Chip Kelly Fired

Anyway, I think Chip can probably coach a little bit. He elevated a Pac 12 program, and went 20-12 in his first two years in the NFL, wheels came off. Ideally he'd coach and work in concert with a GM, they're both time-consuming jobs. Have to wonder what his shelf life is wherever he goes, his players haven't really had the greatest things to say about him, and he leaves a trail of blazing bridges wherever he trods.
 
tipyerbartender said:
A lot of the Belichick guys have excelled at the college level, old days and new days. Almost none of them have charming personalities. His staff in Cleveland was amazing in retrospect, Saban, Ferentz, that Fox guy who had a run at Fresno. All successful bores, but good football minds.
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Great football minds but they work together. Chip has seemed to want to do everything on his own. That's not going to work where ever he goes in the NFL
 
nbafan88 said:
If you guys are going to judge me based on my handle, you guys are absolute fools. Grow the fuck up. If you guys are allowed to post your opinions, i'm allowed to post mine. I've had dudley blocked for months, all i see are his quoted replies.

Would you like me to change my handle? You guys are just ridiculous.
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How about we just judge it based on the fact you've never played nor coached football? I couldn't care less about your handle, that was more of a joke than anything. I just don't understand how people who haven't ever played or coached the game can make any type of informed opinions on how good or bad a coach is. It literally makes no sense. The same thing goes for the idiots in the media...a majority of them don't know a god-damned thing about the sport they cover.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Anyway, I think Chip can probably coach a little bit. He elevated a Pac 12 program, and went 20-12 in his first two years in the NFL, wheels came off. Ideally he'd coach and work in concert with a GM, they're both time-consuming jobs. Have to wonder what his shelf life is wherever he goes, his players haven't really had the greatest things to say about him, and he leaves a trail of blazing bridges wherever he trods.
Click to expand...

Outside of Philly just now, where did he leave a trail of blazing bridges?
 
I think he's going to the Titans. Sometimes, once in a while, the obvious actually happens. Nashville is not a bad spot to land in life.
 
tipyerbartender said:
I think Oregon's still mad at him. Haslam had a handshake deal. There's two.
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lol. Wouldn't he have actually had to be in Cleveland to burn bridges? There were no bridges to burn. Pretty sure everyone in Oregon knew he was leaving at some point. Maybe they're "mad" at him though, I don't know that. I'm assuming you don't know that for a fact either.
 
Lareux said:
How about we just judge it based on the fact you've never played nor coached football? I couldn't care less about your handle, that was more of a joke than anything. I just don't understand how people who haven't ever played or coached the game can make any type of informed opinions on how good or bad a coach is. It literally makes no sense. The same thing goes for the idiots in the media...a majority of them don't know a god-damned thing about the sport they cover.
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So would you like only people who have been NFL coaches to discuss this topic on CTG? Ok. That makes sense.

Some of you guys have had a problem with me for years. I really don't know what I did to affect your lives that much but i apologize if I hurt your feelings. Not talking about you Laruex, I know you're just playing CTG police
 
Refresh my memory on the cloud of NCAA scrutiny Chip walked from ... thought it was rather imposing.
 
nbafan88 said:
So would you like only people who have been NFL coaches to discuss this topic on CTG?

Some of you guys have had a problem with me for years. I really don't know what I did to affect your lives that much but i apologize if I hurt your feelings. Not talking about you Laruex, I know you're just playing CTG police
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No, not at all. What I would like is for us to discuss based on what WE know. We see the records, we see the stats. You want to discount all of that and base things on your "eye test." Your eye test doesn't mean a damn thing. If you want to bring in other things that only insiders, or those with much greater knowledge of the game would know you should be called out for it.

I understand you get most of the info from the media as well, so it's not you in particular I'm talking about. The media members don't know jack shit either. They all have agendas and simply give their opinions on things. The entire sports landscape has changed, and it's pretty horrible these days. Players are pampered little bitches who get their way or pout, they don't accept any responsibility at all, and the coaches are always the fall guys. The expectations set forth these days for coaches/teams/etc are just insanely ridiculous.
 
Lar, he's an abrasive personality. Like Rex Ryan. Maybe one day, they can combine forces and rule the universe, but until then, they're two assholes who bop around and don't win the last game.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Lar, he's an abrasive personality. Like Rex Ryan. Maybe one day, they can combine forces and rule the universe, but until then, they're two assholes who bop around and don't win the last game.
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Tip. lots and lots and lots of NFL coaches are exactly what you just described. Many of them have and do win championships. Vince Lombardi....lets hear your thoughts on him...you think he was just some fun loving dude who fucked around all the time and let the players run the roost? How about Bellichick? How about Coughlin? How about Bill Cowher?

And Rex Ryan is a horrible example for this. He's beloved by his players. He is the prototypical "players coach."
 
tipyerbartender said:
In the end, Phil Knight convinced the NCAA to "think it over".
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Nice cop out. So.....nothing happened. He didn't leave some trail of blazing bridges after all. And he certainly didn't in Cleveland since he didn't actually coach there. You are right though, he did do that in Philly. So there's one.
 
Lareux said:
Tip. lots and lots and lots of NFL coaches are exactly what you just described. Many of them have and do win championships. Vince Lombardi....lets hear your thoughts on him...you think he was just some fun loving dude who fucked around all the time and let the players run the roost? How about Bellichick? How about Coughlin? How about Bill Cowher?

And Rex Ryan is a horrible example for this. He's beloved by his players. He is the prototypical "players" coach.
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Those guys have managed to not bop around like pinballs. Old dudes with a handful of HC jobs over decades.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Those guys have managed to not bop around like pinballs. Old dudes with a handful of HC jobs over decades.
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But they're the same personality you just described. That was the point. Seems that that type of personality certainly can, and does, work in the NFL. It's not fucking little loop football. If you want to make millions and win championships, you may just have to understand that you may have a coach you don't "like."
 
tipyerbartender said:
For the amusement of the forum, list Rex Ryan's credentials.
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I'm not defending Rex Ryan, why would I need to do that? I just said he's not the abrasive personality you just said he was. He's the goofball who fucks around with the media, makes bold proclamations, and has his players back (to a fault).

I've said this many times before....lots of guys are great coordinators and not great head coaches. Rex probably fits into that category. He's had some pretty damn good success as a DC in this league.
 
Lareux said:
But they're the same personality you just described. That was the point. Seems that that type of personality certainly can, and does, work in the NFL. It's not fucking little loop football. If you want to make millions and win championships, you may just have to understand that you may have a coach you don't "like."
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It's not just the players. The Ryans always bounce because everyone above and below gets sick of them.
 
nbafan88 said:
Michael Irving talking on the radio right now saying not one player came out to have Chip Kelly's back once while he was with the Eagles. He came in guns blazing with everyone afraid of him but fear only lasts so long. You need to get respect and Chip failed.
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Emmanuel Acho has come out and said that he would 100% hire/want Chip as his coach. There were a few unnamed players yesterday who were upset with the firing as well.

Later in the program, Acho stated that if he were a general manager, he would hire Kelly as a head coach if he got the chance. "A hundred percent. At the end of the day, if you look at his last I think seven years went Rose Bowl, Rose Bowl, National Championship, Rose Bowl, NFC East champion, 10-6 missed the playoffs, and now 6-9," Acho said. "At the end of the day, you know he's going to turn it around wherever he goes. I mean, he's going to be successful. It's a matter of sustained success and in the NFL, you have to win the big one. That's what it comes down to. But would I bring in Chip Kelly? A hundred percent."

I'd imagine as the smoke clears we'll hear more about who did and didn't like Chip. It's no secret that many of them didn't, or at least have insinuated as much in the media. Until they're no longer on the Eagles themselves, it's tough to know if the truth is going to come out though. Most players want to just agree with teammates (whether they really do or not) so as not to cause some rift in the locker room. I'd imagine there are plenty of players on the Eagles who liked what Kelly was doing, and appreciated the effort put into it, and didn't mind being pushed the way they evidently were.

Acho also defended Kelly when it came to allegations made by LeSean McCoy and others (like former assistant coach Tra Thomas). "I just think some issues were often blown out of proportion when you have guys like LeSean McCoy come out and make some bold remarks, but you're talking about emotional players," Acho said. "But things often got misconstrued as far as Chip being painted in a bad light."
 
This backs up a fair amount of what NBA was saying about players not liking Chip Kelly


Eagles CEO: Chip Kelly didn't push to keep coaching job






Philadelphia Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie talks to reporters during an NFL football press conference, Wednesday, Dec. 30, 2015, in Philadelphia. The Eagles fired head coach Chip Kelly with one game left in his third season. (AP Photo/Michael Perez)
See Also

Eagles fire coach Chip Kelly with 1 game left in 3rd season



Why the Eagles fired Chip Kelly



The Philadelphia Eagles fired Chip Kelly and apparently players got the news on Twitter
In the end, Chip Kelly created a poor culture and a beatable scheme.
A day after firing Chip Kelly, CEO Jeffrey Lurie made it clear he wants a coach who can relate to his players and everyone else in the building.
"You've got to open your heart to players and everybody you want to achieve peak performance," Lurie said Wednesday. "I would call it a style of leadership that values information and all of the resources that are provided and at the same time values emotional intelligence. I think in today's world, a combination of all those factors creates the best chance to succeed."
Kelly didn't have close relationships with many of his players, and former Eagles running back LeSean McCoy and cornerback Brandon Boykin were critical of his personality after he traded them.
Lurie said he wants "someone who interacts and communicates very clearly with everyone he works with."
Eagles right tackle Lane Johnson, who was Kelly's first draft pick, said his former coach was considered "unapproachable" by many players.
"I want to see a guy who really cares about his players and isn't so set in his ways so we can all go in the same direction," Johnson said. "I think Chip had good intentions. I just think that he didn't have a good way to go about it, and sometimes it came off a little bit standoffish toward y'all. That's just his way. I don't know if he had anybody to confide in but I think all in all, I know he cared about the players."
Rich Schultz/GettyImages​
Kelly was fired after missing the playoffs for the second straight season and failing in his first year in charge of personnel. The Eagles entered the season with Super Bowl expectations, but are 6-9.
Players prepared for the season finale at the New York Giants on Sunday with offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur serving as interim coach, largely going about business as usual.
"I had a good relationship with Chip. We communicated well together and maybe that was just me," linebacker Connor Barwin said. "Obviously you want a great leader, you want somebody that knows the game obviously very well, someone that can relate to the players, somebody the players can trust."
Quarterback Sam Bradford, who could be a free agent after the season, said he still wants to return next year despite all the uncertainty.
"Chip was great to me. It's tough to lose him," Bradford said.
Lurie said he decided to fire Kelly before the end of the season to get a jump start on a coaching search and meet with players to talk to them about the decision. He said he met with players as a group on Wednesday and had smaller meetings planned with them later in the day.
"It was a clear and important decision that had to be made," he said, adding that he didn't offer to keep Kelly on as the coach and strip him of personnel control.
Howie Roseman, who was general manager before Kelly insisted on making all the decisions, will remain in his role as the executive vice president of football operations and oversee the personnel department headed by Tom Donahoe. The former Bills and Steelers GM is the new senior director of player personnel.
Lurie doesn't plan to hire a GM. Roseman, Donahoe and the new head coach will manage the roster with a "collaborative" effort, he said.
AP​
Despite a losing record, the Eagles could have won the NFC East by finishing 8-8. But they were eliminated with a loss at home to Washington on Saturday.
Lurie said he fired Kelly based on an assessment of the last three years, not a string of recent losses.
"It was more the lack of progress and the trajectory where we were going," he said.
Lurie acknowledged giving Kelly full control of personnel decisions last January was a mistake. Lurie said for the first time that Kelly demanded full control so he gave it to him so he would be "accountable for his decisions." Until this point, Kelly had said it was Lurie's decision — not his — to oversee all player moves.
Kelly quickly tore apart a winning team and made several bold moves that backfired.
Since March 2014, Kelly released three-time Pro Bowl wide receiver DeSean Jackson, traded McCoy, didn't re-sign 2014 Pro Bowl wideout Jeremy Maclin, cut two-time Pro Bowl guard Evan Mathis and traded quarterback Nick Foles and a 2016 second-round draft pick for Bradford.
Tony Gutierrez/ApImages​
He also gave big money in free agency to running back DeMarco Murray and cornerback Byron Maxwell. Murray has been a bust and Maxwell has underperformed. Kelly even signed Tim Tebow, but released him after he won the competition for the No. 3 quarterback job.
Philadelphia missed the postseason in 2014 following a 9-3 start and were 7-12 in Kelly's last 19 games.
Kelly famously said on the sideline during a rout over the Giants in October 2014: "Culture will beat scheme every day."
It turns out players lost faith in his innovative approach and defenses caught up to his up-tempo offense.


 
P-Unit said:
This backs up a fair amount of what NBA was saying about players not liking Chip Kelly


Eagles CEO: Chip Kelly didn't push to keep coaching job






Philadelphia Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie talks to reporters during an NFL football press conference, Wednesday, Dec. 30, 2015, in Philadelphia. The Eagles fired head coach Chip Kelly with one game left in his third season. (AP Photo/Michael Perez)
See Also

Eagles fire coach Chip Kelly with 1 game left in 3rd season



Why the Eagles fired Chip Kelly



The Philadelphia Eagles fired Chip Kelly and apparently players got the news on Twitter
In the end, Chip Kelly created a poor culture and a beatable scheme.
A day after firing Chip Kelly, CEO Jeffrey Lurie made it clear he wants a coach who can relate to his players and everyone else in the building.
"You've got to open your heart to players and everybody you want to achieve peak performance," Lurie said Wednesday. "I would call it a style of leadership that values information and all of the resources that are provided and at the same time values emotional intelligence. I think in today's world, a combination of all those factors creates the best chance to succeed."
Kelly didn't have close relationships with many of his players, and former Eagles running back LeSean McCoy and cornerback Brandon Boykin were critical of his personality after he traded them.
Lurie said he wants "someone who interacts and communicates very clearly with everyone he works with."
Eagles right tackle Lane Johnson, who was Kelly's first draft pick, said his former coach was considered "unapproachable" by many players.
"I want to see a guy who really cares about his players and isn't so set in his ways so we can all go in the same direction," Johnson said. "I think Chip had good intentions. I just think that he didn't have a good way to go about it, and sometimes it came off a little bit standoffish toward y'all. That's just his way. I don't know if he had anybody to confide in but I think all in all, I know he cared about the players."
Rich Schultz/GettyImages​
Kelly was fired after missing the playoffs for the second straight season and failing in his first year in charge of personnel. The Eagles entered the season with Super Bowl expectations, but are 6-9.
Players prepared for the season finale at the New York Giants on Sunday with offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur serving as interim coach, largely going about business as usual.
"I had a good relationship with Chip. We communicated well together and maybe that was just me," linebacker Connor Barwin said. "Obviously you want a great leader, you want somebody that knows the game obviously very well, someone that can relate to the players, somebody the players can trust."
Quarterback Sam Bradford, who could be a free agent after the season, said he still wants to return next year despite all the uncertainty.
"Chip was great to me. It's tough to lose him," Bradford said.
Lurie said he decided to fire Kelly before the end of the season to get a jump start on a coaching search and meet with players to talk to them about the decision. He said he met with players as a group on Wednesday and had smaller meetings planned with them later in the day.
"It was a clear and important decision that had to be made," he said, adding that he didn't offer to keep Kelly on as the coach and strip him of personnel control.
Howie Roseman, who was general manager before Kelly insisted on making all the decisions, will remain in his role as the executive vice president of football operations and oversee the personnel department headed by Tom Donahoe. The former Bills and Steelers GM is the new senior director of player personnel.
Lurie doesn't plan to hire a GM. Roseman, Donahoe and the new head coach will manage the roster with a "collaborative" effort, he said.
AP​
Despite a losing record, the Eagles could have won the NFC East by finishing 8-8. But they were eliminated with a loss at home to Washington on Saturday.
Lurie said he fired Kelly based on an assessment of the last three years, not a string of recent losses.
"It was more the lack of progress and the trajectory where we were going," he said.
Lurie acknowledged giving Kelly full control of personnel decisions last January was a mistake. Lurie said for the first time that Kelly demanded full control so he gave it to him so he would be "accountable for his decisions." Until this point, Kelly had said it was Lurie's decision — not his — to oversee all player moves.
Kelly quickly tore apart a winning team and made several bold moves that backfired.
Since March 2014, Kelly released three-time Pro Bowl wide receiver DeSean Jackson, traded McCoy, didn't re-sign 2014 Pro Bowl wideout Jeremy Maclin, cut two-time Pro Bowl guard Evan Mathis and traded quarterback Nick Foles and a 2016 second-round draft pick for Bradford.
Tony Gutierrez/ApImages​
He also gave big money in free agency to running back DeMarco Murray and cornerback Byron Maxwell. Murray has been a bust and Maxwell has underperformed. Kelly even signed Tim Tebow, but released him after he won the competition for the No. 3 quarterback job.
Philadelphia missed the postseason in 2014 following a 9-3 start and were 7-12 in Kelly's last 19 games.
Kelly famously said on the sideline during a rout over the Giants in October 2014: "Culture will beat scheme every day."
It turns out players lost faith in his innovative approach and defenses caught up to his up-tempo offense.
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Yeah, we've all heard all of this for quite some time. I'm not sure anyone tried to dispute that some (maybe most) of the Eagles didn't like Chip for one reason or another. As I said, let's give it some time and let all of the reactions come out to see what's actually true and what isn't. Also, again, many players just back their teammates regardless of what they say because that's what teammates do. It seemed pretty clear that Chip had worn out his welcome in Philly. Most of that animosity was caused by the moves he made as GM. Even if they bring up things like tough practices, etc...it really started getting louder after certain players were traded/released.

Everyone loved him after the first season when they went 10-6 and made the playoffs. I remember reading one article in particular before his 2nd season where players praised Chip for how he went about things...one of the loudest was....yep, Shady McCoy. McCoy had two unbelievable seasons with Chip running the offense he played in...then he got butt hurt that he was traded and decided to call Chip a racist (which was fucking laughable, at best) and act as if Chip was this demon of a coach or something. That's clearly just someone who's frustrated/hurt/upset who was just venting and making stuff up, and Shady still holds the grudge over the trade and has chosen to act like a petulant child anytime the subject is brought up, refused to take his calls, refused to shake his hand...basically Shady is an adolescent who couldn't get over the fact he was traded.

None of this has anything to do with whether or not Chip can coach in the NFL, which is what nbafan also said, and what he got some push back about. I'd imagine you can go into most NFL locker rooms and find players on every team that don't like the coach...that's just how it goes. Harbaugh wasn't liked by a lot of his players, especially towards the end of his tenure. That has nothing to do with whether or not Harbaugh can coach in the NFL, which he clearly can do.

There are other articles out there painting Chip in a worse light than this one too. Many of the comments in this article, from the players, say that they didn't really have an issue with Chip. Again, I'm not disputing that many players probably didn't like Chip Kelly, but I'm not sure this article really does a good job at all of showing that. Most of the comments were from the owner Lurie....and he's a major part of the problem himself. Chip was held accountable for his decisions...as a GM, not as a coach.
 
Most of it is a media narrative. They portray him negatively because he treats them they way they deserve. They treated Bellichek the same way until he won a SB, now they treat him like a footbal oracle. kelly doesn't seem like a guy I'd get along with, apparently he is 100% intense, 24 hrs a day. But then again, I'm not getting paid 7 figures to listen to him and don't have a precious ego.

If it was Jeff Fisher the players would be portrayed as bitter ex-players
 
Alan Tongue said:
Most of it is a media narrative. They portray him negatively because he treats them they way they deserve. They treated Bellichek the same way until he won a SB, now they treat him like a footbal oracle. kelly doesn't seem like a guy I'd get along with, apparently he is 100% intense, 24 hrs a day. But then again, I'm not getting paid 7 figures to listen to him and don't have a precious ego.

If it was Jeff Fisher the players would be portrayed as bitter ex-players
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Exactly.
 
Alan Tongue said:
Most of it is a media narrative. They portray him negatively because he treats them they way they deserve. They treated Bellichek the same way until he won a SB, now they treat him like a footbal oracle. kelly doesn't seem like a guy I'd get along with, apparently he is 100% intense, 24 hrs a day. But then again, I'm not getting paid 7 figures to listen to him and don't have a precious ego.

If it was Jeff Fisher the players would be portrayed as bitter ex-players
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There's some truth to this theory. The crusty Cleveland media, the guys who were here then and now, still insist they had no part in painting Belichick as an aloof buffoon. I'm here to tell you, he had no time for them, and they avenged it the only way they knew how. So he became a villain.
 
kdog said:
He's a good, maybe great, college coach. The primary qualification necessary for that is salesmanship. What has he done that makes him a great football mind? Coach defense under Belichick?
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Saban went 15-17 with the Dolphins. Since Saban left, the Dolphins are 60-83.

Maybe great college coach? Get off the drugs son.
 
kdog said:
Believe me it does not say he's a good coach. Because in the NFL I don't think he is.
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Another point about the "he's not a good coach just because he went 10-6 with someone else's players" opinion...Andy Reid went 4-12 with those players the year before. Andy Reid is a pretty good NFL coach I think most would say.
 
Lareux said:
Yeah, we've all heard all of this for quite some time. I'm not sure anyone tried to dispute that some (maybe most) of the Eagles didn't like Chip for one reason or another. As I said, let's give it some time and let all of the reactions come out to see what's actually true and what isn't. Also, again, many players just back their teammates regardless of what they say because that's what teammates do. It seemed pretty clear that Chip had worn out his welcome in Philly. Most of that animosity was caused by the moves he made as GM. Even if they bring up things like tough practices, etc...it really started getting louder after certain players were traded/released.

Everyone loved him after the first season when they went 10-6 and made the playoffs. I remember reading one article in particular before his 2nd season where players praised Chip for how he went about things...one of the loudest was....yep, Shady McCoy. McCoy had two unbelievable seasons with Chip running the offense he played in...then he got butt hurt that he was traded and decided to call Chip a racist (which was fucking laughable, at best) and act as if Chip was this demon of a coach or something. That's clearly just someone who's frustrated/hurt/upset who was just venting and making stuff up, and Shady still holds the grudge over the trade and has chosen to act like a petulant child anytime the subject is brought up, refused to take his calls, refused to shake his hand...basically Shady is an adolescent who couldn't get over the fact he was traded.

None of this has anything to do with whether or not Chip can coach in the NFL, which is what nbafan also said, and what he got some push back about. I'd imagine you can go into most NFL locker rooms and find players on every team that don't like the coach...that's just how it goes. Harbaugh wasn't liked by a lot of his players, especially towards the end of his tenure. That has nothing to do with whether or not Harbaugh can coach in the NFL, which he clearly can do.

There are other articles out there painting Chip in a worse light than this one too. Many of the comments in this article, from the players, say that they didn't really have an issue with Chip. Again, I'm not disputing that many players probably didn't like Chip Kelly, but I'm not sure this article really does a good job at all of showing that. Most of the comments were from the owner Lurie....and he's a major part of the problem himself. Chip was held accountable for his decisions...as a GM, not as a coach.
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The article has a lot to do about whether Chip can coach. A SIGNIFICANT part of coaching (besides X's and O's) is the relationships you have with players. They don't need to like you, but they need to respect you as a coach and they need to buy in to your "program." The coach needs to be able to get the most out of his players and to get them to play their best as much as possible. You can't do that very well if they don't believe in what you are doing. Of course, money and job security come into play, but honestly - most of these guys know that if it doesn't work out in Philly for them they can go somewhere else and get paid. See, DJax, etc. as examples of that. When your "best" players don't buy in, their teammates see that and it has a tremendous impact on the rest of the locker room. Lane Johnson's comments seem to support this.

Chip is a shitty GM, we can all agree on that. But his lack of relationship building with players is a big reason why he was fired (as cited by Lurie) and THAT is ultimately what has an impact on the record. If he was 11-5 or 12-4 every year, nobody would give two shits about what Chip does as a GM because he's getting it done on the field So to say he is not being held accountable as a coach isn't accurate at all IMO. But I do agree that the personnel stuff is most likely the main part of why he was fired - I just think they would look past some of his decisions if he were winning more games.

In terms of style/scheme, he was very "innovative" when he came into the league, but even in the first year players were griping about the speed/pace of practice and that they were wearing down. He's steadily run fewer plays per game since the first year. Other teams are adapting to his scheme because it's not new anymore. In college, he can recruit better athletes but as someone pointed out, the draft (and even salary caps) are equalizers in the pros. Good coaches adapt and evolve to fit personnel and to take advantage of other team's weaknesses. Chip still uses the college mindset that he will run his offense the same way and really not fit it to his personnel. Shit, he still had Bradford running read-option runs in the preseason coming off knee surgery. Who the fuck does that? Hell, he brings in the leading rusher as his top FA signing and he can't even figure out how to use him properly. That is a coach being stubborn and not fitting the offense to the personnel. Murray is not a scat back like McCoy or Sproles, he's a slasher/downhill runner that is best utilized when he can see the play develop from a deeper I-back or single set.
 
Saban went 9-7 one year. Of Miami's last 12 seasons, only one season has been better.

You can't win at shit organisations.
 
P-Unit said:
The article has a lot to do about whether Chip can coach. A SIGNIFICANT part of coaching (besides X's and O's) is the relationships you have with players. They don't need to like you, but they need to respect you as a coach and they need to buy in to your "program." The coach needs to be able to get the most out of his players and to get them to play their best as much as possible. You can't do that very well if they don't believe in what you are doing. Of course, money and job security come into play, but honestly - most of these guys know that if it doesn't work out in Philly for them they can go somewhere else and get paid. See, DJax, etc. as examples of that. When your "best" players don't buy in, their teammates see that and it has a tremendous impact on the rest of the locker room. Lane Johnson's comments seem to support this.

Chip is a shitty GM, we can all agree on that. But his lack of relationship building with players is a big reason why he was fired (as cited by Lurie) and THAT is ultimately what has an impact on the record. If he was 11-5 or 12-4 every year, nobody would give two shits about what Chip does as a GM because he's getting it done on the field So to say he is not being held accountable as a coach isn't accurate at all IMO. But I do agree that the personnel stuff is most likely the main part of why he was fired - I just think they would look past some of his decisions if he were winning more games.

In terms of style/scheme, he was very "innovative" when he came into the league, but even in the first year players were griping about the speed/pace of practice and that they were wearing down. He's steadily run fewer plays per game since the first year. Other teams are adapting to his scheme because it's not new anymore. In college, he can recruit better athletes but as someone pointed out, the draft (and even salary caps) are equalizers in the pros. Good coaches adapt and evolve to fit personnel and to take advantage of other team's weaknesses. Chip still uses the college mindset that he will run his offense the same way and really not fit it to his personnel. Shit, he still had Bradford running read-option runs in the preseason coming off knee surgery. Who the fuck does that? Hell, he brings in the leading rusher as his top FA signing and he can't even figure out how to use him properly. That is a coach being stubborn and not fitting the offense to the personnel. Murray is not a scat back like McCoy or Sproles, he's a slasher/downhill runner that is best utilized when he can see the play develop from a deeper I-back or single set.
Click to expand...

Lurie also said that Chip's "gambles didn't pay off" or something to that effect. Chip the GM was much more responsible for the firing than Chip the coach. That's evidenced by the Eagles asking him to just stop being the GM but still wanting him to coach. Why in the world would they have ever offered that if they thought nobody liked/respected him, and if they didn't think he was, and could be, a successful coach? That literally makes no sense.

There are players who have come out in support of Chip, so we can't act as if every player hated him. Not for nothing either, but when Desean Jackson and Lesean McCoy are the 2 loudest critics, there's probably not that much reason to put too much weight into it. They aren't exactly looked upon for their leadership. What has Jeremy Maclin had to say about Chip since essentially being allowed to walk? From what I've seen Maclin hasn't had anything bad to say at all, and said that he and Chip still text each other and have a good relationship.

Regardless of anything, him failing as a GM is what got him fired. If he didn't get rid of Jackson, McCoy, and others is the feeling that they would have won? Of course it is...but how can that be if Chip can't coach? Again, the players were singing his praises after his first season there. The only thing that changed is that Chip made some horrible, horrible personnel moves and they lost a bunch of games this year.
 
Lareux said:
Lurie also said that Chip's "gambles didn't pay off" or something to that effect. Chip the GM was much more responsible for the firing than Chip the coach. That's evidenced by the Eagles asking him to just stop being the GM but still wanting him to coach. Why in the world would they have ever offered that if they thought nobody liked/respected him, and if they didn't think he was, and could be, a successful coach? That literally makes no sense.

There are players who have come out in support of Chip, so we can't act as if every player hated him. Not for nothing either, but when Desean Jackson and Lesean McCoy are the 2 loudest critics, there's probably not that much reason to put too much weight into it. They aren't exactly looked upon for their leadership. What has Jeremy Maclin had to say about Chip since essentially being allowed to walk? From what I've seen Maclin hasn't had anything bad to say at all, and said that he and Chip still text each other and have a good relationship.

Regardless of anything, him failing as a GM is what got him fired. If he didn't get rid of Jackson, McCoy, and others is the feeling that they would have won? Of course it is...but how can that be if Chip can't coach? Again, the players were singing his praises after his first season there. The only thing that changed is that Chip made some horrible, horrible personnel moves and they lost a bunch of games this year.
Click to expand...

The article I posted clearly said Lurie "didn't offer to keep Kelly on as the coach and strip him of personnel control." That's from the horses mouth. Chip was out, regardless.
 
P-Unit said:
The article I posted clearly said Lurie "didn't offer to keep Kelly on as the coach and strip him of personnel control." That's from the horses mouth. Chip was out, regardless.
Click to expand...

It was offered to him before the season started from what I read. Seems odd they didn't just fire him then and there, but again Lurie is a big part of the problem.
 
Yes, the player is "anonymous," but like I said, let's let the dust settle and see what is revealed as the truth in the end. These comments do hint at what I said about some players being more vocal, and having other players having those teammates' back for one reason or another.

PHILADELPHIA -- After Chip Kelly was fired by the Eagles, several reports spread that one of the key reasons he was dismissed as head coach was that he had lost the support of the locker room.

Speaking Wednesday to NJ Advance Media, one member of the team made it clear that Kelly had not lost the locker room -- just the support of a few key members.

The player spoke on condition of anonymity.

"A select few guys wanted to be babied," said the player, "and Chip wouldn't do it."

So did Kelly lose the locker room?

"Of course not," said the player. "It was a handful of guys. If that. But it led to some tension."

With news of Kelly's firing taking over the NovaCare Complex on Wednesday, players were asked what they want in a new head coach.
"You need a coach, especially at this level, who is willing to work with the top guys on the team. Because (the players) usually follow most of the top guys," outside linebacker Brandon Graham said Wednesday. "You need to work together -- especially between coaches and players. It's not like college. ... Now some players are being paid more than you. You need to get them to believe in what you were talking."
 






<article id="post-99611" class="post-99611 fte_features type-fte_features status-publish has-post-thumbnail hentry tag-chip-kelly tag-football tag-nfl tag-philadelphia-eagles fte_verticals-sports vertical-sports" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; margin: 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">FOOTBALL 4:11 PM DEC 30, 2015
Chip Kelly’s Problem Wasn’t The Hurry-Up — It Was Everything Else

By NEIL PAINE

kelly123015.jpg
Philadelphia Eagles head coach Chip Kelly, who was fired Tuesday.
MATT ROURKE / AP


Here at FiveThirtyEight, we’ve watched Chip Kelly’s 2015 campaign as Philadelphia Eagles head coach/general manager with a combination of fascination and horror. His offseason roster-shuffling was spellbinding; the season itself, not so much. And on Tuesday night, it all came to a screeching halt with the news that Kelly had been fired in the wake of Philly’s 38-24 loss to Washington, with one game left in the season.
Although Kelly had two years left on his contract, the dismissal wasn’t exactly a surprise. According to Elo ratings, our pet metric for gauging team strength, the Eagles have been one of the league’s most underwhelming teams this season. It’s telling that Philly refused to even let Kelly play out the string in Week 17, as if to emphasize the magnitude of the disappointment — this is only the seventh time since 1970 that an NFL team has fired its coach with exactly one game left in the schedule.
Despite the fanfare that accompanied Kelly’s transition to the NFL in 2013, Philly couldn’t sustain the flashes of offensive brilliance it showed during Kelly’s first season as coach. The team regressed each year under his watch, to the degree that — according to our expected points added (EPA) grades, which rate teams on a scale in which 100 is average and one standard deviation is worth 15 points — Kelly’s final edition of the Eagles was below average at running the ball and stopping the pass, and downright horrible when it came to passing and stopping the run.
<section class="viz" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">[TABLE="class: viz full, width: 100%"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH="class: upper, align: center"][/TH]
[TH="class: upper upper-text, colspan: 2, align: center"]OFFENSE RATING[/TH]
[TH="class: upper upper-text, colspan: 2, align: center"]DEFENSE RATING[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: no-parent number, align: center"]YEAR[/TH]
[TH="class: number, align: center"]PASSING[/TH]
[TH="class: number, align: center"]RUSHING[/TH]
[TH="class: number, align: center"]PASSING[/TH]
[TH="class: number, align: center"]RUSHING[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: number highlight bold, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]2015[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight bold, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]87[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight bold, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]97[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight bold, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]97[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight bold, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]91[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2014[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]103[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]98[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]97[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]112[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]115[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]121[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]95[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]117[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
<footer class="viz" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; margin: 0px 0px 1.5em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">SOURCE: TRUMEDIA
</footer></section>Now, maybe this season’s ignominy was a hiccup, albeit one largely attributable to the slew of personnel changes Kelly made over the offseason. Certainly, teams this bad at passing tend to bounce back the next season. But it’s rarely enough to get back to league average,[SUP]1[/SUP] and even if the Eagles did, they’d still be left with a mediocre offense overall. That’s hardly the revolution Philly had in mind when it lured Kelly away from Oregon three years ago.
But here’s the thing: The “blur” offense actually worked for the Eagles. In terms of using the fewest seconds of clock time per play, the 2015 Eagles were the fastest-paced NFL team since TruMedia began tracking the statistic in 2006. They kept pushing the proportion of their plays that used fewer than 30 real-time seconds between snaps — which I’ll define as “hurry-up” plays for our purposes — and those plays largely continued to be more effective (by per-play EPA) than the league average across all plays.
<section class="viz" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">[TABLE="class: viz full, width: 100%"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH="class: upper, colspan: 3"][/TH]
[TH="class: upper upper-text, colspan: 2, align: center"]PER PLAY, HURRY-UP[/TH]
[TH="class: upper upper-text, colspan: 2, align: center"]PER PLAY, NON-HURRY-UP[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: no-parent text"]TEAM[/TH]
[TH="class: no-parent number, align: center"]YEAR[/TH]
[TH="class: no-parent number, align: right"]HURRY-UP %[/TH]
[TH="class: number, align: right"]TIME[/TH]
[TH="class: number, align: right"]EPA VS. AVG[/TH]
[TH="class: number, align: right"]TIME[/TH]
[TH="class: number, align: right"]EPA VS. AVG[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0"]Eagles[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]2015[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]36%[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]25.1s[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]+0.10[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]33.0s[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]-0.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0"]Eagles[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]2014[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]30[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]25.1[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]+0.44[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]34.2[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]-0.17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0"]Eagles[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]27[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]26.0[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]-0.01[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]35.0[/TD]
[TD="class: number highlight, bgcolor: #F0F0F0, align: right"]+0.13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text"]Broncos[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]24[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]25.7[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]+1.36[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]36.5[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-0.17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text"]Bills[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]22[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]26.9[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-0.08[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]35.3[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-0.06[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text"]Patriots[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2014[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]16[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]26.1[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]+1.38[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]37.2[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-0.17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text"]Jaguars[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]16[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]26.0[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-2.28[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]37.7[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]+0.25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text"]Browns[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2014[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]15[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]25.0[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]+0.66[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]37.6[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-0.18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text"]Patriots[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]15[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]25.5[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-0.46[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]37.5[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]+0.14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text"]Texans[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2014[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]14[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]25.9[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]+2.02[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]38.3[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-0.36[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text"]Giants[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2015[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]13[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]26.4[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]+1.27[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]37.3[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-0.17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text"]Packers[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2015[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]13[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]26.1[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-0.64[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]38.7[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]+0.12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text"]Chargers[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2015[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]13[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]25.1[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-1.03[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]38.8[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]+0.13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text"]Ravens[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2013[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]12[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]27.0[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-0.74[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]37.2[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text"]Texans[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"]2015[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]12[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]25.4[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]+1.27[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]37.9[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-0.22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: text"]NFL Avg.[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: center"][/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]8[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]25.7[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]-0.12[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]39.5[/TD]
[TD="class: number, align: right"]+0.01[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
<footer class="viz" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; margin: 0px 0px 1.5em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">SOURCE: TRUMEDIA
</footer></section>It bears mentioning that the league-average EPA on hurry-up plays is significantly worse than it is on other types of plays (shaded both ways by manic end-of-game scenarios), so we might have predicted that the Eagles would fare much worse while in blur mode, not better. Yet Philly managed to keep its hurry-up efficiency above league average and compounded that edge by running these up-tempo plays about four times as frequently as the typical team. This should have been a tremendous advantage.
And if all Kelly did was run fast plays, we might not be discussing his firing right now. But aside from Kelly’s first season, Philly’s offense has been hugely ineffective when it isn’t pushing the tempo. A freakishly efficient showing on fast-paced plays last season helped temporarily mask that issue, but the Eagles offense cratered this year when its hurry-up efficiency dipped, even though it remained above league average. It’s hard to rely solely on your hurry-up when, even at its peak, hurry-up can account for only about a third of your plays.
The irony, of course, is that Kelly’s failed Eagles tenure will probably be seen as a sort of referendum on his fast-paced style. And perhaps the types of players necessary to properly execute that formula are less suited to a conventional playing style, or the allocation of practice time required for their execution precludes a team from being sharp in a standard set. But Kelly’s fast-break offense itself turned out to be one of the Eagles’ greatest strengths. The problem, it turns out, was damn near everything else the team did.

</article>Footnotes


  • Since 1966, only 27 percent of teams with a passing index from 85 to 90 made it to 100 the next season. ^


Neil Paine is a senior sportswriter for FiveThirtyEight.

 
Read that article earlier, good article.

If you get Chip a QB who can play the way he wants him to play, make the throws he needs to make, etc...Chip will do just fine in the NFL. Obviously finding the QB is the big issue for any team in today's NFL, but the QB may be more important for Chip than most other coaches.
 
Lareux said:
It was offered to him before the season started from what I read. Seems odd they didn't just fire him then and there, but again Lurie is a big part of the problem.
Click to expand...
Chip demanded to have full personnel control last January and it was granted to him by Lurie. Why would Lurie try to take it back so quickly without even playing a game? That's nonsensical.

And Lurie can be as much of the problem as he wants. He's the owner. Chip knew what he was getting into when he signed 3 years ago - none of Lurie's actions should be a surprise.
 
P-Unit said:
Chip demanded to have full personnel control last January and it was granted to him by Lurie. Why would Lurie try to take it back so quickly without even playing a game? That's nonsensical.

And Lurie can be as much of the problem as he wants. He's the owner. Chip knew what he was getting into when he signed 3 years ago - none of Lurie's actions should be a surprise.
Click to expand...

It is nonsensical, but apparently it happened. Seems Lurie is nonsensical.
 
I'm sorry, I read it wrong. Lurie did give Chip the offer of relenting GM control before he fired him this week, not before the season (what I initially said and thought).

http://www.pennlive.com/philadelphiaeagles/index.ssf/2015/12/chip_kelly_refused_to_give_up.html

Tuesday, with one game left in the season, Lurie fired Kelly, and the power over personnel might have been at the root of the owner's decision.
ESPN's Sal Paolantonio reported Tuesday night that Lurie wanted to reduce Kelly's role. He could remain head coach, but Lurie told the coach he'd have to hand control of the team's personnel over to someone else.
Kelly, according to Paolantonio's report, refused to relinquish that power. Thus, Lurie made the announcement with a little less than a week left in the season that he had let Kelly go.
Such a scenario was predicted by several media members before it played out. Kelly, labeled as prideful by reporters and fans alike, made several head-scratching moves this offseason.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ed-when-lurie-asked-him-to-give-up-personnel/
 
Why did he go out and get Demarco? Can't imagine Lurie was pleased with that idea.
 
Lareux said:
Read that article earlier, good article.

If you get Chip a QB who can play the way he wants him to play, make the throws he needs to make, etc...Chip will do just fine in the NFL. Obviously finding the QB is the big issue for any team in today's NFL, but the QB may be more important for Chip than most other coaches.
Click to expand...

that's exactly what I got out of the article too
 
I'll be interested to see where he goes and how he does. I don't want the experiment in my kitchen though. I think he's more Mouse Davis than Bill Belichick.
 
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