Coaching Carousel

Guys, there's plenty of very legitimate reasons to go after some of the stuff that went on during Dantonio's tenure. But you may want to lay off the steroid stuff because all of your favorite players (and mine) use them too. That's just petty.
 
B.A.R. said:
As I said in my longer post, the climate has changed. The 2013-2015 teams were built during the best recruiting conditions MSU has had in decades. A lot of those doors have closed. To add to my point ... The next coach will need to be ultra aggressive with Free Agency.
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I agree the climate is harder today and the cfb superpowers have really separated themselves from the rest of the pack so there is a definite ceiling for a school like MSU.

However, there's no reason they can't field consistently solid, top 25 ranked teams. And with a good coach there's no reason why they can't stay on equal footing as all other teams in the B1G East not named OSU.

The initial post was that it's hard for MSU "to make bowl games" which is asinine and not rooted in reality.
 
AliShaheed said:
Guys, there's plenty of very legitimate reasons to go after some of the stuff that went on during Dantonio's tenure. But you may want to lay off the steroid stuff because all of your favorite players (and mine) use them too. That's just petty.
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Oh, there is no doubt plenty do. At some places it's a lot bigger. That's all. It certainly doesn't help guys once in the NFL (talking about across the nation). I do know from an actual MSU person something happened end of 2018 and beginning of 2019 with regards to that with a lot of the defensive players. You could see certain guys looked smaller last year. Only one of them was dumb enough to get caught in-season though. Again, from a MSU grad/supporter. I was under the impression that all stopped 4-5 years ago when ESPN was on campus for Nassar and the other stuff snooping around.
 
AliShaheed said:
I agree the climate is harder today and the cfb superpowers have really separated themselves from the rest of the pack so there is a definite ceiling for a school like MSU.

However, there's no reason they can't field consistently solid, top 25 ranked teams. And with a good coach there's no reason why they can't stay on equal footing as all other teams in the B1G East not named OSU.

The initial post was that it's hard for MSU "to make bowl games" which is asinine and not rooted in reality.
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I don't think they can stay on foot with PSU and UM at all personally. I kinda look at the East like this. OSU has a 8 year run of historic recruiting. They are 100% a factory team (with Bama n Clemson--- and brief LSU, UGA and Barn appearances). PSU and UM are behind them and should look at beating them 1 outta every 4/5 years as a goal. The next level is MSU and IU who should look at basically needing perfect games to beat OSU and look to beat rivals PSU and UM once every 4 years. That leaves the garbage at the end of the division. Your placing overall in the division otherwise will be head to heads and moreso your crossover games (a few teams are stuck in bad cycles, a few are not).
 
TahoeLegend said:
AliSheedy points out the Spartans have won divisional titles, but that was before Harbaugh and Franklin arrived at their schools.
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Thanks for the dig at my name. You're quite the comedian. At least you're funnier than you are accurate with your info. It's almost as if you go out of your way to be wrong about absolutely everything.

MSU won a B1G championship in 2015 which is the same year Harbaugh began at michigan. Harbaugh lost to him that year. Franklin began his career at PSU in 2014. So you're wrong on both counts.

Dantonio is a combined 6-5 against harbaugh and franklin. The idea that he hasn't been able to compete with those coaches/schools is simply wrong.

Your assertion that MSU is a tough place to make a bowl game is simply not rooted in reality. Dantonio began at MSU in 2007 and since then he has led his team to a bowl game in 11 out of 12 seasons. Including 1 Rose Bowl victory, 1 playoff game appearance/ass whooping, and 2 NY6 games. His bowl record this past decade was 6-3.

No need to lash out at me because you can't get your shit straight.
 
B.A.R. said:
I don't think they can stay on foot with PSU and UM at all personally.
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It all depends on who they bring in as the next coach. I think it will be easier to make predictions when we see who's leading the way.

Dantonio basically gave up on the program for the last 2 years or so and the results on the field reflected that. I really don't think that's the "new normal". His musical chairs reshuffling act with his coaching staff this past offseason was bizarre and indicated that he just didn't give a shit.

Their program is very much at a crossroads right now and making a good hire is key.
 
detroit187 said:
Actually, I dont. I saw Lloyd Carr have an Eddie Bauer Explorer on my HS campus for a certain DE or 2 and QB/WR to show them what they will get if they go there. 2 did, one went to the U. Harbs has his dirt too, its just not to the level of Dantonio, who ran a rogue program with repeated offenders and abusers. That is not debatable.

Cole Chewins is exhibit 1,022 of the steroids case. Oh, he lives up the street for me. For many of us in MI, its so close you know somebody who knows somebody who knows something. As BAR has said for years, these arent isolated incidents. And we all knew he'd flee after the bonus and depositions.
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Fair enough.
 
AliShaheed said:
It all depends on who they bring in as the next coach. I think it will be easier to make predictions when we see who's leading the way.

Dantonio basically gave up on the program for the last 2 years or so and the results on the field reflected that. I really don't think that's the "new normal".

Their program is very much at a crossroads right now and making a good hire is key.
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Oh is it huge. That's the thing with coaching hires.... It's what you walk into. The new coach doesn't have time to recruit since today is NSD. That new coach is already behind on 2021 unless he has previous relationships with players. Dantonio left the cupboard pretty bare between lackluster recruiting, players kicked off team and transfers. Unless something magical happens in the portal next year this isn't a bowl eligible team unfortunately. Anywhere in the country the continuity factor is tough. Some transitions are simple (Meyer to FLA, Meyer to OSU, Lincoln to OU) and others take time as a new coach has to build a program up.
 
As far as MSU, take away the 2010-2015 era and look at 80 or 90 through now. That is their 'norm' IMO. Some spectacular years, some average years and some awful years.
 
I don't get why we talk in absolute terms regarding these programs. Hire the right coach and Michigan State can win plenty of games. What was Clemson before Dabo; how much did Alabama struggle before Saban.

I am a Miami fan and I remember when they were the dominate program in college football yet they have been irrelevant for nearly twenty years due to an apathetic administration and one embarrassing coaching hire after another. The success or failure of these programs is dependant on having a good AD and hiring the right coach to lead the program.

Lets face it you may need to have luck on your side as well. Dabo was a laughable hire at the time who just happened to work out beautifully and I doubt any LSU fans were excited about Orgeron.
 
I just really hope that Michigan State doesn't steal offensive genius Adam Gase away from the Jets. I am sure that @scarf31 is panicking at the thought of losing such an oustanding coach.
 
Very true about all that Brewers. Again, in this case...it's about luck because a top coach isn't going there. You gotta find a diamond in the rough(fwiw, all season MSU fans been calling for Bob Stoops, Campbell obv and Urban fwiw in addition to Fickell).
 
B.A.R. said:
Very true about all that Brewers. Again, in this case...it's about luck because a top coach isn't going there. You gotta find a diamond in the rough(fwiw, all season MSU fans been calling for Bob Stoops, Campbell obv and Urban fwiw in addition to Fickell).
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Bob Stoops isn't walking into that situation and I just don't understand all this love of Campbell. I am not saying that he is a bad coach but he is so incredibly overrated. Fickell would be a solid choice but I feel like he has a limited ceiling.
 
brewers888 said:
Bob Stoops isn't walking into that situation and I just don't understand all this love of Campbell. I am not saying that he is a bad coach but he is so incredibly overrated. Fickell would be a solid choice but I feel like he has a limited ceiling.
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I like Campbell a lot in all honesty (although his 4th gameplan in bowl game was real bad). He'll go somewhere big eventually. Fickell would be a good hire. He's improved as a coach it seems since the OSU interim year as they groomed Meyer. He has strong Ohio ties and hates Michigan. That's basically a much younger Dantonio. Sparty nation would be very happy with that.
 
brewers888 said:
I just really hope that Michigan State doesn't steal offensive genius Adam Gase away from the Jets. I am sure that @scarf31 is panicking at the thought of losing such an oustanding coach.
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Touché my friend...you were dead on and I admit that was a swing and a miss on my part....sigh...most boring uninteresting 7-9 year ever.
 
B.A.R. said:
Oh is it huge. That's the thing with coaching hires.... It's what you walk into. The new coach doesn't have time to recruit since today is NSD. That new coach is already behind on 2021 unless he has previous relationships with players. Dantonio left the cupboard pretty bare between lackluster recruiting, players kicked off team and transfers. Unless something magical happens in the portal next year this isn't a bowl eligible team unfortunately. Anywhere in the country the continuity factor is tough. Some transitions are simple (Meyer to FLA, Meyer to OSU, Lincoln to OU) and others take time as a new coach has to build a program up.
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Agreed, it's a clean up job and it will take a level of patience to get things turned around. Which is why a guy like Fickell will probably turn them down from what I'm hearing. He has a good thing at Cincy so he may not want to get started with a program overhaul.

But I think MSU's success over this past decade helps whomever takes over. It makes it a bit easier to sell the program to recruits.

A good coach can turn around a dire situation pretty quickly. Baylor would be a good example of this. I think they were in far worse shape than MSU is right now.
 
AliShaheed said:
Agreed, it's a clean up job and it will take a level of patience to get things turned around. Which is why a guy like Fickell will probably turn them down from what I'm hearing. He has a good thing at Cincy so he may not want to get started with a program overhaul.

But I think MSU's success over this past decade helps whomever takes over. It makes it a bit easier to sell the program to recruits.

A good coach can turn around a dire situation pretty quickly. Baylor would be a good example of this. I think they were in far worse shape than MSU is right now.
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Bold #1 That is a good point. A high school senior next year was 7-12 years old during their stretch which is the real impressionable years, no doubt.

Bold #2 Sparty may be a bit better, but it isn't great.
 
Btw, on Fickell...from this afternoon





“I have talked to nobody, and that’s the truth,” Fickell said. “Obviously I am very good friends with Mark Dantonio. I’ve stayed in contact with him. I have not communicated with anybody except Mark Dantonio in the last three to four weeks from Michigan State. I haven’t been thinking about it, haven’t been focused on it. We have five guys signed for us today. I was thankful I didn’t have to answer any questions because I didn’t talk to anyone.”

A follow up question broached the subject of Fickell’s players considering the whirlwind of coaching changes and how they affect recruiting classes.

“Well I had a couple of guys call last night,” Fickell said. “You get texts from your guys now. I said ‘hey we’re going to finish this thing up. What we discussed in recruiting hasn’t changed one bit.’ I’ve talked to nobody. I don’t know what’s going on and all I can tell you is what I know. Every one of our guys that has called, I’ve talked with. I think they trust and believe in what it is I’m telling and what it is what we’re doing.”
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With that being said, few MSU insiders saying it a done deal and this is spreading to Cincy/OSU/UM boards currently.

5 years 24 million was thrown around.

I saw two different mentions of Brian Hartline as OC.

Anyhoo, shall see.
 
AliShaheed said:
Guys, there's plenty of very legitimate reasons to go after some of the stuff that went on during Dantonio's tenure. But you may want to lay off the steroid stuff because all of your favorite players (and mine) use them too. That's just petty.
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It’s actually not. Actual steroids are an issue there. The whole “Dantonio takes 2-3 star skinny kids who are undersized and turns them into monsters and develops them” thing was very popular during their run. Of course, we all knew really what it was, many just had blinders on. It’s a way of life in the NFL, we know that’s why nobody gets popped.

Look know further than Cole Chewins, MSU starting LT who was hurt all year. Cole was rail skinny his senior year in high school, the idea he could be a LT at a big10 program was insane. Cole went to HS about 10 min from where I live, know many of the parents, teammates etc from the community. “They’ll just get him in the cycle” is what they all said. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist. Enhancers happen everywhere, no doubt. Old school roids were a way of survival at MSU.
 
TahoeLegend said:
You're right, BAR. Campbell has a better job now at Iowa State. AliSheedy points out the Spartans have won divisional titles, but that was before Harbaugh and Franklin arrived at their schools. It's harder now.

Iowa State is not an easy job, but it's an easier conference and he is on even footing with most of the schools. And he has a; good fan base that is loyal to the school and doesn't expect miracles.

Michigan State has had some very good periods over the years so I agree with Ali it's not impossible, but it's a tough job. Maybe they can find the next PJ Fleck, but I don't see a coach leaving a good Power 5 job for a move that is lateral at best
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I am convinced the #1 reason (other than steroids, not caring if a player is a criminal, can read etc to play) Sparty had success is because of the PSU sanctions during those 2012-2015 years. Were able to get a lot of kids because of it. One division is not big enough in a conference for 3-4 teams to be really good consistently. I’d say they benefited the most getting kids from PA and Ohio that would have gone to PSU during those years. He’ll, they almost pulled off Miles Sanders but PSU started to get good because of Saquon.
 
B.A.R. said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1225194276319113216
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B.A.R. said:
I don't think they can stay on foot with PSU and UM at all personally. I kinda look at the East like this. OSU has a 8 year run of historic recruiting. They are 100% a factory team (with Bama n Clemson--- and brief LSU, UGA and Barn appearances). PSU and UM are behind them and should look at beating them 1 outta every 4/5 years as a goal. The next level is MSU and IU who should look at basically needing perfect games to beat OSU and look to beat rivals PSU and UM once every 4 years. That leaves the garbage at the end of the division. Your placing overall in the division otherwise will be head to heads and moreso your crossover games (a few teams are stuck in bad cycles, a few are not).
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Great analysis. The script is flipped and whoever walks into MUS's job or any other Big Ten job other than those mentioned above are behind the eight ball. The recruiting to get top talent for lesser programs is insurmountable and will be tough to break the current cycle. PJ Fleck is proving it can be done, but not overnight. MSU needs a really good coach who can win within two years or they may never fill that cupboard that is almost empty. Not for awhile anyway. IMO
 
EAST LANSING — Michigan State plans to interview two candidates for its open head football coaching job this weekend, a source with knowledge of the search told the Free Press on Friday night.

The source spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the search.

Cincinnati coach Luke Fickell, considered the front-runner, and Colorado coach Mel Tucker each will meet with MSU’s search committee as they look to replace Mark Dantonio, who retired suddenly Tuesday after 13 seasons.
 
So, 0-3 so far....

Campbell and Saleh have said no.

Nard Dog eliminated himself from any consideration.
 
B.A.R. said:
So, 0-3 so far....

Campbell and Saleh have said no.

Nard Dog eliminated himself from any consideration.
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Heard Dantonio did this to leave them basically no choice but to retain his crew, specifically Tressell.
If they don’t land Fickell, who I’m not sold on but is probably best shot at this point of any relevance MD really screwed them. Odd a guy who has been such an important part of getting program back to relevance has done such damage the last few years, literally by himself.
 
detroit187 said:
Heard Dantonio did this to leave them basically no choice but to retain his crew, specifically Tressell.
If they don’t land Fickell, who I’m not sold on but is probably best shot at this point of any relevance MD really screwed them. Odd a guy who has been such an important part of getting program back to relevance has done such damage the last few years, literally by himself.
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Yeah, I heard the same story.

Other Sparty people say the Fickell stuff has been in works since the fall.

The last I read today is that he is like 70-30 to stay at Cincy.
 
B.A.R. said:
Yeah, I heard the same story.

Other Sparty people say the Fickell stuff has been in works since the fall.

The last I read today is that he is like 70-30 to stay at Cincy.
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I get big jobs come open, just patiently wait

But that is pretty wild to stay at Cinci over MSU
 
twinkie13 said:
I get big jobs come open, just patiently wait

But that is pretty wild to stay at Cinci over MSU
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Well,

Lets think about this...

He can leave and go there and make more money. It is a P5 team in the 1-A toughest division in the country.

Or,

He can stay at Cincy and ripped off a few more 10-11 win seasons, perhaps sneak into a New Years 6 Bowl game and then go get a really big boy job.

Thoughts?
 
B.A.R. said:
Well,

Lets think about this...

He can leave and go there and make more money. It is a P5 team in the 1-A toughest division in the country.

Or,

He can stay at Cincy and ripped off a few more 10-11 win seasons, perhaps sneak into a New Years 6 Bowl game and then go get a really big boy job.

Thoughts?
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If his agent is any good, now he has leverage. So get a raise at UC, be good 1-3 more years tops and get a better job that doesn’t have to contend with OSU M PSU just win division. Further, won’t have to contend with any sanctions, no matter how minimal they’ll be.
I’d have thought if Fickell was already done deal this would be over by now, not lining up Mel Tucker for an interview and have the look of a team scrambling now. Just my observation.
 
detroit187 said:
If his agent is any good, now he has leverage. So get a raise at UC, be good 1-3 more years tops and get a better job that doesn’t have to contend with OSU M PSU just win division. Further, won’t have to contend with any sanctions, no matter how minimal they’ll be.
I’d have thought if Fickell was already done deal this would be over by now, not lining up Mel Tucker for an interview and have the look of a team scrambling now. Just my observation.
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Well, he has a new contract he is signing with UC next week. I think he has a football clinic and something else this weekend, hence the wait(either way). I have no clue the money on it, etc.
 
B.A.R. said:
Well, he has a new contract he is signing with UC next week. I think he has a football clinic and something else this weekend, hence the wait(either way). I have no clue the money on it, etc.
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I just don’t get bringing in others for faux interview if Fickell is guy. Distasteful to do to other coaches. I guess Tucker would satisfy Rooney Rule lol
 
B.A.R. said:
Well,

Lets think about this...

He can leave and go there and make more money. It is a P5 team in the 1-A toughest division in the country.

Or,

He can stay at Cincy and ripped off a few more 10-11 win seasons, perhaps sneak into a New Years 6 Bowl game and then go get a really big boy job.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I dig it. Like I said, the waiting game seems to pay off more now. Wonder what would be available soon? He holding out for USC?
 
So, he's not going to meet with the selection committee. Fwiw, one of the MSU guys who said "done deal" regarding Fickell on Wednesday now says they are going to offer 5/25 to him.
 
B.A.R. said:
Chris Creighton? I saw someone saying Bielama as well.
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BB said he'd be interested. This is what its become, say youre interested and since no one wants the job, you may get it. This is fun. Dicktonio knew this would happen so Tressell would get job.
 
BB, Jim Mc...Creighton. If I'm Sparty I actually use the search firm you hired and get this next 'done deal' done right.
 
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