SF_capper
CTG addict
imo yes
Kobe or LeBron?
- Thread starter Killa
- Start date
imo yes
SF_capper
CTG addict
I have kind of changed my mind, but earlier this season, I thought Houston could beat LA if things worked out. On paper, Houston is the best defensive team individually in the league. Now, they havnt put it all together whether it be because not enough time together, coaching, personalities, whatever. IF they could get it together, they have/had what it takes to beat LA and win it all. Mixed feelings about Tmac leaving- on one side he didn't seem to have the heart of a champion (Yag phrase, but its true) and he's a 1st rd virgin likely for a reason, but on the other side the POTENTIAL of what houston could be with a motivated Tmac was scary. His absence hurts their potential, but it may help them out (if that didn't make sense, I could try to explain it further although it would take more typing)
to answer your question: at this point, no I don't think Houston would have a shot at beating LA if they played a 7 game series today. Things could change in a month or two and if they live up to their potential, they can beat the Lakers even when LA has HCA. Mainly from a matchup perspective
Battier limits and frustrates Kobe
Yao limits Pau, and Pau watches as Yao owns him
Brooks burns Fisher (can't defend the quick PGs)
I guess it leaves Artest guarding Odom- Odom gets shut out, beat up, and embarassed
Lakers deep bench (Farmar, Vujabitch, Ariza, Powell) doesn't have the edge on Houston's bench (Lowry, Barry, Wafer, Hayes, Landry, Mutumbo)
Battier frustrates and limits Kobe
sportjunky
Follower of tha truddhist philosophy
kobe doesn't guard the best opposing player because he doesn't have to. its ariza's designated role and at this point in kobe's career it is what makes sense
i agree with divol, lakers are in the spurs' head. feels like they're overwhelmed by the firepower cuz with bowen no longer a factor, they have no hope vs. kobe
only team in the west that really scares the lakers is utah. they have no chance vs. dwill and utahs depth and hca are tough to deal with
anyone that thinks the lakers want to avoid boston is kidding themselves. they want revenge more than anything.
i agree with divol, lakers are in the spurs' head. feels like they're overwhelmed by the firepower cuz with bowen no longer a factor, they have no hope vs. kobe
only team in the west that really scares the lakers is utah. they have no chance vs. dwill and utahs depth and hca are tough to deal with
anyone that thinks the lakers want to avoid boston is kidding themselves. they want revenge more than anything.
SF_capper
CTG addict
kobe doesn't guard the best opposing player because he doesn't have to. its ariza's designated role and at this point in kobe's career it is what makes sense
what about in the finals last yr. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce- 2 all-stars of Kobe's position that were killin LA.... Kobe after losing the 1st 2 games, was switched up on Rondo... ? Maybe to rest for regular season he can take breaks, but in the finals?
what about in the finals last yr. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce- 2 all-stars of Kobe's position that were killin LA.... Kobe after losing the 1st 2 games, was switched up on Rondo... ? Maybe to rest for regular season he can take breaks, but in the finals?
sportjunky
Follower of tha truddhist philosophy
are you sure about there being a switch after the first two games? i thought kobe was on rondo from the start, laying off and giving him a lot of room to shoot so kobe could play help defense all over i think was the strategy from the start of the series.
as for allen and pierce, kobe can't be chasin ray ray and theres no shame in not being able to stop pp, not with the way he played in the playoffs.
kobe's d has always been overrated. his ability to block shots is still spectacular
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but other than that he's lazy and doesn't really focus that hard, probably leads the team in mental lapses with vlad gone.
as for allen and pierce, kobe can't be chasin ray ray and theres no shame in not being able to stop pp, not with the way he played in the playoffs.
kobe's d has always been overrated. his ability to block shots is still spectacular
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but other than that he's lazy and doesn't really focus that hard, probably leads the team in mental lapses with vlad gone.
sportjunky
Follower of tha truddhist philosophy
and as a laker fan, I have no problem admitting lebron has probably surpassed kobe, hell i traded Dwill and Rashard for Bron in fantasy, no way in hell i give up that much for kobe, but kobe is surrounded with way more talent so when the lakers go on to win the title this year, it won't matter what kind of absurd stats lebron and wade have put up, kobe will go back to being regarded as the best player on the planet cuz as a society we place way too much emphasis on winning i dont really know where im going with this but lebron won't be accepted as the better player in places that set the meme until he has the better team
SF- Good thoughts on Houston. They have all the pieces, particularly with Yao's incredible free throw shooting. Just seems like something is missing though. Maybe they need that one go-to-guy in the end like Pierce, Kobe, or LeBron. Maybe they just need a bit more offensive firepower. I dunno, it's just hard to think of them as a championship team for some reason, I dunno why. Great coach, no glaring weaknesses, dominant big man, good defenders, good shooters, balanced scoring. Maybe they'll surprise me this year.
sportjunky
Follower of tha truddhist philosophy
houstons problem is brooks isn't ready which leaves artest dictating things on the perimeter. as talented as he is, that probably isn't the way to go about winning it all
SF_capper
CTG addict
Killa- Tmac was supposed to be 'that guy' down the stretch for them. Also, I wouldn't take their road record/other records too seriously right now. This is a team that hasn't been healthy all yr and thus cannot yet work together. I think the thing they seem to be missing is playoff experience and proof that they can do it- which is pretty big. Again, not saying they will, but I think they can do great thing
sportsjunky- good to see you're not incredibly and unfairly biased as a laker fan unlike some of the others in this thread. As far as Kobe guarding Rondo, I believe it was after game 1 or 2, but possitive. Someone else can probably find out. And not to keep going back to this as you've already stated that he's too good to be chasing ray around and such, but i found it weird how no one found it off that Kobe was the one sagging off Rondo.
I understand the strategy in it: leave Rondo to help out the team on D since he's so quick and savvy. However, any athletic guy could've done this. This is just a gadget defense and even if kobe got steals off of it, it still doesn't mean much to me regarding his defensive abilities. In the finals, Radmonovic was guarding Pierce often- ... ...? I mean yes Pierce was great and on fire, but as an example, Lebron took the challenge to guard Pierce- why didn't kobe?
I think this is very big for the argument of Kobe or Lebron as we can argue who the better scorer is/ who's more clutch/best leadership/ best playmaking abilities without ever really getting anywhere because its up for debate and nothing can really say one is better than the other because they are clearly in a class on their own in those categories- which makes this debate a debate. However, if offense is say a tie (since we have no conclusion), then what about defense? In the NBA finals, you don't have Radmanovic fail night after night trying to guard Pierce if you believe (and Phil jackson is no idiot) that Kobe can do it.
Hell Kobe probably wins 1st team all defense this yr again and espn analysts are answering "hows better: kobe/Lebron" and they have side by side comparisons for different parts of the game, and when it gets to defense they'll no doubt say "well Kobe is perenially an All-NBA 1st team defender, blah" Take that argument away, and suddenly the comparison tips to lebron's side imo. not sure if that made sense
sportsjunky- good to see you're not incredibly and unfairly biased as a laker fan unlike some of the others in this thread. As far as Kobe guarding Rondo, I believe it was after game 1 or 2, but possitive. Someone else can probably find out. And not to keep going back to this as you've already stated that he's too good to be chasing ray around and such, but i found it weird how no one found it off that Kobe was the one sagging off Rondo.
I understand the strategy in it: leave Rondo to help out the team on D since he's so quick and savvy. However, any athletic guy could've done this. This is just a gadget defense and even if kobe got steals off of it, it still doesn't mean much to me regarding his defensive abilities. In the finals, Radmonovic was guarding Pierce often- ... ...? I mean yes Pierce was great and on fire, but as an example, Lebron took the challenge to guard Pierce- why didn't kobe?
I think this is very big for the argument of Kobe or Lebron as we can argue who the better scorer is/ who's more clutch/best leadership/ best playmaking abilities without ever really getting anywhere because its up for debate and nothing can really say one is better than the other because they are clearly in a class on their own in those categories- which makes this debate a debate. However, if offense is say a tie (since we have no conclusion), then what about defense? In the NBA finals, you don't have Radmanovic fail night after night trying to guard Pierce if you believe (and Phil jackson is no idiot) that Kobe can do it.
Hell Kobe probably wins 1st team all defense this yr again and espn analysts are answering "hows better: kobe/Lebron" and they have side by side comparisons for different parts of the game, and when it gets to defense they'll no doubt say "well Kobe is perenially an All-NBA 1st team defender, blah" Take that argument away, and suddenly the comparison tips to lebron's side imo. not sure if that made sense
We already discussed the topic in about 11 pages...why not mix it up and discuss something else and have some fun? It was just a simple question posed, why not answer and discuss? Because Bron' is better...that's why..
:shake:
Kush's question is good though.
One game, its #24 for sure.
One thing LeBron has become consistent with last 3-4 years are these unreal finishes to the season. He just starts tearing it up the last half of season. Not saying he didn't earlier in year because he did, but he has led a Cavs push after the ASG for several years in a row now.
One game, its #24 for sure.
One thing LeBron has become consistent with last 3-4 years are these unreal finishes to the season. He just starts tearing it up the last half of season. Not saying he didn't earlier in year because he did, but he has led a Cavs push after the ASG for several years in a row now.
Well it will have already been decided by the time a Lakers/Cavs final comes along...cuz like Killa said above, Kobe has proven himself the past few years and is pretty much in cruise control while LBJ has just taken over hte league.
A Lakers/Cavs final will be intriguing to see those two match up, but as far as completely DETERMINE the MVP...not so much, that's already been done.
The other thing with the MVP...its media dsriven..ya know...Its Brons time as it is....
Kobe went several years where he shoulda won and didn't..same with LBJ...its a Yag award when Steve Nash won it twice in retrospect.
We'll see come the Finals...Bron choked basically in both meetings against the Lakers this year. That will show me personally if he is the true MVP(aside from regular season). Doesn't want to be the next David Robinson(like when Hakeem bitchslapped his ass back in 1995)
Yep, you're right. Its full of politics...I haven't forgotten that...but I think Bron's name stands out more this year than anyone elses on the ballot.
And if you're measuing him in two regular season games in what, January and February against the Lakers...stop. Thats ridiculous. Measure the other 60 games where he has put up full or near triple doubles like 50, 14 and 8 or something. Lakers were the better team both times they met, but that by no stretch classifies Kobe as the better play, or the Lakers as the better team as a matter of fact.
NBA is a tough league. A game against the Kings this time of year who have nothing to play for is likely a lot tougher than playing the Celtics, just because they have nothing to play for and there is talent everywehre.
The playoffs will tell the tail. Teams bring it all to the table
I am not using those games to guage the MVP. Just was a bit dissapointed in the guy really. On the biggest stage I expect that guy to shine. He does 95 percent of the other times.
Hopefully this is the finals...it won't determine the better player...it will determine the champion though...and thats all that counts..
And actually, the first meeting with the Lakers LBJ was STILL the game's high scorer, scoring 23 points, 8 boards and 4 assists while Kobe chipped in 20...just from glancing at ESPN quick.
If Lebron doesn't put him 60 points he gets shafted because he's that premier superstar now...which is fine. It should make him better...
If Lebron doesn't put him 60 points he gets shafted because he's that premier superstar now...which is fine. It should make him better...
:shake:
But why? Why were you disappointed in him? He was the game's high scorer in the first meeting putting up sick numbers. I didn't even pull up the second game but I'm sure he had a "decent" game at least.
I assume just because of the loss and the way the team looked/reacted during it...right?
The 2nd game..he tried facilitating early...but was very passive and when they went up 10-12 early third...he still was passive..and then he tried to get aggressive and couldn't do a thing...then passive again...
It was a statement game and while he got everyone going great early...like he does a lot...he couldn't take over the game in 2nd half..
It was a statement game and while he got everyone going great early...like he does a lot...he couldn't take over the game in 2nd half..
I wasn't comparing the two at all...
I was just talking about the potential finals matchup...thats all....
Oh man, I think the Admiral is still having nightmares about Dream pulling all those pump-fakes and spin-moves and ball-fakes on him and leaving him dizzy. That was really something to see. When I'm asked who is the best center I've ever personally seen play (i.e. in my era), I answer Hakeem without hesitation. I was honestly usually in awe watching that guy play. Amazing, amazing player on both ends.
divol
The Spurs can suck my manhood
As far as D goes, again, with one game for the ring, I still take Kobe. LeBron is a monster on defense, but that Jordan's steal on Malone? I think that Kobe has far better chance to make that steal, rather than LeBron. Kobe has much more years in the league and it shows. He knows lately when to step up and when to lay back and the same on the defense. That three pointer that Fisher nailed against NO? Who made the first move for the Lakers to pressure the Hornets? Kobe. I also remember his steal this season, just can't remember what game it was, that he made a shot, Lakers were up by 2 and they he forced a turnover and that what sealed the game for the Lakers.
sportjunky
Follower of tha truddhist philosophy
lol yah that was an insane slam attempt. it really is hard to believe he makes that even if kobe doesn't get in the way, but its still crazy the way kobe swatted that right at the rim as randolph was throwing it down with full force.
H.R. Pufnstuf
Pretty much a regular
:4_17_208:
:cheers:
Uhhh don't miss 60 Minutes on Sunday...
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broadwayjoe
May 5Dimes MLB 2nd place
haha brewer you jump at any opportunity to bash your bulls
cogenman
Raider Nation for Life
With all the March Madness going on, I couldn't help but to think which teams would Lebron or Kobe would have went to had they played college ball? I think Lebron would have definatley went to North Carolina. Imagine if he was a Tarheel, sick. And for Kobe..... being from Philly, I can see him playing for Villanova. I can also see him playing for a west coast team say UCLA. Who do you guys think they would have played for or think they would have fit in with?
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt1 width="75%">Kobe </TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap>
</TD><TD class=alt1 title=Votes noWrap align=middle width="12%">58</TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap align=right width="13%">48.74%</TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 width="75%">LeBron </TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap>
</TD><TD class=alt1 title=Votes noWrap align=middle width="12%">61</TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap align=right width="13%">51.26%</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tfoot align=middle colSpan=4>Voters: 119. You have already voted on this poll</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
what do the 58 drug users look like ?
what do the 58 drug users look like ?
Bron said his senior year that if he wasn't going right to the league he was going to Ohio State. Imagine that's definitely where he would of ended up...
B
buckeyeburritos
Guest
REally? I heard CArolina, but who knows. He knew he was going league, so I doubt he thought much about it.
He told Kenny at ASG weekend when he did the broadcast gig for the rook-soph game he woulda been Carolina.
B
buckeyeburritos
Guest
Lebron would have been a monster in college, I can't even imagine...
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