Per 100 possessions their numbers are actually very comparable. The thing that jumps out when looking at the Bball ref pages though is that MJ’s 15th year was his final year as a Wizard when he was doing his national pickup retirement tour. Lebrons 15th year is happening right now.
Lebron > Jordan
- Thread starter braves
- Start date
Per 100 possessions their numbers are actually very comparable. The thing that jumps out when looking at the Bball ref pages though is that MJ’s 15th year was his final year as a Wizard when he was doing his national pickup retirement tour. Lebrons 15th year is happening right now.
cogenman
Raider Nation for Life
You can add flopper to that list but yeah, overall he’s not a bad guy. And off the court he’s a saint.
Agree, this is why I think Jordan is the G.O.A.T., but it’s hard to argue against LeBron being the BOAT (Best) I know that is semantics, but I think it’s accurate.
horses
Brady licks Marino's knob
Lebron has at least elevated himself to the point where this topic can be discussed credibly.
That said, I will go with MJ; Lebron's numbers have come against the weakest extended run a conference has seen in my lifetime. VK touched on it above a bit...this year's Celtics teams wouldn't have even made the playoffs during the Jordan era. Add to this the who's who of no name teams he has beaten to get to the finals each of these 8 years and compare that to Jordan's road during the 90's and one can't help but laugh at the disparity. Name ANY HOF players LBJ has kept from an NBA championship? The list is virtually endless for MJ.
That said, I will go with MJ; Lebron's numbers have come against the weakest extended run a conference has seen in my lifetime. VK touched on it above a bit...this year's Celtics teams wouldn't have even made the playoffs during the Jordan era. Add to this the who's who of no name teams he has beaten to get to the finals each of these 8 years and compare that to Jordan's road during the 90's and one can't help but laugh at the disparity. Name ANY HOF players LBJ has kept from an NBA championship? The list is virtually endless for MJ.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
He is a douche
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
Jordan made a pit stop to make a game winning shot for the College National Championship, and a couple year pit stop to try baseball.
Lebron is a special athlete and I actually like a lot of his game but the comparison isn't there for me. The other factor that I think is huge is that Lebron is physically dominant in a league without bigs. He would have to dramatically improve his jumper were he playing against rim defenders and ball defenders who were allowed to tocuh him.
Jordan might have averaged 45 a game in today's league and every one of his other stats would have been greater too.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
that is a low bar
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
I think an interesting line in the sand on this seems to be who saw both careers as fans. Those fans who saw Jordan's full career and Lebrons full career to date, tend to think that Jordan wasn't just better than Lebron but fairly decisively so.
And I want to be clear about something. It isn't the 6-0 vs 3 and whatever between the two men in championships. MJ was just a better player. A better defender. A better competitor. A better scorer. Mentally tougher. Better in the clutch. And I think people seem to be forgetting what an incredible athlete MJ was too.
But if you didn't get to see Jordan .... I can see that as being tough on people.
I have a much harder time being confident that Jordan was better than Wilt, than I will ever have with determining he is better than Lebron because I never saw Wilt.
What bothers me is that no matter who the best player of the time is,,,,, it seems like people want to try and compare them to the best ever.
And I want to be clear about something. It isn't the 6-0 vs 3 and whatever between the two men in championships. MJ was just a better player. A better defender. A better competitor. A better scorer. Mentally tougher. Better in the clutch. And I think people seem to be forgetting what an incredible athlete MJ was too.
But if you didn't get to see Jordan .... I can see that as being tough on people.
I have a much harder time being confident that Jordan was better than Wilt, than I will ever have with determining he is better than Lebron because I never saw Wilt.
What bothers me is that no matter who the best player of the time is,,,,, it seems like people want to try and compare them to the best ever.
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
You give lebron, scottie and the shooters jordan had and he wouldnt have had to leave cleveland
How he handled it was bad and immature, but that he left was not a problem, he was surrounded by crap
He left a team where antawn jamison, jj hickson, anthony parker, and mo williams were the other starters
How he handled it was bad and immature, but that he left was not a problem, he was surrounded by crap
He left a team where antawn jamison, jj hickson, anthony parker, and mo williams were the other starters
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
He had Boobie
divol
The Spurs can suck my manhood
Better than MJ, I doubt, but surely not better than Kobe...
Bron plays his best season in a very long time and given his age, it's just amazing... but... that's just it... he has amazing season... to be GOAT he needed much more seasons like this one...
He also got so many chances to get more rings and blew it...
Titles not the only thing that matters, but given the quality of his rivals (other than the Dubs), true GOAT should have at least 5 at this point...
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
For several of kobes titles he wasn't close to being the best player on his own team that year. One could make an interesting argument that Wade was the man for one of lebrons.
The pippen was great narrative adopted in the last 10 years or so is laughable too. Better than Mo though.
And to address an earlier point about the bulls being favored in their titles ...of course they were...they had the greatest player ever representing 20% of their starting lineup. It would be shocking for any team with Jordan on it to not be the fave.
The pippen was great narrative adopted in the last 10 years or so is laughable too. Better than Mo though.
And to address an earlier point about the bulls being favored in their titles ...of course they were...they had the greatest player ever representing 20% of their starting lineup. It would be shocking for any team with Jordan on it to not be the fave.
Sharpshooter
Pretty much a regular
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/5...mes-eastern-conference-playoff-opponents-2018 . This is list of teams Lebron eliminated in the East in last 8 years, ranked by quality. Most of them are pretty weak, that's what makes his incredible 8 consecutive years finals run a bit less impressive. In six finals he lost against well coached quality Western teams it was never even close (except vs Dallas). I love him as a player, but to call him GOAT I wanna see him beat such teams more often. If he wins the ring this year for example, then he will have a much stronger case.
Fondybadger
CTG Partner
When Lebron beats the Nerdlucks we can have this discussion.
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
This is not even a debate.
Lebron is the definition of BEAST. God doesent make them like this very often.
The man is 33 years old, and is still the most dominant physical specimen despite
1- Having played 15 years
2- deep playoff runs
3- competing vs athletes from the Simmons Anthony Davis generation who themselves are a different breed.
Basketball is a team game. You cannot compare individuals vs individuals.
The better question is which player is more valuable to their teams or which player would you start a team with if they were both in their primes.
2 great players but for me Lebron has competed against the older guys Garnett duncan pierce and nowitski and the newer guys like Durant curry Westbrook and the even newer guys like Tatum etc.
Lebron essentially played against guys born from 1977 to 1998-
Lots changed from 1977 to 1998 in terms of the way the game changed and in training nutrition and the game changed into so many different styles.
One thing never changed. Which was whichever team Lebron was on reached the finals.
Lebron is the definition of BEAST. God doesent make them like this very often.
The man is 33 years old, and is still the most dominant physical specimen despite
1- Having played 15 years
2- deep playoff runs
3- competing vs athletes from the Simmons Anthony Davis generation who themselves are a different breed.
Basketball is a team game. You cannot compare individuals vs individuals.
The better question is which player is more valuable to their teams or which player would you start a team with if they were both in their primes.
2 great players but for me Lebron has competed against the older guys Garnett duncan pierce and nowitski and the newer guys like Durant curry Westbrook and the even newer guys like Tatum etc.
Lebron essentially played against guys born from 1977 to 1998-
Lots changed from 1977 to 1998 in terms of the way the game changed and in training nutrition and the game changed into so many different styles.
One thing never changed. Which was whichever team Lebron was on reached the finals.
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
A better question is obviously Lebron is the best ever in the modern era to play basketball. Not sure about Abdul Jabari and chamberlain or russel.
Lebron is so good that maybe even now at 33 he would be easily the most dominant athlete in the Nfl
There was Bo Jackson and now
Lebron. The man could be the best basketball and football player without a doubt in the nfl.
Lebrons high school football coach who coached for Green Bay packers said LeBron James is the third best receiver to ever play despite never even playing college ball.
You guys think randy moss was a stud well LeBron is moss on super steroids.
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
If he wins this year it will be a fucking miracle
Go down the list of lebron vs his opponents, how many times did his teams even have more than 3 of the best 10 players in the series without him involved
More than 2 lf the best 6?
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
Also why is kobe in this thread at all
Hes not even top 10
Hes not even top 10
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
Lebrons timing on the rejections his speed and his vertical jump? And size and power and weight.
Who in the world would ever be able to cover this man 1 on 1 on the gridiron?
I can’t think of anybody except for Sergio Ramos
Who in the world would ever be able to cover this man 1 on 1 on the gridiron?
I can’t think of anybody except for Sergio Ramos
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
Jordan never played GM and then got a pass for having no help. He’s got plenty of help. But all you can do is sit still and shoot when you play with the guy who wears the leather off the ball every possession.
6 finals losses. Played with a top 10 player for everyone of them other than 2. Played with an all star for all of them.
Jordan is the greatest defender of all time. Greatest scorer. Played with superior competition in the East. How many finals would Lebron have made in the West. 2? Maybe 3?
6 finals losses. Played with a top 10 player for everyone of them other than 2. Played with an all star for all of them.
Jordan is the greatest defender of all time. Greatest scorer. Played with superior competition in the East. How many finals would Lebron have made in the West. 2? Maybe 3?
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
To determine who is the best we need to use criteria.
1- Shooting skills Jordan 9-7 wins
2- Passing Skills LeBron wins 10-6
3- leadership skills Jordan wins 9-7
4- Defensive skills Tie
5- Intelligence Skills LeBron wins 9-8
6- Durabikity Lebron wins 10-7. Jordan took a year off to fail at baseball or rest up his body
7- Clutchness skills Jordan 9-7.
Totals. Jordan 48 points Lebron 50.
It’s quite close but like many others who are not Mj lovers and open minded Lebron just edges out Jordan.
Titles won cannot me used in this debate because Jordan played with an all time Top 25 player in Pippen and the best defensive player in the game in Rodman and an effective Horace grant and kucoc.
I fail to see how Jordan himself did anything! He had a stacked team?
1- Shooting skills Jordan 9-7 wins
2- Passing Skills LeBron wins 10-6
3- leadership skills Jordan wins 9-7
4- Defensive skills Tie
5- Intelligence Skills LeBron wins 9-8
6- Durabikity Lebron wins 10-7. Jordan took a year off to fail at baseball or rest up his body
7- Clutchness skills Jordan 9-7.
Totals. Jordan 48 points Lebron 50.
It’s quite close but like many others who are not Mj lovers and open minded Lebron just edges out Jordan.
Titles won cannot me used in this debate because Jordan played with an all time Top 25 player in Pippen and the best defensive player in the game in Rodman and an effective Horace grant and kucoc.
I fail to see how Jordan himself did anything! He had a stacked team?
Sharpshooter
Pretty much a regular
Last six years he had a legit big 3, all guys in their prime, many bench players he hand picked himself. Only this year not the case, but his opponents this year were again very weak. Only good team he faced was Boston, and they were run by kids who couldn't handle the pressure of Game 7 vs the King in the end.
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
Rodman was an old fool by the time he was on the Bulls.
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
They are 2 different players. Both amazing.
Like comparing bmw to Mercedes tough call
Jordan seems more Alpha style male.
Lebron not super Alpha.
Jordan more intense
Lebron more prodigious
Jordan weak and skinny
Lebron a physical beast
Jordan sneaky taking off a year to rest
Lebron durable like a 57 Chevy Malibu.
2 different eras
2 legends.
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
If Jordan was the god he is made out to believe how come he didn’t win a championship with the bulls in his first 4-5 seasons?
Because pippen the 80’s lebron shiwed up and that’s when the bulls were dominant.
Pippen imo was as valuable as Jordan ever was.
Jordan had the refs in his pocket. The league was all Jordan. Nike was all in. Marketing was just starting regarding superstars.
Follow the money. Lots of money was to be made if Jordan succeeded. Jordan was a created superstar. He received all the referee calls.
He also was allowed or told by the nba to take off a year to rest and then come back.
It was all marketing.
Because pippen the 80’s lebron shiwed up and that’s when the bulls were dominant.
Pippen imo was as valuable as Jordan ever was.
Jordan had the refs in his pocket. The league was all Jordan. Nike was all in. Marketing was just starting regarding superstars.
Follow the money. Lots of money was to be made if Jordan succeeded. Jordan was a created superstar. He received all the referee calls.
He also was allowed or told by the nba to take off a year to rest and then come back.
It was all marketing.
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
Kurt Rambis was too quick. Don't see how Lebron could get around him and the coaches wouldn't let Lebron go left. I think Celtics G Kite would just outmuscle him and physically wear him down.
I mean as long as DeRozan > Jordan and Lebrons defense is > Jordan defense, lets go all in.
I mean as long as DeRozan > Jordan and Lebrons defense is > Jordan defense, lets go all in.
Fondybadger
CTG Partner
Kurt Rambis has more NBA Championship rings than Lebron. Talk about a travesty he's not already in the hall!
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
Jordan 6’6 216 lbs
DeRozan 6’7 223 lbs.
They are essentially the same player. Same type of game except DeRozan doesent have the supporting cast that Jordsn had.
DeRozan 6’7 223 lbs.
They are essentially the same player. Same type of game except DeRozan doesent have the supporting cast that Jordsn had.
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
I honestly think lebron would be worse playing in that era and Jordan would be worse playing in the new Ben Simmons era.
Lebron would have plenty of goons to rough him up. Guys like mason Oakley laimbeer mahorn were very strong. They would pummel lebron a lot. Even though lebron himsekf is a beast lots of guys would try and nail him.
I see it like A heavyweight power puncher playing another heavyweight power puncher.
Lebron would have plenty of goons to rough him up. Guys like mason Oakley laimbeer mahorn were very strong. They would pummel lebron a lot. Even though lebron himsekf is a beast lots of guys would try and nail him.
I see it like A heavyweight power puncher playing another heavyweight power puncher.
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
Jordan in today’s era would be a DeRozan athletically.
When Hersey Hawkins or Jeff hornacek or sam Perkins are guarding you it’s easy. Now Jordan would have fast agile athletic guys on him.
I really don’t see Jordan having the shooting ability of curry or Thompson.
I don’t see Jordan being a Durant either. He just doesent have Durante’s range or long body.
In today’s nba Jordan’s athleticism is average.
Both players were great because they played in the right eras.
Jordan was quicker than the slow guys like hornacek, Kevin Johnson Rex Chapman etc.
Lebron was stronger than everyone in the softer era.
When Hersey Hawkins or Jeff hornacek or sam Perkins are guarding you it’s easy. Now Jordan would have fast agile athletic guys on him.
I really don’t see Jordan having the shooting ability of curry or Thompson.
I don’t see Jordan being a Durant either. He just doesent have Durante’s range or long body.
In today’s nba Jordan’s athleticism is average.
Both players were great because they played in the right eras.
Jordan was quicker than the slow guys like hornacek, Kevin Johnson Rex Chapman etc.
Lebron was stronger than everyone in the softer era.
Sammy Meatballs
Sammy Meatballs? Never Heard of Her
WHEN you have any problem, no matter how big or how small always remember this.
When you are thinking of a problem that is depressing in nature.
Hold your nostrils shut with your hand and close your mouth. When you realize you cannot breathe all problems will quickly be put in perspective.
Breath is everything. We are breath. Breath is life.
We are life.
When you are thinking of a problem that is depressing in nature.
Hold your nostrils shut with your hand and close your mouth. When you realize you cannot breathe all problems will quickly be put in perspective.
Breath is everything. We are breath. Breath is life.
We are life.
emkee
The Truth Is Out There
These playoffs...
Cramps swept the #1 seed, got the coach of the year fired and just beat the league's coaching golden boy Brad Stevens and killed a 37-0 Celtics trend.
Dude pretty good, imo. I'm a Jordan kid though, saw him play during my most impressionable years so MJ will always be my #1.
Kids today, millennials etc are LeBron era dudes so it is what it is.
I think we got a lot of give and take between the two.
Both great during their eras.
Cramps swept the #1 seed, got the coach of the year fired and just beat the league's coaching golden boy Brad Stevens and killed a 37-0 Celtics trend.
Dude pretty good, imo. I'm a Jordan kid though, saw him play during my most impressionable years so MJ will always be my #1.
Kids today, millennials etc are LeBron era dudes so it is what it is.
I think we got a lot of give and take between the two.
Both great during their eras.
