Is it fair that the SEC only plays H. School teams in week 13?
- Thread starter braves
- Start date
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
Fair to say that Pac 12 and Big 12 are as good or better
It's just so hard to compare conferences. LSU and Wisconsin played earlier at a "neutral" site and it's fair to say they were fairly even, Wisky should have won the game but ultimately LSU took it. LSU is to the SEC what Wisky is to the Big 10, so in my unbiased view I would put those two conferences as even, slightly ahead of the ACC but not by much. ACC has more firepower at the top than the Big 10 but depth is an issue. Bad teams all over the Big 10/SEC/ACC and only a few poor teams in Big 12 and Pac 12.
Nice thread.
It's just so hard to compare conferences. LSU and Wisconsin played earlier at a "neutral" site and it's fair to say they were fairly even, Wisky should have won the game but ultimately LSU took it. LSU is to the SEC what Wisky is to the Big 10, so in my unbiased view I would put those two conferences as even, slightly ahead of the ACC but not by much. ACC has more firepower at the top than the Big 10 but depth is an issue. Bad teams all over the Big 10/SEC/ACC and only a few poor teams in Big 12 and Pac 12.
Nice thread.
ManchesterUk
Fat Bloke
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
SEC is the best conference top to bottom. But just an opinion ... no way to know for sure which is why only one team from any given conference should make a playoff. You could make arguments that the Big12 and Pac12 are almost on par and I couldn't make valid arguments against them because all of my arguments would be circular. But by my pr, which will buy you a kick in the nuts and a thank you card from my bookie, SEC still number one.
How do you keep an undefeated team that is in the top 7 in offensive scoring and defensive scoring out of a playoffm no matter who they played?
How do you keep an undefeated team that is in the top 7 in offensive scoring and defensive scoring out of a playoffm no matter who they played?
The SEC hating is getting bigger and it should with the agendas certain outlets put out...
But, with the bolded....they have always been a few teams then garbage....brutal...hot garbage...like almost B1G garbage...
So I hate that 'to bottom' crap.
They should be with the recruiting land they have...they should kill it...even everybody but Vandy and UK will suprise next few years methinks.
GatorsLeafsBills
Pretty much a regular
I will not post I will not post
GatorsLeafsBills
Pretty much a regular
No one ever complained about the agenda ESPN put out back in 06 when they were pimping the Michigan/Ohio State game for 2 months and begged for a rematch in the National Title game. We saw what happened then.
But I do agree with you on the "Top to Bottom" SEC has always had 2-3 very very shitty teams usually Vandy/UK/MSU. SEC has always been a Top Heavy conference and then the 5-9 being better than the rest of the conferences 5-9.
If you played Head to Head the 1 vs. 1/2 vs. 2/3 vs. 3 etc from the SEC vs any other conference, I would lay money on the SEC coming out with a Winning Record vs any conference out there.
You also have Ohio State to thank for the SEC rise to power. If it wasn't for Ohio State getting raped by Florida and then LSU, there might not be all this SEC hype.
booksbestfriend
On Johnny's Shitlist
Best conference? Yes, but they are not head and shoulders above the rest. They have weaknesses too. Until they play a power-5 heavy out of conference schedule, we will never know.
But they have to play a gauntlet of in conference. Really???
I will state. Until you schedule better out of conference competition, we will never know just how good you are. Catch 22.
But they have to play a gauntlet of in conference. Really???
I will state. Until you schedule better out of conference competition, we will never know just how good you are. Catch 22.
GatorsLeafsBills
Pretty much a regular
Give me a break of the 20 ranked teams that are not SEC, the SEC has/will play 6 of those teams. What the hell else do you want?!
booksbestfriend
On Johnny's Shitlist
That is 6 games out of a possible 56 non conference games. It is the Presbyterians, UT-Martns,...etc (pay day games). Sprinkle in a power-5. SEC hangs their hat on beating each other. They are awarded pre-season hype rankings. Coupled with ESPNs agenda to drive their own network. Then get the luxury of saying they beat the #1, 2, 3 4...team in the nation. Those rankings are not earned, rather given.
Matter of fact, this is a non-winnable argument. As you will not be able t convince me differently. And I am sure you are steadfast in your beliefs as well. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Matter of fact, this is a non-winnable argument. As you will not be able t convince me differently. And I am sure you are steadfast in your beliefs as well. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Silkydiamonds
Imma sip this tea
this is a great post, i love it
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
It is un-winnable because of the bias the already exists on both sides of the argument. It is just assumed that the SEC won't schedule anybody, but at least for Alabama, Mich St and Ga Tech both just opted out of H&H series. It works both ways. And the way this playoff committee has started, it makes zero sense to schedule a losable OOC game.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
great point and it crushes the little guy who is good. No one is going to want to schedule ecu or marshall or Houston or ucf anymore ... for what? in the case of marshall this year most (all?)power5 teams would lose to a really good team and not get any credit for the loss or if they pulled off the upset, any credit for the big win. I mean, the complaint isn't with the SEC schedule makers for scheduling shitty teams at home on purpose, it is with a system that allows for two teams coming from one conference making a playoff of only four teams when they never schedule out of conference true road games. Though I wouldn't care if they did ... as there should always be a limit of one team per conference.
GatorsLeafsBills
Pretty much a regular
Alright I got sucked in with the Scheduling thing so now I am bringing the numbers. Also I am putting ND down for ACC but those were forced upon you.
SEC Out Of Conference (11 Games Vs. "Power 5")
5-ACC
4-American
2-Big 10
4-Big 12
8-Conference USA
5-MAC
3-MWC
11-Sun Belt
14-Non D-1A
ACC Out of Conference (13 Games Vs. "Power 5")
6-American
3-Big 10
3-Big 12
3-Conference USA
6-Independent
5-MAC
3-MWC
2-Pac-12
5-SEC
6-Sun Belt
14-Non D-1A
Theres the list for you. Not very different when you loo at the numbers.
The problem is this, IT ALL NEEDS TO BE THE SAME. If you want to have 5 power conferences. Then all the conferences should have the same amount of teams, they all should play a conference championship game, they all should decide if 8 or 9 conference games are needed and they all should have to play AT LEAST 1 of the other Power 5 teams. Schedules like North Carolina State and Texas A&M should never happen.
SEC Out Of Conference (11 Games Vs. "Power 5")
5-ACC
4-American
2-Big 10
4-Big 12
8-Conference USA
5-MAC
3-MWC
11-Sun Belt
14-Non D-1A
ACC Out of Conference (13 Games Vs. "Power 5")
6-American
3-Big 10
3-Big 12
3-Conference USA
6-Independent
5-MAC
3-MWC
2-Pac-12
5-SEC
6-Sun Belt
14-Non D-1A
Theres the list for you. Not very different when you loo at the numbers.
The problem is this, IT ALL NEEDS TO BE THE SAME. If you want to have 5 power conferences. Then all the conferences should have the same amount of teams, they all should play a conference championship game, they all should decide if 8 or 9 conference games are needed and they all should have to play AT LEAST 1 of the other Power 5 teams. Schedules like North Carolina State and Texas A&M should never happen.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
They have 2 true road game wins against power5 ..... the entire sec.... 14 teams .. 2 true road wins. Arkansas spanked texas tech ( credit Arkansas for scheduling at texas tech .. there was no way to know they would suck this bad ) and auburn found their lucky horseshoe again vs Kansas state in a game they were probably outplayed .. but credit them for going into a tough place against a good team and winning. I think that's it ... 2 .... how can we possibly allow two teams from the same conference when they don't go on the road and play anyone ?? They have a few coming .. uk at ville I think , florida at fsu , southcock at Clemson ...
Again I ask .. what if Marshall would win the SEC? If you don't think they could .. imagine they could .... and ask yourself the question ... What if Marshall would win the SEC?
Again I ask .. what if Marshall would win the SEC? If you don't think they could .. imagine they could .... and ask yourself the question ... What if Marshall would win the SEC?
We must have very different definitions of the terms "never" or "road games".
What is the correct number of road games against power 5 teams that should be played, and should SEC teams not expect return trips from those power 5 teams?
reNew Orleans
Clubbin' with Rasual Butler
SEC
booksbestfriend
On Johnny's Shitlist
They should expect a return trip. I'll take it a step further. Each team should be mandated to play 1 team from each conference. How they are selected is beyond me. Put the names in a hat and draw (don't care). From there should be on rotation with home/away until each team has faced all opponents. Some will get lucky during off years. Oh well.
Since our elected committee is taking analytic and eye test, this should help choose the best four based on like opponents.
Step up Big 12 and get a couple more partners. There are some named independents out there. Maybe Marshall, even though you have that area wrapped up with WVU.
Since our elected committee is taking analytic and eye test, this should help choose the best four based on like opponents.
Step up Big 12 and get a couple more partners. There are some named independents out there. Maybe Marshall, even though you have that area wrapped up with WVU.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
Looking at last week's Top 25 (playoff committee), only Auburn (KSt), Clemson (UGA), UCLA (UVA), Notre Dame (FSU, ASU), Mich St (Ore), and West Virginia (Maryland) have played a power 5 team in a true road game. AU, WVU, and UCLA have the only wins. Maybe not just the SEC
Then you can certainly understand why looking at "true" road games in a one year snapshot makes exactly zero sense.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
The burden of proof on whether to have two playoff teams from one conference of 14 teams out of 128 ( *roughly 11% ) is squarely on that conference, though. In other words, it doesn't matter about the pac12 or the big12 or the bigten or the acc or the sun belt ... because no one is saying two teams from those conferences have a shot at going. No one ... and I mean no one ... talks about Oregon and ASU making it or Ohio State and Nebraska .. or Duke and FSU .. or TCU and Baylor .. .... see they actually have to win their conference.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
Let's just declare the sunbelt the best conference ... have them play home games against fcs schools and play eachother in conference. Then they get the two teams. Because every win is a quality win and every loss is a quality loss in conference, once you predetermine that the conference is the best.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
I don't have much issue with a conference champ only playoff, but there is no denying that all conferences are not created equal. Not to beat up on the B1G or Ohio State, but last night was the first regular season ranked opponent Ohio St has played in something like 3 years. The last time they beat a ranked opponent in the regular season before last night was in 2006. If the goal is to get the best teams in the playoffs, the argument for a one loss non-champ is certainly valid over a 3 loss champ from a weak conference. Apples to oranges a bit, but when was the last time a conference champ won the NCAA BBall championship?
booksbestfriend
On Johnny's Shitlist
What teams are expecting a team to travel to their place and not expect a return the following year? I do notice that the SEC had a lot of neutrals to open the season. Not necessarily a bad thing, as it is the only true barometer to measure their worth. I dont know how far in advance these are scheduled. I can only speak for the ones I recall (AL/MICH, AU/CLEMSON, AL/WVU). These had one year advanced notice and think Chick-fil-a and Jerry Jones have the upper hand in the teams selected.
The one bad thing is that you take the common fan out of these games. Not every fan, or student, has the funds to attend these events. So, it does take the pageantry out of the game.
Then again I may not be understanding exactly what you are getting at.
Earlier in the thread it was pointed out how many road games the SEC played this season. After ignoring the home and home series that have both been played in recent years and are on future schedules, we're basically told that Georgia, or I guess the conference in this context, gets no credit for beating Clemson because the game was in Athens this year (as opposed to Clemson last year). Apparently road games against power 5 conference teams is the only barometer to judge perceived conference strength, and the SEC should be scheduling differently than everyone else and playing more of those games.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
That might be because so many teams from smaller conferences knock off power conference champs, that pundits say they can't ... often in an arena that is geographically favorable for the perceived good team.
RetroVK
This claim is disputed
You should be scheduling differently if you are going to be GIVEN the benefit of the doubt over every other conference based on perception. If the sec is the only conference allowed to get two teams into a 4 team playoff ( which would seem the case given the examples I already showed ), I should hope said conference has been held to a higher standard. In this case, the SEC is being held to a lower standard and reaping greater reward for it.
That is completely absurd and I'm fairly certain you know it.
It sounds like an issue that should be taken up with the committee instead of the habitual whining, and borderline obsession, with the SEC.
booksbestfriend
On Johnny's Shitlist
The UGA example is good. More of that is needed. They also have GT as a rivalry, which we know to be cross conference.
MOT, I think you are an LSU fan. Although, I may be mistaken. Outside of Wisconsin, what was your teams non-conference?
MOT, I think you are an LSU fan. Although, I may be mistaken. Outside of Wisconsin, what was your teams non-conference?
Yes, I'm an LSU fan. This year's OOC was Wisconsin (in Houston), Sam Houston, UL Monroe, and New Mexico St. That seems like an odd question though being that we're so sure the SEC schedules are weak I assumed everyone making that statement already knew who each team played. Here is the rest of LSU's OOC schedules from 09, which coincides with the beginning of the Washington series, and forward. Obviously not all are complete yet, but the games listed are confirmed.
2009
@ Washington
UL Lafayette
Tulane
Louisiana Tech
2010
North Carolina (in Atlanta)
West Virginia
McNeese St
UL Monroe
2011
Oregon (in Dallas)
Northwestern St
@ West Virginia
Western Kentucky
2012
North Texas
Washington
Idaho
Towson
2013
TCU (in Dallas)
UAB
Kent St
Furman
2014
Wisconsin (in Houston)
Sam Houston St
UL Monroe
New Mexico St
2015
McNeese St
@ Syracuse
Eastern Michigan
Western Kentucky
2016
Wisconsin (in Green Bay)
Jacksonville St
Southern Miss
South Alabama
2017
Georgia Southern
Syracuse
Troy
2018
Miami (in Dallas)
2019
@ Texas
2020
Texas
2021
@ UCLA
2022
@ Arizona St
2023
Arizona St
2024
UCLA
2009
@ Washington
UL Lafayette
Tulane
Louisiana Tech
2010
North Carolina (in Atlanta)
West Virginia
McNeese St
UL Monroe
2011
Oregon (in Dallas)
Northwestern St
@ West Virginia
Western Kentucky
2012
North Texas
Washington
Idaho
Towson
2013
TCU (in Dallas)
UAB
Kent St
Furman
2014
Wisconsin (in Houston)
Sam Houston St
UL Monroe
New Mexico St
2015
McNeese St
@ Syracuse
Eastern Michigan
Western Kentucky
2016
Wisconsin (in Green Bay)
Jacksonville St
Southern Miss
South Alabama
2017
Georgia Southern
Syracuse
Troy
2018
Miami (in Dallas)
2019
@ Texas
2020
Texas
2021
@ UCLA
2022
@ Arizona St
2023
Arizona St
2024
UCLA
crawdads
Fairway to Heaven
Lets say Auburn or Ole Miss is the 5th best team in the SEC, would you take Texas over either of them?
Sorry, we can't make that judgement unless Ole Miss had played @Arizona State, @Michigan State, and @Florida State in addition to their game against Boise. We can't decide anything about Auburn since they didn't play @Oregon, @Baylor, and @Ohio State in addition to their game @Kansas State. We'll just never know.
booksbestfriend
On Johnny's Shitlist
The entire point of the thread was to question the SEC's perceived strength compared to other conferences. Even though their is a network devoted to the conference, the worldwide leader uses each of their brands to push the conference in our faces. As if the rest of the country does not play football. With out of conference schedules such as the one you posted, the only other way to pass judgement is bowl scheduling. The SEC wins their share, but does not win them all (no conference does). When the conference loses, it is always a question of motivation ...ala BAMA/OK or uf/Louisville. ...and so on.
Ill be the first to say there are great teams in the SEC, particularly in the west. But, there are great teams in other conferences and all to often SEC fans refuse to give them credit because they "don't play anybody". Yet, I dont see them on the SEC schedules to warrant that claim. Instead, I see Sunbelt teams scattered all over their schedules.
Ill be the first to say there are great teams in the SEC, particularly in the west. But, there are great teams in other conferences and all to often SEC fans refuse to give them credit because they "don't play anybody". Yet, I dont see them on the SEC schedules to warrant that claim. Instead, I see Sunbelt teams scattered all over their schedules.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
Luckily for clown, I think it is much more likely to have no SEC teams than 2 in the playoff. Making general statements and claims at this point is silly because there are 4 weeks of games left. Last week's CFP had something like 15 games between the top 15 teams left to be played. It will work itself out.
It wasn't that long ago that the worldwide leader was force feeding us Ohio St and USC. Things change. They will change again. 60 years ago the media would have you believe football wasn't played anywhere but the Midwest and East coast
It wasn't that long ago that the worldwide leader was force feeding us Ohio St and USC. Things change. They will change again. 60 years ago the media would have you believe football wasn't played anywhere but the Midwest and East coast
Whatever perceived bias ESPN has toward the SEC is no worse than what they had toward USC during their run or the Ohio State/Michigan hype machine mentioned previously. The simple solution is to change the channel. The only time I watch ESPN is if they are showing a game I want to watch.
Everyone knows there are other great teams around the country. An SEC fan that says otherwise probably arrived at their opinion using the same amount of rational thought as someone suggesting the SEC has to schedule more difficult OOC games than everyone else just because the committee, or ESPN, thinks they're good.
Who exactly are you looking for, and not seeing, on SEC schedules? And are you under the impression the SEC is the only conference that schedules Sun Belt teams, MAC teams, etc?
The SEC shouldn't play any conference games. Since they have a network and some people that rank teams think they're good they should be forced to take on the top teams from everywhere. And the schedules have to be fluid, probably only made 3 or 4 weeks at a time once it is determined who is playing best and who the top teams from around the country really are.
gps_3
Head of Alabama Department of Decision-Making
Seriously. When Alabama scheduled Southern Miss (a fairly traditional opponent over the decades), S. Miss was 13-1. Once Fedora left, we should have dropped them off the schedule and gotten an OOC national title contender that had holes in the schedule.
booksbestfriend
On Johnny's Shitlist
Now you are simply being antagonistic. Here's one: the SEC should join the NFC South. Vanderbilt could beat any team currently in the division because they are in the SEC.
GatorsLeafsBills
Pretty much a regular
The answer is this, each team should play 1 Power 5 Opponent and MOST OF THEM DO. Yes there are some (TAMU, MSU, Nc State and others) that don't. Thats awful. Then there are some that played a great OOC schedule, FSU is one of them with OK State adding to the Normal Florida game. But then you can look at what they did last 2 year
2013 - Florida/Nevada/Bethune Cookman/Idaho
2012 - Florida/South Florida/Murray State/Savannah State
But to say that LSU schedule is just awful because they play 1 Power 5 and then 3 nobodies. SO DOES 90% of the other Power 5s.
2013 - Florida/Nevada/Bethune Cookman/Idaho
2012 - Florida/South Florida/Murray State/Savannah State
But to say that LSU schedule is just awful because they play 1 Power 5 and then 3 nobodies. SO DOES 90% of the other Power 5s.
The last post was obviously loaded with sarcasm, but I'm still waiting to hear a logical explanation as to why the SEC should have to schedule differently than everyone else. How is what LSU is doing, which is putrid apparently, different from what other power 5 teams across the country are doing? I'll readily admit I haven't looked at every team's schedule like everyone else here has broken down the SEC's.
