Semis, Finals and 3rd place Discussion

VirginiaCavs said:
Why would a team lack emotional energy in a final? What‘s the magic number of games that they have to play before „running out?“ why didn‘t it happen against England?

The letdown scenario typically happens when a team pulls off a huge upset and then plays a weak team. Like two years ago Titans upset the Chiefs then „fell flat“ in Jacksonville
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good try, but that's a bad example
 
Look at the comments that came out from the Belgium players after the France game , they said they play anti football

None of the top teams in the world are intimidated by France
 
guaranteeed said:
Modric has covered the most distance of anyone in the tourney, kante will man mark him snd kantes gas tank will be full... if luka doesnt orchastrate the show, especially that little triangles they have been running on the right wing, croatias options really dwindle down low
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i'm not familiar with man-to-man in this sport, but i thought modric didn't do much vs ENG and instead passed the ball to the flanks way more than i remember him doing it before in this tournament. Would Kante limit that because he'd force modric to do that sooner?

It sorta seems like the same thing to me, though it may make CRO even more reliant on crosses and that doesn't seem to be the way to beat FRA
 
GWarner27 said:
i'm not familiar with man-to-man in this sport, but i thought modric didn't do much vs ENG and instead passed the ball to the flanks way more than i remember him doing it before in this tournament. Would Kante limit that because he'd force modric to do that sooner?

It sorta seems like the same thing to me, though it may make CRO even more reliant on crosses and that doesn't seem to be the way to beat FRA
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This is a good Tatical breakdown of the game . This guy is better than 95% of the guys on tv making millions

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ctics-tactical-immaturity-final-a8443526.html
 
Modric was dead, no one can deny that and I guess that's equivalent somewhat to a playmaking point guard not being all there

Not sure France can expose that though
 
GWarner27 said:
i'm not familiar with man-to-man in this sport, but i thought modric didn't do much vs ENG and instead passed the ball to the flanks way more than i remember him doing it before in this tournament. Would Kante limit that because he'd force modric to do that sooner?

It sorta seems like the same thing to me, though it may make CRO even more reliant on crosses and that doesn't seem to be the way to beat FRA
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Everything went through him, he had the most touches in other teams half and the best pass success rate in the game at 89%

Their game plan was to keep it on the right flank, he, rebic, and vrsaljko were running a triangle against ashley young and lingardor allio, if henderson came to help it opened up the middle, so he couldnt and it led to their best chances, rebic and vrsaljko had a conbined 14 crosses including the one that lead to the goal. He wasnt flashy but he controlled things

If kante man marks him, they sre trying to limit his touches or like you say force him to move it quicker, if he has time on the ball his vision will find a play. Kante is one of best dms in world, him or busquets, and he has a great engine and tackling skills. They want croatias attack to go through someone else without the same vision, lead to more turnovers, less chances

Similar to how a team may double lebron before he even has the ball, just to avoid it in his hands
 
how easy is it to replace Kante for the rest of the defense while he follows Modric? I realize there are a lot of people on the field, but that seems like it has to leave them vulnerable somewhere or else everyone would do it
 
braves said:
Look at the comments that came out from the Belgium players after the France game , they said they play anti football

None of the top teams in the world are intimidated by France
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They respected the Belgian attack that carved up Brazil for 2 early goals, and did what they had to win against that team. Also, Belgium can complain all they like but the team that undeniably had the most/best chances to score in the 1h was France, and I say that as someone who rated the Belgian 1h effort as better than France's at the time in the in-game.

That article you posted talked about how the English pace caused Croatia problems...

The other defining feature of England’s attack is their sheer speed, and after Trippier’s early opener meant Croatia pushed forward, England’s attackers were afforded space to break into. The chief threat was Sterling, starting deeper than Kane but always running in behind, and he terrified the immobile centre-back pairing of Dejan Lovren, who resorted to cynical fouls, and Domagoj Vida, who never seemed comfortable on the turn. Sterling sped past Vida dangerously after six minutes, forced both Vida and Sime Vrsaljko into crucial ‘last man’ interventions within the next 10 minutes, threatened to bundle his way towards goal shortly afterwards, and beat Lovren to a ball into the right-back zone despite giving the Liverpool centre-back a ten-yard head-start. He was consistently England’s most dangerous player, with Kane rarely sprinting in behind, and increasingly resorting to hopeful balls for others, seemingly unable to keep pace with attacks.
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France, with one particular individual in mind, obv. also has such pace to utilize. I think they're odds-on to carve these guys up, esp. if they can grab that 1 goal inside the first 25-30 mins to settle themselves down.
 
They play a 3 man midfield, and his position would leave him close to modric anyway

Just more man to man than zone
 
Mbappe seems like more of a speedster with the ball rather than a guy who goes long and gets thrown the hail mary. Are we relying on Pogba to send it to him over the top?

I don't see that, though Mbappe has been the fastest man in this tournament while also holding finishing skills that Sterling doesn't even have in his dreams so he's definitely a concern
 
surprised to read that, but MCFC thrashed everybody. Based on his allergy to nets, some of those had to be in blowouts with all the momentum in garbage time
 
As you know I am on Croatia to win it, and I am not considering to hedge it. Why not? Because I have read and researched into them over the last two weeks in particular to know they will be ready. Brozovic ran for 16 kilometres against England when the average is about 12. Is it just fitness or also a will to keep on going? The euphoria after their wins and the celebrations they have had in the dressing rooms and hotel restaurant will carry them. They did not celebrate as if they were too tired to do so. Mentally and physically what they have gone through will make them even stronger. If France beats them they will do so because they played better but tiredness will not be a factor for this side. We shall see soon enough
 
BetCrimes1984 said:
Which is what made their opponents better than England in his mind, leading to feelings of anxiousness presenting themselves (I did watch that complete discussion before highlighting that short clip). Whatever the reason that led to him feeling inferior, the fact is he did and consequently feelings of anxiousness followed. It's one thing for me to assert what players might be feeling, it's another to have the words come out of the horse's mouth.

Has any Croatian player (outside of egotism) got any right to think their team is better than their opponent here? They got dumped out of the R16 stage of the 2016 Euros, their French opponent obv. didn't (that's the closest concrete event that can be used as a comparison for an objective answer to that question). If they don't admit to reality, then I can only observe delusion is the enemy of all human beings no matter what endeavour they're partaking in.
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Croatia actually lost to the same opponent as France did, and in the same fashion (vs. Portugal 1-0 AET). Two major differences though, France was not only playing at home, they also had the luxury of facing a Portugal team without Cristiano Ronaldo. He was injured in the 1st 10 minutes and was subbed off shortly after. If anything that shows that they are a similar team..
 
guaranteeed said:
Sterling had a bad tournament but he can finish

Had 18 last year in the league, mbappe had 13 in a worse league
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Someday I'll have a proper response to this

I'm in a fan club of England fanboys where I'm on an island, roughly 50+ people trying to crash the party vs me and I'll win

Fuck Sterling. And City are my pride n joy....but England fans have lost so much respect because they're the worst kind of fans. They aren't reasonable. I turn the cold shoulder. Not an enjoyable conversation. You want to discuss, fine. England homers don't want to discuss, they want help.

Fuck Sterling. He'll get more help than he deserves and put up decent numbers. And I'll listen to these English cunts tell me how great he is again.
 
Cappingchubster11 said:
Croatia actually lost to the same opponent as France did, and in the same fashion (vs. Portugal 1-0 AET). Two major differences though, France was not only playing at home, they also had the luxury of facing a Portugal team without Cristiano Ronaldo. He was injured in the 1st 10 minutes and was subbed off shortly after. If anything that shows that they are a similar team..
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Philosophically speaking to your comparison: aligning similar scorelines that are otherwise devoid of any connection to actual game play or in-depth stats, and extrapolating from said scorelines the notion that the two similarly performing teams (whether they won or lost) are therefore on some kind of equal-footing, is to me to walk on some thin ice. Hypothetically, what if team A had 20 shots on goal and team C's keeper had one of the game's of the century in goal to prevent any of them finding the back of the net, while team B in scoring nil never managed a shot on goal because their offense was horribly tepid that particular day against team C: could A & B then still be considered similar teams given the disparity in each of the efforts they presented to team C, despite their replica losing-to-nil scorelines remaining unchanged? Obviously not. It's clearly not enough to be content with looking at a surface scoreline and drawing such conclusions. Greece ended up beating every opponent they faced in the knockout stage of the 2004 Euros by 1-0 scorelines: does that therefore make those 3 (unnamed) losing teams all similar to each other? It's just not a meaningful game to play. Also, as you noted yourself, Croatia didn't play with the pressure of being in on a finals stage @home. That particular circumstance is unique, its pressures can't come close to being replicated in a R16 match on foreign soil. That stage obviously affected the French negatively, given their form in the previous rounds was suddenly absent (they'd beaten the recent WC champions 2-0 in the SF, and put 5 on the board in their QF: but those 5 were against Iceland you say? They had only conceded 4 goals in their previous 4 games). In other words, Croatia had a much easier atmosphere to navigate in trying to beat Portugal. Their 0-0 draw after 90 simply can't be weighted evenly what the French had to deal with in managing exactly the same feat. The fact is the French won 3 knockout games, Croatia wasn't good enough to win any. There's no argument who delivered in that Euro and who didn't: how do 3 wins vs. none make two teams similar? They don't, unless your comparison intends the unstated implication to be drawn that if France had faced Portugal in the R16, they too would've dipped out without a knockout win just like the Croatians did (similar teams = same result against the same opponent, no matter when the fixture took place). I don't buy that implication for an instant, but this isn't something that can be settled objectively, so there's no more energy to be spent on it.

Finally to your other observation, and I've seen this I don't know how many times across all sports down the years (far too many times when I've been on the team which should've benefited from the absence), when a big match sees one team lose a crucial piece of their line-up (either via a late withdrawal right before the match starts, or to an injury early on into the event), the surprise/unexpected nature of that loss can actually screw more with their opponent('s mindset) than it does with the team who loses that piece. The opponents seem to take on the perception that without having to deal with player X they suddenly now can't lose/seem to take it for granted the W is in the bag and consequentially lose intensity as a result, and in so doing set the stage for their own demise. Since I struggle for any memories of watching those Euros beyond the Wales/Belgium QF, to learn that CR7 went off relatively early in that final actually goes a long way to providing a likely explanation to me for the nature of that French loss.
 
Lol, France playing at home in 2016 and getting to play against Portugal without Ronaldo was a disadvantage for them ?



France blew it in 2016
 
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KJ said:
Someday I'll have a proper response to this

I'm in a fan club of England fanboys where I'm on an island, roughly 50+ people trying to crash the party vs me and I'll win

Fuck Sterling. And City are my pride n joy....but England fans have lost so much respect because they're the worst kind of fans. They aren't reasonable. I turn the cold shoulder. Not an enjoyable conversation. You want to discuss, fine. England homers don't want to discuss, they want help.

Fuck Sterling. He'll get more help than he deserves and put up decent numbers. And I'll listen to these English cunts tell me how great he is again.
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I dont get it

Who are you talking about? City fans?

What kind of respect? What kind of party is this and who wins?

Tons of english fans wanted rashford over him all tourney, papers were calling for it

you know im not his biggest fan, i thought they would have gotten rid of him last summer, but he can finish, had a great season
 
He's a walking napkin. Gust if wind and w we ya. He finishes because he's put in such positions by his peers. He's not that good.


He's a pace player and that's appreciated...but without talent around him he's nothing but a speedy winger that runs like a chick. Get me going on this wanker
 
KJ said:
He's a walking napkin. Gust if wind and w we ya. He finishes because he's put in such positions by his peers. He's not that good.


He's a pace player and that's appreciated...but without talent around him he's nothing but a speedy winger that runs like a chick. Get me going on this wanker
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Haha

So you dont think it takes mahrez long to make the spot his own?
 
Guardian saying today he wwnts to involve your guy phil in euro squad but southgate says he needs to play first team for someone before he can get involved in senior team, id love it if hes legit, him behind kane is exactly what we need
 
guaranteeed said:
Who are the english wankers who party and you want to win?

City supporters in zona?
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I'm in a local club here, most are actually British so I leave em alone, they're emotional

In fact one guy sent some facebook message about whether I think Sterling is great now yesterday, I haven't replied. They enjoy my presence for matches but I'm clearly out of my element in Britishness....and I recognize it and leave it me. Many grew up as fans and are actually from Manchester. The pub owner (two pubs) goes there all the time, think he hit 17 matches this season including CL

He and I have some of the same friends, but clearly thinks I'm not passionate enough to be on his level because I clown Sterling for one. But he's no choice but to accept me lol
 
It's why I don't put much weight in the rumours of going after Hazard, maybe Pep trying to drive up the price? Dunno
 
Ya i can see that, hazard doesnt make much sense, but forcing madrid to pay 150 for him does

Pep still needs a cm this year, cb would help too, surprised its not being talked about but toby makes so much sense for them

I think phil sees time in the championship, maybe at celtic or rangers? Pep just no real history of playing youngsters, wouldnt even let maffeo be backup rb, spent 30m on Danilo
 
Ya he will be important, covered so well for a shaky back 4 at times, and gundogan coming back was nice, but cant rely on his health snd delph shouldnt be a 3rd option, especially in europe
 
guaranteeed said:
Ya he will be important, covered so well for a shaky back 4 at times, and gundogan coming back was nice, but cant rely on his health snd delph shouldnt be a 3rd option, especially in europe
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There's a bit of irony in here in that Fernandinho discipline issues led to Ilkay getting some valuable time/experience in that position
 
Have a feeling we land Kovacic, not so crazy there...don't really know what he adds?

Tbh I put not much emotion/effort into rumors, especially in a WC year whilst Wimbledon and the Open are on the forefront

I sleep to meditation and hypnosis this time of year...it's 110 and humid
 
Something occurred to me, maybe Belgium and England play to win, not like its a meaningless exhibition. If it is, the game is much more a toss up then I considered and dare I say 1-0 type, not wide open like NBA all star game?
 
Johnnyonthespot said:
Something occurred to me, maybe Belgium and England play to win, not like its a meaningless exhibition. If it is, the game is much more a toss up then I considered and dare I say 1-0 type, not wide open like NBA all star game?
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The average amount of goals in the third place games is just under 4

Average world cup game is like 2.6
 
braves said:
Lol, France playing at home in 2016 and getting to play against Portugal without Ronaldo was a disadvantage for them ?



France blew it in 2016
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The NBA delivers up time & time & time again teams winning their first games without their star player (on the road as well as at home, it's not confined to the latter venue w/its natural advantages). Why? How are a team's odds of winning disadvantaged by an opponent missing their star player in that situation? It's counter-intuitive no doubt, but that rate at which teams do win without their star defies logic yet it happens. The NBA is hardly the only sport where this applies. I've seen it occur many times in rugby in-game when an important player is injured early. It seemingly galvanizes the team that suffers the loss, and lulls the team which supposedly benefits from not having to face said player into taking things for granted from that point. I explained the psychology of how I see it working in that post above. If someone has a different take on how that phenomena plays out, I'm all ears.

Also, what I posted never said France didn't blow it. And I never stated a belief that's the only (potential) reason they might have lost that final. They clearly have no excuses not to have won that game. I'd be surprised if the pressure of the situation didn't get to them. Also, coming off a peak performance headed into a pressure filled one is one of my favourite ones to target fading a team: Fra won their SF by multiple goals while keeping a clean sheet against the WC winners (who put up 7 goals up the last time they'd played a big tourney SF). That was a peak performance if ever there was one. I see numerous reasons which could explain why they delivered a flat performance in that final; the dynamic of the other team losing their star player early but one of many potential contributors.
 
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I agree with vanzack's concern that England's almost total inability to score from outside of set-pieces married with the fact Harry Kane has clearly not looked right compromises the belief that they're anything like a given to score here. Of course that's not to say Belgium can overrun those 'overachievers' by 3+ goals to nil, but I would say to those loving the Over (thus presumably thinking about a bigger than usual bet) to ask themselves the following question...

would you bet the same amount if you knew beforehand England goes scoreless in this game?

Also, this is been statistically an unusual WC (we still haven't had a knockout 0-0 after 90 result, and odds as I see them are we won't for the first time in the modern era), so who'd be truly surprised to see the 3rd/4th go Under & the Final go Over? What bettor on this planet is parlaying those two results? *anyone hear any pins dropping?* Books wipe the floor with everyone on the totals front if that combo finishes off this WC.
 
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