Should Texas Fire Charlie Strong?

And the day they start paying players in the way people are discussing, the sport is dead to me.


I agree. It is a great higher education opportunity (for free) for a scholly player and an audition to play in the NFL.

What is the issue?
 
Not all football programs make money to support themselves. Sure the big boys do .. but a lot of those smaller schools lose money on the football program.

It is a voluntary act to play college football and one in which the school actually gives away scholarships to academically undeserving students. That should be enough. If they want to get paid, go to the NFL or CFL or Arena league. Oh you are not good enough? Then get the free training that the schools are providing you to get good enough. Oh you are still not good enough? Use the expensive education they are providing to your for free to learn a skill or trade to make a good life for yourself. If you don't think that playing college football is good for you then don't play. It's that simple.

What is not simple is starting to pay college athletes. How do you pay the football player more than the swim team player? Do you now have to market each sport equally to be fair to each STUDENT-athlete? It is such a slippery slope .... and it will make the sport and recruiting all the more ugly. Don't get me wrong, it is tough for Texas to compete in recruiting with programs like Bama and Oklahoma who are already paying players but once paying becomes acceptable it is going to get seriously nasty.

great post

except for the jab at the other schools.

other than that I agree.
 
I haven't read the whole thread and I'm not going to, but Texas should fire the AD, and then fire their stupid fucking fans and boosters. Charlie Strong is the one guy who should still be standing when its all said and done. If they can him, I hope he goes to another Big 12 school (like KSU after Snyder is gone) and fucks Texas up each year for their arrogance and stupidity.
 
And the day they start paying players in the way people are discussing, the sport is dead to me.

A highly-publicized Carnegie Foundation report in 1929 on the problem of cheating and corruption in college sports found, “Of the 112 schools surveyed, eighty-one flouted NCAA recommendations with inducements to students ranging from open payrolls and disguised booster funds to no-show jobs at movie studios."

Still, I'm sympathetic to your position.
 
Yeah but there isn't a correction coming IMO

The only way a correction comes is if payments to players reach a level where universities are uncomfortable. Then a reasonable amount of universities go to a truly amateur model where only kids who would have been admitted to the school regardless of athletic prowess play football. That's about the only way I can see business getting out of the way. I wouldn't be opposed to the NFL coming up with their own minor league system but they're not even going to think about it as long as colleges are providing that for free. And colleges aren't about to stop providing it as long as the football program is a cash cow that funds the entire athletic department and then some

I think Charlie has shown, given the topic is about Texas, that education is just as important to these student athletes...he holds them to higher standards now compared to when mack was there and weeded out the "misfits"
 
I haven't read the whole thread and I'm not going to, but Texas should fire the AD, and then fire their stupid fucking fans and boosters. Charlie Strong is the one guy who should still be standing when its all said and done. If they can him, I hope he goes to another Big 12 school (like KSU after Snyder is gone) and fucks Texas up each year for their arrogance and stupidity.

The fanbase is behind Strong.

Our weasel AD is despised, and beyond. Hopefully, the latter issue will be taken care of soon.
 
Ya'll understand Texas more than me.

He hired Strong(whom yall seem to love, I guess) AND Shaka Smart right?

why is he out?
 
There is no gun to the heads of these kids. They do not have to play college football. They can practice at any number of camps and then go on to the NFL. If it is not good for them, they have the option to not do it.

You are effectively going to end college sports. There is no way you can pay all the college athletes. Women won't even be able to play sports anymore because all of their programs will have to be shut down.
This is a strong point. Not to mention Title9 implications. A lot of SEC teams don't even have soccer teams because SEC does not have soccer due to Title9. SC has to play in CUSA for soccer due to this. The point of where it goes from there in terms of all sports is the slippery slope for me. Some schools operate a net negative budget aside from football. I am sure a good more than I think operate a net negative budget across the board.
 
In regards to Strong someone else made the point that he has 0 connections in Texas and neither do any of his coaches in regards to recruiting. He is also a poor fit schematically. He is not a bad coach just not a good coach for Texas. Shoot SC will take him once Spurrier admits he has Alzheimer's
 
In regards to Strong someone else made the point that he has 0 connections in Texas and neither do any of his coaches in regards to recruiting. He is also a poor fit schematically. He is not a bad coach just not a good coach for Texas. Shoot SC will take him once Spurrier admits he has Alzheimer's

hired a HS coach last year to coach Special teams. he's an east texas guru.

brick is the new DL coach, came from LSU. houston coaches love him.
 
Ya'll understand Texas more than me.

He hired Strong(whom yall seem to love, I guess) AND Shaka Smart right?

why is he out?

he pissed off a lot of the big money donors and alienated a bunch of them as well. he raised ticket prices for football after an abysmal season, jacked up prices for basketball as well.

took away meals from walk ons, and limited the amount of meals coaches were allowed to get for free. started charging them money for food in the most profitable athletic department in the world.

couldn't raise money for the new basketball arena.

fired a bunch of people in the athletic department that were well respected.

didn't inform the basketball team about playing games in fucking china.

took a big dumb plane to goddamn dubai for a fundraising trip, while ignoring the billionaire donors in tejas.

etc, etc, etc
 
The above and more. He was also a disingenuous and duplicitous snake. Patterson was the most despised and disliked person ever associated with Texas athletics. It's not even close for second place. He had no business being employed with Texas any longer. Now the fanbase and supporters of the program can move forward without this albatross in tow.

Get the feeling Patterson was really, really disliked? Yep, he was.

 
Charlie started the right QB this week. No surprise that I do not keep up with the 'horns.
Having seen Jerrod many times in high school, I'm hoping he's the qb that's needed.
 
Interim AD (Mike Perrin, ex player from the late 60's) to serve through next August.

Lots of happiness in Austin tonight.
 
Strong's in over his head, exacerbated by a fuck stick AD that didn't support him. But that's still not an excuse. Can't believe we've sunk to this level, to the point where TCU is pulling in the reins with mercy early in the second half.

Jesus.
 
i find it hilarious that you should give a guy 3 years to build his program...THe guy is being paid millions of dollars, cut your losses, see Jim Harbough.
 
Not all football programs make money to support themselves. Sure the big boys do .. but a lot of those smaller schools lose money on the football program.

It is a voluntary act to play college football and one in which the school actually gives away scholarships to academically undeserving students. That should be enough. If they want to get paid, go to the NFL or CFL or Arena league. Oh you are not good enough? Then get the free training that the schools are providing you to get good enough. Oh you are still not good enough? Use the expensive education they are providing to your for free to learn a skill or trade to make a good life for yourself. If you don't think that playing college football is good for you then don't play. It's that simple.

What is not simple is starting to pay college athletes. How do you pay the football player more than the swim team player? Do you now have to market each sport equally to be fair to each STUDENT-athlete? It is such a slippery slope .... and it will make the sport and recruiting all the more ugly. Don't get me wrong, it is tough for Texas to compete in recruiting with programs like Bama and Oklahoma who are already paying players but once paying becomes acceptable it is going to get seriously nasty.

One of your more coherent posts; couldn't agree more.
 
Very unlikely Strong is going anywhere. We've got an interim AD and a brand new president who doesn't want to deal with athletics right now. There's no hurry to get a permanent AD in place, thus you're not going to see a coaching change in all likelihood. I'm guessing the new AD is in place by next spring, and Strong gets one year to right the ship. If he doesn't do anything in year 3, the new AD can then hitch his wagon to the coach of his choice. He may do so anyway.

I've thought for awhile that Charlie was in over head, he's got a nasty uphill climb now.
 
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Barrel of monkeys here in Austin:

Texas coach Charlie Strong said social media is the downfall of society. It may be the downfall of the entire UT football program.

Two days after freshman Kris Boyd tweeted at halftime of the TCU game, two more freshmen lashed out at junior Dylan Haines after the safety criticized the younger players’ work ethic.
“They just want to go out and play the game on Saturday.,” Haines said of the freshmen. “They don’t want to put in the work on Sunday and Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
“You can just kind of go through the motions in practice, or you can go out there and practice,” he added. “We’re trying to get where everyone — 100 percent of the people — on the team are just going out there stealing reps in practice. Just get as much done as you can.”
<figure id="attachment_4893" class="wp-caption alignleft" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 10px 30px 10px -67.5px; padding: 0px; line-height: 20.7143px; border: none; border-radius: 0px; transition: border 0.2s ease-in-out; max-width: 350px; height: auto; float: left; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Ubuntu, sans-serif; font-size: 14.5px;"><figcaption class="wp-caption-text" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 12px; margin-top: 8px; padding: 0px;">players.</figcaption></figure>Freshmen defensive end Charles Omenihu saw Haines’ comments and tweeted, “Lol.”
“People get in front of the cameras and just talk they heads off,” Omenihu added in a subsequent tweet that was deleted. “Always remember think before you speak.”
Sophomore receiver Armanti Foreman tweeted, “I walk around campus every day, no body guard, no security! If you have something to say please say it (to) me and stop hiding behind Twitter!”
That prompted freshman receiver DeAndre McNeal to post a long message on Twitter via screenshot.
“We’re supposed to be a team, but instead we’re bashing each other,” McNeal said. “If you don’t want to be here at Texas then kick rocks. We haven’t won ANYTHING to have people calling out others.”
Cornerback Duke Thomas said he spoke with Boyd about retweeting a message at halftime of the TCU game. A Texas A&M fan posted a message implying that Boyd and linebacker Malik Jefferson should transfer to College Station.
Ironically, Texas coach Charlie Strong said he held a team meeting after the Longhorns returned from Fort Worth on Saturday. During that meeting, Boyd stood up and apologized to the team.
“I feel like it’s a lot different now,” said Thomas, a senior. “I don’t know if they completely understand it. I feel like with younger kids now, they’re into social media so much, it’s hard to stop them from doing what they’ve always done.
“We have to teach them they can’t be on social media all time. Everything isn’t for the public to hear.”
 
I didn't think Strong was the best hire Texas could have made (although I raised my opinion of him in the following draft when more Louisville players were drafted than from any other team).

I don't see the logic in getting rid of him however.

They lost at Notre Dame. Not many teams--maybe none--could have beaten N Dame at South Bend before Zaire and the rest of the starters got hurt.

They beat Rice with ease, which they are supposed to do.

They lost to Cal--undefeated and #23 in the country--on a fluke missed extra point. Texas should not lose to Cal at home when Texas is at their normal level, but he did a good coaching job in that game. He got a young team, with a new QB, to fight back and take control of the game.

He lost to Okla State--undefeated, #21 in the country--in a game in which they outplayed Oklahoma State and lost when the idiot punter dropped the ball and gave it to Oklahoma State inside the 10.

He got routed by TCU--undefeated, #2 in the country--in a game at TCU. Not pleasant, but an accurate reflection of the talent level of the two teams.

It is impossible for me to even imagine a player--or players--so dumb they check their phones at halftime so that is a warning sign to me. Is the program being run that loosely? How is it even possible for a player to check his phone at halftime? Where were the position coaches? Where is the focus of the player in question? Where were the team leaders? That is a huge warning sign so there may be problems that aren't visible to the public that indicate he has to go.

But based on his W/L record, the schedule he has had to play, and the 2015 freshman recruiting class I don't see the logic in letting him go or in even discussing it.
 
Wining teams don't have problems with social media

He'll get a third year, but it will then be a matter of when. Much like Muschamp last year.

however, if Chip Kelly comes available, he won't get a third year
 
Losing to teams in the bottom half of the top 25 isn't what this program should be about while Baylor, TCU and TAMU are all in the top half of the top 25. Texas is the flagship school in the State of Texas. I mean, I get what you are saying Tahoe and somewhat agree with you ...but this isn't TCU or Baylor ... this is Texas.

And while I agree with your basic point, they didn't outplay Oklahoma State, they just choked the game away ... partly because of the Strong penalty.

Boxer
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<thead style="box-sizing: border-box; border-bottom-width: thin; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">[TR="class: header"]
[TH="align: left"]Matchup[/TH]
[TH]
i
[/TH]
[TH]
i
[/TH]
[/TR]
</thead><tbody style="box-sizing: border-box;">[TR="class: highlight"]
[TD="align: left"]1st Downs[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indent"]
[TD="align: left"]3rd down efficiency[/TD]
[TD]9-17[/TD]
[TD]4-16[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indent"]
[TD="align: left"]4th down efficiency[/TD]
[TD]0-0[/TD]
[TD]1-2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: highlight"]
[TD="align: left"]Total Yards[/TD]
[TD]395[/TD]
[TD]290[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: highlight"]
[TD="align: left"]Passing[/TD]
[TD]292[/TD]
[TD]119[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indent"]
[TD="align: left"]Comp-Att[/TD]
[TD]24-36[/TD]
[TD]9-17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indent"]
[TD="align: left"]Yards per pass[/TD]
[TD]7.5[/TD]
[TD]5.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indent"]
[TD="align: left"]Interceptions thrown[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: highlight"]
[TD="align: left"]Rushing[/TD]
[TD]103[/TD]
[TD]171[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indent"]
[TD="align: left"]Rushing Attempts[/TD]
[TD]46[/TD]
[TD]42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indent"]
[TD="align: left"]Yards per rush[/TD]
[TD]2.2[/TD]
[TD]4.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: highlight"]
[TD="align: left"]Penalties[/TD]
[TD]7-40[/TD]
[TD]16-128[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: highlight"]
[TD="align: left"]Turnovers[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indent"]
[TD="align: left"]Fumbles lost[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indent"]
[TD="align: left"]Interceptions thrown[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: highlight"]
[TD="align: left"]Possession[/TD]
[TD]34:07[/TD]
[TD]25:5[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
 
From far away, it seems like this Strong guy was put in a pretty tough spot right out of the box. The whole transition was pretty unusual.
 
He was put in a terrible spot. Mack Brown went off and sucked his thumb after losing in the national title game to Bama. He checked out for 3 years until he was fired at the end of '13, and left the cupboard bare, and what remained was a program full of entitled cancers. Then on top of that Strong's boss became an albatross, hamstringing him with budgetary restrictions, firing his lone media confidant' (media relations director John Bianco.), etc.

The issue in Austin now isn't even about winning, it's about being competitive. Strong's 7-11, and 7 of the losses have been blowouts (20+ or more). Additionally, as alarming, is a lack of fundamentals which is painfully absent now.

Like I said above, there's a couple things right now upstream in our administration that are going to buy Strong another year, whether people like it or not. It's ugly right now, though, no doubt.
 
I'm not a Strong fan, I've here previously why. But it seems his biggest issue this year is that they have regressed. Strong's a defensive coach and last years Texas' defense was good, especially against the run. That isn't there this year, and players leaving and playing freshmen might play a part, but it does not excuse being 119th in yards allowed. They are 5 spots ahead of Texas Tech, and they have played Baylor.

They have the Red River game this week, followed by going to Kansas State. Should beat both Kansas and Iowa State, and then, being realistic, I can't see another win. 3-9 is Charlie Weis Notre Dame stuff
 
The easiest thing to criticize him for -- and the most justifiable -- is his failure to play the team's best quarterback for so long!

Can't blame that on the culture, the officiating, the hilarious Wickline situation, or anything or anyone other than the coaches.
 
Put this in another thread but it seems more relevant here.

Texas isn't "just bad." They're younger than probably any team in the country. At one point last week early in the game the safety and both corners were true freshmen.

Last week against TCU 15 true freshmen, 7 redshirt freshmen and 11 true sophomores played. All of them scholarship players. So 33 of your 85 scholarships haven't been on campus for even a full 18 months yet. And not just on special teams.

The starting left tackle and right guard are true freshmen. The starting QB is a redshirt freshman. Middle linebacker, DBs, etc True or redshirt freshmen or true sophomores logging major minutes bc the upperclassmen above them simply aren't good enough.

People nationally (and even locally) still don't fully realize how bad it had gotten at Texas. Mack Brown got lazy his last 4-5 years and when that happens, you build a lazy culture. Now the upperclassmen that should be leaders are so used to losing they don't know any different.

Charlie Strong has been forced to change a culture he didn't create. And he's changing it. It's just happening in a time that has more eyes on it than ever before and platforms for frustrations to be aired out.

Also, Texas hasn't had any help from its schedule either. They played ND week 1 that has NFL talent all over the field and specifically at spots where Texas had young and inexperienced talent. Cal has a first round QB and offense to go with it and Oklahoma State is leading the country in sacks (they will give West Virginia a run for their money for that very reason). Even in spite of the bad calls and special teams gafs, they are two plays away from being 3-2 right now.

TCU should've beat them that way. Heisman trophy candidate QB with a Biletnikoff candidate WR in Doctson. And freshmen in your secondary to stop them.

People just need to relax and give Strong some time. It's not apples to apples but before finally hiring a new coordinator last year, Patterson and TCU went 7-6, 4-8 and 4-8. Oddly enough they were playing a lot of players that had no business seeing that much time then as well.

The best teams let the young pups cut their teeth on special teams and cleanup duty late in games with a few special players logging more time than that at their actual position. This team is literally the exact opposite.

I don't believe Strong is in over his head. He understands the weight of it and will be given another year to get it right. The problem is our fan base has unrealistic expectations and is unwilling to accept that We Are Texas....just not the Texas we've always been.

Think about this: Mack Brown inherited Leonard Davis, Casey Hampton, Shaun Rodgers and Major Applewhite. Oh and some guy named Ricky that was pretty damn good. Strong didn't have anyone of that caliber when he arrived save for maybe the DT Brown that went to the Pats in the first round.

The talent level leaves a lot to be desired and he's working to bring that up. The culture is fractured and unfortunately the lumps being taken are very public. Twitter, Instagram, FB, etc weren't as prevalent when other brand programs were in their ruts. And just generally speaking, people love to hate Texas. And in many cases a lot of our stupid fans give them reason to. I remember when we were winning 10+ games for basically a decade and people were calling for Brown's head every year lol

It's ugly. But it will get better. Just not as fast as many (unrealistically) think it should.
 
It was a terrible hire when it was originally made. Shoot big or don't shoot at all. I love how they act like he built up Louisville when it was Petrino that had them nationally ranked and national contenders year after year. These types of "hard working" "defensive" coaches just don't pan out unless you're Jim Harbaugh or Nick Saban.
 
With Texas it's just as much about being able to press the flesh as it is coaching. Mack was great at one, but terrible at the other. And Strong is seriously lacking in this department. Winning cures all of this, but Strong is way behind the 8 ball in Texas against coaches like Briles and Patterson. And from what I've been hearing he's already got a strained relationship with the Texas highschool coaches. Which is not good, and already showing in his recruiting..
 
Put this in another thread but it seems more relevant here.

Texas isn't "just bad." They're younger than probably any team in the country. At one point last week early in the game the safety and both corners were true freshmen.

Last week against TCU 15 true freshmen, 7 redshirt freshmen and 11 true sophomores played. All of them scholarship players. So 33 of your 85 scholarships haven't been on campus for even a full 18 months yet. And not just on special teams.

The starting left tackle and right guard are true freshmen. The starting QB is a redshirt freshman. Middle linebacker, DBs, etc True or redshirt freshmen or true sophomores logging major minutes bc the upperclassmen above them simply aren't good enough.

People nationally (and even locally) still don't fully realize how bad it had gotten at Texas. Mack Brown got lazy his last 4-5 years and when that happens, you build a lazy culture. Now the upperclassmen that should be leaders are so used to losing they don't know any different.

Charlie Strong has been forced to change a culture he didn't create. And he's changing it. It's just happening in a time that has more eyes on it than ever before and platforms for frustrations to be aired out.

Also, Texas hasn't had any help from its schedule either. They played ND week 1 that has NFL talent all over the field and specifically at spots where Texas had young and inexperienced talent. Cal has a first round QB and offense to go with it and Oklahoma State is leading the country in sacks (they will give West Virginia a run for their money for that very reason). Even in spite of the bad calls and special teams gafs, they are two plays away from being 3-2 right now.

TCU should've beat them that way. Heisman trophy candidate QB with a Biletnikoff candidate WR in Doctson. And freshmen in your secondary to stop them.

People just need to relax and give Strong some time. It's not apples to apples but before finally hiring a new coordinator last year, Patterson and TCU went 7-6, 4-8 and 4-8. Oddly enough they were playing a lot of players that had no business seeing that much time then as well.

The best teams let the young pups cut their teeth on special teams and cleanup duty late in games with a few special players logging more time than that at their actual position. This team is literally the exact opposite.

I don't believe Strong is in over his head. He understands the weight of it and will be given another year to get it right. The problem is our fan base has unrealistic expectations and is unwilling to accept that We Are Texas....just not the Texas we've always been.

Think about this: Mack Brown inherited Leonard Davis, Casey Hampton, Shaun Rodgers and Major Applewhite. Oh and some guy named Ricky that was pretty damn good. Strong didn't have anyone of that caliber when he arrived save for maybe the DT Brown that went to the Pats in the first round.

The talent level leaves a lot to be desired and he's working to bring that up. The culture is fractured and unfortunately the lumps being taken are very public. Twitter, Instagram, FB, etc weren't as prevalent when other brand programs were in their ruts. And just generally speaking, people love to hate Texas. And in many cases a lot of our stupid fans give them reason to. I remember when we were winning 10+ games for basically a decade and people were calling for Brown's head every year lol

It's ugly. But it will get better. Just not as fast as many (unrealistically) think it should.

Rational people are realistic and will exercise patience, they knew the toxic mess that Brown left. We were all just thrilled to see Strong begin to clean up the cancers that were left in the program by that entitled-bleeding clown. No one expected double digit wins or championships in years 1 or 2. But this year especially we did expect to be somewhat competitive and, shudder, would be okay with decent losses. But the losses haven't been decent, 2 of the games have been over midway through the first quarter, And the games haven't been just filled with issues of youth, they've been filled with poor coaching. Hell, at it's most basic level, it now sounds like we were prepared to screw up another coin flip this past weekend in Ft. Worth before the referee did some hand holding and showed us the way.

We all like Charlie as a person, a lot. He's as solid as they come. You want those type people to succeed, badly. Especially when you see what we just experienced with that lying weasel Patterson. But you can't look and listen to Strong at his pressers and not question whether he's in over his head. After TCU last season, and Arkansas, and Notre Dame, and TCU again, it's been the same message, a hollow "we've just got to get better", and each time delivered in the same voice, one that sounds lost and delivered by someone that looks like a deer in headlights. Who knows how much of this is due to the Patterson clusterfuck, or the Bianco firing or any # of things on the periphery.

Charlie told us last November that "a five-loss season will never happen in this program again". Well, it's going to happen, and it may be an 8 or 9 loss season. I hope to god that we don't get to that depths. If so, Perrin and Fenves are really going to have to be steadfast in their support, because Strong won't have much left in that department.

We'll see how things pan out.
 
With Texas it's just as much about being able to press the flesh as it is coaching. Mack was great at one, but terrible at the other. And Strong is seriously lacking in this department. Winning cures all of this, but Strong is way behind the 8 ball in Texas against coaches like Briles and Patterson. And from what I've been hearing he's already got a strained relationship with the Texas highschool coaches. Which is not good, and already showing in his recruiting..
The strained HS coaches relationship narrative is flat out not true.

So not true that the head of the HSCA came out and refuted the Sports Illustrated report that initially made the claim.

Anyone with a computer can report whatever it is that they want these days and unfortunately, it doesn't have to be factual before it gains traction.

Agree with the rest of your post but it literally would not have mattered who came here. What was on campus would've still existed. In his later years Brown paid more attention to recruiting rankings than he did fit for the program.

Strong's job is no doubt to turn it around but to be shocked to the point where some think it's even realistic to call for his job is asinine.

Good luck trying to convince any top flight coach that he'd have time to turn things around if you fire Strong 2 years in. Even better luck trying to convince a kid the same thing won't happen to the next coach.

Strong is the guy...and the right guy...it'll just happen in a different way than we've seen at Texas.
 
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