Coaching Carousel Thread Time...

braves said:
no, I feel like he is destined to be a fill in qb starter for whatever team is still looking for their franchise qb. Then after a couple of years he becomes a career backup
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man I dunno. Honestly don’t think I’d ever want him as a backup cause I don’t think he has the mentality to be a game manager. Imo that speaks to how much ability he has!
 
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2daBank said:
I’ve certainly been wrong before but I think Darnold’s talent is undeniable.
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I certainly don’t think any these prospects in this class have more potential than him (outside Lawrence). Maybe the lance kid as I’ve never seen him! From most accounts he sounds like the wild card!!
 
survive&advance said:
If Bienemy leaves KC, will the chiefs offense miss a beat?
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No but that not completely on EB. Their coaching staff has been a continuous next man up and the next man is Mike Kafka who is prob as close to Mahomes as anyone on staff. But despite what this thread has said EB is a huge part of the offense and play design. Jamaal Charles hasn’t been here in years and said just this week that EB is a huge part of the game planning.


CPA-hole said:
Any chance Reid retires after a SB win this year?
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None. Signed an extension mid season. And has made it clear he wants to stay.
 
survive&advance said:
So what value is he really bringing? What are you banking on him bringing to the table? Just hypotheticals, not asking you directly
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He brings nothing to the table besides placating a hungry media ready to pounce on the league for once again not hiring the "hottest" coordinator because he is black.
 
Capaholic said:
No but that not completely on EB. Their coaching staff has been a continuous next man up and the next man is Mike Kafka who is prob as close to Mahomes as anyone on staff. But despite what this thread has said EB is a huge part of the offense and play design. Jamaal Charles hasn’t been here in years and said just this week that EB is a huge part of the game planning.
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I always get the feeling guys don’t want to give EB any the credit and I hate to think of the reasons why this might be true as I like to think of everyone as good ppl!!!
 
2daBank said:
I see him as a kid who never had a fair shake. Gase woulda ruined every qb in that draft (I honestly don’t recall the QBs in that draft but still a good bet). You are to emotionally attached to come to any sort of unbiased opinion on this subject imo. No knock on you, it just human nature pal.

imo there no freaking chance Wilson worthy of the 2nd pick. I dunno what next years qb crop looks like but if darnold proves to be garbage under new leadership they should have the opportunity to pretty much get whoever they want considering their pick be top 5 along with the pick they will receive in return for this pick!! The only way I don’t see this strategy working out is if we don’t have a team or teams who fall in love with fields of Wilson, long as that happens which it should, it will bring jets a huge haul and set them up to be the biggest players in next 2 drafts!!!

Can i get you to agree darnold has more god given ability than
Tannehill ? Assuming that is the case it sure seems like dropping Gase for a guy who can run offense will allow him to make a huge leap!! Imo year 2 is generally the huge jump in a new offense but think we will see everything we would need and more to sign him to a extension, could even work out where ya end up getting him in the 100 mil for 4-5 year range which could be a steal!!! Imo even if darnold doesn’t become the franchise qb he capable of becoming jets will still be set up in great shape with cap space and draft equity! Just feels like the absolute right move to me!! Unless they 100% sold wilson is the guy, which I have no clue how that be the case!!
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Yes I think that Darnold is more talented than Tannehill who I still think is trash but at some point you have to show something. If this was year one I would excuse it. After 3 years its time to move on.

Yes Gase was a complete disgrace and Darnold certainly never had weapons like Mahomes but after 3 years of quite honestly showing nothing he has to shoulder the blame. At least if there were signs of him playing well I would understand the desire to stick wih him but I don't think he played well once all season. Terrible coaching or not every QB by this time in their development has to at least show signs of greatness and Darnold flat out hasn't.
 
I’m so firm on Darnold. Very confident in saying Lawrence the only one of this years crop who might turn out better, assuming they all get the same chance (obviously it never be a equal playing field with various coaches and talent around them but long as they all get the playing time and have competent coaches). Lance be the one unknown, not sure how any of us can know much bout him? I think he be the one guy id understand taking at 2! Rather have the unknown than the others I’ve seen and don’t think worth the 2nd pick! Assuming he shows out with the measurable qualities, arm strength, speed, ability to do work at the chalk board, etc etc. plus they gonna get such a huge haul for that 2nd pick!! Way more value in that haul than drafting a game manager type I see Wilson as.
 
KJ said:
He's already better than Tannehill but on the wrong team. Def better than the other QBs in the draft although Lance is an outlier and WC offense will be perfect for him. I don't care either way but hope for his sake he gets traded to competency from that mess.
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Not meaning to attack you but have you actually watched Darnold play since entering the league and if the answer is yes what positives have you seen. He was the lowest rated QB in the league in his third year and had an embarrasingly low 9 TD passes.
 
brewers888 said:
All signs from the media point to them not doing that but its the right move provided that QB is Wilson.
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I can't imagine this happening , if the QB they draft bust so be it, its happens all the time, but if they pass on one that becomes elite, that's hard to live down. This would take some balls from Ownership/GM
 
2daBank said:
that exactly what I been trying to say. Tannenhill was just example since we saw his leap after Gase, nothin to do with talent levels. Also agree I have no clue on the kid we havnt got to see play! If he anywhere close to things ive heard about him then this debate irrelevant and jets should grab him and don’t look back!!
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Lance is a run first QB and like Fields has no business being discussed in the first round.
 
KJ said:
Hell I liked Rosen lol but still think David Carr coulda been awesome if he didn't go to an expansion team. Situations kinda matter in a game where you get pulverized for a living.
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I remember you liking Rosen. It happens after all I was very high on Darnold and was wrong.
 
brewers888 said:
Not meaning to attack you but have you actually watched Darnold play since entering the league and if the answer is yes what positives have you seen. He was the lowest rated QB in the league in his third year and had an embarrasingly low 9 TD passes.
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Can’t speak for KJ but I dont think any of us feel attacked! We just having a civil discussion where we obviously disagree! I have no doubt you have probably watched more jets than rest of us combined which really shocks me to hear you havnt seen some the darnold plays where he pops off the screen cause i have! So many times I’ve seen it with his arms and legs, in fairness I’ve seen many a time he makes awful decisions as well, many where he forces instead of taking the obvious right play. Those just show me how much confidence he has in his ability tho, things that Can be coached out.
 
I liked Rosen more than Darnold, he clearly had the talent ( I think), had to be mental with him
 
2daBank said:
I always get the feeling guys don’t want to give EB any the credit and I hate to think of the reasons why this might be true as I like to think of everyone as good ppl!!!
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I don't give any offensive coordinators credit who don't call the plays.
 
2daBank said:
I’m so firm on Darnold. Very confident in saying Lawrence the only one of this years crop who might turn out better, assuming they all get the same chance (obviously it never be a equal playing field with various coaches and talent around them but long as they all get the playing time and have competent coaches). Lance be the one unknown, not sure how any of us can know much bout him? I think he be the one guy id understand taking at 2! Rather have the unknown than the others I’ve seen and don’t think worth the 2nd pick! Assuming he shows out with the measurable qualities, arm strength, speed, ability to do work at the chalk board, etc etc. plus they gonna get such a huge haul for that 2nd pick!! Way more value in that haul than drafting a game manager type I see Wilson as.
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Wilson has the best arm strength in the draft. If he busts it won't be because he is a game manager.
 
brewers888 said:
Lance is a run first QB and like Fields has no business being discussed in the first round.
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He's certainly not run first lol, it's something he can do when things break down which is ideal these days. He completed 67% in the year he started all games...no doubt there's some question but where isn't there? I'd take him over Wilson, I saw Wilson play a ton of games this year, kinda know what you get there and I get it that you're high on him. I'm high on him as a quality CFB QB at BYU.
 
brewers888 said:
Wilson has the best arm strength in the draft. If he busts it won't be because he is a game manager.
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game manager doesn’t mean bad or bust in my book, just doesn’t make him worthy of a top 5 pick imo. I just think ya’ll way to high on him, of course Baker went 1 and I think they fairly similar.
 
braves said:
I liked Rosen more than Darnold, he clearly had the talent ( I think), had to be mental with him
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I had them ranked Darnold, Mayfield, Allen with both Rosen and Jackson being busts. Allen was the most talented with the biggest chance of completely flopping and Mayfield was the steadiest without the upside.
 
2daBank said:
i feel as if some you guys act like he doesn’t do anything besides hold the freaking clip board!! I have very little doubt he a intricate part of game planning, why else would he be there?
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Go someone else and call the plays and then he has something to show. I would say that for any offensive coach who isn't calling plays.
 
KJ said:
He's certainly not run first lol, it's something he can do when things break down which is ideal these days. He completed 67% in the year he started all games...no doubt there's some question but where isn't there? I'd take him over Wilson, I saw Wilson play a ton of games this year, kinda know what you get there and I get it that you're high on him. I'm high on him as a quality CFB QB at BYU.
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I have very little doubt Wilson perception of how athletic he believes he is will get him in a ton of trouble at this level!!
 
Instead of implying what you are, could it be like Pete Carmichael in NO?
Yea he’s the OC but it’s Payton’s offense.
I’m not privy to the situation in KC as well as others though perhaps
 
brewers888 said:
He's no less athletic than Rodgers and plays a similar game.
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you gotta chill with that comparison cause quite honestly it insane! Maybe Rodgers now, but Rodgers doesn’t do a whole lot of running around these days. Younger Rodgers was more athletic, wilson doesn’t have nearly the ability to let it rip from all those arm angles, and his arm nowhere close to Rodgers. We watched completely different games when I hear you compare Wilson to the mvp!! Pretty much all our disagreements I respect your side and think you make valid arguments but this one feels like you smoking crack buddy!

if I didn’t like you so much I almost want jets to draft wilson so you can be in agony for 5 years waiting for Wilson to look like one the greatest of all time!
 
twinkie13 said:
Instead of implying what you are, could it be like Pete Carmichael in NO?
Yea he’s the OC but it’s Payton’s offense.
I’m not privy to the situation in KC as well as others though perhaps
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Pete Carmichael is a perfect example. I think he has been the OC for years yet he never calls the plays. If he wants to be a head coach he should be a coordinator and call plays elsewhere.
 
2daBank said:
you gotta chill with that comparison cause quite honestly it insane! Maybe Rodgers now, but Rodgers doesn’t do a whole lot of running around these days. Younger Rodgers was more athletic, wilson doesn’t have nearly the ability to let it rip from all those arm angles, and his arm nowhere close to Rodgers. We watched completely different games when I hear you compare Wilson to the mvp!! Pretty much all our disagreements I respect your side and think you make valid arguments but this one feels like you smoking crack buddy!

if I didn’t like you so much I almost want jets to draft wilson so you can be in agony for 5 years waiting for Wilson to look like one the greatest of all time!
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He's not Rodgers who I think is the best ever but he plays a similar style and is just as athletic. I would definitely bet on him being a great NFL QB and a definite upgrade from Darnold.
 
brewers888 said:
He's not Rodgers who I think is the best ever but he plays a similar style and is just as athletic. I would definitely bet on him being a great NFL QB and a definite upgrade from Darnold.
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we gonna have to revisit this one down the road!! Lol. I don’t think he be a “bust” as in terrible, just think he be more game manager than superstar.
 
2daBank said:
we gonna have to revisit this one down the road!! Lol. I don’t think he be a “bust” as in terrible, just think he be more game manager than superstar.
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Alex Smith is a game manager. Wilson is a gunslinger and guys like that make it big or bust.
 
Wilson had inflated stats due to playing a high school schedule this year. Most of their games were scrimmages. His overinflated belief in his arm will lead to picks at the next level. I'll be back to admit I was wrong if he proves it but I doubt I will be.
 
brewers888 said:
Alex Smith is a game manager. Wilson is a gunslinger and guys like that make it big or bust.
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There no more to say buddy, we see that kid completely differently. I just don’t think he faced the competition level for us to know. He was very Tua-ish in the fact his team was mostly dominating the teams they faced so he was under very little pressure to perform/throw into tight windows., I’d point to how poorly he was vs coastal but im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that was terrible coaching more than on him, being the fair guy I am!!!:)
 
A GM taking him at #2 would have a lot of explaining to do. I think the best thing for Wilson would to go late first round to a good team with an aging QB that he could learn from from 2-3 years. That's the Rodgers model.

You brought up Alex Smith....he was thrown to lions on a shitty team and had a new OC six years running I believe. He had two HC's that took no responsibility and blamed him for their inadequacies. I bet Smith would had loved to fall to GB and enter the league the way Rodgers did. KJ said it best, it really depends on the situation as to how these QB's pan out. Putting Wilson out there with the current Jets team will lead to disaster.
 
Two Utes said:
A GM taking him at #2 would have a lot of explaining to do. I think the best thing for Wilson would to go late first round to a good team work an aging QB that he could learn from from 2-3 years. That's the Rodgers model.

You brought up Alex Smith....he was thrown to lions on a shitty team and had a new OC did years running I believe. He had two HC's that took no responsibility and blamed him for their inadequacies. I bet Smith would had loved to fall to GB and enter the league the way Rodgers did. KJ said it best, it really depends on the situation as to how these QB's pan out. Putting Wilson out there with the current Jets team will lead to disaster.
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couldn’t agree more., I think 80% these kids the situation they land in dictates their career every bit as much as talent does. There only a handful of transformational guys it simply doesn’t matter. No way in hell is Wilson in that category. Lawrence really the only one in this draft, amd even then who knows? Do we think mahomes a SB MVP if he went to Jacksonville? Lol, probably not!!
 
Two Utes said:
A GM taking him at #2 would have a lot of explaining to do. I think the best thing for Wilson would to go late first round to a good team with an aging QB that he could learn from from 2-3 years. That's the Rodgers model.

You brought up Alex Smith....he was thrown to lions on a shitty team and had a new OC six years running I believe. He had two HC's that took no responsibility and blamed him for their inadequacies. I bet Smith would had loved to fall to GB and enter the league the way Rodgers did. KJ said it best, it really depends on the situation as to how these QB's pan out. Putting Wilson out there with the current Jets team will lead to disaster.
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IM not sure there is much of a different path for Alex Smith then the one that he had.

He was coached by Andy Reid , that was his ceiling and it was average to above average.
 
braves said:
IM not sure there is much of a different path for Alex Smith then the one that he had.

He was coached by Andy Reid , that was his ceiling and it was average to above average.
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Andy Reid happened his 7th or 8th year in the league. I'm talking about how different his career would had been had it not started as it did.
 
2daBank said:
couldn’t agree more., I think 80% these kids the situation they land in dictates their career every bit as much as talent does. There only a handful of transformational guys it simply doesn’t matter. No way in hell is Wilson in that category. Lawrence really the only one in this draft, amd even then who knows? Do we think mahomes a SB MVP if he went to Jacksonville? Lol, probably not!!
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Bingo
 
Two Utes said:
Andy Reid happened his 7th or 8th year in the league. I'm talking about how different his career would had been had it not started as it did.
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fair point

I don't think it would have been much different is what Im saying....He is limited in what he can do, Reid is an aggressive play caller , the chiefs were limited with Smith
 
Understood but he was what he was by that time. I'm not saying he'd be Tom Brady but he was scared to death to make a mistake after those two meatheads Nolan and Singletary were finished with him.
 
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