, Minnesota


-------------------------------------
BIG LOSS FOR SAINTS

Two great DE's. Will Smith is very very strong against the run.




ATLANTA FALCONS (8-4) AT NEW ORLEANS SAINTS (6-6)
​
SERIES
SERIES LEADER: The Atlanta Falcons lead the all-time series between the two franchises, 44-34.
STREAKS: The New Orleans Saints have captured four-of-the-last five meetings between the two franchises.

COACHES VS. OPP: Head Coach Sean Payton owns a 4-1 mark against the Falcons as the head coach of the Saints, while Atlanta’s Mike Smith is 1-0.

LAST WEEK: Atlanta won, 22-16, at San Diego while the Saints dropped their first game in three weeks, 23-20, at Tampa Bay.

LAST GAME AT SITE: 10/21/07: Saints 22, Falcons 16. New Orleans QB Drew Brees throws 2 TD passes, including 37-yarder to WR Devery Henderson.

LAST GAME BETWEEN NEW ORLEANS AND ATLANTA: 11/9/08: Saints 20 at Falcons 34. Atlanta rookie QB Matt Ryan throws for 248 yards & 2 TDs, including 67-yarder to RB Jerious Norwood.

BROADCAST: FOX (12:00 PM CT): Dick Stockton, Brian Baldinger, Brian Billick, Laura Okmin (Field reporter). Westwood One Radio: Harry Kalas, Mark Malone. SIRIUS: 153 (Atl.), 126 (NO). XM: 107 (NO). SAINTS RADIO NETWORK WWL (870 AM Flagship): Jim Henderson, Hokie Gajan, Gus Kattengill. Saints Spanish Radio: WFNO (830 AM) is the Spanish-language affiliate of the Saints. Marco Garcia and Hector Pineda will call the action.


NOTES
SAINTS: Lead NFL in total offense (405.3 yards per game)…In 4 starts vs. Atl. with NO, QB DREW BREES is 4-1 (.800) with 95.2 passer rating. Passed for 422 yards in last meeting. Since joining Saints in 2006, has passed for 12,711 yards, most in NFL. Leads NFL with 3,870 yards & has 320+ yards in 8 of 12 games. In starts with 10+ att., when Brees has 100.0+ rating, his teams are 28-5 (.848)…RB PIERRE THOMAS leads club with career-high 359 rush yards & 6 rush TDs. Aims for 4th in row with TD (3 rush, 1 rec.). RB REGGIE BUSH had rec. TD in his last game vs. Atl. In past 2 meetings, WR MARQUES COLSTON has 16 catches for 232 yards (116.0 per game) & 2 TDs. In 11/26/06 game at Atl., WR DEVERY HENDERSON had 4 catches for 158 yards (39.5 avg.) & TD (76 yards). WR LANCE MOORE aims for 6th in row with TD. Has 27 catches for 398 yards & 6 TDs in past 5. Had 32-yard TD in last meeting…S ROMAN HARPER had 31-yard INT-TD in 12/10/07 meeting. LB JONATHAN VILMA had sack & 2 FFs last week. DE BOBBY MCCRAY had 2.0 sacks last week. LB SCOTT SHANLE had sack last week.

FALCONS: Have won 4 of past 5 & 6 of past 8…Rookie QB MATT RYAN won only start vs. NO, completing 16 of 23 (69.6 pct.) for 248 yards with 2 TDs vs. 0 INTs for 134.0 passer rating. Team is perfect 8-0 when Ryan has 90.0+ rating, incl. last week (130.2)…RB MICHAEL TURNER ranks 3rd in NFL with 1,208 rush yards. Had 96 yards & 1 TD in last meeting. When Turner has 8+ carries, his teams are 19-4 (.826). RB JERIOUS NORWOOD has 6 career TDs & 4 have been 67+ yards. Had 67-yard TD catch in last meeting…WR RODDY WHITE has 62 catches for 972 yards (97.2 per game) & 6 TDs in past 10, incl. 6 100-yard games. Aims for 4th in row vs. NO with TD. Rookie WR-PR HARRY DOUGLAS has rush, rec. & PR-TD in past 2…DE JOHN ABRAHAM has 22.5 sacks in past 27. Has 80.0 sacks since 2000, 3rd most in NFL. Had career-high 4.0 sacks vs. NO (11/4/01 with NYJ). Rookie CB CHEVIS JACKSON had 95-yard INT-TD in last meeting, 1st INT of career.
 
BREES is what this game boils down to.

TURNOVERS specifically

In the first game NO held Turner to 96 yards.

But Ryan was very efficient 16/23 for 248 yards and 2 TD's, no picks

Contrast that with 31/58, yes 58 attempts for BREES, 422 yards, 2 TD's, 3 PICKS

1 pick was 95 yard INT by Chevis Jackson as NO was going in at end.


----Have to think if Bree's does not turn it over as much NO is in it right.
ESPecially important considering last game vs. Bucs BREES 3 more picks maybe could be a bad sign a streaky player, maybe like McNabb Giants game spiralled him.

----HOWEVER, I looked at the drive chart. 1st BREES INT was on first possession of game for NO. It did not bite them in the ass and lead to Falcon points. The following TWO interceptions by BREES came AFTER New Orleans was down 27-13, in the 4th quarter

So you CAN't say the BREES interceptions played a huge part, Falcons put 27 up in 3 quarters without aid of interceptions

----SO,

Falcons even though they kind of controlled first game,

I point to the Following Week, DENVER. The BRONCO'S beat the Falcons

So despite first meeting if BRONCO's can beat ATL then NO can

Also IMO plays into NO's hands that they lost so bad fist time

Will be hard for ATL to do it again and revenge for NO

---Desperation definately on NO side here guys

Only two things for me in this one------DE SUSPENSIONS and BREES state
 
O-State said:
Wash a pretty good win but not sure it means much. Pitt will be a much more difficult test. Right now Pitt's is very consistent what do we have to gauge with Dallas? Started off great, then looked bad, Romo hurt look worse, Romo comes back looking decent again----just not enough here for me to bet against the best defense in the league. Not sure what I would get from Cowboys---I think it will be a great effort as they really need wins but I thougth survived Wash in must win whereas other top teams have gone in their and beat them down---Can't take inconsistency here vs. Steel Town
Click to expand...

They did survive that game but cant discount Romo coming back not fully healed and needing some reps to get back into form . Look at Phillys game Big ben 5/17 50 yards thats not manhandled when you only play one side of the ball . Dallas cant be manhandled that and Pitts defense has allowed 20+ to NYG and Indy at home ...

Also Dallas was a small fav and Pitt was a small dog in that game ....I love FADING teams off fake WINS and the Steeler win couldnt have been any more smoke and mirrors . Which I had two big plays on PITT that game....:shake:
 
Call me crazy or NUTS but you have to play DET ATS this week .

Steve Young said it best its a familiar opponent . Who they nearly upset @ Minnesota already . Without much of its DL probably . WIth extra rest compared to Minny playing the night game on Sunday .......

The crazy DET stat is teams are 1-10 ATS the week after facing DET .....hard to see even 1 reason to play CLE though . I am sure most of those 11 games didnt include the teams 3rd string QB ....

Edit that - CLE's defense played really well on Saturday and if they duplicate that again could see a 17-7 or 19-7 game ....
 
Already missed a bunch of good numbers on Philly this week so grabbed the EAGLES +7.5 -120 before it moves more....:shake:
 
Smoke and mirrors. You talk about smoke and mirrors look at the teams that the Cowboys have beaten in their 3 game winning streak. The Redskins, barely. San Fran and Seattle. Not impressive. Ill agree that a lot of what the Steelers got on defense was really the Patriots doing. But Barber will not have a good game and Romo needs to have a good game. This could happen. Our secondary is ass. Seriously its terrible. Ike Taylor has improved this year but hes gonna get smoked by T.O. Deshea Townsend is so bad. Ryan Clark, even though he unleashed the pain on Wes Welker last week he is not a good safety. He does so much stupid shit. Then there is Troy, ive honestly never thought of him as a good coverage safety but he has improved this year. He is our only hope at stopping Romo. Then there is the fact that our linebackers are just unfair. I mean in all honesty this is the sickest shit ive ever seen. Harrison, Woodley, Farrior and Foote. We can pound them if they go down the middle. I don't think Witten will have a good game at all. Woodley and Harrison have both improved a lot at pass coverage. There is a lot of ifs and this game . I think you saying that the Steelers were all smoke and mirrors is nuts though. Not to mention that the Patriots were really the fake team. There was no reason we should have lost that game ever. Cassell tore up the Jets D which is not that great and Miami D, which apparently isnt that great either. If this team makes the playoffs, they will be one and done, but I doubt they will even make the playoffs because the Ravens look pretty strong right now
 
The real problem with Pittsburgh isnt the defense as you seem to be pointing out but its the offense. Thats where you should blame them not covering.
 
Went back and read some stuff more thoroughly

....Great points by Sammy and NUT

I do agree now that I think about it about PITT. Offensive line is not traditional PITT standards IMO. Absolute struggle to run the ball. Horrible vs. Heavy BLITZ teams ala Eagles, Ravens. Roethlisberger holds onto the ball too long, interception prone.

And the defense this is not Baltimore defense with Ray Lewis when they won the Super Bowl. Yes, PITT's rated #1 in run defense and pass defense, but they are not DOMINANT like you would think. You can move the ball on them. LeBeau teams in past have been like this, bend but don't break, a defense that comes up with the big play. Give up yards but knows how to time blitzes right, just a unit that epitomizes the PITT team---they just find away and have great mental approach.

A team that certainly thrives by making opponent one dimensional and then attacking----sacks have certainly helped run stats as have numerous pass attempts when opponents are down, against heavy blitz equaling low efficiency which factors into ratings.

I think PITT is consisent though, they have their problems offensively and can give up yards defensively-----Meaning if they struggle to get a lead it will be a close ugly game. If they do get a lead PITT will dominate rest of way.

Would like to know PITT ATS 2nd HALF----when leading at half.

---Smoke and Mirrors? I call it identity. Hey they will look bad in games cause they aren't perfect but this is a big play defense. They win close games. LeBeau's career has been like this he will give stuff up but makes the big ones

Offense is a timely offense as well often muddle around and able to just get enough when needed

Kind of the personality of the Steel City this is the Steelers


----Dallas game will be a no play for me but lean Steelers. Almost like Giants/Titans I think we have to give credit to PITT---ugly but they are who they are they win close games. Know more about PITT then Dallas

Wade has taken D controls are they blitzing more----always need to factor that with BEN.

Dallas at times VERY good pass pro vs. heavy blitz-----ala vs. Philly

So that could be difference here

Thought Philly got to Romo in second half

---KEY IMO is Dallas has to get things down field. When they are not rolling everything is underneath passing wise

Excellent vs. Philly, GB two top pass D's

since then struggled offensively vs. Nati, Wash, TB----any decent pass defense
SF pass defense was horrible

----See this being an ugly close game which means PITT win and see Boys as more smoke and mirrors don't know if they will show up as smoke or a mirror

Potential. PITT is consistent and have an identiy not sure about Boys
 
Leans , games of interest :

ATS :

San Diego : Take away the OAK running game (SD 3.8 YPC L3 and 3.9 YPC at Home ) , while SD is terrible running the ball (less then 100 yds per game and only 85 L3) the OAK defense is soft vs the run (4.3 away and 4.8 L3). The SD OL has not played well at all and neither has LT while at less then 100% is no suprise really . OAK L8 games 94 pts but 31 came at Denver so 63 pts other 7 games or 9pts per . Funny I said OAK will score 10pts and I can see 21-10 finish....Its not SD defense which allwoed more then 23 points only in London and lows 20 just 3 of the past 9 games otherwise keeping teams in the teens. SD off consecutive SU home losses as favs is now still a FAV....play on teams like this IMO.

How bout this stat : OAK WR 's vs KC TOTALed 1reception for ZERO yards. At home OAK had the ball just 24 minutes

OAK is 1-10 L11 ATS vs SD . It's now or never does it really take much to make fold ?? The Raiders avg 5.2 Pts in the 1st H on the road.

Jags +7 ? Honestly how can I entertain this ? Seriously looking at what CHI has done L10 games what is much different for these teams ? Bears are 5-5 have 2 gift wins vs Philly on a goal line stand and Minny 48-41 with like 3 or 4 defensive and ST TDs . Dont see how this is more then -4.5 which was actually the lowest number I originally expected .

What killed Jax on Monday ? Execution on offense IMO and playcalling . Just cant dig CHI with 2 wins vs DET and another vs STL plus 2 fluky ones. Which means that opening day might have been their peak . ANy thoughts to Orton not being healthy as well ? he was fairly shitty @ Minny , unproductive @ STL , fairly terrible @ GB .

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=yspsctbg align=middle><TD class=ysptblhdr align=left width="20%" colSpan=3 height=18>Season Outlook</TD><TD class=yspwhitebg noWrap width=1 rowSpan=8><SPACER width="1" height="1" type="block"></TD><TD class=ysptblhdr colSpan=10>Passing</TD><TD class=yspwhitebg noWrap width=1 rowSpan=8><SPACER width="1" height="1" type="block"></TD><TD class=ysptblhdr colSpan=6>Rushing</TD><TD class=yspwhitebg noWrap width=1 rowSpan=8><SPACER width="1" height="1" type="block"></TD><TD class=ysptblhdr colSpan=3>Sacked</TD><TD class=yspwhitebg noWrap width=1 rowSpan=8><SPACER width="1" height="1" type="block"></TD><TD class=ysptblhdr colSpan=3>Fumbles</TD></TR><TR class=ysptblthbody1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspdetailttl align=left></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>G</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>QBRat </TD><TD class=yspdetailttl> Comp</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl> Att</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Pct</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Yds</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Y/G</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Y/A</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>TD</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Int</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Rush</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Yds</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Y/G</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Avg</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>TD</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Sack</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>YdsL</TD><TD></TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Fum</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>FumL</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left> Last 4 Games</TD><TD class=yspscores>4</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>64.2</TD><TD class=yspscores>49</TD><TD class=yspscores>97</TD><TD class=yspscores>50.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>526</TD><TD class=yspscores> 131.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>5.4</TD><TD class=yspscores>3</TD><TD class=yspscores>3</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>4</TD><TD class=yspscores>6</TD><TD class=yspscores>1.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>1.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>6</TD><TD class=yspscores>42</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left> Week 9 (DET)</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>81.8</TD><TD class=yspscores>8</TD><TD class=yspscores>14</TD><TD class=yspscores>57.1</TD><TD class=yspscores>108</TD><TD class=yspscores>108.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>7.7</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>7</TD><TD class=yspscores>7.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>3.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left> Week 11 (@GNB)</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>65.1</TD><TD class=yspscores>13</TD><TD class=yspscores>26</TD><TD class=yspscores>50.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>133</TD><TD class=yspscores>133.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>5.1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>8</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left> Week 12 (@STL)</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>84.2</TD><TD class=yspscores>17</TD><TD class=yspscores>28</TD><TD class=yspscores>60.7</TD><TD class=yspscores>132</TD><TD class=yspscores>132.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>4.7</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>-1</TD><TD class=yspscores>-1.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>-1.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD class=yspscores>6</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left> Week 13 (@MIN)</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>39.1</TD><TD class=yspscores>11</TD><TD class=yspscores>29</TD><TD class=yspscores>37.9</TD><TD class=yspscores>153</TD><TD class=yspscores>153.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>5.3</TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>3</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>3</TD><TD class=yspscores>28</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left> 2008 Year to Date</TD><TD class=yspscores>11</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>83.3</TD><TD class=yspscores>192</TD><TD class=yspscores>327</TD><TD class=yspscores>58.7</TD><TD class=yspscores>2195</TD><TD class=yspscores>199.5</TD><TD class=yspscores>6.7</TD><TD class=yspscores>13</TD><TD class=yspscores>7</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>15</TD><TD class=yspscores>44</TD><TD class=yspscores>4.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>2.9</TD><TD class=yspscores>1</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>20</TD><TD class=yspscores>125</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>5</TD><TD class=yspscores>4</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Bears lose Dvoracek to kill the run defense when the pass defense was already suffering. Vasher is now done as well . Mathis OUT for Jax....

Lions +10-120 :
The familiar opponent comment by Steve Young just continues to echo in my hollow head ! Mike Furrey being pissed about going on IR makes me wonder do some Lions actually have a Heart ? Does Dan O possible return at QB? The extra rest vs shorter rest ? The near upset @ Minny??

Eagles +7.5 -120 :
Longer rest and less drama actually might pay off here . As many have said in this division a TD is alot to give away ....

Saints -3 buy to -2.5 -120 :

Bengals +14-120

Denver -9.5

Buffalo -1 think Miami close the fav though

SF +4

Boys +3.5 -120 or +3

Carolina -2.5 -120/-125 Locking this is in wont close -3 IMO ..

Ravens -5

Thinking about:
CLE +14 switch to this because wont to see what the CLE defense can do here . (16-7 game ?). CLE is just odd defensively . Why ? So far 5x they allowed 14 or less points and include the 16 and 17 in 2 other games they have only allowed more then 17 pts in 5 games so far . Problem is once you get past 17 the next lowest allowed is 27points.

So 7 of 12 games they allowed 17 or less that means if this happened again we need 3 pts to PUSH . Think CLE will avoid a shutout and pretty certain of that for some reason. Titans before DET were scoring 19 (OT WIN) , 21 , 24 , 13. So really 16 and 13 last home games if we use the regulation score vs GB . Which GB defense has been exposed and NYJ defense has holes . So why couldnt CLE keep them around 17 points ? They did @ Jax , Cincy and Wash. Not great tests but not much seperation either consider ing Jax and Wash potential on the ground .

After losing to NYJ and playing on TV for Turkey Day whats the motivation here ? Decent game @ Tenny next week followed by Pitt and @ Indy . You know Dorsey is starting and just seems like the perfect game to coast and take it easy .

Winslow is OUT and CLE is 2-0 SU when he does NOT PLAY !!! The players to my suprise are rallying around Romeo !!

Funny thing is while it was preseason I thought Dorsey actually looked liek a QB most of the time and probably was the best QB in preseason . Did he figure something out ? Chad Pennington has a weak arm and is a solid NFL QB so why not the former Heisman winner ?

Last start ? 11 pt loss @ Tenny ...it was 2005 but still some familiar names ..

<TABLE class=yspwhitebg cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysptblthbody1 align=right><TD class=yspdetailttl align=left width="20%" height=18>Tennessee</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">Tack</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">Ast</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">Sack</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">Yds</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">FFum</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">FumR</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">PD</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">Int</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">Yds</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">IntTD </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> K. Bulluck</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> P. Sirmon</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> R. Hill</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> L. Thompson</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> K. Vanden Bosch</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>2.0</TD><TD>5.0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> A. Haynesworth</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> A. Woolfolk</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> P. Jones</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> T. LaBoy</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> R. Boiman</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> R. Starks</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> R. Reynolds</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> T. Williams</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> B. Kassell</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> A. Odom</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Looking at who Dorsey faced he had some tough teams to face @ NE to end 2004 ..

Think I am a BROWNIE , damn you Joe Public !!

Houston and GB ? NE @ SEA ? STL @ ZONA ??

Those 3 games no opinions now leaning GB and 2 pups flipping to STL possibly in the Zona game ....possibly only:shake:

TOTALS only quick leans really not much research
Under Oakland ?
Under Cleveland?
Over Minnesota ? depends on who QBs Det
Over Bears ?
Over Colts?
Over GB?
Under Denver ?(28-17?)
Under Seattle??
Over Buffalo ?
Under SF 45 lock it in !
1st H over STL?
Under 36 Wash ??


Dig in .......
:pillow:







 
AlexGurv1987 said:
The real problem with Pittsburgh isnt the defense as you seem to be pointing out but its the offense. Thats where you should blame them not covering.
Click to expand...


That's what I did say . I listed Big Ben's stats vs the quality teams and cited the OL as the major factor . Which combined with Fast Willie's injury and some others at times on offense have saddled Pitt. I am not blaming the defense I am saying as good as the defense is the good teams are still scoring 20 points vs them sometimes a tad more. Which is not something I can say Pitt can definetly do vs a quality team because I think in regulation 20 was the most they did score twice before Sunday and the last 20 Sunday were off turnovers ......:cheers:
 
AlexGurv1987 said:
Smoke and mirrors. You talk about smoke and mirrors look at the teams that the Cowboys have beaten in their 3 game winning streak. The Redskins, barely. San Fran and Seattle. Not impressive. Ill agree that a lot of what the Steelers got on defense was really the Patriots doing. But Barber will not have a good game and Romo needs to have a good game. This could happen. Our secondary is ass. Seriously its terrible. Ike Taylor has improved this year but hes gonna get smoked by T.O. Deshea Townsend is so bad. Ryan Clark, even though he unleashed the pain on Wes Welker last week he is not a good safety. He does so much stupid shit. Then there is Troy, ive honestly never thought of him as a good coverage safety but he has improved this year. He is our only hope at stopping Romo. Then there is the fact that our linebackers are just unfair. I mean in all honesty this is the sickest shit ive ever seen. Harrison, Woodley, Farrior and Foote. We can pound them if they go down the middle. I don't think Witten will have a good game at all. Woodley and Harrison have both improved a lot at pass coverage. There is a lot of ifs and this game . I think you saying that the Steelers were all smoke and mirrors is nuts though. Not to mention that the Patriots were really the fake team. There was no reason we should have lost that game ever. Cassell tore up the Jets D which is not that great and Miami D, which apparently isnt that great either. If this team makes the playoffs, they will be one and done, but I doubt they will even make the playoffs because the Ravens look pretty strong right now
Click to expand...

Chill AG. I know Steeler talk gets you riled up so I will be patient .


I NEVER said the Steelers were smoke and mirrors . What I said was the WIN vs NE was smoke and mirrors . It's an illusion created by momentum . Thats my opinion . I had a max play on Pitt this Sunday because I felt similiar about the NE win @ Miami it was nothing like the final score read. I also had a big lay on the Pitt 1st Half. So I followed that game closely .

The comment means this . The game swung Pitt's way as the momentum did that is how almost every football game works but sometimes it really skews things IMO . Pitt trailed nearly the entire 1st half until Big Ben finally put the offense on the board with a TD pass just after the 2 minute warning ..I did knock the Steeler defense because IMO its a huge negative to get a TD before half to TIE a game then watch your supposed cornerstone go out and allow the opponent to get to your 9yd line and take 3 hacks at the end zone . Is that now what happened ? Did Randy Moss NOT drop a TD pass on one of those 2 hacks ? Did Gostkowski not become the Goat when he missed a 27 yd FG ?

So how do you know that down 13-10 or 17-10 and allowing NE to recapture the momentum before half that when NE started with the football in the 2nd H they would have punted ?? Momentum is funny if NE puts points on the board before half it changes the entire complex of the game . It could lead to NE scoring on the opening drive of the 2nd H . Until momentum clearly flipped to Pitt the Steeler defense had 1 sack and No Turnovers in the 1st H that is fact ......

So Smoke and Mirrors is my opinion about the Steeler WIN @ NE from a guy who max bet the Steelers and banged them hard in the 1st Half as well ...

Wont even read the rest of the psot because it probably doesnt apply . How did Pitt fare @ Philly and vs NYG two other divisonal rivals off Dallas ?

Pitt has clearly battled injuries all season among the things I mentioned and NE may start them on a serious roll. I still need to some offensive cohesiveness vs quality teams . Again take out the 5 garbage defense Pitt played and Ben is 4 TDs and 11 Ints ....

:cheers:
 
I read the rest of your post anyway and I agree. I said turnovers and Romo's play will decide this game way back when . It's not the Pats that are the fraud is the NFL minus NYG and probably Tenny that is . All these teams are schizo . :shake:
 
NUt- does the Will Smith injury scare you a bit w/ your potential Saints play? I'm liking them, but worried about that. NO D is a bit stronger at home, but they need all the help they can get - that's a big hit to them.


As for the Pitt total, doesn't it seem crazy low? It's even ticked downward. Seems to be predicting an Under there. I would think it should be at 44 or so.
 
Tito said:
NUt- does the Will Smith injury scare you a bit w/ your potential Saints play? I'm liking them, but worried about that. NO D is a bit stronger at home, but they need all the help they can get - that's a big hit to them.


As for the Pitt total, doesn't it seem crazy low? It's even ticked downward. Seems to be predicting an Under there. I would think it should be at 44 or so.
Click to expand...

The whole situation surrounding the NO DEF does scare me but the game has to be about the offense and what it does IMO. So does it change my play or strength of play at the moment it does not. My play was about the huge difference in the play of the Brees and the offense at home but also noting that the defense has held its own in the Dome .

Thinking weather at Pitt is whats pushing it lower .

24 degrees , 11-12 MPH crosswinds it looks like , Big Ben questionable now thanks to injury , Marion the Barbarian G/T decision and War questionable as well. Definetly waiting to as late as possible to decide on that game...:shake:
 
Betting vs Atlanta is suicide, IMO Saints are erratic, they can be good, or really bad-

Falsons are way too consistent for them, we know Turner will run, RYAN will make big pass plays vs Saints weak pass D--

Falcons are a blue collared team, they try every weak, I think i would bet vs some other team rather than this team who is overall very good and consistent--

Saints could just qiut on the year, if Brees is struggling also, Dont think BRees can win this game by himself over a more consistent team in ATLANTA< cause they hold onto the balllfor ever also.
 
ATL is consistent but they are basically slightily above avg . Turner has nice stats but who has avgd more then 4+ yds plus vs? KC , GB , Oakland and Carolina . Credit for the Panthers but not much else. SD was decent 31c 120 yds 3.9 yds per but long of only 15 yds . The teams they beat simply beat themselves .

What did they do to beat SD last week ? Kaeding missed a short FG , Rivers took a safety , and because of a failed 2 pt conversion they lost an XP . The Chargers lost by 6 points and thats 6 points right there.

SD didnt have many possessions and continues to fail to pick up short yardage much worse then Philly has struggled . Stupid TOD on the opening drive = 4th and 3 at the ATL 34 yd line . Why are you going for it on the opening possession ? Not sure of the wind but why cant Kaeding hit a 51-52 yder or why is that a lower probability then picking up a 4th and 3 ?? Not to mention they were getting yards in chunks through the air and once they got to ATLs 40 he runs on 1st down and of course its stuffed .

They get a safety on a play from the 5 yd line and a drive which started on the 8 yd line . Again baffling.

Now clearly the ATL turnovers were costly but on the road @ SD I expected turnovers . Its not like ATL was home. Granted SD also had a goal stand as well .

Still SD at home gets to the ATL 31 and penalty for holding and winds up settling for 3 and Kaedings FG is blocked.

SD just baffles me . ATL did play well on offense and move the ball were hurt by 4 turnovers otherwise maybe it gets ugly . Still they always had great field position and SD self destructed time and time again while never enjoying field position in the 2nd Q......

Just not a huge fan of ATL yet ...........Saints or pass no concerns really on my part .
 
NFL Briefs
December 3, 2008



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
Ben Roethlisberger sat out the final 20 minutes of the Pittsburgh Steelers' practice Wednesday after his right leg slipped while he was throwing a pass.
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width=280 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=adlabel width=270 height=10>Advertisement</TD><TD width=10 rowSpan=3><SPACER type="block" height="1" width="10"></TD></TR><TR><TD class=onav vAlign=center align=middle width=270 height=270><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" bgColor=#fcf5e5 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle width=268 height=268><SCRIPT language=JavaScript> <!--// /*mag spot*/if (!vTag) {var vTag="ros;type=ros";}if (!random) {var abc = Math.random() + ""; var random = abc.substring(2,abc.length);}document.write('<script src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/imu.vegasinsider.com/'+vTag+';sz=250x250;tile=7;ord='+random+'?"><\/script>'); // --> </SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/imu.vegasinsider.com/nfl;arena=nfl;feat=stories;type=psa;sz=250x250;tile=7;ord=32062468140291605?"></SCRIPT>http://ad.doubleclick.net/click;h=v...05299/1;;~sscs=?http://www.allhorseracing.com </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD width=270 height=10><SPACER type="block" height="10" width="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>The problem is not believed to be serious, but backup quarterback Bryan Leftwich finished out practice as a precaution.
Roethlisberger apparently slipped in some mud on the Steelers' outdoor practice field. Coach Mike Tomlin prefers to practice outdoors most days when the Steelers are to play in a cold-weather city, as they will Sunday at home against Dallas.
Tomlin did not speak to reporters after practice. Roethlisberger was listed on the team's injury chart as being a limited participant in practice.
Wednesday's weather was mild by Pittsburgh standards for the first week of December, with temperatures in the mid-40s and a partly cloudy sky.
Tennessee backup quarterback Vince Young sat out practice with an infection in his right thumb. Coach Jeff Fisher said the Titans will not let him throw for a couple days to let the injury heal.
Fisher said Young had an infection in the corner of the cuticle of the thumb on his throwing hand. They put Young on antibiotics after the game with the weekend off.
``The antibiotics didn't do the trick. It spread a little bit, so we're just treating the infection. We expect him to play. We're just going to back him down from throwing the next few days,'' Fisher said.
Young's thumb is a bit swollen and sore.
The 2006 NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year came in as a substitute for Kerry Collins and wrapped up the Titans' 47-10 win over Detroit on Thanksgiving.
Young made national news when Fisher called police for help finding the quarterback the day after he sprained his knee in September, an incident they all called blown out of proportion even though SWAT officers and crisis negotiators were on hand to assist. Collins was handed the starting job immediately after that episode.
Cornerback Nick Harper also did not practice Wednesday because of an ankle problem, and cornerback Cortland Finnegan (hamstring) sat out on one of the Titans' shortest injury reports in weeks.
Middle linebacker Gary Brackett is expected to miss at least two games with a cracked bone in his lower right leg.
Coach Tony Dungy said Wednesday that Brackett would be replaced in the lineup by little-used Buster Davis. Indianapolis signed Davis in September after he was waived by the Detroit Lions.
Brackett injured his leg in the second quarter Sunday against Cleveland when he wound up at the bottom of a pile.
The loss of Brackett could have a significant impact on the Colts' improving defense. Brackett is the defensive captain, makes all the play calls and wears the new radio helmet. Dungy said it was like losing a quarterback.
Brackett's absence is yet another blow in an injury rash for Indianapolis.
Jeff Saturday, the three-time Pro Bowl center, is expected to miss his second straight game with a strained left calf, and the Colts have already lost starting cornerback Marlin Jackson, backup running back Mike Hart and left guard Ryan Lilja for the season with knee injuries.
Davis has played in only two games this season and has been inactive for eight of the past nine weeks.
``It's a big loss,'' said DE Robert Mathis. ``He's our captain, he gets everybody in position. But the next guy just has to step up.''
The Williams wall isn't the only part of Minnesota's front four that might be missing this week.
Vikings coach Brad Childress confirmed backup defensive end Brian Robison had arthroscopic knee surgery Tuesday. Robison left last Sunday's game against the Bears for a brief time after getting hurt, but he later returned after limping off the field.
Childress declined to declare Robison out for this week's game against winless Detroit, saying ``people heal differently.'' Robison is an end by trade, but has played inside some this season.
Star defensive tackles Kevin Williams and Pat Williams were suspended for four games Tuesday by the NFL for testing positive for violating the league's anti-doping policy.
The players don't count against the 53-man active roster during their punishment. The Vikings filled one of their spots by signing defensive tackle Jimmy Kennedy, who was let go last week by Jacksonville.
Running back Adrian Peterson joined Robison in the training room during Wednesday's practice. He has taken a handful of days off this season to rest. Right guard Anthony Herrera was also absent; he was with family following the death of his brother.
Former Patriots wide receiver Deion Branch is confident Tom Brady will make a solid comeback from his season-ending left knee injury.
Branch spent four seasons as Brady's teammate in New England and was the MVP of the 2004 Super Bowl. The Patriots traded him to Seattle after the 2006 opener while he was holding out for a new contract. They visit the Seahawks on Sunday.
Branch said Wednesday he talks and exchanges text messages with Brady frequently. And he said the quarterback's strong mental outlook will allow him to prevail. Brady tore two ligaments in his season opener. At the time, Branch was in the final stages of his recovery from a torn ligament in his left knee.
Quarterback Carson Palmer plans to test his right elbow in the next few days, giving him a better idea of whether he will need reconstructive surgery.
Palmer said Wednesday he's still on schedule to throw a football at the end of the week, the first time he's done so in nine weeks. The elbow was injured when his arm got hit as he threw a pass in the third game of the season against the Giants.
If Palmer's elbow is still bothering him when he resumes throwing, he'll likely have reconstructive surgery.
``Like I keep saying, if I knew I had to have the surgery, I'd already have it done,'' Palmer said. ``I'll see what the doctors say, have it checked out and go with a professional decision from a doctor.''
Palmer partially tore a tendon and ligament from the bone in his right elbow. He rested one week, then played in a loss at Dallas on Oct. 5. He realized he couldn't throw as hard as normal in that one, and began the recommended rest of two months, followed by some throwing.
Palmer has thrown a sponge football during his rehabilitation, but only about 10 yards.
``But it was accurate, though,'' he said. ``A tight spiral.''
Oakland will be without starting center Jake Grove for Thursday's game at San Diego and may also be missing wide receiver Ashley Lelie.
Grove, who has not played since injuring a calf muscle during a 17-6 loss to Carolina on Nov. 9, has been working out on his own in practice but has not healed enough to play. Having a short week - the Raiders are playing only four days after losing to Kansas City last Sunday - also convinced interim head coach Tom Cable to keep his center sidelined one more week.
``I think if we were playing Sunday I'd probably be ready to go,'' Grove said Wednesday. ``But it's just too quick of a turnaround. It ain't going to do anybody any good for me to come back and play three plays and then not play the rest of the year. I just have to deal with this right now and try to come back strong for those last three games.''
Veteran center John Wade, who signed in the offseason after four years as a starter in Tampa Bay, will play in Grove's place.
Wade struggled in his first game replacing Grove, but has settled in lately, according to Cable.
``He is improving,'' Cable said. ``Certainly he's got a tremendous matchup this week with Jamal Williams, so we need him to play his best. That first game we played them (Grove) played really, really well against Jamal. So obviously we'll miss him, but it's good for John.''
Lelie was held out of practice for a second straight day because of a headache. Cable was unsure if it was a migraine, but listed the veteran receiver as questionable on the injury report.
Quarterback Trent Edwards missed practice with a groin injury, opening the possibility of J.P. Losman making his first start in more than a year on Sunday, when Buffalo hosts the Dolphins in Toronto.
Noting that Edwards was still ``pretty sore,'' coach Dick Jauron said the decision on the quarterback won't be made until gametime. Edwards walked with a slight limp as he watched practice from behind the line of scrimmage.
Edwards tried to play through the injury before being sidelined after the first half of a 10-3 loss to San Francisco on Sunday.
Losman took over and went 11-of-17 for 93 yards, but failed to generate a touchdown as Buffalo came away with three points on three trips inside the 49ers 20 in the second half. Losman lost his job twice to Edwards last season and hasn't started since a 36-14 loss at Jacksonville on Nov. 25, 2007.
The Bills (6-6) have lost five of six and dropped to the fringes of the AFC playoff race as they prepare to play division rival Miami (7-5) at Toronto's Rogers Centre.
Houston has found a simple recipe for success in its two-game winning streak: force turnovers.
The Texans had nine takeaways in their first 10 games combined, but have gotten eight in the last two weeks against Cleveland and Jacksonville.
``If we win turnover battles we win games,'' coach Gary Kubiak said. ``That's a big part of football. If you win the turnover battle you're getting great field position, good things are happening for your team. It's always been a key for us and we've obviously done a better job here in the last few weeks.''
Houston had three interceptions and a pair of fumble recoveries two weeks ago against the Browns to tie a single-game franchise record for takeaways. On Monday against the Jaguars, the Texans recovered two fumbles and had an interception.
Linebacker DeMeco Ryans said he talked to the defense after the Cleveland game about trying to outdo the five turnovers against Jacksonville. It didn't work out that way, but the three takeaways are tied for second most this season.
``We talked about it during the entire game,'' Ryans said. ``I got up and talked to the guys and challenged them to go get six this week. Every time we got a turnover we were like: 'How many do we have to get now?' So we were keeping count on the sideline. Guys were into what we were doing so we were very focused on getting those turnovers.''
New Orleans added defensive end Rob Ninkovic and safety Terrence Holt to the active roster a day after the NFL announced the suspensions of six players, including Saints running back Deuce McAllister and defensive end Will Smith.
Ninkovic, drafted by the Saints in 2006, was signed off of the Dolphins' practice squad. Ninkovic had been playing inside linebacker at Miami, but came to New Orleans as a defensive end out of Purdue.
As a rookie, Ninkovic played in three regular-season games for New Orleans before his season ended with a knee injury. He returned to the Saints in 2007, but hurt his other knee during training camp. He was later waived and claimed by Miami.
Holt, the brother of St. Louis receiver Torry Holt, started 15 games for Detroit in 2006 and started 16 games last season for Arizona. He spent training camp with Carolina but did not make the roster. Chicago picked him up in October but did not play him before releasing him in early November.
Like Orlando Pace a week earlier, linebacker Chris Draft appears ready to return to the lineup ahead of schedule.
They're setting an example for teammates that it's important to play to the finish, even if the season is a lost cause.
``If nothing else, it shows you some of the character you have on the team,'' coach Jim Haslett said. ``Now, it's not equating to wins enough, but it does show you at the end of the year when you're evaluating your team, what kind of guys you want.
``Those are the guys you like to have.''
Pace was supposed to be out two to four weeks with a knee strain, but the seven-time Pro Bowler missed only one game. He drew a tough assignment in his return, but helped shut down NFL sacks leader Joey Porter in a loss to the Dolphins last week.
``I thought he did a great job,'' Haslett said. ``He's a tough guy who wants to come out there and play.''
The Rams estimated Draft would be sidelined three to six weeks with a broken bone in his right foot. He started running last week and is on track to return for Sunday's game, starting at middle linebacker for the first time this season at Arizona after missing four games.
Rookie offensive tackle Sam Baker returned for his first limited participation in practice since his back surgery on Oct. 30.
Baker, a first-round pick from Southern Cal who started five games, had missed practice since the procedure to remove herniated disk material. Baker participated in some drills and then had extra running after Wednesday's practice.
By losing their last two games, the Cardinals aren't exactly rushing toward their first division title in 33 years. In fact, they aren't rushing anywhere these days.
The question is whether they have to. With quarterback Kurt Warner putting up MVP-type numbers and receivers Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald and Steve Breaston creating matchup nightmares for opponents, the Cardinals (7-5) may be better off flinging the ball all over the field.
``We're doing some things well moving the football, and I don't think you can ignore that,'' coach Ken Whisenhunt said. ``If it does require for us, to continue to be successful, throwing the ball a little bit more, then I think that's just being smart with the personnel that we've got.''
Still, Whisenhunt wants to run better, and it would be hard for the Cardinals to be much worse. They rank 32nd in in rushing, averaging 76.4 yards per game, less than half as many as the league-leading Giants.
Relief could be on the way. On Sunday, the Cardinals play host to the lowly St. Louis Rams, who are 30th in rush defense.
A victory would give the Cardinals their first division title since 1975 and guarantee the second home playoff date in club history; the first came in 1947, when the Cardinals nested in Chicago.
The only thing that stands in their way is St. Louis (2-10). The last time the teams met, Arizona romped for a season-high 177 yards in a 34-13 victory on Nov. 2 in St. Louis.
Asked if he thought the Cardinals would emphasize the run on Sunday, Rams coach Jim Haslett replied, ``I think they will because that's what they did against us the last couple times. They were successful against us, and we didn't do a very good job stopping the run. So we feel that that's probably how they'll attack us.''
Considering he left the field on a cart with a sprained right ankle last month, quarterback Kyle Orton has a ready-made excuse for his recent struggles.
Not that he would use it.
While his ankle injury didn't help, the Bears (6-6) aren't exactly getting healthy contributions from their receivers lately. With a chance to take control of the NFC North, Chicago stumbled badly last week in a 34-14 loss at Minnesota and fell a game behind the Vikings.
Their quarterback had his worst game, and instead of bailing him out, the receivers dropped passes and got locked up by the defense. Now, the team that can't seem to catch the ball lately is playing catch-up.
``Obviously, it doesn't take a genius to point out that we're not really executing, not doing too well right now, especially in the passing game,'' tight end Greg Olsen said.
Orton clearly hasn't been himself since he got carted off the field near the end of the first half against Detroit on Nov. 2. He sat out against Tennessee the following week and has been just a 49 percent passer the past three games, with three touchdowns and three interceptions - all of the picks at Minnesota last week.
It was an uncharacteristically sloppy night for Orton, who had gone six games and thrown 206 passes without getting picked off. That streak ended in the third quarter when Darren Sharper intercepted a pass that was badly underthrown.
Former Penn State player Jeremy Kapinos signed with the Packers after a round of tryouts. A 6-foot-1, 230-pound first-year punter, Kapinos spent time with the New York Jets in 2007.
He'll replace Derrick Frost, who was released on Monday after the Packers had seen enough of his inconsistent performance in games.
But with the weather turning foul in Green Bay and a game against Houston coming up at Lambeau Field on Sunday, can the Packers really count on a new punter being able to play?
Packers coach Mike McCarthy said they don't have a choice.
``I want him to punt the ball in the right direction,'' McCarthy said. ``I'm expected to win games. He's expected to punt the ball in the right direction.''
Then, McCarthy added, ``I'm not trying to be funny.''
The Packers' punting game hasn't provided too many laughs through the first 12 games.
Frost, signed when the team cut Jon Ryan just before the season opener, performed well in practices but couldn't carry it over to games. Kapinos will try to improve on Frost's punting performance. But he won't be asked to take over Frost's duties as the holder for placekicker Mason Crosby, a duty that will fall to backup quarterback Matt Flynn.
Running back Ryan Grant practiced with a splint on his sprained thumb.
``He looked OK,'' McCarthy said. ``We weren't in pads. He went through the ball security drills, had a chance to watch him go through that. He looked to be better than he was on Sunday.''
Grant hurt his thumb in the loss to Carolina, and wasn't allowed to return because coaches were worried about his ability to hold onto the ball.
Backup Brandon Jackson gained 80 yards on 11 carries, strengthening his bid for increased playing time. Jackson was limited in Wednesday's practice with a quadriceps injury but is expected to practice later in the week.
Denver signed free agent safety Herana-Daze Jones, a special teams ace recently released by Cincinnati, to replace defensive tackle Josh Shaw on the roster.
Shaw was placed on injured reserve after dislocating his left elbow Sunday in the Broncos' 34-17 win over the New York Jets. The backup DT played in five games for Denver this season, posting three tackles.
Jones was released by the Bengals on Nov. 4 after 3 1/2 seasons in Cincinnati. In 28 career games, Jones has 41 special teams tackles and seven defensive stops. He had four special teams tackles in three games this season.
[/FONT]
 
Again not a very interesting primetime game . I have taken SD the past 2 weeks and this team is BROKEN . Still though I have no interest at the moment in taking OAK . The passing game has shown no signs of improvement really couldnt be worse then the KC game could it ? I mean completion to a WR for zero yards ?? Lelie questionable , Curry and Schillens banged up but probable. Walker is out and Miller tweaked a groin . SD solid vs the run and OAK playing w/o Grove continues to be somehwat interesting . SD needs to get the running game and convert these short yardage plays that have crushd them in 2008 and what better opponent then OAK to do that ?

For me it has to be SD either Lev 1 but probaly Level 2 since reason in keep it in a minimal play after 2 weeks of some decent losses on them. Hostorically SD owns this team and is 10-0 L10 Dec games vs OAK 1-9 L10 Dec games . Thin SD is 10-1 L11 ATS as well .......off consecutive SU losses as home favs and still favored have to roll with the team with much more offensive talent ....originall thought the under as well thinking 21-10 game but undecided to if I playit now that is how dropped....

:cheers:Be Back shortly to figure out what I play . Did play Louisville or will play it in CFB just line hawking ......GL
 
Here it is ...

SD -9.5 {Level 2 }
SD 1st H -6.5 -120 {Level 2}

Teaser : SD -9.5 , Denver -9.5 and Bills PK

TT:{Level1s}
Under 16.5 OAK-115
Over 26 SD -115

Props :(all very small plays)
Gates -2.5 yds +110 vs Miller
Rivers Under 20 completions +125

Good Luck all....:cheers:Nothing to get crazy about IMO here tonight
 
SportsNut said:
Here it is ...

SD -9.5 {Level 2 }WINNER
SD 1st H -6.5 -120 {Level 2} WINNER

Teaser : SD -9.5 , Denver -9.5 and Bills PK

TT:{Level1s}
Under 16.5 OAK-115 WINNER
Over 26 SD -115 WINNER

Props :(all very small plays)
Gates -2.5 yds +110 vs Miller LOSS
Rivers Under 20 completions +125 WIN

2nd H :
Under 19-115 {Level1 } WINNER

Good Luck all....:cheers:Nothing to get crazy about IMO here tonight
Click to expand...

SD 27-7 Halftime .

Expecting more of the same in the 2nd H . Russell is DOUBTFUL for return and he was okay minus the INTs. Expecting more of the same in the 2nd H and SD to RUN, RUN , RUN , and RUN some more . Jacob Hester in the 4th quarter .....

Lean 2nd H Under .....probably will play it for a Level 1 play .......

2nd H under 19-115 {Level 1}

:shake:
 
Last edited:
Tito said:
nice work tonight nut
Click to expand...

Thanks Tito. Always nice to win the next one after a loss . Well also with the CFB game tonight needed a good showing in the NFL. Nice to have a game almost exactly like you expected ...always helps the confidence heading into the weekend. GL :shake:
 
New Orleans Saints place safety Kevin Kaesviharn on injured reserve

Posted by Teddy Kider, The Times-Picayune December 04, 2008 2:05PM

Categories: Saints
The Saints placed starting safety Kevin Kaesviharn on the injured reserve list Thursday, ending his season after he suffered his second stinger in four weeks.
With defensive end Charles Grant's move this week from the injured reserve to the suspended reserve list, there are now 14 players on the Saints' injured reserve list.

The Saint signed defensive end Tearrius George from the Dallas Cowboys' practice squad to take Kaesviharn's active roster spot.
Fullback Mike Karney and linebacker Troy Evans both were on the injury report Thursday but had full practices.
 
NUT, I don't think you can deny the fact that New Orleans is basically playing for pride and a fools dream, as opposed to ATL who is right in the playoff hunt still in what is basically a MUST WIN this week...

week 13 and on is always a need to win basis for me personally...but BOL
 
Federal Judge blocked the suspensions for the Vikigns and Saints players

There playing this week
 
Billivy said:
NUT, I don't think you can deny the fact that New Orleans is basically playing for pride and a fools dream, as opposed to ATL who is right in the playoff hunt still in what is basically a MUST WIN this week...

week 13 and on is always a need to win basis for me personally...but BOL
Click to expand...


Definetly valid. Just see ATL as pretender. They have "quality wins" vs NO , Car and @SD. Just a team who like last week either plays really well and allows the other team to hang around or plays medicore and it doesnt reflect in the final score . With all these damn injuries I dont know though and have to check back later tonight ....

:shake:
 
Week #14

Lions +10 or better and 1st Half :
-Like taking DET off an embarrassing game
-Like the winless factor and 0-6 SU and ATS home factor
-Like the winnable opponent factor and familiar opponent angle
-Like Culpepper vs Minnesota with Calvin Johnson to toss to
-Like Minny nursing some injuries and the suspension cloud
-It's still DET though

Eagles +7.5 -120 {Level2}
-Feel like minus Plax and Dallas on deck this becomes what its supposed to be a NFC EAST battle . Extra rest for Philly certainly doesnt hurt

Bengals +14 or better : {Level3} :
- Cruising mode for banged up Colts with Cincy then Det coming to town. Cincy's offense may suprise..

Bills -1 waiting though :{Level2}
- Neutral field and see Buffalo getting this win. Miami just sliding past 4 or 5 weeks. Big deal SF beat them . Didnt Oak and SEA almost beat Miami ? Whats worse ?

Ravens -5 {level1}
Might add to but Skins spiraling and Balt offense has grown..

Panthers -2.5 -120 {Level3 ++ meaning might add to it}
Think TB is ripe for a poor game just surviving way to much lately

Zona and STL keep bouncing back and forth .....:cheers:

late SAT thoughts !!BOL





Leaning towards :
Jaguars +6.5 or better :
-Bears defense banged up and Dvoracek out opens the door to run on them . We already know the pass defense not to special .
-Struggling offense since Orton was initially hurt
-Despite cold weather the jags always traveled well in cold weather

Saints -3 or less :
- Only concern NO injury report

Browns +14 or better :
- DD dog

GB -6 :
-Texans like 5-17 L22 away
-Cold weather
-MNF letdown
-Schaub returning rusty and in cold temps

Broncos: -9 :
Like teams off upsets who return home and they have payback vs KC

Seattle +6.5 or more:
Whats worse NE defensive injuries or Hasselback not starting ?

49ers +4
-Tough travel for Jets
-SF playing hard and improving

Boys +3
-Even w/o Marion the Barbarian
















 
Thoughts on the Bears/Jags total? Was leaning Under myself with the Bears offensive struggles of late, sort of thinking a 20-17 type game.
 
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