CTG Official NBA MVP Poll

I have given Dirk a lot of crap but I have sort of turned around on him this year. The guy is their franchise player and has done essentially everything that is asked of him. He is an incredible player and I think he still doesn't get the respect he deserves. No player in the league can do what he does at his size. They removed basically all the offensive talent he had around him such as Nash and Finley and told him to be the guy and he has been for the most part. He deserved the MVP for sure, his team had 67 wins. He had 83 first place votes out of 129. He was hurt with the same injury that takes weeks for players to come back from and he came back within several days because of his team's need for him and the brutal west. When they went to the Finals two years back, he did EVERYTHING for this team and then ran into Wade. He takes plenty of big shots. He won that game against the Jazz a week or two back on a game winning shot.
 
dirk is one of the more clutch players in the league. the only reason terry takes the shot is cuz avery is a moron who gets in the way of winning.

just look at their previous 2 games vs portland and seattle. coming out of timeouts, the plays avery draws up (vs. portland he had Dirk Run Away from the ball to the other side of the court) and had the ball going to Jet who threw up some worthless desperate garbage shots that never had a prayer and they lose the game.

vs. utah last week avery didn't have a chance to get in the way and Dirk drains the game winner.
 
if they give kobe the mvp then i hope the nfl goes back and gives oj simpson a lifetime achievement award
 
get_image

:eyes: it wasnt a poster a charge was called
 
a charge was called?

shoulda been a flagrant 1 for throwing an elbow into Amare's manhood.
 
dirk is one of the more clutch players in the league. the only reason terry takes the shot is cuz avery is a moron who gets in the way of winning.

just look at their previous 2 games vs portland and seattle. coming out of timeouts, the plays avery draws up (vs. portland he had Dirk Run Away from the ball to the other side of the court) and had the ball going to Jet who threw up some worthless desperate garbage shots that never had a prayer and they lose the game.

vs. utah last week avery didn't have a chance to get in the way and Dirk drains the game winner.

Yup, for whatever reason avery doesnt seem to trust dirk with the ball late in that situation and the game rides in the hand of Terry.
 
So much Mamba hate here, when you're the best of course you're gonna have lots of haters as well. To say Bron is better than him in general, he'd need to improve his jump shot more for sure, but he's close I don't deny that. Also I'd like to hear which Cavs players King James made look better this season, and then look at Lakers guys this season (and Hornets of course). I just don't think Bron did anything more than Kobe did last couple of seasons (a part from stat sheet which I don't think is the most relevant when choosing MVP), and therefore don't deserve votes.
 
So much Mamba hate here, when you're the best of course you're gonna have lots of haters as well. To say Bron is better than him in general, he'd need to improve his jump shot more for sure, but he's close I don't deny that. Also I'd like to hear which Cavs players King James made look better this season, and then look at Lakers guys this season (and Hornets of course). I just don't think Bron did anything more than Kobe did last couple of seasons (a part from stat sheet which I don't think is the most relevant when choosing MVP), and therefore don't deserve votes.

:shake:
 
Re: CP3

Screw it, I'm gonna overreact and vote for Paul... LOL, jk. But, damn great game. NOH fans should be proud of this guy's debut performance. Very impressive. Kobe's still the best in the league and should win, but man, if any ballots weren't in yet, this game will make them think twice.
 
Kobe's still the best in the league and should win, but man, if any ballots weren't in yet, this game will make them think twice.

It boggles my mind that so many people still consider it accepted fact that Kobe is a better player than LeBron. Jesus. WTF does LeBron have to do? He scores more, he passes better, he rebounds better, he's a better leader, he's better at making teammates better, and he's more clutch. Kobe is a better on the ball defender SOMETIMES, but a) Kobe gets lazy and often gets lit up, and 2) anybody who watches a lot of Cleveland games knows that when James needs to in the last few minutes, he can lock down the other team's best player. So, I ask. What makes Kobe better than LeBron?
 
It's very simple. Basketball involves 2 very basic principles: scoring, and stopping your opponent from scoring. Are you honestly gonna tell me, independent of their teammates, that Lebron is the better scorer? Kobe, as Barkley often asserts, is the only person that's even approached Jordan's level of scoring effectiveness. The guy just wills the ball in the hoop at the most unbelievable times. Lebron, let's be honest, just isn't a good shooter any way you slice it. He's much more athletic and way stronger, and that's what gets him most of his points. But, his head just doesn't allow him to stay in that killer instinct long enough to take full advantage. He gets cocky and start taking jumpers, which we've acknowledged is not his forte.

And, honestly, if we're talking defense, anyone can be "lazy" at times, but Kobe is just the better defender, imo. It's probably not by much, but it definitely has a lot to do with their size. Kobe has the stamina of a lighter man. Basic physics (which it seems LBJ often supersedes) tells us that the bigger guys get tired faster than smaller guys. LBJ has to save a lot of his energy, and thus can't afford as much on D.

I could go further, but I think the argument can easily be made for LBJ. It's really a matter of intangibles, and those are really hard to argue.

Can you honestly say you don't see the argument for Kobe being the best? I think you can.
 
I mean, Kobe is the most freakish scorer I've ever seen. The guy scored 81 points and 55 in a half. In another game he scored 62 in three quarters. He's a scoring freak. But over time, LeBron can score more because with his size, he doesn't have to work nearly as hard as Kobe does for buckets. He gets way more layups and dunks. On those drives to the hoop when defenders collapse, Kobe has to kick it out to a teammate, while LeBron can finish himself. How many game-winning, game-tying, or game-icing LAYUPS has LBJ had this season? Jordan and Kobe, it's always jumpers at the buzzer. LBJ just fucking goes to the hoop and gets a layup or dunk in the clutch, it's unheard of.

LeBron can be a defensive animal when they need him to. I remember one particular game at Sacramento this year. He pretty much chilled all game, then not only took over offensively in the last 2 minutes, but also decided to give Kevin Martin the sickest defensive lockdown he's ever seen. Martin was nervous, scared, intimidated, turning it over, getting stuffed, getting it stolen, etc, he couldn't even get a shot up. You get my point. Kobe gets lazy. Arenas dropped 60 on Kobe's face, Redd dropped 45.

2-3 years ago, I would say LBJ hadn't quite matured into where we can definitively call him the best. But not anymore. He's the best player in the NBA and I don't believe any GM wouldn't start their team with him for one game to win the championship.

Honestly, one game, for the NBA title, you're starting your team with one player. You don't take LBJ without hesitation?
 
lebron is more physically dominant. passing used to be a huge advantage of his over kobe as well, but this season thats changed. Kobe is an amazing passer in his own right and lebron's passing has fallen off cuz his teammates are shit.


lol @ lebron being more clutch than kobe. thats too funny.
 
lol @ lebron being more clutch than kobe. thats too funny.

You think Kobe over the course of this season has made more big shots than LeBron James? You're kidding, right? You let me know which stat you want to go by. PPG in the 4Q? Number of game-tying or game-winning shots? Pick the stat, and LBJ crushes Kobe.
 
you think Kobe over the course of this season has made more big shots than LeBron James?

of course not, especially this season.

lebron is a one man team. im not doubting his ability to take over a game in the 4th.

but that doesn't mean he's more clutch than kobe. in a final shot scenario it would be crazy to choose lebron over kobe.
 
Tim Duncan most underrated sports figure that i can ever remember ... all this guy does is EVERYTHING !! including winning championships and does it all the while with class and dignity on and off the court. Starting to get into that top 5 to ever play the game category.
 
A couple of things to about Kobe versus LeBron state wise:

- LeBron attempts more shots than Kobe.
- LeBron takes a higher percentage of shots compared to his team than Kobe.
- LeBron plays more minutes than Kobe.
- Lakers have won more than thirty games I believe by 10+ points. Kobe has not played some entire 4th quarters. Cavs on the other hand had nowhere near as many blowouts which meant LeBron HAD to score more down the stretch.

Got the info from another site. And Killa, you're totally wrong if you think every GM would pick LeBron first for one game, even best player. Absolutely wrong, 100%. Not to forget that GM's have different styles and different things important to them, but it just isn't that easy. About defense: Kobe EVERY GAME takes the teams best perimeter player. LeBron doesn't always do that. On Team USA, Kobe did the same. You say also say that LeBron is simply "better at everything." Well scoring wise, only this year he overtook Kobe in that and that is partly due to Kobe taking less shots compared to the last several years. You think LeBron is a better shooter? OK, right. A better leader? What is your criteria for that? Because I can guarantee you if you ask Kobe's teammates what they think of him, you'll get VERY similar responses to that of LeBron's mates.

One last thing: I feel like every time I watch a Cavs game, they don't even run real plays. It's just LeBron clearouts and if there is nothing there he dumps it for an assist and or downlow for a bad shot attempt from Varejao or Wallace or Z or something. The Lakers actually run a offense, a very complex one. Kobe is setting screens and doing things for his team that people don't even think about half the fucking time. Why is LeBron so incredibly better in that sense again, please remind me?
 
There are only so many measurable factors to take into account. Defensively, Kobe is a bit more stealth, and Lebron is a better shot blocker and seems to have quicker reflexes. Offensively, Kobe seems to have more endurance in his legs, but not by much, and obviously has much better mechanics. Lebron is a bull and can post up just about any player if he wanted to. The only problem is that he's turnover prone, and once he gets trapped in that position it gets awkward. His ability to pass gets him out of trouble, but he really just isn't the best decision maker. Playing with Luke Walton and Lamar Odom for the past few years has made Kobe gunshy in those situations as well (fyi, Walton is one of the worst finishers in the league bar none.)

There's a lot to say, but I honestly don't know who I'd pick.

Sometimes I think Amare is the best player, sometimes I still think it's Duncan. Dwight Howard is impressive, and CP3 is an amazing starting point (pun). Lots to think about, but I've seen Kobe play an awful lot, and there's just some things that are intangible, unquantifiable, and flat out indescribable in his game. The guy really does remind me a lot of Jordan, and we all know where he stands.
 
I have never understood this award. Lebron brought a huge value increase to the Cavs, so perhaps he is valuable. Kobe brings huge money into LA, so perhaps he is valuable. How do you quantify how much better a defender either is, or how much better they make their teams...when each generally has a bunch of pussies around him. Kobe gets pissed on the defensive end because most of his team (up til now) has sucked ass - get Bynum in there with Pau, and get Fish on the other guard, and I guarantee you that defense becomes scary as a barnacle fuck, and Kobe's defense is going to be noticeably incredible, even for him. Lebron is simply worlds above the rest of the Cavs. Put Lebron on a team with some talent, and perhaps comparisons can be made......Lebron and Kobe aside.

If your criteria is performance, then how the hell can you consider Chris Paul while Deron Williams is alive and outperforming him?

so I vote this way:

1. Shane Battier
2. Bruce Bowen
3. Matt Harpring

defense wins championships, bitches.

:thumbsup:
 
Obviously for one jumper to win the game I would take KB. He's a better outside shooter, in fact he's the best mid-range shooter I've seen other than MJ.
 
I mean, Kobe is the most freakish scorer I've ever seen. The guy scored 81 points and 55 in a half. In another game he scored 62 in three quarters. He's a scoring freak. But over time, LeBron can score more because with his size, he doesn't have to work nearly as hard as Kobe does for buckets. He gets way more layups and dunks. On those drives to the hoop when defenders collapse, Kobe has to kick it out to a teammate, while LeBron can finish himself. How many game-winning, game-tying, or game-icing LAYUPS has LBJ had this season? Jordan and Kobe, it's always jumpers at the buzzer. LBJ just fucking goes to the hoop and gets a layup or dunk in the clutch, it's unheard of.

LeBron can be a defensive animal when they need him to. I remember one particular game at Sacramento this year. He pretty much chilled all game, then not only took over offensively in the last 2 minutes, but also decided to give Kevin Martin the sickest defensive lockdown he's ever seen. Martin was nervous, scared, intimidated, turning it over, getting stuffed, getting it stolen, etc, he couldn't even get a shot up. You get my point. Kobe gets lazy. Arenas dropped 60 on Kobe's face, Redd dropped 45.

2-3 years ago, I would say LBJ hadn't quite matured into where we can definitively call him the best. But not anymore. He's the best player in the NBA and I don't believe any GM wouldn't start their team with him for one game to win the championship.

Honestly, one game, for the NBA title, you're starting your team with one player. You don't take LBJ without hesitation?

excellent post
 
Perhaps you missed the last few games between the Jazz and Hornets?

both are beasts, Red. BEASTS. But this season has been all Paul. Ok Deron got a small upper hand in their h2h, but nothing to write home about.

Paul's season however, was phenomenal. Something basically unseen so far from such a young playmaker. He runs the floor with such confidence and when he's in the zone, he is making plays AT WILL. You limit down his passing options, he drops 35. And still gets to distribute it around, there is no stopping him.

No defense against that guy. Deron is great, top notch as well, those two will lead a new generation of basketball players FOR YEARS, esp when guys like Nash or Kidd retire (heck, they're running the show now and they're basically kids), but Paul has been something else this year.
 
Bill Simmons on MVP. Thought it was real good.

1. Kevin Garnett
Let's get the bad stuff out of the way so you don't think this is a homer vote: I don't think Garnett is the most talented player in the league; I don't trust him at the end of games because he gets too wound up; it drives me crazy that he relies on his fall-away so much (especially in fourth quarters); and I'd rather have Tim Duncan for a playoff series if my life depended on it. Of course, none of that stuff matters in an MVP discussion. He's the one guy everyone will remember from this regular season (sorry, Kobe) and he was worth a 30-win swing to the Celtics this season. In other words, he's the first choice for two of my three MVP questions.

But that's not why I'm picking him. On May 22, 2007, professional basketball was effectively murdered in Boston. Garnett transformed every single facet of the franchise upon his arrival, from playing for the Celtics to coaching them to following them to owning them to working for them. What he did can't be measured by statistics; it can't even be measured in a few paragraphs like the section you're reading right now. It would belittle what he did. He transformed the culture of the team. He taught everyone to care about defense, to care about practice, to care about being a professional, to care about leaving everything they had on the court, to stop caring about stats and start caring about wins. He single-handedly transformed the careers of three young players (Rajon Rondo, Leon Powe and Kendrick Perkins), one veteran (Pierce) and one coach (Doc Rivers), all five of whom could have gone the other way. He played every exhibition game like it was the seventh game of the Finals. During blowouts, he stood on the sidelines and cheered on his teammates like it was a tight game; because of that, the bench guys did the same thing for the starters and basically turned into a bunch of giddy scrubs on a 14-seed in a March Madness upset during every game.

The best word for him would either be "contagious" or "selfless." By Thanksgiving, the entire team was emulating him. Every time a young player got carried away with himself during a game -- like the time Perkins started going for his own stats or the time Rondo snapped at his coach -- KG was there to set him straight and scare the living hell out him. Every time one of his teammates was intimidated, KG had his back. Every time one of his teammates got knocked down, KG rushed over to pick him up; eventually, four teammates were rushing over to help that fifth guy up, and that's just the way it goes with the team now. Every time an opponent kept going for a shot after a whistle, KG defiantly blocked the shot just out of principle. Eventually, everyone started doing it. No shots after the whistle against the Celtics. That was the rule. It was a series of little things, baby steps if you will, but they added up to something much bigger.

You can't measure Garnett's impact with individual statistics, but these numbers seem pretty relevant: 24 (number of '07 Celtics wins); 16 (number of '08 Celtics losses); four (number of useful free agents who signed with Boston after the KG trade); 0 (number of useful free agents who signed with Boston in the 15 years before that); 10.2 (Boston's point differential this season, an historic number); three (number of Texas teams they beat on the road in a four-day span, as well as the Celtics' total number of double-digit defeats this season); 4,753 (estimated number of teammate hugs, shattering the record of the '84 Lakers); 42 (field-goal percentage for Boston opponents this season); 41 (number of home sellouts this season); and 3-to-2 (the Celtics' odds to win the 2008 title).

Look at the Celtics last season and look at them this season. Does any of the good stuff happen without Garnett? Any of it? Maybe his MVP campaign lost some steam when he missed 10 games earlier in the season; I have to admit, even I shifted my attention toward Kobe, Paul and LeBron these past two months. During a conversation with my father last weekend, I mentioned the MVP "argument" and he quickly responded with a fired-up rant that was very unlike my Pops. I'll do my best to paraphrase it:

"Argument? There's no argument, it's Garnett. I went to almost every home game. He's standing on the bench screaming for his teammates when we're up 30 points. He's a maniac! A few weeks ago, I couldn't go to a Wednesday night game so I put my tickets online and they sold in four minutes. Four minutes! Last year, I would have been walking around my office asking if anyone wanted to go, and I would have probably ended up eating the tickets. This year? Four minutes. Who did more for a team in one year? We lost 18 straight games last season. We were nothing. Didn't you watch the games? How could anyone be more valuable than KG was this season?"

It's a great question, and since I couldn't answer it without sounding like a fool, Kevin Garnett gets my MVP vote for 2007-08. Just remember, the "V" stands for "valuable."
 
I read it too earlier. I think Simmons was high when he wrote it. Haven't seen one valid point for the MVP race. Good Samaritan (I hope that it how it suppose to be written) of course. Great player, Great leader, but MVP???
Simmons has memory lapses. He remembers what the V stand for, but he obviously forget the M part. It was the great trio that did the job and by the way, Boston did the job even when Garnett was injured. I really don't understand Simmons, one of the best sports writers and this pick. Have I mentioned I believe he was high when he wrote this?
 
celtics still make the playoffs w/out garnett this season. you can't say the same about the lakers, hornets or cavs.
 
you didn't see one valid point for the mvp race? haha.. Did you read it?

Yeah, I read the whole thing (with all the candidates). First of all, I think that Pierce is the best player in the Celtics team. Garnett is the leader and gives it all when he is playing, but Pierce is the one that been there when Allen was injured and when Allen couldn't hit a three and he was there when Garnett was injured. Each time that Celtics needed the go to guy and a leader and that wasn't that many times in their great season, Pierce was the man I believe. I just can't see how you can choose one of the trio to be MVP. Than it becomes the best player from the best team, not most valuable player. I didn't agree with Dirk's win and Garnett isn't an option for me either. The funniest thing is that he made his rules on how to pick the MVP and in the end, picked Garnett that didn't fit them...

I believe this is a two horse race, Paul SMVPAKB and Kobe the MVP...
 
By the way, Garnett played 71 games and was involved in 14 out of the 16 losses.
In overall, 14 losses are 19.7183% of the 71 games, while the 16 losses from 82 games equal 19.512%. That means that with Garnett, Boston actually did worse than without him...
 
whateva divol, KG really supports his teammates! and the celtics sucked last year and this year they're really good......obviously KG is the only person that deserves any credit for the transformation...


i love that simmons ended the article on the rant of his homer dad. very credible.
 
both are beasts, Red. BEASTS. But this season has been all Paul. Ok Deron got a small upper hand in their h2h, but nothing to write home about.

Paul's season however, was phenomenal. Something basically unseen so far from such a young playmaker. He runs the floor with such confidence and when he's in the zone, he is making plays AT WILL. You limit down his passing options, he drops 35. And still gets to distribute it around, there is no stopping him.

No defense against that guy. Deron is great, top notch as well, those two will lead a new generation of basketball players FOR YEARS, esp when guys like Nash or Kidd retire (heck, they're running the show now and they're basically kids), but Paul has been something else this year.

I keep hearing how incredible his season was. Like he outperformed astronomically. He didn't.

CP3 had 11.6 assists/game.
Williams had 10.5 assists/game.

CP3 had 21.1 ppg.
Williams had 18.8 ppg.

Williams edged him on shooting percentage from the field and behind the arc.

New Orleans was 1 game out of first place in the west.
Utah was 3 games out of first place in the west.

We're not talking about a season which is far and away better than several other guys. He edged out Nash for assists. Good for him. He ranks 18th (in between Vince Carter and Al Jefferson) in ppg.

I'm not saying he's bad, but consider how folks are treating him like the roundball messiah when his numbers (and record) aren't messianic. Is it perhaps that we are surprised by these numbers? I am. Especially when the Paul's Hornets have managed 1 win against Deron's Jazz.

I think CP3 is very good. Perhaps he's great. But there's something manufactured about the MVP love for him. He really hasn't been better than Williams, and when they go h2h, he gets his ass handed to him repeatedly.

*shrug*

But as I said at the beginning of my comments, clearly I don't understand what this award means.
 
By the way, Garnett played 71 games and was involved in 14 out of the 16 losses.
In overall, 14 losses are 19.7183% of the 71 games, while the 16 losses from 82 games equal 19.512%. That means that with Garnett, Boston actually did worse than without him...

:36_11_6:
 
I keep hearing how incredible his season was. Like he outperformed astronomically. He didn't.

CP3 had 11.6 assists/game.
Williams had 10.5 assists/game.

CP3 had 21.1 ppg.
Williams had 18.8 ppg.

Williams edged him on shooting percentage from the field and behind the arc.

New Orleans was 1 game out of first place in the west.
Utah was 3 games out of first place in the west.

We're not talking about a season which is far and away better than several other guys. He edged out Nash for assists. Good for him. He ranks 18th (in between Vince Carter and Al Jefferson) in ppg.

I'm not saying he's bad, but consider how folks are treating him like the roundball messiah when his numbers (and record) aren't messianic. Is it perhaps that we are surprised by these numbers? I am. Especially when the Paul's Hornets have managed 1 win against Deron's Jazz.

I think CP3 is very good. Perhaps he's great. But there's something manufactured about the MVP love for him. He really hasn't been better than Williams, and when they go h2h, he gets his ass handed to him repeatedly.

*shrug*

But as I said at the beginning of my comments, clearly I don't understand what this award means.

Red, those are all valid points, however Jazz have been contenders for a while now. They've had occasional drops here and there, but the Hornets were nowhere near what they did this year. They also excelled in the big games throughout the season and are doing the same in the playoffs.

Basketball isn't just about numbers, Paul did have a great season and so did Deron, however...


Paul made all those guys A LOT better. Boozer and Kirilenko were big names last year as well. Chandler was nowhere near this form playing in the Windy City, Stojakovic was known as a sharp shooter who can't step up in the 4th quarter...

Let ReNew tell you more, but basically Paul's immense talent and skill made this team better, made all those players better. Of course Byron did a lot here as well, he's the master behind this project and has had to make a lot of good stuff in order for them to be where they are now.

That's just the impression I've had throughout the season, but that doesn't mean Deron is any worse than him.

Btw I think with time, they will have rather tied battles and there won't be any real edges when these two clash.
 
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