Ohio State will smack clemson right upside the temple

B.A.R. said:
That was the one call that went against them that they definitely can question.

With that being said, the law of averages... was bound to even out a bit...
Click to expand...

Either way, this badly overturned called changed the dynamics of the game, momentum shift, etc. I believe Clemson went on to score a TD after the overturned call. Therefore that's a 14 point swing in favor of Clemson.

At the end of the day, regardless of the game and who is playing, a call that obvious can't be ignored and needs to be called right, even if it takes longer to have the correct experts review the call and making the final decision. With the technology we have in place today, this is inexcusable and should never happen.
 
CryptoWhale said:
Either way, this badly overturned called changed the dynamics of the game, momentum shift, etc. I believe Clemson went on to score a TD after the overturned call. Therefore that's a 14 point swing in favor of Clemson.
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That's some horrendous math. Or are you telling us that Clemson was never going to get the ball again for the rest of the game?
 
CryptoWhale said:
Clemson should have never won the game but many thanks to the officials they made it possible.


Report: College football's officiating coordinator says Ohio State's fumble return TD shouldn't have been overturned
Report: College football's officiating coordinator says Ohio State's fumble return TD shouldn't have been overturned
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You can find plenty of officials with online opinions who will tell you the overturn was right, but so what? You keep ignoring the fact that the receiver's forward progress was stopped, meaning CLEMSON is the team that got screwed if it was a catch. The correct call was Clemson ball at the spot of possession (if there was possession).
 
First play of the Nebraska game, they hit Martinez 5 yards out of bounds. Seemed like an obvious plan to take him out (not that they needed to).
 
CryptoWhale said:
I can't fix stupid. If you need me to spell it out, then perhaps you should walk away from this hobby.
Click to expand...

If one could smell the millennial stench in a post I imagine this would have the odor of my bathroom after a night in my twenties of 17 buscher lighters, 5 shots of Johnny Vegas(minus tequila add crown) , and some leftover Indian food I had no business eating at about 4:45 am knowing dam well I had to be up in three hours. Why is there not a unlike button yet?
 
B.A.R. said:
You realize that isn't the thing about that game, right?

It was the 10 or so other calls in that game...including the hold on 3rd down the play before.

It was Ohio officials, some who had already been suspended in the Big 10 that officiated that game. No one is stupid, they know what happened that day.

Now, just like OSU two days ago... UM that day should have never let it be down to the end...they could of had a bigger lead.

It is what it is... it started with the mugging on the first play that day...it continued with the 1 holding all day on an o-line that gave up 7-8 sacks... and commenced on the 3rd down before the JT play with the holding in the open field. Anyone with a brain could see that... the whole 'JT shot thing is 50/50. I seen the photo shopped versions from both sides... whatever...it was your hometown boys whistling the game well before that...

Anyways, that is my last post in this ridiculous thread.
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M.W. said:
You can find plenty of officials with online opinions who will tell you the overturn was right, but so what? You keep ignoring the fact that the receiver's forward progress was stopped, meaning CLEMSON is the team that got screwed if it was a catch. The correct call was Clemson ball at the spot of possession (if there was possession).
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:smokejoint:
 
Rule 4

Ball Declared Dead

ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead:

a. When it goes out of bounds other than a kick that scores a field goal after
touching the uprights or crossbar, when a ball carrier is out of bounds,
or when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped.
When in question, the ball is dead (A.R. 4-2-1-II).
Click to expand...
If Ross gained possession, the ball was dead as soon as that happened. That means no fumble even if it was a catch.
 
Sorry M.W., but this forward progress was stopped argument is terrible. For forward progress to be stopped, the ball carrier has to be clearly stopped and wrapped up to the point that the whistle should be blown. Okudah did not have him clearly wrapped up before the ball came loose and fumbled. Stop with this ridiculous argument. Just admit that your team got the benefit of a bad call, be happy, and move on to the championship game. Good Luck to your team!
 
Big Stew comes out of retirement to hit us with a strong post rate at just over 5 per year!!!

I am sad I did not have a chance to watch this game. Gonna have to go back and at least watch this fuck up I see so much effort on!!
 
Stewart20 said:
Sorry M.W., but this forward progress was stopped argument is terrible. For forward progress to be stopped, the ball carrier has to be clearly stopped and wrapped up to the point that the whistle should be blown. Okudah did not have him clearly wrapped up before the ball came loose and fumbled. Stop with this ridiculous argument. Just admit that your team got the benefit of a bad call, be happy, and move on to the championship game. Good Luck to your team!
Click to expand...
And he was. The defender had two arms around him and was pushing him backward. Undoubtedly, the play was dead by rule. The rule is right up above in black and white.
 
M.W. Why are you the only person making this forward progress argument? Maybe because you are wrong. If you can honestly watch this play and think it should have been blown dead before the fumble, I don't know what to say. Imagine if he wouldn't have fumbled and instead broke the "start" of the tackle and ran for a touchdown. You would be going crazy if the whistle would have blown the play dead.

This play has been argued by commentators and officials and I have not heard one of them saying this was a forward progress situation. Again, just be happy that your team got the breaks. Just because Clemson clearly got the benefit of more bad calls and breaks doesn't take away the win. Enjoy it, accept it, and hope they win the championship. Again, good luck!!!
 
Wouldn't FORWARD progress indicate a motion of going FORWARD? Appeared that he was contacted by the defender as soon as the ball arrived and got sent backwards.
 
scarf31 said:
A+ for showing up in this thread after that game.

F- for being so salty and giving no credit for going 90 yards on your team with under 2 minutes to go and STILL your team has a chance to win and they piss down their leg.
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Clemson played as good as they could. They were out manned. It was obvious for the first damn near 2 quarters. Till id argue ohio states most important defender got booted on a terrible targeting call. Clemson may get shut out with wade in the game hes that big of a difference maker. Check out the first half of the Michigan game. And that scoop and score reverse was another terrible call. I never questioned Dobbins drop in the end zone. It was not a catch.

The best team did not win. Say all you want to about the last drive lol also if pissing down a leg = slipping on grass then yes you are right. but the zebras took over that game. I've never felt so disgusted for a group of kids to get gut punched not by the other team but by SEC refs... Anyway its sports and it happens.... I stand by the fact that Ohio state wins that game 7 times out of 10. Anomalies happen.
 
Traderjoe123 said:
Clemson played as good as they could. They were out manned. It was obvious for the first damn near 2 quarters. Till id argue ohio states most important defender got booted on a terrible targeting call. Clemson may get shut out with wade in the game hes that big of a difference maker. Check out the first half of the Michigan game. And that scoop and score reverse was another terrible call. I never questioned Dobbins drop in the end zone. It was not a catch.

The best team did not win. Say all you want to about the last drive lol also if pissing down a leg = slipping on grass then yes you are right. but the zebras took over that game. I've never felt so disgusted for a group of kids to get gut punched not by the other team but by SEC refs... Anyway its sports and it happens.... I stand by the fact that Ohio state wins that game 7 times out of 10. Anomalies happen.
Click to expand...
By saying their most important defender is Wade and not Young or Okudah really crushes your validity.
 
Traderjoe123 said:
Clemson played as good as they could. They were out manned. It was obvious for the first damn near 2 quarters. Till id argue ohio states most important defender got booted on a terrible targeting call. Clemson may get shut out with wade in the game hes that big of a difference maker. Check out the first half of the Michigan game. And that scoop and score reverse was another terrible call. I never questioned Dobbins drop in the end zone. It was not a catch.

The best team did not win. Say all you want to about the last drive lol also if pissing down a leg = slipping on grass then yes you are right. but the zebras took over that game. I've never felt so disgusted for a group of kids to get gut punched not by the other team but by SEC refs... Anyway its sports and it happens.... I stand by the fact that Ohio state wins that game 7 times out of 10. Anomalies happen.
Click to expand...
Better team won. It was targeting. It wasn't a catch. tOSU choked on offense once they got into the red zone. If tOSU was of the same ilk as a LSU, they would have been able to put the game away. Clemson lost their top 2 WR and hung in and inevitably won the game by out playing tOSU time and time again.

Complain about calls all you want, but that was targeting all day every day. And if not targeting, call Young for a personal foul for trying to twist Lawrence's body around. tOSU choked choked choked and a real team won.
 
M.W. said:
You can find plenty of officials with online opinions who will tell you the overturn was right, but so what? You keep ignoring the fact that the receiver's forward progress was stopped, meaning CLEMSON is the team that got screwed if it was a catch. The correct call was Clemson ball at the spot of possession (if there was possession).
Click to expand...

Please find an official online who will said the overturn was correct. All I have seen is an unprecedented amount of current and former officials (some former NFL, Super Bowl) who are blasting the over turn of the call on the field that it was a fumble and the scoop/score should've stood as called on the field. I have never seen this before, because most of the times fellow football officials/referees are putting a wall up to defend their brethren. Not this time. The head referee Ken Williamson and the SEC replay officials are getting roasted.

No one from the SEC is defending their officials or even more so, the replay official(s) who made the call to change the ruling on the field.

The only person I have heard defend the overturn is Rece Davis from ESPiN. Like he doesn't have an agenda and isn't a willing soldier of Disney/ESPN.
 
cubsker said:
If outgaining your opponent meant anything, Nebraska would have been 9 and 3. It doesn't. The game is all about finishing drives and not turning the ball over.
Click to expand...


I dont even know what that statement means but outgaining an opponent by 30% means there were some things that went severely wrong that the box doesnt account for... Ie turnovers special teams refs..... Targeting and scoop and score reversals were daggers and the zebras lacked consistency. They were 2 awful calls. That spun the scoreboard. Beyond awful.
 
rambler882 said:
Better team won. It was targeting. It wasn't a catch. tOSU choked on offense once they got into the red zone. If tOSU was of the same ilk as a LSU, they would have been able to put the game away. Clemson lost their top 2 WR and hung in and inevitably won the game by out playing tOSU time and time again.

Complain about calls all you want, but that was targeting all day every day. And if not targeting, call Young for a personal foul for trying to twist Lawrence's body around. tOSU choked choked choked and a real team won.
Click to expand...

Agree on targeting call. Disagree on the catch, fumble, scoop score reversal. And, so do many other former officials. With all that, Ohio State still had a shot at the end and blew it, no doubt.

Clemson will get pole axed by LSU.
 
RoMoPDSho said:
Agree on targeting call. Disagree on the catch, fumble, scoop score reversal. And, so do many other former officials. With all that, Ohio State still had a shot at the end and blew it, no doubt.

Clemson will get pole axed by LSU.
Click to expand...
Word. This is my own POV is seeing it live it looked like a no catch and I believe the refs felt the same but let it play out because that is what everyone says you should do when it is close. You can call bullshit on me here, but that is why I throw out indisputable evidence to over turn. I personally think they used the review to make the decision one way or the other and in slow motion it looks like a catch, in real time it looks like a no catch.

A true coin flip in my opinion. It could have gone either way
 
Stewart20 said:
M.W. Why are you the only person making this forward progress argument? Maybe because you are wrong. If you can honestly watch this play and think it should have been blown dead before the fumble, I don't know what to say.
Click to expand...
I'm not the only person making this argument. I've seen it a ton of places, including Clemson message boards, posts by officials, and posts by fans of other teams.

The rule say I'm right, and everybody who watches football knows I'm right. When a receiver catches the ball beyond the line to gain and gets pushed back behind it, it's a first down. The ball is spotted where he gains control of the ball, not where he is after the defender pushes him back toward his own goal line. You see it almost every game. That's *if* it was a catch in the first place.
 
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Traderjoe123 said:
I dont even know what that statement means but outgaining an opponent by 30% means there were some things that went severely wrong that the box doesnt account for... Ie turnovers special teams refs..... Targeting and scoop and score reversals were daggers and the zebras lacked consistency. They were 2 awful calls. That spun the scoreboard. Beyond awful.
Click to expand...

Yep, I could complain about the refs until the cows come home. If you smack someone upside the temple, none of that shit matters.
 
rambler882 said:
Word. This is my own POV is seeing it live it looked like a no catch and I believe the refs felt the same but let it play out because that is what everyone says you should do when it is close. You can call bullshit on me here, but that is why I throw out indisputable evidence to over turn. I personally think they used the review to make the decision one way or the other and in slow motion it looks like a catch, in real time it looks like a no catch.
Click to expand...
I think they may have as well (I have heard that the CCA manual tells them to do so), and that's one reason why this focus on the review is so damn stupid. The only question for people who think they got screwed is whether the ultimate call matched what the rules dictated in the first place. You can find plenty of examples of SEC officials making similar calls in other games, although the forward progress issue ultimately moots the question anyway.
 
M.W. said:
I think they may have as well (I have heard that the CCA manual tells them to do so), and that's one reason why this focus on the review is so damn stupid. The only question for people who think they got screwed is whether the ultimate call matched what the rules dictated in the first place. You can find plenty of examples of SEC officials making similar calls in other games, although the forward progress issue ultimately moots the question anyway.
Click to expand...

Your whole point about forward progress is false. IF that was the case then the head field referee Ken Williamson who spoke to a pool reporter would’ve said that was the reason. Instead Williamson said “the play was reviewed in the stadium as well as at the video review center the SEC uses in Birmingham, and said they determined when Ross moved, the ball was becoming loose in his hands and he did not complete the process of the catch. the play was reviewed in the stadium as well as at the video review center the SEC uses in Birmingham, and said they determined when Ross moved, the ball was becoming loose in his hands and he did not complete the process of the catch.”

So he said they thought the ball was coming loose. But if you watch it in slow motion as Williamson said they did, Ross catches it high and is bringing it down as he takes steps. The ball becomes loose when Okudah knocks it from him.

Forward progress has nothing to do with it or the field referee wouldn’t have thrown the bean bag indicating a fumble. Or they would’ve said that was the reason for the overturn. Maybe the SEC has their own set of rules but I digress.

Again, I will state. Former officials both in college and the NFL have come out in an unprecedented way to denounce the call made to reverse the field decision.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1211137879218380800
 
RoMoPDSho said:
Your whole point about forward progress is false. IF that was the case then the head field referee Ken Williamson who spoke to a pool reporter would’ve said that was the reason.
Click to expand...

My point is indisputably correct, and no official anywhere has denied that. If it was a catch, forward progress would mean no fumble. If he had held onto the ball, the ball would have been spotted back upfield. However, the officials are in agreement that there was no catch.

Instead Williamson said “the play was reviewed in the stadium as well as at the video review center the SEC uses in Birmingham, and said they determined when Ross moved, the ball was becoming loose in his hands and he did not complete the process of the catch. the play was reviewed in the stadium as well as at the video review center the SEC uses in Birmingham, and said they determined when Ross moved, the ball was becoming loose in his hands and he did not complete the process of the catch.”
Click to expand...
Right. They said no catch. But if it had been a catch, then forward progress would have ruled out the fumble.

So he said they thought the ball was coming loose. But if you watch it in slow motion as Williamson said they did, Ross catches it high and is bringing it down as he takes steps. The ball becomes loose when Okudah knocks it from him.
Click to expand...
So what? If it's a catch, as you insist, forward progress still says it's not a fumble.
Forward progress has nothing to do with it or the field referee wouldn’t have thrown the bean bag indicating a fumble.
Click to expand...
Oh. Whatever an official does is automatically correct? I guess you have no complaint with what the replay officials did!

We're talking about the RULES, not the officials.

Anyway, college officials say that the fact that forward progress was stopped -- immediately -- means that the receiver could not make a football move to complete the catch. So it is relevant even to the question of whether it's a catch in the first place.

Or they would’ve said that was the reason for the overturn. Maybe the SEC has their own set of rules but I digress.

Again, I will state. Former officials both in college and the NFL have come out in an unprecedented way to denounce the call made to reverse the field decision.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1211137879218380800
Click to expand...
No, they haven't. The college officials I've heard are unanimously against your position. The guy you cite is an NFL ref talking about the replay decision, which of course is irrelevant to the question of whether it was a catch and fumble.
 
Last edited:
M.W. said:
My point is indisputably correct, and no official anywhere has denied that. If it was a catch, forward progress would mean no fumble. If he had held onto the ball, the ball would have been spotted back upfield. However, the officials are in agreement that there was no catch.


Right. They said no catch. But if it had been a catch, then forward progress would have ruled out the fumble.


So what? If it's a catch, as you insist, forward progress still says it's not a fumble.

Oh. Whatever an official does is automatically correct? I guess you have no complaint with what the replay officials did!

We're talking about the RULES, not the officials.

Anyway, college officials say that the fact that forward progress was stopped -- immediately -- means that the receiver could not make a football move to complete the catch. So it is relevant even to the question of whether it's a catch in the first place.

No, they haven't. The college officials I've heard are unanimously against your position. The guy you cite is an NFL ref talking about the replay decision, which of course is irrelevant to the question of whether it was a catch and fumble.
Click to expand...

welcome to tosu fans bro...i learned to let it go.
 
Regarding the forward progress issue, what happens if he doesn't fumble and then slips that tackle from the defender and turns up field to pick up additional yardage.....in that situation, they would NOT call forward progress stopped and spot the ball where he originally caught the ball......the point is that we have no idea what would have happened if he didn't fumble......

I have no fandom for either side, but feel that tOSU got the screw job on this call......but it happens all the time and tOSU had other chances to win
 
M.W. said:
My point is indisputably correct, and no official anywhere has denied that. If it was a catch, forward progress would mean no fumble. If he had held onto the ball, the ball would have been spotted back upfield. However, the officials are in agreement that there was no catch.


Right. They said no catch. But if it had been a catch, then forward progress would have ruled out the fumble.


So what? If it's a catch, as you insist, forward progress still says it's not a fumble.

Oh. Whatever an official does is automatically correct? I guess you have no complaint with what the replay officials did!

We're talking about the RULES, not the officials.

Anyway, college officials say that the fact that forward progress was stopped -- immediately -- means that the receiver could not make a football move to complete the catch. So it is relevant even to the question of whether it's a catch in the first place.

No, they haven't. The college officials I've heard are unanimously against your position. The guy you cite is an NFL ref talking about the replay decision, which of course is irrelevant to the question of whether it was a catch and fumble.
Click to expand...

You keep citing all these "college officials who are unanimously against your position." No, they are not.

Would love to see the social media or other public statements where that has come out from those officials you say are against my position?

It isn't unanimous...as at least two college officials came out and said it was the wrong call to overturn it.

Bill Carollo, head of B1G officials says "I haven't talked to anyone who thought it was an incomplete pass".
saturdaytradition.com

B1G head of officials Bill Carollo on Fiesta Bowl call: 'I haven't talked to anyone who thought it was an incomplete pass'

This is an eye-opening comment.
saturdaytradition.com saturdaytradition.com

Dean Blandino, FOX officiating analyst and former college/NFL official - who disagreed with the targeting call AND the catch/fumble. FOX Sports rules analyst Dean Blandino explains why the targeting call against Ohio State likely was incorrect (VIDEO)

Dean Blandino breaks down controversial call in Fiesta Bowl | FOX Sports

Dean Blandino on the controversial call during the Clemson vs Ohio State Fiesta Bowl. Dean gives his opinion on this crucial call.
www.foxsports.com www.foxsports.com

CBS Sports reported "One Power Five officiating supervisor added, "I think [the SEC would] like to have that [call] back."

So, please go ahead an tell me the one official who has officially come out and said in public that the call was correct.
 
Champions win that game all calls aside. tOSU had every opportunity to win but choked on about 8 occasions. Clemson showed how a champion finishes a game no matter how it started or what calls went for or against or injuries.

Good news, theres next year for Fields v Lawrence.
 
jimmymo said:
Regarding the forward progress issue, what happens if he doesn't fumble and then slips that tackle from the defender and turns up field to pick up additional yardage.....in that situation, they would NOT call forward progress stopped and spot the ball where he originally caught the ball......the point is that we have no idea what would have happened if he didn't fumble......

I have no fandom for either side, but feel that tOSU got the screw job on this call......but it happens all the time and tOSU had other chances to win
Click to expand...

100% correct
 
HUNT said:
welcome to tosu fans bro...i learned to let it go.
Click to expand...

You learned to let what go? Are you a fan of either team? Were you holding a betting ticket in this game? The thought process here isnt logical. And your continued posts on the issue demonstrate your lack of success of letting go whatever it is you're attempting to let go.

I have some news for you. There isn't a fan base in america that likes getting jobbed on calls. It's not a unique trait specific to any fan base. And it happens to all fan bases at one time or another. And in some cases more crucial times than others. But bottom line is everyone has grievances.

As someone holding an osu +3 ticket (unequivocally the right side) I'd love it if the game were decided on the field and not through some anonymous figure with a magic buzzer playing god in a bunker in birmingham. We're all bettors here and irrespective of fandom you'd think we could all agree on this point. But perhaps not.
 
AliShaheed said:
You learned to let what go? Are you a fan of either team? Were you holding a betting ticket in this game? The thought process here isnt logical.

I have some news for you. There isn't a fan base in america that likes getting jobbed on calls. It's not a unique trait specific to any fan base. And it happens to all fan bases and one time or another. And in some cases more crucial times than others.

As someone holding an osu +3 ticket (unequivocally the right side) I'd love it if the game were decided on the field and not through some anonymous figure with a magic buzzer playing god in a bunker in birmingham. We're all bettors here and irrespective of fandom you'd think we could all agree on this point. But perhaps not.
Click to expand...


I respect that. Don't mind me... Just having fun being a Michigan fan... For once or twice in the last 20 years. And 2016 still stings.
 
AliShaheed said:
It's a separate issue though.
Click to expand...

Of course. But the refs make good and bad calls. It's part of the game. Hell, even replay fucks things up. It's all subjective when in crucial situations imo.

Michigan fans got killed for bitching about 16. Learned to shake it off, all you can do.
 
AliShaheed said:
You learned to let what go? Are you a fan of either team? Were you holding a betting ticket in this game? The thought process here isnt logical. And your continued posts on the issue demonstrate your lack of success of letting go whatever it is you're attempting to let go.

I have some news for you. There isn't a fan base in america that likes getting jobbed on calls. It's not a unique trait specific to any fan base. And it happens to all fan bases at one time or another. And in some cases more crucial times than others. But bottom line is everyone has grievances.

As someone holding an osu +3 ticket (unequivocally the right side) I'd love it if the game were decided on the field and not through some anonymous figure with a magic buzzer playing god in a bunker in birmingham. We're all bettors here and irrespective of fandom you'd think we could all agree on this point. But perhaps not.
Click to expand...
And if they upheld that call and Clemson lost....we could be saying the same thing that it wasn't a catch. Or if Clemson lost and there wasn't targeting, we could say it should have been targeting!

In my very unbiased opinion it was a true coin flip call. Watching it live I said it was a no catch. Everyone I was watching it with said it was a no catch. After the replay the entire room said no catch and I was the only person who said "I don't think it is a catch, but I'd be very surprised to see it over turned". I was wrong.

Simple fact is tOSU fans can say it was a bad call but if it went the other way you'd be hearing the same thing. Sometimes there are just calls that can go either way and there will always be a loser and a winner with those calls.
 
rambler882 said:
And if they upheld that call and Clemson lost....we could be saying the same thing that it wasn't a catch. Or if Clemson lost and there wasn't targeting, we could say it should have been targeting!

Sometimes there are just calls that can go either way and there will always be a loser and a winner with those calls.
Click to expand...

The difference is that it was called a certain way on the field.
 
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