Selection Sunday Discussion and In-Game

[2daBank]

Great post. Very insightful on ACC overall. I just think P5 undefeated is P5 undefeated. Liberty not being P5 is the difference. Maybe we should be talking P2 down the road and I’m just too much a traditionalist.

While I agree Bama is the better team and said that up front, a lot of the assessment is subjective. FSU beat two SEC teams, including LSU, which is regarded as a top win for the SEC teams. Trash Miami and their coach beat A&M. That at least calls into question the conference comparison.

Can we imagine the NFL using the “eye test”? I feel like this exposes that it’s not really a true playoff. Hope you’re right about this not being a big deal in the long run.

Appreciate all the ACC background here. All helpful for capping bowls!

The nfl let’s so many damn teams in the playoff there no need for the eye test! If you cant pull off the 7th best record in a 15 team league dont think there a case to be made! Most my life the 6th seed in the nfl was hardly deserving a playoff spot and now we get 7!! Lol.

I understand where you coming from, I feel bad for the fsu kids, i felt bad saying it before the games that if bama beat Uga I thought fsu should be out. It was just a unusual year where the winner of every power 5 was deserving of making the playoff. I’ve always thought the playoff should have been all 5 power 5 champs then a wild card. I’ve never liked the fact we let teams in the playoff who couldn’t even win their damn comf! And I don’t care if one conf champ had a lessor record, imo you win your conf you should be allowed to play to see if you in fact the best team in the country, you don’t win your conf imo you clearly not one the best teams in the country!

Never understood why they made it so much more difficult than it needed to be?!?? I thought there were many years the big 12 champ got hosed while they let a team like Ohio st or bama in who couldn’t even win their half their own conf!! The pac-12 always got punished for beating each other! It was always a stupid system and it kinda funny it took till the last year where we had a situation where the winner of all 5 felt “deserving”. In my view the winner of each power 5 shoulda been “deserving” every year. Noles obviously deserved to be in, the problem is I feel like the 4 teams we have are all just as deserving and the fact is we know without their qb fsu just wouidnt provide the same kind of buzz as the 2 games we have will and end the day it all about the money. Novell can cry all he wants but every time he opens his mouth he just insulting the other 4 teams who also won their conferences and played stronger SOS than his team. When you made a 4 team playoff with 5 power conf it was inevitable a deserving team was gonna be left out. I don’t find this nearly as egregious the years they left out a power 5 champ while putting in teams that didn’t even play for their conf championship!

Honestly I hate the direction the sport headed cause now w these super conf we won’t even know who the best team in a conf is cause there be so many teams they won’t all play each other! The conf champ w be meaningless anyways since all the teams playing this past weekend will be in going forward. The playoff will be fun but they are totally minimizing the regular season which I’ve always felt what made college football special and that being taken away. In few years we will be arguing about how the 13th team got cheated and next thing ya know it be a 16 team playoff! Lol

 

[twinkie13]

Wait. Liberty is playing in a New Year's 6 game? Dear lord.

SMU would beat them by double digits. Wouldn't be close.

I know. I thought SMU was would have gotten that game.

 

[pressitup]

 

[2daBank]

I know. I thought SMU was would have gotten that game.

I think smu d coulda gave ducks some problems. Only problems they have vs liberty is the mascot wearing out from all the push-ups!

 

[Turfcat]

To me, the elimination of fsu has already rendered the regular season meaningless. Completely agree on all points by 2dabank on ACC, four top quality teams, etc. it was purely money match up decision. The eye test and assumptions ruled the day. You know, I got a wife of 32 years. She has been faithful, rock solid. Has done everything I asked her to do. Do I keep her or take the hot chick that looks better down the street cause she fits the eye test and is clearly fit for well, the betterment of my current situation . You decide.

 

[Br@ssknux]

As another huge fan the sport I just don’t see it the same way as you. Actually quite the opposite. Funny enough I agree wit your overall sentiment in a way but for a completely different reason! Lol (we will get to that). I myself did watch a great deal of ACC games as I always do as for some reason I’ve always had somewhat a knack for capping this conf so I tend to be about as well versed in the Acc as most anyone, not saying i know it better than everyone but I think most guys I talk with around here would agree im pretty well locked in on the ACC!

The fact I did watch a large majority of the ACC makes it very easy for me to say what I been saying all week, while I feel for the noles kids and while yes we can say they earned a spot by what they accomplished this year I think it also more than fair to say without their Qb they are clearly not one the best 4 teams and it not as if they were replaced by any undeserving teams in the slightest! Not only am I a avid acc watcher I’m also generally a defender of this conf as I feel many years the acc gets unfairly shit on when the overall quality of the teams is usually better than the majorities perception of them imo. That said it was pretty debatable this year. There were a handful of very very bad teams in the conf this year, there were a few teams who did drastically improve as the season went, but there was not much quality depth as there typically is. The fact Louisville ended up in the acc championship game was a massive black eye as I been screaming most the year they were not deserving of a top 20 ranking. The fact a pretty awful ncst team managed to put together a 9-3 record (give or take can’t remember off the top my head) was more evidence how poor this conf was as a whole. Ville barely beat several very bad teams, they lost to a abysmal pitt team. Unc did what all mac brown teams have done since he got to unc and shrunk when it mattered most. Pitt, wake, cuse, played disgusting football. Uva managed to pull themselves slightly above that as the year went on, BC amd Gtech had some talent but were very lacking in areas. Vtech was another team who started out awful but after the qb change started to show some signs but were incredibly inconsistent. Miami unfortunately has a god awful coach who managed to be pretty terrible despite the fact they had a qb I believe will one day get a shot to play in the nfl, hopefully he finds a team in the transfer portal who can highlight his vast arm talent, Point being this conf was not good and if you put them up against the big12 and sec im sorry there is just no comparison! Even clemson was woefully down but if they could have simply finished drives and not thrown games away They easily shoulda ended up in this championship game.

Now that we have took a quick dive into what the AcC was let’s look at what fsu did in this conf when they had Travis playing qb!! I bet and won a lot on fsu vs clemson and I have no problem admitting I was very lucky to win as the noles had no business beating clemson that day! There is no argument who the better team was and it was not fsu, a mediocre clemson passing game moved the ball up and down the field on the noles, controlled the majority of the game, amd had them dead to rights until Dabo went all Dabo and played not to lose opposed to playing to win, a missed chip shot fg later and noles got a chance they didn’t earn or deserve while we talking bout “deserving” to tie then win that game!

Next up noles caught another massive break as they got to face Duke after the heart and soul of their team basically destroyed his leg, somehow he played but he or his team were never the same after he suffered that injury. So Noles get a Duke team who was a shell of themselves and they were outplayed and losing that game for 3 qrtts! Yes fsu handled business at the end and pulled away from a team who had nothing left in the 4th qrtr but make no mistake once again noles were not the better team despite playing a Duke team who was at best 60% of what they were before the Leonard Injury!!

Did I mention the week before clemson they were very lucky to beat Boston college? They had to get a very favorable call to salt the end that game away, that was a terrible spot and those things happen to pretty much every team so I didn’t knock them for that game at the time and I won’t to much here but yet another vssy unimpressive effort to say the least against a mediocre team!

It doesn’t end there! After pretty much clobbering a couple the dregs in wake forest (who might have had the worst qb i saw all year on a power 5 team), then smashing a pathetic pitt team (who happened to beat ville!), they then got to face their rival Canes who could have been a good team but unfortunately hired one the worst coaches in football!! You would think surely noles make quick work here right? Even more so cause Miami’s qb i thought very highly of went down in that game with a injury. Surely noles demolish this team without their stud qb?? Nope, once again they find themselves in a dog fight! A game with a even yardage total they hung on to win by one score as -14.5 favs, a number that was made with the assumption they wkukda been facing Tyler van dyke not some backup!!

That was the Noles incredible ACC season! Of course after the canes game Travis unfortunately got hurt blowing out some little sisters of the poor. Lucky for them they had 2 chances against a bad gators team who allowed a bunch of points all year and then the ACC chmiiishjo game against the fraudulent ville team to show us they did still “deserve” to be in the playoff. Unfortunately they did not show us anything of the sort, they once again were trailing a mediocre team heading into the 4th qrtr of the gators game, I guess maybe you could argue this the same team w Travis since this was nothing new!! Then we all had the misfortune of watching them play the fraudulent cardinals w a qb who was 8 for 21 for a whipping 50 yards despite the fact they have 2 nfl wrs!! I heard lots of tv bobble heads praise their defense for shutting down a crappy ville qb. What I saw was ville mostly beating tbemsekvrs while being unable to stop the wild cat.,

Im sorry and I do feel for the Noles but the fact Tecas and bama both had one loss while playing tougher teams practically every week I dunno why we think noles were more deserving? Bama lost to texas, noles did not play one team on their schedule close to texas. Then bama beat the best team in the country while fsu was beating a team that being called top 20 was totally fraudulent. Texas lost to the Sooners, the Sooners easily couod have ran the table playing the schedule noles did. Texas beat bama who once again was far and away better than any team the noles skated by. This just so happened to be a year where we had 5 teams who probably deserved to be in but in no way did leaving fsu out cheapen the season imo: And I havnt even discussed the fact they lost their qb and were obviously not the same team without him, ignoring that woyod be foolish!! Im actually a bit a noles fan but im
Sorry the fact they were undefeated didn’t make them more deserving of bama or texas imo. It certainly doesn’t cheapen or make the season meaningless, if anything it shows how important the season is, cause if we look at the totality then it clear they were no more deserving than the teams who got in!! If being undefeated trumps all then why are we not banging the drum for liberty? They went undefeated and prob did so looking more impressive than the noles did!

No , this final 4 in no way cheapened the season, it actually showed us how important the season is as if you play and beat more good teams you can still get in if you lose to another top team!! Nothing wrong with how this played out. I don’t care how much Norvell bitches and cries, and quite honestly every time I hear him talk im more and more glad he didn’t get in, except for the fact I’d now kinda love to see him get destroyed by the other deserving teams who would all be 2+ td favs against his squad (I feel for the kids, that coach a prick and if I hear him cry one more time over something this trivial as other ppl dealing with real life problems like family members w cancer the last thing I want to hear this clown cry and act like life isn’t fair, I got news for him life ain’t far but it way better to him making way more money than he should to coach a game! So just stop it with the whoa is me soap box!).


What makes me sad for the sport isn’t the fact we had 5 deserving teams and the worst one got left out. What makes me sad is all the super conferences forming and the fact the 12 team playoff will effectively kill the regular season we both hold dear even if we disagree on this. Im sure we can agree going forward the regular season will be incredibly cheapened as the last 2 weeks and conf championship games will mean nothing as all the teams will be in the 12 team playoff anyways!

Bank, I love you and greatly appreciate the massive contributions you make here, but I've got to respond because this is similar to a lot of things I've heard lately that i don't agree with. I'm not gonna spend the time to address all your points here, but everything you say here is opinion based on what YOU think would happen. And I'm not picking on you because tons of other people feel the same way you do. If we prove anything week after week here, it's that WE DONT KNOW SHIT. What we are sure will happen does not happen every fucking week. You spend 50 paragraphs making proclamations about we think is true. Oklahoma would do this, Texas would do that, this team is way better than that team, etc etc etc. We don't fucking know. If it was up to us to prognosticate the teams into the playoff before the Championship games, we would have put Oregon and Georgia in because it' was OBVIOUS that Oregon is better than Washington. Alabama should have lost to the team that lost by 100 at home to New Mexico State the week prior, there's no way they can beat mighty Georgia who we KNOW is better than everybody else because we say so.

So I say save the effort at explaining what would happen because we don't know. We should just recognize what the ultimate decision was. The Committee had the following decision: Exclude a 13-0 ACC Champ or completely exclude the SEC. There was no fucking way on God's Green Earth this fucking committee would ever exclude the SEC in that scenario. ESPN would never have that. The fact that Travis got hurt gave them the window dressing to justify it. To illustrate, consider what you think the committee would have done if Georgia won. Would they have taken Texas over FSU? I think probably not since they would have an SEC team. By the way...why isn't Jordan Travis the runaway Heisman winner? He's obviously the most important man in college football, since he by himself is the difference between a team being among the top 4 in the country and a complete plie of dogshit.

 

[2daBank]

Bank, I love you and greatly appreciate the massive contributions you make here, but I've got to respond because this is similar to a lot of things I've heard lately that i don't agree with. I'm not gonna spend the time to address all your points here, but everything you say here is opinion based on what YOU think would happen. And I'm not picking on you because tons of other people feel the same way you do. If we prove anything week after week here, it's that WE DONT KNOW SHIT. What we are sure will happen does not happen every fucking week. You spend 50 paragraphs making proclamations about we think is true. Oklahoma would do this, Texas would do that, this team is way better than that team, etc etc etc. We don't fucking know. If it was up to us to prognosticate the teams into the playoff before the Championship games, we would have put Oregon and Georgia in because it' was OBVIOUS that Oregon is better than Washington. Alabama should have lost to the team that lost by 100 at home to New Mexico State the week prior, there's no way they can beat mighty Georgia who we KNOW is better than everybody else because we say so.

So I say save the effort at explaining what would happen because we don't know. We should just recognize what the ultimate decision was. The Committee had the following decision: Exclude a 13-0 ACC Champ or completely exclude the SEC. There was no fucking way on God's Green Earth this fucking committee would ever exclude the SEC in that scenario. ESPN would never have that. The fact that Travis got hurt gave them the window dressing to justify it. To illustrate, consider what you think the committee would have done if Georgia won. Would they have taken Texas over FSU? I think probably not since they would have an SEC team. By the way...why isn't Jordan Travis the runaway Heisman winner? He's obviously the most important man in college football, since he by himself is the difference between a team being among the top 4 in the country and a complete plie of dogshit.

You good bro, you my guy and Im down w disagreement!!

Im certainly not trying to make the argument fsu should be out cause what I think would happen, I damn sure didn’t think tcu would beat down Michigan last year!! I don’t even want to rip fsu cause honestly I’ve always liked the noles since way back in the Bowden days! I love lot of players on this team. I feel bad for them it has just kinda turned into me pushing back on them in a way I really didn’t even want cause I equally disagree w your side but it not for any of the on the field reasons as I’m in total agreement w your point we don’t know and it’s always pissed me off that has been the way they have made every 4 team playoff, this is far from the 1st time a team has been screwed, this just the 1st time it was a undefeated team and for me there isn’t any difference.

Truthfully there really only one argument and it really simple in my mind (we have discussed this other places but not sure which threads), they fucked up this system the minute they made a 4 team playoff when there 5 power conferences!! I’ve always been of the belief it doesn’t even matter what the records are, the only true way to make the games matter and decide a real champ would be EVERY CONF CHAMP SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN EVERY PLAYOFF! The fact some lost a game or 2 doesn’t make them less deserving cause it very well could be they played in a way tougher conf than the one Fsu just went undefeated in! Obviously 5 teams you would either have to be creative or the simple thing woulda been one at large or better yet 8 teams with all the power 5 champs, best group of 5 and 2 at large cause that woulda just been cleaner. My main point is they have been leaving out pac-12 and big-12 champs for years cause they deemed some money making popular school like ohio st, bama, Uga, better even tho they either lost or didn’t even make it to their own conf championship game!! What happened to fsu has been happening for this entire decade but now we outraged cause fsu didn’t lose a game? I don’t see how that matters? To crown a true champ you take the best team who WON each conference and you let them play against the other regions but that has never been the case, instead a bunch of assholes get in a room and deem who they think should get to play!!! That been the system since day one! This year we have a amazing 4 teams who all deserve to be in just as much as fsu does but we wanna change what been happening the whole time cause FSU didht lose a gane? Do I think them barely beating a bunch of very bad teams, clemson handing them a game clemson was clearly the better team, or any the other times they were trailing into the 4th but they won that somehow means they are more deserving? I say no, they are equally as deserving and yes it sucks they happened to have this season in a year there are 5 very deserving teams who all won their conf!! If they left fsu out for Uga or Ohio st like they have left out many other conf champs then I’d be in your camp, but they didn’t do that this year, this year they happened to finally agree that every conf champion belonged (bout time honestly) so the stupidity of 4 spots for 5 deserving teams is just more obvious this year but the fact is at least this year it’s 4 conf champs that all deserve to be in the playoff, they can’t add a 5th spot. We have had so many years they put in teams that didn’t make their own comf champ and left out a conf champ that was just as deserving as noles this year.

 

[M.W.]

I know. I thought SMU was would have gotten that game.

I checked the Sagarin ratings, and BC rates as the worst team in the ACC. SMU's reward for winning the 6th-best conference is playing the worst team in the 5th-best (possibly 4th-best) conference.

 

[CPA-hole]

I checked the Sagarin ratings, and BC rates as the worst team in the ACC. SMU's reward for winning the 6th-best conference is playing the worst team in the 5th-best (possibly 4th-best) conference.

I just wonder if we had the 12 team playoff this year, if they would've put Liberty over SMU.

 

[M.W.]

Bank, I love you and greatly appreciate the massive contributions you make here, but I've got to respond because this is similar to a lot of things I've heard lately that i don't agree with. I'm not gonna spend the time to address all your points here, but everything you say here is opinion based on what YOU think would happen. And I'm not picking on you because tons of other people feel the same way you do. If we prove anything week after week here, it's that WE DONT KNOW SHIT. What we are sure will happen does not happen every fucking week. You spend 50 paragraphs making proclamations about we think is true. Oklahoma would do this, Texas would do that, this team is way better than that team, etc etc etc. We don't fucking know. If it was up to us to prognosticate the teams into the playoff before the Championship games, we would have put Oregon and Georgia in because it' was OBVIOUS that Oregon is better than Washington. Alabama should have lost to the team that lost by 100 at home to New Mexico State the week prior, there's no way they can beat mighty Georgia who we KNOW is better than everybody else because we say so.

So I say save the effort at explaining what would happen because we don't know. We should just recognize what the ultimate decision was. The Committee had the following decision: Exclude a 13-0 ACC Champ or completely exclude the SEC. There was no fucking way on God's Green Earth this fucking committee would ever exclude the SEC in that scenario. ESPN would never have that. The fact that Travis got hurt gave them the window dressing to justify it. To illustrate, consider what you think the committee would have done if Georgia won. Would they have taken Texas over FSU? I think probably not since they would have an SEC team. By the way...why isn't Jordan Travis the runaway Heisman winner? He's obviously the most important man in college football, since he by himself is the difference between a team being among the top 4 in the country and a complete plie of dogshit.

I loved his quote about wishing he'd broken his leg earlier in the season, so everyone could see the team was much more than the quarterback.

 

[gps_3]

Someone reminded me that in 1993 (I know, ancient history), a 1 loss FSU was picked to play in the Orange Bowl against undefeated Nebraska instead of undefeated WVU, and a 1 loss Notre Dame that owned a H2H victory over FSU in mid November. Backup QB for that team was Danny Kanell. I haven't heard him mention their undeserving bid yet

 

[2daBank]

I loved his quote about wishing he'd broken his leg earlier in the season, so everyone could see the team was much more than the quarterback.

My whole point isn’t even bout Travis. All the teams who in this year are just as deserving as fsu. The teams who won their conf and got passed over for teams who didn’t are the ones who truly got screwed in this stupid system. It not like this the 1st year the committee just picks who they think is best, they been doing that every year. Far as I can remember this might be the 1st year we at least get 4 conf champs! In my mind every conf champ is deserving regardless of whether they lost a game or 3.

 

[M.W.]

Someone reminded me that in 1993 (I know, ancient history), a 1 loss FSU was picked to play in the Orange Bowl against undefeated Nebraska instead of undefeated WVU, and a 1 loss Notre Dame that owned a H2H victory over FSU in mid November. Backup QB for that team was Danny Kanell. I haven't heard him mention their undeserving bid yet

In 1978, when the Alabama/USC situation matched the Alabama/Texas situation this year, I came down on the side of Alabama.

 

[gps_3]

Bank, I love you and greatly appreciate the massive contributions you make here, but I've got to respond because this is similar to a lot of things I've heard lately that i don't agree with. I'm not gonna spend the time to address all your points here, but everything you say here is opinion based on what YOU think would happen. And I'm not picking on you because tons of other people feel the same way you do. If we prove anything week after week here, it's that WE DONT KNOW SHIT. What we are sure will happen does not happen every fucking week. You spend 50 paragraphs making proclamations about we think is true. Oklahoma would do this, Texas would do that, this team is way better than that team, etc etc etc. We don't fucking know. If it was up to us to prognosticate the teams into the playoff before the Championship games, we would have put Oregon and Georgia in because it' was OBVIOUS that Oregon is better than Washington. Alabama should have lost to the team that lost by 100 at home to New Mexico State the week prior, there's no way they can beat mighty Georgia who we KNOW is better than everybody else because we say so.

So I say save the effort at explaining what would happen because we don't know. We should just recognize what the ultimate decision was. The Committee had the following decision: Exclude a 13-0 ACC Champ or completely exclude the SEC. There was no fucking way on God's Green Earth this fucking committee would ever exclude the SEC in that scenario. ESPN would never have that. The fact that Travis got hurt gave them the window dressing to justify it. To illustrate, consider what you think the committee would have done if Georgia won. Would they have taken Texas over FSU? I think probably not since they would have an SEC team. By the way...why isn't Jordan Travis the runaway Heisman winner? He's obviously the most important man in college football, since he by himself is the difference between a team being among the top 4 in the country and a complete plie of dogshit.

Your last paragraph is exactly right. This committee backed themselves in a corner because they were projecting with each rankings, inflating Oregon and devaluing Alabama and Texas. They thought Oregon and UGA would roll, making their decision easy. There was no way the SEC Champ was getting left out, whether because of TV/money or because the conference has won 6 of 9 or whatever. When it happened that Alabama won, they were in. And because Texas had that H2H, they were rightfully ahead of Bama. The committee got lucky they had the injury to fall back on, because I'm not sure the decision would have been different with a healthy Travis

 

[2daBank]

Someone reminded me that in 1993 (I know, ancient history), a 1 loss FSU was picked to play in the Orange Bowl against undefeated Nebraska instead of undefeated WVU, and a 1 loss Notre Dame that owned a H2H victory over FSU in mid November. Backup QB for that team was Danny Kanell. I haven't heard him mention their undeserving bid yet

I feel like everyone on the fsu side has conveniently lost their memories. We have never decided the champ any way other than either computers or ppl determining who they think is best! I’m thrilled we at least got 4 deserving conf champions for a change. I’m sorry they deemed Fsu the lessor of the 5 but I happen to agree with that and it not nearly as big a screw Job as many other conf champs got. The best way I can sum it up is if they had put Uga in ahead of fsu then I’d be banging noles drum harder than anyone cause that what they usually do, leave out a conf champ for some team they decide is better.,,

 

[M.W.]

I feel like everyone on the fsu side has conveniently lost their memories. We have never decided the champ any way other than either computers or ppl determining who they think is best! I’m thrilled we at least got 4 deserving conf champions for a change. I’m sorry they deemed Fsu the lessor of the 5 but I happen to agree with that and it not nearly as big a screw Job as many other conf champs got. The best way I can sum it up is if they had put Uga in ahead of fsu then I’d be banging noles drum harder than anyone cause that what they usually do, leave out a conf champ for some team they decide is better.,,

The problem this year is, that the SEC hasn't really shown us anything. Its best non-conference wins, in order:

Mizzou over K State
UK over UL
Miss over Tulane
Miss St over Ariz
Mizzou over Memphis
Auburn over Cal

That's awfully weak.

 

[2daBank]

The problem this year is, that the SEC hasn't really shown us anything. Its best non-conference wins, in order:

Mizzou over K State
UK over UL
Miss over Tulane
Miss St over Ariz
Mizzou over Memphis
Auburn over Cal

That's awfully weak.

I agree the sec is probably weaker than other years but I’d still be pretty confident betting most of the middle vs most the acc other than clemson and fsu. But my whole thing is I don’t agree with the way we been trained to argue the conf strength in 1st place. Every conf champ belongs in the playoff if we really wanted the games to be meaningful. It’s like everyone acting like fsu not getting in has taken the meaning from the games. The minute they started taking 2 teams from one conf while leaving out other conf champs they did that.

 

[gps_3]

In 1978, when the Alabama/USC situation matched the Alabama/Texas situation this year, I came down on the side of Alabama.

Yes, it has happened repeatedly in the history of the sport. It's why I roll my eyes at everyone who calls it unprecedented

 

[2daBank]

I guess that why I’m not nearly as bothered by this year. Yes noles deserve to be in cause they won their conf, but the fact is we at least have 4 conf champs in this year!! Like I said If they left noles out for Uga or Ohio st it woulda pissed me off, they been doing that to pac-12 and big-12 champs the entire era of the 4 team playoffs and nobody seemed to Mind!! Now we get 4 champs and Ppl pissed bout the 1 who didn’t make it!! That just odd to me.

 

[gps_3]

The problem this year is, that the SEC hasn't really shown us anything. Its best non-conference wins, in order:

Mizzou over K State
UK over UL
Miss over Tulane
Miss St over Ariz
Mizzou over Memphis
Auburn over Cal

That's awfully weak.

Definitely not a banner year. Though I'd put Miss St winning over Arizona at the top. If the Pac 12 hadn't changed the way they select the two teams to play in it's championship, it would've been Arizona vs Washington for the Pac 12 title

 

[M.W.]

Definitely not a banner year. Though I'd put Miss St winning over Arizona at the top. If the Pac 12 hadn't changed the way they select the two teams to play in it's championship, it would've been Arizona vs Washington for the Pac 12 title

On second thought, I agree. And on second thought, GT might be better than a couple of those teams.

 

[gps_3]

The problem this year is, that the SEC hasn't really shown us anything. Its best non-conference wins, in order:

Mizzou over K State
UK over UL
Miss over Tulane
Miss St over Ariz
Mizzou over Memphis
Auburn over Cal

That's awfully weak.

I went back and looked at the OOC for the P5, and was reminded how few good games we had overall. I remember thinking early in the season there just weren't that many games between the upper level teams, but kind of forgot over the last few months. Hopefully it gets better moving forward

 

[Br@ssknux]

Your last paragraph is exactly right. This committee backed themselves in a corner because they were projecting with each rankings, inflating Oregon and devaluing Alabama and Texas. They thought Oregon and UGA would roll, making their decision easy. There was no way the SEC Champ was getting left out, whether because of TV/money or because the conference has won 6 of 9 or whatever. When it happened that Alabama won, they were in. And because Texas had that H2H, they were rightfully ahead of Bama. The committee got lucky they had the injury to fall back on, because I'm not sure the decision would have been different with a healthy Travis

Totally agree with this. I stopped short of saying they would have done that to FSU with or without Travis, but ultimately the SEC was not getting shut out. It would have been really tough to justify, but the SEC would have gotten in. My guess is it would have been over Texas in that scenario and they would have used the same twisted logic as that 1993 scenario you referred to: FSU and ND had the same record and ND had the head to head. But FSU's loss to ND was "better" than ND's loss to BC. They would have said the same thing to Texas and then added some other subjective BS like, "Oh...Milroe is so much better now, etc, etc".

I seriously think that if Georgia won, FSU would probably be in.

 

[twinkie13]

I checked the Sagarin ratings, and BC rates as the worst team in the ACC. SMU's reward for winning the 6th-best conference is playing the worst team in the 5th-best (possibly 4th-best) conference.

It’s complete bullshit.

 

[M.W.]

It’s complete bullshit.

Funny how all of a sudden an undefeated record matters.

 

[Br@ssknux]

I guess that why I’m not nearly as bothered by this year. Yes noles deserve to be in cause they won their conf, but the fact is we at least have 4 conf champs in this year!! Like I said If they left noles out for Uga or Ohio st it woulda pissed me off, they been doing that to pac-12 and big-12 champs the entire era of the 4 team playoffs and nobody seemed to Mind!! Now we get 4 champs and Ppl pissed bout the 1 who didn’t make it!! That just odd to me.

It's because Undefeated is and will always be better than 1 loss and results on the field matter more than what a bunch of idiots in a room think they know. Why stop at 1 loss? If Alabama lost to Auburn the week before and had 2 losses would you then say Bama isn't better than FSU? How many losses would Alabama have to have before you would agree that they weren't "better"? 5? It's like last year when Saban was trying to justify Bama getting in over TCU and brought up the idiotic and irrelevant argument that they'd be favored over TCU on a nuetral. Well, no shit Sherlock, and you'd be favored over them if you were 7 and fucking 5. Would you deserve it then?

If you're going to nitpick FSU, why wouldn't you do the same for Michigan? The Big Ten was complete trash and Michigan played two teams with a pulse all year. At least FSU played LSU and Florida away from home in the Non-con. Who did Michigan play? ECU, BG and a UNLV team that was still playing Brumfield. All the subjective proclamations you made about the ACC I could do the same with the Big Ten all the way up to Ohio State with a shit QB who couldn't make a throw and a Penn State team that couldn't convert a third down if Franklin's balls were in a vice.

Michigan gained 200 fucking yards a week ago and everybody assumes FSU wouldn't have a chance against that putrid offense with their best OL out and their OC not able to trust their All American QB to attempt a forward pass. If you gave Norvell a month to scheme an offense around Rodemaker's strengths along with Coleman, Wilson, those mutant tight ends and that OL and unleashed that defense, are you telling me that FSU wouldn't have a chance against that Michigan team we watched Saturday night? Pardon me for taking the points in that one.

 

[gps_3]

It's because Undefeated is and will always be better than 1 loss and results on the field matter more than what a bunch of idiots in a room think they know. Why stop at 1 loss? If Alabama lost to Auburn the week before and had 2 losses would you then say Bama isn't better than FSU? How many losses would Alabama have to have before you would agree that they weren't "better"? 5? It's like last year when Saban was trying to justify Bama getting in over TCU and brought up the idiotic and irrelevant argument that they'd be favored over TCU on a nuetral. Well, no shit Sherlock, and you'd be favored over them if you were 7 and fucking 5. Would you deserve it then?

If you're going to nitpick FSU, why wouldn't you do the same for Michigan? The Big Ten was complete trash and Michigan played two teams with a pulse all year. At least FSU played LSU and Florida away from home in the Non-con. Who did Michigan play? ECU, BG and a UNLV team that was still playing Brumfield. All the subjective proclamations you made about the ACC I could do the same with the Big Ten all the way up to Ohio State with a shit QB who couldn't make a throw and a Penn State team that couldn't convert a third down if Franklin's balls were in a vice.

Michigan gained 200 fucking yards a week ago and everybody assumes FSU wouldn't have a chance against that putrid offense with their best OL out and their OC not able to trust their All American QB to attempt a forward pass. If you gave Norvell a month to scheme an offense around Rodemaker's strengths along with Coleman, Wilson, those mutant tight ends and that OL and unleashed that defense, are you telling me that FSU wouldn't have a chance against that Michigan team we watched Saturday night? Pardon me for taking the points in that one.

Once again, total agreement. Michigan did nothing to distinguish itself from the other undefeateds, but because they started out so high, they were beyond reproach. Now, they may end up being the best team in the country, but having them exempt from the discussion is another example of the system not working. Auto-bids was also the only answer. An objective criteria to be eligible for the championship. We're kind of getting it with the 12 team, but there's obviously still plenty of room for manipulation

 

[B.A.R.]

Just like I don't think FSU should be punished for bad offense you guys really don't understand JH approach to football.

They know the minimum needed and get it done. Rewatch PSU. They knew they could win with 50% of the offense. Even OSU, they didn't bring out their hidden offense until the 3rd quarter after adjustments.

Again, 2 starting OL hurt + QB1 not at full health.

As far as distinguishing between the undefeated teams...

Michigan has the best win and tied for the 2nd best win.

That's the distinguishable factor.

SOS entering the conference championship weekend:

Michigan 36
Washington 46
Florida State 56

So, yes, they did distinguish themselves as far as the unbeatens go. They don't care though, they just want the opportunity to win 2 games.

This scenario works great for them. I'd rather have 1 month to gameplan against one of the best game-plan coaches on the planet then play in the Championship game on a shorter prep period (because someone is inevitably going to ask why I wanted Bama).

 

[B.A.R.]

So, Danny Kanell has been one of the biggest turds in the media for sometime...

Just a fun trip down memory lane... (Not supporting the tweet, just fun comments).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1732046562661216620

 

[Br@ssknux]

Just like I don't think FSU should be punished for bad offense you guys really don't understand JH approach to football.

They know the minimum needed and get it done. Rewatch PSU. They knew they could win with 50% of the offense. Even OSU, they didn't bring out their hidden offense until the 3rd quarter after adjustments.

Again, 2 starting OL hurt + QB1 not at full health.

As far as distinguishing between the undefeated teams...

Michigan has the best win and tied for the 2nd best win.

That's the distinguishable factor.

SOS entering the conference championship weekend:

Michigan 36
Washington 46
Florida State 56

So, yes, they did distinguish themselves as far as the unbeatens go. They don't care though, they just want the opportunity to win 2 games.

This scenario works great for them. I'd rather have 1 month to gameplan against one of the best game-plan coaches on the planet then play in the Championship game on a shorter prep period (because someone is inevitably going to ask why I wanted Bama).

My whole point in bringing up Michigan at all was just illustrating how subjective the whole thing is, and also that it's not like any one team this year is out of anybody else's league. You can make any argument, really, if everything is subjective.

 

[B.A.R.]

My whole point in bringing up Michigan at all was just illustrating how subjective the whole thing is, and also that it's not like any one team this year is out of anybody else's league. You can make any argument, really, if everything is subjective.

Most definitely, as we said all year, this is a 6-8 team race.

I've just seen so much whining about the Michigan offense versus a damn good defense missing key players that's it getting funny is all.

Remember, Michigan "rested" one of their stars on defense as well. That's how they felt about what needed to be done.

 

[B.A.R.]

For those of you who are on recruiting boards...

Any word from Key Largo Karen?

Infamous message board poster years back.

I thought someone said she actually made the fandom move with Jimbo!?!?

 

[cubsker]

Someone reminded me that in 1993 (I know, ancient history), a 1 loss FSU was picked to play in the Orange Bowl against undefeated Nebraska instead of undefeated WVU, and a 1 loss Notre Dame that owned a H2H victory over FSU in mid November. Backup QB for that team was Danny Kanell. I haven't heard him mention their undeserving bid yet

Yep, ND lost their last game of the reg season to Boston College on a walkoff FG iirc

 

[Br@ssknux]

Most definitely, as we said all year, this is a 6-8 team race.

I've just seen so much whining about the Michigan offense versus a damn good defense missing key players that's it getting funny is all.

Remember, Michigan "rested" one of their stars on defense as well. That's how they felt about what needed to be done.

I do think, regardless of what JH's strategy was, the Wolverines would have their hands full with FSU's defense. Now, good luck vice versa, but it would be a game.

 

[cubsker]

If you're all about the 4 best teams, then why do you have Washington in over Jorja?

 

[B.A.R.]

I do think, regardless of what JH's strategy was, the Wolverines would have their hands full with FSU's defense. Now, good luck vice versa, but it would be a game.

Oh, 100%.

Trust me, as solid as the Bama edges are I was definitely worried about that part of a possible FSU matchup.

I was not looking forward to the rock fight with FSU whatsoever.

Plus, Mich already showed they can't properly handle preparing for what is thought to be a substandard opponent.

 

[2daBank]

It's because Undefeated is and will always be better than 1 loss and results on the field matter more than what a bunch of idiots in a room think they know. Why stop at 1 loss? If Alabama lost to Auburn the week before and had 2 losses would you then say Bama isn't better than FSU? How many losses would Alabama have to have before you would agree that they weren't "better"? 5? It's like last year when Saban was trying to justify Bama getting in over TCU and brought up the idiotic and irrelevant argument that they'd be favored over TCU on a nuetral. Well, no shit Sherlock, and you'd be favored over them if you were 7 and fucking 5. Would you deserve it then?

If you're going to nitpick FSU, why wouldn't you do the same for Michigan? The Big Ten was complete trash and Michigan played two teams with a pulse all year. At least FSU played LSU and Florida away from home in the Non-con. Who did Michigan play? ECU, BG and a UNLV team that was still playing Brumfield. All the subjective proclamations you made about the ACC I could do the same with the Big Ten all the way up to Ohio State with a shit QB who couldn't make a throw and a Penn State team that couldn't convert a third down if Franklin's balls were in a vice.

Michigan gained 200 fucking yards a week ago and everybody assumes FSU wouldn't have a chance against that putrid offense with their best OL out and their OC not able to trust their All American QB to attempt a forward pass. If you gave Norvell a month to scheme an offense around Rodemaker's strengths along with Coleman, Wilson, those mutant tight ends and that OL and unleashed that defense, are you telling me that FSU wouldn't have a chance against that Michigan team we watched Saturday night? Pardon me for taking the points in that one.

Im not trying to nitpick fsu cause that is hardly my point but I promise I can make great cases for bama and texas if that was the goal. You absolutely correct, I wouldn’t stop at one loss, I don’t care if it 2 or 3 losses, I’m not sure if you not grasping what I’m trying to say??

I BELIEVE FOR THE SEASON AND RESULTS TO TRULY MATTER THAT EVERY CONF CHAMP SHOULD BE IN THE PLAYOFFS!! What their record was to win the conf doesn’t make a lick of difference to me, if we start pretending the record matters then we are doing what you said you don’t want, we are adding human judgement into the equation cause we are then having to argue the toughness of each conf. Imo if you turn out to be the best team in a conf then that entitles you to play the best teams from the other conferences/regions to find out who is truly the best. It could be a 2-3 loss pac-12 team is way more battle tested than a undefeated acc or big-12 team, who are we to say? The only way to crown a legit champ is to let the best in each conf play! Anything else and it turns back into us thinking we know best which is what you said you were against and I agree we and certainly not the committee have any clue!!! Although if we are gonna argue subjectivity I’d say just cause wr are often wrong about results that doesn’t mean we don’t know who the “better” team is, the outcome of one game hardly disproves that but that not what I’m trying to debate here.,

Obviously these morons botched this from the beginning, having 4 spots for 5 champs ensured we have to go thru this “who more deserving crap” when the fact is they all equally deserving cause they proved to be the best in their part the country! If they wanted only 4 they should have broken up the pac-12 back then and had only 4 power conferences! If they coulda let in a group of 5 and a wild card but then we getting subjective again!!

Far as your point about this year and what if bama had lost the prior week to auburn it wouldn’t change my position they deserving of a playoff spot as the SEC champ but since we had the unprecedented results that all 5 conf champs were deemed “worthy” or “deserving” this year yes I suppose fsu would have to be in over bama but I wouldn’t find that any more “fair”. It’s never been “fair” usually they leave out at least 2 conf champs for teams who didn’t win their conf, that totally discredits the season or idea of finding a true champ way more than this year does imo, cause the committee decides a team who didn’t play for or win their conf is somehow “batter”/“more deserving” than the teams who proved to be the best in their region!! Putting Uga ahead of fsu would have outraged me and they have did something like that practically every year!!!

Make no mistake I believe fsu got screwed, even before the bama game I said if bama beats Uga my final would be Michigan, Washington, tecas, bama. Unfortunately when there only 4 spots for 5 champions someone will always get screwed. Had they put texas 3 and fsu 4 I wouldn’t have been as angry as noles supporters seem to be, I woulda thought they got it wrong but at that point it just personal opinion. Bottom line neither one is more deserving than the other. I just preferred to see this final 4 more since Travis out.

I just thought of this but here the best answer I’ve thought of yet!! Took me 10 years of this stupid system and now this last season but hear me out on this one!!! What they shoulda been doing all this time is take all 5 conf champs, then 4 and 5 have to have a play in game!! How you decide which teams are 4-5 I don’t care, that would be the only way to accomplish what everyone has claimed they wanted all along, a true playoff that was determined by the regular season games!!! None the 2 teams from one conf bull shit, if you can’t win your conf sorry you can’t possibly be the best team in the county! Even the teams who did win the playoff were obviously not the best team, period! So fsu and bama would be playing this week to decide who gets the 4th spot!!! I’m only saying fsu/bama cause that who ranked 4 and 5, as I said I don’t care if we want to determine that by record or what? That would be “fair” and would be the only way to determine a true champion that took into account the entire season!!

I think noles belong in, they a conf champ, this shitty system has just never valued the one thing that should matter most! The reason im happy this year isn’t cause noles got left out, im happy cause we have 4 deserving conf champs, I’m not sure we have ever had that before? I feel bad that I’m glad fsu got hosed instead of bama cause I rather watch Michigan bama without Travis. Doesn’t mean I think it fair, but it never been fair and the results have always been secondary to the committee’s opinion! Maybe the funniest part is nobody seemed to mind when the committee was putting in Ohio st, bama, Uga, lsu, whomever else who didn’t play for or win their conf championship ahead of pac-12 and big-12 champs and that was far more egregious as the deserving conf champs got left out based off the whims of who the committee deemed the better team! Tcu wasn’t even the big-12 champ last year, they didn’t deserve to be in but the committee had screwed the big-12 so many times they threw tcu a bone! Tcu then smashing Michigan or the other teams who got in without winning conference then winning games doesn’t validate the choice, we could put any top 20 team in thar didn’t win their conf and they could win a game, that doesn’t mean they deserved to be in. Bottom line is fsu picked a bad year to have this season as one deserving team had to get screwed, at least they didn’t put Uga in ahead of them, then I would have been sticking up for the noles!

 

[Br@ssknux]

Im not trying to nitpick fsu cause that is hardly my point but I promise I can make great cases for bama and texas if that was the goal. You absolutely correct, I wouldn’t stop at one loss, I don’t care if it 2 or 3 losses, I’m not sure if you not grasping what I’m trying to say??

I BELIEVE FOR THE SEASON AND RESULTS TO TRULY MATTER THAT EVERY CONF CHAMP SHOULD BE IN THE PLAYOFFS!! What their record was to win the conf doesn’t make a lick of difference to me, if we start pretending the record matters then we are doing what you said you don’t want, we are adding human judgement into the equation cause we are then having to argue the toughness of each conf. Imo if you turn out to be the best team in a conf then that entitles you to play the best teams from the other conferences/regions to find out who is truly the best. It could be a 2-3 loss pac-12 team is way more battle tested than a undefeated acc or big-12 team, who are we to say? The only way to crown a legit champ is to let the best in each conf play! Anything else and it turns back into us thinking we know best which is what you said you were against and I agree we and certainly not the committee have any clue!!! Although if we are gonna argue subjectivity I’d say just cause wr are often wrong about results that doesn’t mean we don’t know who the “better” team is, the outcome of one game hardly disproves that but that not what I’m trying to debate here.,

Obviously these morons botched this from the beginning, having 4 spots for 5 champs ensured we have to go thru this “who more deserving crap” when the fact is they all equally deserving cause they proved to be the best in their part the country! If they wanted only 4 they should have broken up the pac-12 back then and had only 4 power conferences! If they coulda let in a group of 5 and a wild card but then we getting subjective again!!

Far as your point about this year and what if bama had lost the prior week to auburn it wouldn’t change my position they deserving of a playoff spot as the SEC champ but since we had the unprecedented results that all 5 conf champs were deemed “worthy” or “deserving” this year yes I suppose fsu would have to be in over bama but I wouldn’t find that any more “fair”. It’s never been “fair” usually they leave out at least 2 conf champs for teams who didn’t win their conf, that totally discredits the season or idea of finding a true champ way more than this year does imo, cause the committee decides a team who didn’t play for or win their conf is somehow “batter”/“more deserving” than the teams who proved to be the best in their region!! Putting Uga ahead of fsu would have outraged me and they have did something like that practically every year!!!

Make no mistake I believe fsu got screwed, even before the bama game I said if bama beats Uga my final would be Michigan, Washington, tecas, bama. Unfortunately when there only 4 spots for 5 champions someone will always get screwed. Had they put texas 3 and fsu 4 I wouldn’t have been as angry as noles supporters seem to be, I woulda thought they got it wrong but at that point it just personal opinion. Bottom line neither one is more deserving than the other. I just preferred to see this final 4 more since Travis out.

I just thought of this but here the best answer I’ve thought of yet!! Took me 10 years of this stupid system and now this last season but hear me out on this one!!! What they shoulda been doing all this time is take all 5 conf champs, then 4 and 5 have to have a play in game!! How you decide which teams are 4-5 I don’t care, that would be the only way to accomplish what everyone has claimed they wanted all along, a true playoff that was determined by the regular season games!!! None the 2 teams from one conf bull shit, if you can’t win your conf sorry you can’t possibly be the best team in the county! Even the teams who did win the playoff were obviously not the best team, period! So fsu and bama would be playing this week to decide who gets the 4th spot!!! I’m only saying fsu/bama cause that who ranked 4 and 5, as I said I don’t care if we want to determine that by record or what? That would be “fair” and would be the only way to determine a true champion that took into account the entire season!!

I think noles belong in, they a conf champ, this shitty system has just never valued the one thing that should matter most! The reason im happy this year isn’t cause noles got left out, im happy cause we have 4 deserving conf champs, I’m not sure we have ever had that before? I feel bad that I’m glad fsu got hosed instead of bama cause I rather watch Michigan bama without Travis. Doesn’t mean I think it fair, but it never been fair and the results have always been secondary to the committee’s opinion! Maybe the funniest part is nobody seemed to mind when the committee was putting in Ohio st, bama, Uga, lsu, whomever else who didn’t play for or win their conf championship ahead of pac-12 and big-12 champs and that was far more egregious as the deserving conf champs got left out based off the whims of who the committee deemed the better team! Tcu wasn’t even the big-12 champ last year, they didn’t deserve to be in but the committee had screwed the big-12 so many times they threw tcu a bone! Tcu then smashing Michigan or the other teams who got in without winning conference then winning games doesn’t validate the choice, we could put any top 20 team in thar didn’t win their conf and they could win a game, that doesn’t mean they deserved to be in. Bottom line is fsu picked a bad year to have this season as one deserving team had to get screwed, at least they didn’t put Uga in ahead of them, then I would have been sticking up for the noles!

All good Banksy and I don't disagree.

***Cue the music****

I long for the days when all college football fans cared about was beating their rivals and winning the league if they were lucky. Thay called it the Mythical National Championship because nobody really card that much. You want to call me the national champion? Cool! But really, all I wanted to do was beat State and Tech and get to the Petunia Bowl, so I can shove it in Jimmy McGonigle's face at the water cooler but hell yeah I'll take another trophy!

The obsession with deciding a national champion is what led to all this. I guess we can argue about whether things were better then or are better now, but I prefer the old way. Call me a square codger I guess.

 

[pressitup]

the bowls mattered when the "champion" was decided by subjectivity.
Here we are and it's still subjectivity and the bowls are dead.

 

[2daBank]

All good Banksy and I don't disagree.

***Cue the music****

I long for the days when all college football fans cared about was beating their rivals and winning the league if they were lucky. Thay called it the Mythical National Championship because nobody really card that much. You want to call me the national champion? Cool! But really, all I wanted to do was beat State and Tech and get to the Petunia Bowl, so I can shove it in Jimmy McGonigle's face at the water cooler but hell yeah I'll take another trophy!

The obsession with deciding a national champion is what led to all this. I guess we can argue about whether things were better then or are better now, but I prefer the old way. Call me a square codger I guess.

Shoot, im def a “get off my lawn” kinda guy!! I don’t like the direction any sports have headed in my lifetime! The nfl rather print every dollar they can than do anything to preserve any integrity to their game!!

I thought the nfl was creating a huge void college could fill but the flood gates opened up for these fucks and they no more interested in the kids,fans, or product, than they are getting any scrap left over by the nfl!! After this year we won’t even know who the best team in a conf is since there he so many teams they won’t all play!

Eventually it look like the nfc/afc and after bout 3-4 years of everyone fighting over the 12th and 13th team they will expand to a 16 team playoff! They already working on turning the nil strictly into pay for play, these young kids coming In won’t have a chance to develop their games or grow into fine young adults as they will be expected to perform so the school gets instant return on investment. I really don’t think any of it great for anyone involved but wtf do I know?? End of day just give me interesting games to cap and bet and I really don’t care, I learned long ago there no sense trying to worry bout the way I think things should be cause nobody cares wjat I think! Lol,

 

[survive&advance]

All good Banksy and I don't disagree.

***Cue the music****

I long for the days when all college football fans cared about was beating their rivals and winning the league if they were lucky. Thay called it the Mythical National Championship because nobody really card that much. You want to call me the national champion? Cool! But really, all I wanted to do was beat State and Tech and get to the Petunia Bowl, so I can shove it in Jimmy McGonigle's face at the water cooler but hell yeah I'll take another trophy!

The obsession with deciding a national champion is what led to all this. I guess we can argue about whether things were better then or are better now, but I prefer the old way. Call me a square codger I guess.

no, the obsession with MONEY is what led to all this

 

[survive&advance]

Most definitely, as we said all year, this is a 6-8 team race.

I've just seen so much whining about the Michigan offense versus a damn good defense missing key players that's it getting funny is all.

Remember, Michigan "rested" one of their stars on defense as well. That's how they felt about what needed to be done.

I don't think anyone reasonable actually downgraded michigan after the b10 title. did exactly what they needed to do