abcs Preseason top 6.. Debate Welcomed




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abcs

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Oklahoma #1.. They killed it to end the last year.. look for a healthy AP
USC #2.. I think their wr core is better than 50% of the NFL wr's
Ohio St #3.. Tedd Ginn enough said
West Virginia #4.. The 2 freshman were amazing last year
Notre Dame #5.. Still wont be able to play defense.
Texas #6.. More talent than last years team, just dont look for a freshman qb to beat Ohio st and Oklahoma,
:drinking:
 
For a preseason top 6..very solid

End of year, I say 3 outta 6 will remain.

Notre Dame schedule and defense weakness will do them in. Its unreal to me that National Publications cannot even recognize this.

Ohio State needs to get that defense seasoned before the first big Test against Iowa last weekend of September. Other than that they will be fine.

Texas and OU will cancel one or the other out of an eventual national championship game.

If WVU can win at UL(no small feat), they will be BCS Championship game bound IMO



Appreciate the good thread bro..keep it up.:cheers:
 
I agree with the possibility of the first 2, and like Big Al said, Oklahoma and Texas will decide who will be the Big 12 representative in the National Championship.

I'd love to see Notre Dame there, but again I agree with Big Al, the schedule is too tough.

I read somewhere were Ohio State lost over 83% of their defensive production from last season!
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That's way too many losses for me to rank them very high. I rate defensive teams higher than offensive myself.

I don't think West Virginia gets as lucky as they were last season. They won too many close games and were on the "+" in turnovers. It's great to be lucky, but it rarely happens two years in a row. I'm not saying they are not a good team, but they did have luck running their way this season. I think they get two losses within their own conference.

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Most open season I've ever seen. Everybody has a weakness so I'll play devils advocate.

Oklahoma

Will be starting 7 sophmores on offense including 4 on the OL. They have no depth on the OL because they keep leaving the program and not a single player that will be all conference. Sure they grew up in a year but I'm not sure a year in the weight room and playing together turns this offense into a championship one. OU was 72nd in total offense last year. Sure AP was hurt last year but for only 3 games. Last year wasn't AP's fault it was his OL and a QB that doesn't stretch the field.

I'm sure the OU fans will run on here and bring 2000 up the year they won the MNC and the comparisons to this years team need to stop. Everybody talks about how they won it with defense which they did but their offense was potent. OU's defense was top 5 in the country that year giving up only 14.9 ppg with tons of playmakers. I guess everyone thinks there offense stunk that year because of the low scoring orange bowl. That would be far from the truth. This was an OU offense that just had Mike Leach as their OC the year before. In OU's MNC year they avg almost 40 points a game and ranked in the top 10 in offense. Their QB was runner up to the Heisman.

This will be an interesting year for OU. Has all the huge losses in the coaching ranks caught up to them? Everybody loves to talk about Stoops owning Mack but Texas has the better coaching staff now top to bottom.

And yes I know I'm a Horn fan but I have given OU plenty of props before and have bet on them vs Texas the last 3 years prior to last. Each time it was my biggest bet of the season.

USC

Huge, huge losses on offense. USC has been recruiting lights out over the years so I think it will probably take a year before we annually see them playing in the MNC title game again. If they find themselves a RB they are my darkhorse team if you can call them that lol to win the MNC this coming season.

Ohio St.

Way to many losses on the defense. Only one player is returning on defense that played the same position the year before. One. And when I mean losses were talking about guys that have started 2-3 years. Now tOSU goes from a SR laden defense to one that will field 6 sophmore starters. Buckeye fans will throw out alot of names at you but when you have the first WR, C, SS, and LB taken in the NFL draft you lost some big time talent.

The DL has not much of a threat of a pass rush. The LB corp will not near be as quick as last years. Freeman was a blazer before he hurt his knee and was out for the season, Laurinaitis is a tough player but he lacks speed, and Kerr in the middle is not tall or fast. I've hear a million times that he led Indiana in tackles as freshman. That's like telling us Texas fans to get excited because we just got a new LB that led Baylor in tackles. No thank you.

Ohio St. is going to have trouble with teams that throw 3-4 WR sets at them. O'neal and Jenkins will be stars at corner and saftey. Problem is the second corner and nickel corner. One has been a career backup and the other will be a freshman.

The big problem with the Buckeyes under Tressel has been his poor performance on the road and this even dates back to his Youngstown St. days. The last 3 years at tOSU they are 7-6 on the road. They have lost 3 of their last 4 road games vs ranked opponents. That win was against a 17th ranked Michigan squad last year that should've won that game.

Seems OSU gets huge boost at home since they play in probably the toughest venue in all of america. His conservative style of play hurts him on the road. He relies on his defense which tailors to his conservative play calling. Problem is the defense on the road doesn't get the boost from the crowd by disrupting audibles and calls at the line like you would at home. Texas A&M was exactly like this when RC Slocum was there.

Not only that how many times have we seen OSU struggle on the road vs shitty teams like Cincy, PSU when they were bad, NW, and Purdue's of the world?

This is why I like Texas vs tOSU. Second game of the season for a young defense on the road playing in a nice little 100 degree heat in central Texas with some nice sticky humidity to go with.

So the question is will Tressell be conservative in big games this year particuilarly Texas? The offense will be potent losing Santonio Holmes will be alot bigger then most think as now Ginn will be getting all the double teams.

We shall see.

WEST VIRGINIA

Don't they seem like the trendy pick each year? Because you look at their schedule and automatically assume they are going to go undefeated. I think alot of people are putting stock into its one incredible half vs Georgia. I've got money on them to win the title so I do like them but one loss and their out. Winner of the WV/Louisville game plays for the title IMO.

NOTRE DAME

Not untill they learn how to play defense. OSU should've hung 50-60 on them last year. OSU only punted once in that game. Once. I never seen a team get more hype from a close home loss. Maybe we should put Fresno St. in the top 10 too? Their biggest win last year was vs Michigan.

The issue is speed on the defense particularly in the secondary where there is none. They gave up almost 15 yards per catch and teams with fast WR blew past them time and time again.

TEXAS

Loaded everywhere. Great OL, 4 deep at WR, nice stable of RBs, defense will be even scarier with lots returning and year two under Chizik but...no Vince.

The biggest player to be replaced in all of college football in terms of what he meant to his team. Not just his ability on the field but his leadership off of it. VY was staying at Texas all the way up untill 19 seconds left in the Rose Bowl.

Texas had trouble getting any QB recruits to come to Texas because of his presence. Former USC QB Rocky Hinds that resembles VY a little was just qouted last week that he didn't choose Texas over UNLV because VY told him he was staying. Thanks Vince.

Texas has two 5 star QBs coming in next year in John Brantley the #2 ranked QB in the country, #2 overall player in the state of Florida, and #13 overall player as well as John Chiles the #1 ranked athlete in the entire country. Chiles will start out at QB and yes this is not a stretch the comparisons to Vick are there. Go look at his HS clips if you don't believe me.

Too bad that is for next year.

Texas has two QBs going after the starting spot. One is a true frosh with an NFL cannon arm and highly recruited out of HS. The other is a redshirt freshman that has more knowlegde of the system, not highly recruited, but is the son of a head coach with an awesome work ethic and great student of the game.

Uh oh does this sound familar?

True frosh Jevan Snead was the #3 QB out of HS this past season and has all the making to be a star. He seems to be the early fan favorite based on his potential and big time stats he put in HS. His HS actaully played alot of the same formations as the Horns in the shotgun spread attack where in two years Snead put up 1500 rushing yards with 33 rushing TDs and 6,500 passing yards with 77 TDs and 20 INTS. He enrolled early in January so he particapated in spring practice to get an early jump.

Redshirt freshman Colt Mccoy wasn't heralded coming out of HS in terms of what most Texas fans expect because he played for such a small school. We have had for the last 6 years the #1 overall HS QBs in the country playing QB for us. He was the #15 overall QB in the country out of HS.

He played for a small school in Texas where he diminated becoming the fourth overall top passer in all of Texas HS football history. He threw for nearly 10,000 yards and 120 TDs.

In early reports it seems that Colt Mccoy will be the starter coming out this year. He has grown two inches and gained about 10 pounds since HS. He has grasped the offense better then anyone would have expected and much better then VY ever did as a freshman.

The big question is what kind of offense will Davis employ? Alot of people are under the assumption that Texas ran VY on every other play and that's far from the truth. Of course the zone read won't be as effective but where VY will be missed are when passing plays nreak down or you need that crucial game breaking run on third down. He did it time and time again and Texas will miss that.

My other biggest concern outside of QB is the place kicker. Texas has no kickers and is expecting a true freshman to assume the positino in Hunter Lawrence. Lawrence was the #2 HS kicker in the country last year but kicker has got to be the hardest position to recruit because you just never know.

Texas is going to rely on its defense this year and I only have one concern there and that's when facing teams with a power back that can run inbetween the tackles. Texas has trouble with physical teams. Texas defense is speed, speed, speed, and more speed. You've got a DE that was spun down from LB, and a LB that was spun down from saftey. Texas' defense the last two years have been deciphels of Monte Kiffin's Tampa 2. Spread attacks get destroyed by the Texas defense. You can;t spread Texas out or beat them with speed. Ted Ginn had 2 catches for 7 yards vs Texas. Reggie Bush had his worst game last year vs Texas. Not saying he didn't have a good game but it was nowhwere near what he was doing. After the Columbus game a writer wrote that he hasn't seen that much team speed since the tOSU MNC game vs Miami.

Teams that give Texas problems have been physical. Michigan at the Rose Bowl last year had Hart busting it up the gut and they had no match for the size of Braylon Edwards. Last year A&M smacked Texas in the mouth with their huge back Javorskie Lane. USC didn't start get going on offense untill Lendale White took over for Bush. White was killing Texas up the middle. Texas also had no answer for the size of Jarett but the smaller Smith didn't do anything.

I like the match-up vs tOSU as it stands but they would be smart to get uber-recruit RB Chris Wells into the game. Wells was the top RB out of HS last year. He could make the difference in whether tOSU wins because he is powerful up the middle not a slasher like Pittman.

Against OU if (and that's a big if) they get the line going and Bomar learns how to throw a pass over 30 yards Peterson is going to be a monster for Texas to contain. Remember what he did vs Texas his frosh year?

Anyway just a couple of thoughts to kick around and welcome to the forum abcs!

:cheers:
 
just a couple of thoughts, eh? Horn

Great stuff as always.

Taking little points outta there that I like:

-OU offensive line. One thing I have learned over the years is that offensive line play is so huge. This bears watching especially with no depth.

-The Buckeye-Texas game may come down to how much Wells gets into the game. Pittman will do nothing in that game IMO.

-Good point about Holmes as well. He was big at stretching that field so the little passes to Ginn could work

-I understand that WVU will be a chic pick as well. What I try and remember though is that Slaton/White are now just sophomores. Scary thought. I still think they will be fine till UL game. That will just be an awesome game. One of the ones that I most look forward to this season.
 
I was about to jump in and point out the obvious problem with OU--their offensive line is way below grade and does not have depth--but Horn beat me to it.

I was watching the Fiesta Bowl and tOSU v. Michigan from last year tonight on ESPNU and I got a crazy idea--tOSU is overrated. I'm going to start a thread on the topic soon but I want to do more research on the topic.

Think that Louisville is the class of the Big East this year and will beat WVU at home and Pitt on the road. I think they also might beat Miami at Papa John's in the 3rd week.

I really think that the loss of Vince Young cannot be overstated, and yet it has. At worst, Texas' offense will resemble something like Minny's offense the last few years with the #1 OL in the nation and a running back corp that will be in the top 5 rypg just behind the pure option offenses like Navy. If a suck ass QB like Cupito can guide his team to a close loss against tOSU at home last year, Texas has a very good chance to beat tOSU at home and BlowU in Dallas. The Texas QBs will be serviceable at worst for tOSU and beginning to step into their own against OU. I just hope that Mack does not platoon his QBs. Pick one and go with it.

Don't forget that USC is without Jarrett as of right now. He may play this year, but we're only a month away with no word as to his status. Can't feel too confident about that. I also think that Arkansas and/or Nebraska will give USC a real scare early in the season.

More later...

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Being in SE Arkansas, I get more Big 12 coverage than anything else around here, so I can comment on some of these thoughts:

-- The worse thing that could happen to Oklahoma would be injuries to the offense - almost any position could be devastating. The Sophomore status doesn't concern me nearly as much as their depth. Sources around Norman have the offensive line working hard and improving greatly in Spring practices and Summer offseason. Most all these players played quite a bit last season whether they started or not. Still, it's going to be a unit that should be a lot stronger by the end of the season than the beginning -- barring injury.

Oklahoma is pretty high on this incoming freshman RB that was one of the Top recruits in the nation. BUT, I think everyone gets too excited about incoming recruits. Let's face it, some of them pan out, and some of them do not. You can't just automatically pencil them into the lineup just because some recruiting agency has them listed 5 stars. Still, if Adrian goes down again, Oklahoma will basically have to use this kid and Patrick. Guiterrez should be healthy as well. Still, none of these guys are Adrian Peterson.

Bomar did get better as the season went along last year. But, he's still green. I look for maybe a little better play out of him this season than last with moments of brilliance followed by moments of "brain farts."

Oklahoma will miss Runnels. Period. However, they are really high on this tight end out of Ardmore, OK. There's a possibility of Wilson opening up the offense to include the tight end more like back in the days of Trent Smith. If this happens, it adds a new dimension to the offense that can only be seen as a plus. Be sure to watch for this. I should know more once we get into fall practices (I pick up the "Sports Animal" out of OKC very clearly and listen to it a lot.)

DEFENSIVELY: Oklahoma will be just SICK!!! This is the side of the ball that gives them a shot at the conference and even national championship.

-- I don't really see Texas as having many weaknesses. The only thing they have at this point has already been mentioned in this thread - there's a big "?" at QB. Whoever they start will be very young and inexperienced. A lot of Texas' season will come down to how many mistakes can be limited by this spot. IMO

-- I'm anxious to see Nebraska in their third year of Callahan's system. This SHOULD be the year they shine, but I'm not real high on Callahan as a coach.
 
Great thoughts playwithme...

I know that I have Nebraska as under the radar team as well. I expect big things from them this season.
 
The real question to me is when will Miami step it up? Losing to Tech at home.. CMON!!
 
rjurewitz, I'm not sure the Texas QBs WILL be stepping into their own by the time Oklahoma game rolls around. It kind of all depends on what Brown decides to do -- will he choose just ONE QB, or will he play musical QBs like he did with Simms and Appelwhite? IMO, if he doesn't decide on just ONE QB, then the two of them will not have the confidence and experience by the Oklahoma game. I watched Stoops deal with this last season and he did the right thing by dropping Thompson out of the lineup and just giving the job to Bomar. These kids need to KNOW they are the QB for confidence purposes. If Brown decides to allow the competition between these two to continue throughout the season, then he's going to have to live with one QB shining one game, and the other bowing under pressure because of a lack of confidence. The same shit happened with Simms and Appelwhite. Brown would have been better off just giving the spot to one of them.

I'm just not a BIG fan of alternating QBs in football.

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PWM--Altenating QBs is never a good idea, I think. Mack could do it, but I don't think so. I think the spectre of Simms/Applewhite will be in the back of his mind and it didn't really work when they had Mock/Young either. I think he will go with Colt and Jevan will get junk time unless he really steps out as the superior QB. Then he might get a start.

Texas was not only the NC last year but also the ATS NC going 11-2 ATS. This year I'm not so confident that they will even be 8-4 ATS with the QB situation. I DO think that they will be a good 1H play against lesser competition (UNT, Rice, etc.) when their starter is in leading the team. Have to get up and watch at 9 am on Sept 2 to see how things will unfold.

Horn?
 
Good stuff playwithme. If your getting your spring reports on the OU OL from the animal they will always be glowing reports. 2 of the starters this year for OU on the OL didn't even participate because of injuries and the first string C during the spring was a true frosh who enrolled early and he has already left the team.

The problem is OU has had a ton of attrition on the OL. The S & C coach uses the same tough workouts for his WR, RB, and yes his 300 lb OL men. Some just can't hang and its obvious because of the number of kids they have lost the last 5 years at OL.

Texas DL destroyed OU's OL last year. OU lost a ton on the line last year to the draft in Joseph (#1 DC, 3 year starter), and Chester (#2 DC). Plus Chiasson (HM Big 12, 3 year starter).

OU' starting OL

C Jon Cooper - Started 2 games last year as a frosh. Broke leg. Sat out this spring.

RG - JD Quinn - Started 4 games as a frosh last year. Also missed the spring due to injury.

LG - George Robinson - No starts as a frosh last year.

RT - Branndon Braxton - 3 starts as a frosh last year

LT- Chris Messner 9 starts at RT and 1 start a LT in his career. He's a senior and the only player on this line with any kind of experience but he's not even that good.

Don't even let me list the second team. You've got an OL that has started a total of 19 games. 3 of these sophmores weren't given a year to redshirt which is always critical for OL to grow in the weight room. Plus two of these guys were hurt during the spring. Remember the Texas game is the fifth game on the schedule not the 10th.

Don't forget they also loss J.D Runnels one of the best blocking FBs in all of college football last year.

Some say AP will just rip off 2,000 yards because he's done it before. Let's not forget in his great frosh year when he put those numbers up he had a Heisman QB back there, and 3 WRs that were drafted day one.

More importantly his OL that year were all returning starters (one was an Outland winner). That line paved the way for 4.8 yards and only gave up 9 sacks. That line was one of the best in college football that year.

Go look at Phil Steel's mag and none of these starters on offense rank in any of his top 60 except for Braxton (#41 overall T).

Now look at the match-up. Texas' DL that destroyed them last year and Bomar. Texas' DE Crowder and Robison are both All-Big 12 SRs. Crowder is Steele's 4th best DE in the country Robison #26. They are both solid 3 and 4 year starters. DT Frank Okam is an All-American and Steele's #1 DT. He will now be freed up with Wright gone and will not have to play the gap position. Okam will have a break-out year.

That will be the biggest mismatch the entire game and that will be the difference in the outcome. With that OL will Peterson "I like to run standing up like I'm 10 ft tall" even make it to the Texas' game healthy? Hell he didn't make it last year and this OL will be worst.
 
What I’m seeing from tOSU this coming season.

QB – Solid. Best depth in the country probably.

RB – I like Pittman. Love Wells. Will Wells be able to make a splash in the second game of the season? Only reason Charles got carries is because Selvin Young was a first time starter that was given the job due to seniority basically and he got hurt in that game and had the fumbles early on. Wells may not see much action vs Texas.

WR – Holmes was the best WR on that squad last year. Ginn was the most overhyped player in college football last year. Sure he’s got all the speed in the world as does Gonzalez but that doesn’t make them going to be higher picks then Holmes. Holmes runs routes so well. Just because Ginn is faster and maybe better after the catch doesn’t make him a better WR then Holmes. Gonzalez is faster then Ginn in the forty and it doesn’t mean he’s better. The best WRs anywhere are the ones with hands, size and more importantly the best route runners.

Fact is Ginn has only played WR for two years now. He drops a lot of easy balls and he isn’t big enough when he goes up against teams that have NFL caliber corners. Against top defenses he had 3 catches for 30 yards vs Iowa, 3 catches for 40 yards vs PSU, and more importantly 2 catches for 9 yards vs a Texas secondary that features all NFL caliber defenders.

Cedric Griffin Texas’ best cover corner was covering Holmes while Ross was on Ginn except when he moved into the slot. That matchup will be the same next year. Ross is a big, fast, physical corner. Ginn avg 10 yards per punt with one TD, and 29 yards per kick with one TD, and 50 catches for around 800 yards and only 4 TDs, and around 80 yards rushing. This is while being guarded by most teams second best cover guy. Not to spectacular to me. Plus will teams double him this coming year without Holmes?

Ginn to me will not be a top 10 pick since he fits right into the mold of Desmond Howard, Rocket Ismail, and Peter Warrick. Exciting in college but flame out in the NFL because they can’t get off the line against big physical NFL corners. He once again like last year finished the year having a great game vs Michigan and a great bowl game vs a horrible defense. Overhyped IMO.

OL will be very good despite the 2 losses but they have no depth outside of the starters. I agree with you that Boone will be a first day pick when he comes out. Whoever plays center has big shoes to fill replacing Mangold the first center taken in this years draft. How will he do in game 2 in Austin calling out the blocking assignments in a hostile environment?

I don’t think this offense will touch USC or even Texas last year since I keep seeing ridiculous comparisons of Smith vs VY. First off when has Tressell ever fielded a great offense? Mind you think of all the talent that tOSU puts into the league on offense at WR , RB, and OL. Tressell is one of the most conservative offensive coaches in the country and it always bites him in the ass. Outside of Smith’s perfect throw and TD catch by Holmes vs Texas did they ever throw anything deep? No. Did they have any other big plays? No. They never even scored another TD despite having an avg starting field position at midfield if you take out the turnover on downs before the safety at the end.

They lose this game vs Texas because they always rely on special teams and their defense to win the game. Losing 9 starters including 5 first day picks on defense is not an improvement nor losing a solid kicker in Huston who was awesome in the game last year. I understand your points on this player was a top HS talent last year, and this player will be a top 10 pick two years from now.

That’s fine if the game is played two years from now not the second game of the season where the Buckeye defense will only have a home tuneup game vs Northern Illinois. That inexperienced defense will not be ready to walk into Austin and face an offense that has the best OL in the country, maybe the best RB corp in the country, and a top 5 WR corp. Whoever plays QB for Texas will be loaded with more talent around him then any other QB in the country.

tOSU has always won with its defense and it won’t happen vs Texas in Austin IMO.
 
More on OU's OL since they seem to be everyone's pick to win the MNC plus I'm sure I'm stirring the pot of one Sooner fan on another board.

I was right about their line and them being overrated to start the year last year and I say that was right on the mark as the season unfolded. OU is overrated again coming into this year. I can’t believe they are being picked by everyone to win the title. Once again a team winning their bowl game gets overrated the following year.

OU finished the year barely beating Baylor in OT, barley beating Nebraska by a TD, barley beating Aggie by 6, losing to Tech, whipping Okie St., and barley beating Oregon by 3. The season could’ve been a lot worse.

So going into this year they lose the Big 12's best fullback and if I’m not mistaken a three year starter in J.D. Runnels. They lost their blocking TE moses who I think has also been a three year starter. For a team that runs the ball 60% of the time losing both these players hurt.

The OL loses its two best blockers, three starters, and four overall in Davin Joseph, Kelvin Chiasson, Chis Bush, and Chris Chester. These four combined for 41 starts and the line wasn’t even good last year.

The problem won’t ever get better untill Stoops changes his attitude toward the fat boys on the OL. Kevin Wilson, Bob Stoops, and especially the S&C coach Schmidt are extreme hardasses and its starting to bite them in the butt. Former TE Trent Smith was qouted last year saying playing for Stoops is not worth it unless your winning because of how hard they are on the kids. The biggest fallout is of course happening on the OL because those are how do you say “fattest” guys on the team. The workouts are to hard for the big boys and they are dropping like flies.

Look at Stoops’ OL recruiting since 2002.

OU 2002 signing day:

Abner Estrada (left after one season)
Davin Joseph (4-year player—gone to the NFL)
Jeff Lebby (never played a down--injury)
Chris Messner (probably starter in 2006)
Steve Taylor (left without playing)

OU 2003 signing day:

Brandon Keith (qone)
Akim Millington (gone)
Antonn Reid (gone)
Brian Zimpel (gone)

OU 2004 signing day:

Brandon Braxton (didn't qualify)
Randy McAdams (gone)
J.D. Quinn (RS-SO in 2006)
Cameron Schacht (quit, then returned. RS-SO in 2006)

OU 2005 signing day:

Ben Barresi (redshirted)
Brandon Braxton (again--played as true freshman)
Jon Cooper (played as true freshman and broke his ankle)
Brandon Keith (quit)
Duke Robinson (played as true freshman)
Jesse White (redshirted, shrunk from 6'4 as a recruit to 6'0 in real world, probably medical retiring shortly)

Brian Simmons, once a 4-star DT, has been shifted to OL.

OU 2006 signing day:

Curtis Bailey (fr from Dallas)
Chase Beeler (fr from Jenks)
Cory Brandon (fr)
Sherrone Moore (juco player)
Chad Roark (graduated early, did spring, quit team)
Brandon Walker (juco player)
Trent Williams (fr)

OU so far in 2007 doesn’t have any commitments.

So of the 13 OL signed from 2002-2004, 4 remain on the roster.

Of the 6 signed in 2005, one quit already and one should be quitting shortly.

Of the 7 signed in 2006, one quit already.

Truly amazing. Now take that into contrast of the Longhorns.

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Texas 2002 OL signees:
Justin Blalock (5th-year senior in 2006, 3 year starter)
Lyle Sendlein (5th-year senior in 2006, two year starter)
Kasey Studdard (5th-year senior in 2006, two year starter)
Neale Tweedie (5th-year senior in 2006--TE now)
Brett Valdez (5th-year senior in 2006)

Texas 2003 OL signees:
Dallas Griffin (4th-year junior in 2006)
Kyle Thornton (4th-year junior in 2006)

Texas 2004 OL signees:
Cedric Dockery (3rd-year sophomore in 2006, will start this year)
Greg Dolan (3rd-year sophomore in 2006)
Tony Hills (3rd-year junior in 2006--signed as a TE, but the injury and his frame made him an OT immediately--didn't officially redshirt but he sat out a semester so he got a redshirt season, will start this year)

Texas 2005 OL signees:
Chris Hall (RS-FR in 2006)
Charlie Tanner (RS-FR in 2006)
Adam Ulatoski (RS-FR in 2006--actually redshirted two years but didn't enter school until Spring 2005 so he still has 4 years)

Texas 2006 OL signees:
Buck Burnett (early-entry FR in Spring 2006, will redshirt)
Steve Moore (FR in 2006, will redshirt)
Roy Watts (FR in 2006, will redshirt)
J'Marcus Webb (FR in 2006, will redshirt)

Texas for 2007 has already signed the top 6 OL in the state of Texas. An amazing OL class the best Mack has ever put together. Allen may be the #1 tackle in the country. This will hurt OU even more since they have a need to grab some top notch OL.

To sum up--Texas haven't lost a single OL signed since the 7-man signing class of 2001 (Roman Reeves left in 2002 and Terrance Young retired in 2005). Notice every single OL recruit has been able to redshirt as well.

Look at the starting OL for OU this year.

Jon Cooper will be the starting C. He started two games last year as a true frosh but broke his ankle vs Texas Tech and didn’t participate in spring drills.

Protecting Bomar’s blindside will be LT Chris Messner. He started 8 games last year at RT and now moves over to the leftside. He’s 280 pounds and a great pass protector but not as strong a run blocker.

At right tackle will more then likely be Branndon Braxton. Who had 3 starts last year as a true frosh. He will be pressed by incoming JUCO star Brandon Walker.

At one guard spot will be Duke Robinson who was too huge last year as a true frosh backup at 360 pounds. He is at 330 now. Never started a game.

The other guard spot will go to J.D Quinn who started four games as a redshirt freshmen last year. He like Cooper didn’t participate in spring practice due to injury.

The problem with the Sooners is none of these players are being able to redshirt because of the attrition issues at the OL. Any college coach will tell you redshirting at OL is more important then any other position on the field except for QB maybe. It gives you a year to grow, learn the offense, and the complicated blitz pickups.

So you think the OL will be fine with four sophmore starters? An OL with a total of 17 starts? An OL that had two of its starters out of spring ball needing those all important snaps together? Plus losing one of the better blocking FBs in the country in Runnels?

Last year OU gave up only 21 sacks but that’s still a lot considering Bomar’s mobility. Also Bomar took some of the biggest hits I’ve ever seen at the QB position. Kid has some guts. After the Texas game he said he felt like he was in a street fight because he was so banged up. The rushing attack avg 4.0 yards per carry. That’s pathetic.

I don’t care if you have Jim Brown at RB your not gonna have a great offense if the boys up front aren’t good.
 
Not a very good rate of keeping these guys for Stoops since he's been at OU.

I didn't list guys twice so I took out guys that committed but went to JUCO/Prep school. It would have messed up the success rate even more.

1999
Didn't sign one

2000
Howard Duncan
Wes Sims
Cliff Takawana

2001
Vince Carter
Kelvin Chiasson
Jerod Fields
Jacob Hagar
Jon Hawk

2002
Abner Estrada
Davin Joseph
Jeff Lebby
Chris Messner
Steve Taylor

2003
Akim Millington
Antonn Reid
Brian Zimpel

2004
Cameron Schacht
Randy McAdams
JD Quinn

2005
Ben Barresi
Brandon Braxton
Jon Cooper
Brandon Keith
Duke Robinson
Jesse White

For 2006 class Roark has already left to Nebraska.

Not counting the last 2 classes since none of those have graduated yet. Only 1 class has had more than half the linemen stay at OU. The 2000 class. Of the 25 linemen listed 13 of em stayed at OU. That's 52% total. But not counting the last 2 classes since none of them have graduated yet. That's 6 of 16. 38%. Yikes!

Some notables not listed. Jammall Brown was listed as a DLineman at the time. Chris Chester and Chris Bush were listed as TE recruits.

There is a problem somewhere and it needs to be fixed.
 
Notre Dame and USC have less than zero on defense

ND might in fact be the most overrated team in the past 10 years

every game will be in the 30's to 40's with them
 
Mattingly said:
Notre Dame and USC have less than zero on defense

ND might in fact be the most overrated team in the past 10 years

every game will be in the 30's to 40's with them
Click to expand...

Are you crazy bro??
Keith Rivers is the most gifted linebacker in college football..They started like 7 or 8 freshman and sophmore on d in that college game, all of these guys are 5 star prospects all will be in the league.
USC will be stacked on both sides once again.. ALL OF THEIR tough games are at home as well..(besides UCLA)
 
I'm an enormous tOSU fan..so I wanted to respond w/ my thoughts on your Buckeye thoughts...very good stuff Horn..

Ohio St.

Way to many losses on the defense. Only one player is returning on defense that played the same position the year before. One. And when I mean losses were talking about guys that have started 2-3 years. Now tOSU goes from a SR laden defense to one that will field 6 sophmore starters. Buckeye fans will throw out alot of names at you but when you have the first WR, C, SS, and LB taken in the NFL draft you lost some big time talent.

The DL has not much of a threat of a pass rush. The LB corp will not near be as quick as last years. Freeman was a blazer before he hurt his knee and was out for the season, Laurinaitis is a tough player but he lacks speed, and Kerr in the middle is not tall or fast. I've hear a million times that he led Indiana in tackles as freshman. That's like telling us Texas fans to get excited because we just got a new LB that led Baylor in tackles. No thank you.


I gotta disagree a bit here...I think the pass rush should be very good..with Wilson, Richardson, and Rose coming in, this should be much better than last year actually..Kudla was serviceable, but getting to the QB wasn't his strength..also Pidcock and Patterson both should be All Big Ten and definetely take the pressure off Kerr...he's a scheme guy and he's been the system three years...I think he'll do just fine...we also have Mike D'Andria who nobody knows what they get out of him..he was the number one LB recruit in the country in the class w/ Hawk and Carpenter..but injuries have been a huge plague for him..if he's healthy, he's a real nice ace up the sleeve...Animal Jr and Freeman will be WS and SS to start, but Ross Homan was a huge surprise in the spring and could be a big surprise..the front seven will be fine...

Ohio St. is going to have trouble with teams that throw 3-4 WR sets at them. O'neal and Jenkins will be stars at corner and saftey. Problem is the second corner and nickel corner. One has been a career backup and the other will be a freshman.

Agreed on Jenkins and O'Neil...honestly, I don't think Mitchell plays too long...Schwartz is a frosh coming in over 200 LB's and has been very impressive...also redshirt freshman Donald Washington too...Tressel says best player plays this year...so we'll see..the opposite CB is the question mark of the defense..Andre Amos could be it or Washington if he's moved..or true frosh Kurt Coleman...any way u slice it..it's a freshman..these kids have speed to burn and the secondary is actually going to be much, much faster and athletic than last year...Salley and Youboty were liabilities in teh passing game...the problem is, they were major assets in run support..that will be the key...Pidcock and Patterson have to have enormous years and they're capable...if they play like Fickell and Garnett during Katz freshman year our D will be good...and most think they can..it's the best combo D tackles we've had in ten years....

The big problem with the Buckeyes under Tressel has been his poor performance on the road and this even dates back to his Youngstown St. days. The last 3 years at tOSU they are 7-6 on the road. They have lost 3 of their last 4 road games vs ranked opponents. That win was against a 17th ranked Michigan squad last year that should've won that game.

This is so true...that's the one knock every tOSU fan has had on the Tressel staff since he's been here...too big keys though...ONE-he's never really had a QB he's trusted to turn it loose...he trusted Krenzel to manage teh game, but certainly not to break it open...Smith is the guy..much like your talking about the Texas situation this year, that was OSU's situation in last year's meeting..Smith was still in trouble and Zwick and him split snaps and it didn't work...anybody who watched SMith progress after teh PSU game last year saw a different guy and Tressel said it too...he has more confidence in him than any QB he's had...and it showed in the MICH and ND games...he threw for 342 yards in the ND game....in the MICH game and under one min left in FG range for the win, he called a play action pass to gonzo at the goal line...stuff that doesn't happen in years past...it's totally different now, and it's the confidence in the QB..number 2 is tied to one...the kicker....the defense has allowed him to be conservative, but so has the kicker...we've had four straight years of over 80% in FG percentage...two freshman kickers make that a big question mark this year...that takes conservate approaches much more difficult...aggression will be the name of the game for tOSU this year, good or bad..
 
Mattingly said:
Notre Dame and USC have less than zero on defense

ND might in fact be the most overrated team in the past 10 years

every game will be in the 30's to 40's with them
Click to expand...

The defensive end, Victor Abiamiri is rated the 11th in the nation according to Phil Steele.

Tackle Derrick Landri is rated the 26th best defensive tackle in nation.

Inside linebacker Maurice Crum is rated 43rd in nation.

Mitchell Thomas, and outside linebacker is ranked 60th.

Tom Zbickowski, safety, is Mel Kiper's 4th best safety in college ball.

Where they really are weak is in the backfield, (other than Zbickowski) but we've got some quality defensive players up front. So, I wouldn't say the Notre Dame defensive is non-existent.

Are they capable of winning the National Championship?? No, but they will be a team to be reckoned with.

winky.gif
 
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SHSUHorn, I agree with most of your assessment of the Oklahoma offensive line, but I don't fault Stoops way of training the big men. After all, how many of his offensive linemen are now playing in the NFL??
newwink.gif


All of the starting offensive linemen have valuable experience of playing last season, whether they started or not. They will not be the best offensive line in college football this season, but they will be sufficient for Oklahoma to be effective on offense IF they stay healthy. If they lose one or more linemen to injury, throw it all out the window.

I think this is an interesting season where 10 to 15 teams all have a legitimate chance of going to the National Championship game. It should prove to be a very interesting season.
beerchug.gif
 
i love debating this osu/tex game...always loved osu and vy i was always a fan of except in the championship game and the nfl (loved leinart for 3 years and bush....also didn't think vy would be a good nfl qb) but man i loved to see him run in college, both very entertaining teams to watch.

I think that tOSU will be solid on defense like they are every year. No they won't be like last year but Tressell is one of the best coaches around. Tex will lose 1 game this year b/c lets face it VY was that offensive catalyst and now its gone. They are capable o still being dominate on offense hwoever they wil not be inVINCEable
 
osu will be a dominant force on the offensive end and shoudl put up 40 a game. i look for them to be like nd last year except a better defense. as for the game itself i'm hoping for someone to catch +4 points and i will take them whoever it is just on value.
 
TroyStacks said:
osu will be a dominant force on the offensive end and shoudl put up 40 a game. i look for them to be like nd last year except a better defense. as for the game itself i'm hoping for someone to catch +4 points and i will take them whoever it is just on value.
Click to expand...

I agree w/ the forty...That's why I like OSU in week one...giving 18.5, I see no way they dont' put up 40 vs any MAC school, despite NIU being the class of the league...I don't think NIU gets to 22, so I see a cover there...

As for the Texas line, I don't think you'll catch 4..I would expect it to be in the PK to 2 range....
 
In fact, I just checked sportsbook.com future games of the year lines and they're offering OSU as a one pt chalk right now....
 
JumpOnBoard said:
In fact, I just checked sportsbook.com future games of the year lines and they're offering OSU as a one pt chalk right now....
Click to expand...

That's what I had heard the future for this game was as well.
beer.gif
 
jump, good stuff on your Buckeyes. What's the word on Chris Wells. Just to let you know every educated Hornfan is more worried about him then any other player on the field. Kinda crazy for a true frosh eh? Texas fans just know what a big bruiser between the tackles can do to this defense.
 
playwithme, no doubt about the OL put into the NFL by OU. I guess the moto is stick with it and you'll get there but some of these kids are showing no heart.

These are the Bob Stoops OL in the NFL. Two were drafted this year. I might be missing one or two?

Jamal Brown
Chris Chester
Davin Joseph
Stockar Mcdougle
Wes Simms
 
USC #2.. I think their wr core is better than 50% of the NFL wr's

How can you really compare a Collegiate core to an NFL core?

Compare apples to apples.
 
Austintx_05 said:
USC #2.. I think their wr core is better than 50% of the NFL wr's

How can you really compare a Collegiate core to an NFL core?

Compare apples to apples.
Click to expand...

Mike Williams sure supports your argument...that's for sure...
 
Mattingly said:
Notre Dame and USC have less than zero on defense

ND might in fact be the most overrated team in the past 10 years

every game will be in the 30's to 40's with them
Click to expand...


I must disagree Matt. The coaching knowledge (Charlie Weis) is superior now at Notre Dame. And try to remember the Patriot domination on defense. They kept on winning superbowls and titles with backup players.

Second year - with a new coach, always improves on defense. We'll see. I say the average less than 22 points per game on "D".shake
 
Austintx_05 said:
USC #2.. I think their wr core is better than 50% of the NFL wr's

How can you really compare a Collegiate core to an NFL core?

Compare apples to apples.
Click to expand...

Well as far as talent goes there is no comparison in college.

Fred Davis was the #1 wr prospect in hs and has put on 40 lbs and is now tight end.
Jarret is 100x better than Mike Williams and was the second most dominant guy in college football last year behind Calvin Johnson. Then throw in Steve Smith and Patrick Turner and yes they are comparable to the bottom half of the NFL since all of these guys are first round picks.
 
JumpOnBoard said:
don't make the PSU fans throw up.....:pouty:
Click to expand...

:hairout:

On the bright side we still got D-Will and Norwood and Butler...

Seriously though, watch out for Penn St.

Morelli's got a cannon...just wish he could get another game in before he has to go to Notre Dame...

(by the way, take the over in that game...i dont care if its 75)
 
How come my Miami 'Canes are not in the top 6? Ha ha...I understand.
 
Smokedawg said:
:hairout:

On the bright side we still got D-Will and Norwood and Butler...

Seriously though, watch out for Penn St.

Morelli's got a cannon...just wish he could get another game in before he has to go to Notre Dame...

(by the way, take the over in that game...i dont care if its 75)
Click to expand...

I was surprised w/ that PSU/ND early line...15 sure looks like a ton..
 
Tuesday, July 25, 2006

Slim-Fast or Just Slim and Fast?




Had it not been for all the interest in the offseason physical development of Adrian Peterson, we wouldn't be posting these reported shots of Oklahoma offensive lineman George Robinson. Frankly, we find these before and after shots of Robinson hard to believe (double-click on the image for a closer inspection). If true, and again, the changes here are so dramatic we remain skeptical, what the hell is going on at Oklahoma? The photo on the left, said to taken a year ago, shows a 6-foot-5, 350 pound Robinson. The photo on the right is said to be of the new Robinson, minus 50 pounds. Now Oklahoma's website currently lists Robinson at 332, so again, proceed with caution. Maybe somebody from the Oklahoma camp can enlighten us as to what is going on in Norman. Then again, maybe they don't want to....

This is what Stoops conditioning program for the linemen does if they stay in it long enough to see the results. Robinson's not the first one to turn out this way. This will also give you some kind of indication as to what the offensive line has been doing for Oklahoma during the offseason.
 
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hmmmm... no mention of the SEC wow !!! Florida pretty strong coming uin under myers 2nd year

and you always got to watch for south carolina....i'm sorry htat wont happen again
 
Haha you always have to watch for south carolina?? Are you kidding me? Please say yes..
 
none of these teams in this thread mentioned will win it all...that much parity this year...wide open.
 
JumpOnBoard said:
what u thinking about the opener w/ the Noles??
Click to expand...

Well the 'Canes might need the Orange Bowl magic to get it done. Liking the -3.5. Looking at a 'Canes win 17-7.
 
abcs--thelegend said:
The real question to me is when will Miami step it up? Losing to Tech at home.. CMON!!
Click to expand...

funny u should say that abcs.

their defense wil be as good as they normally are this year.

they already have one of the best TE's and prolly THE best catching TE in college in Greg Olsen.

the offensive line I know will be loads better after former cane linemen, Mario cristobal, has taken over. he was a greta one and he will show them the way. nice hire here Coker.

what the canes need this year is some consistency at WR. it has truly been their achillies heel when Wright's had the oppurtuntiy to throw the ball. i guess you could say the achilles heel was the O-Line. no pass protection, might as well just punt on 1st down.

I expect a one loss season this year. schedule mathcups are a positive with FSU, BC and Va Tech at home. GT or UVa away is their hardset in conference away game. ought to be big things, but you never know till the smoke clears.




anyways, going to laugh my self crazy after UM beats the shit out of Free Shoes in the monday nighter.
 
tiger hater said:
hmmmm... no mention of the SEC wow !!! Florida pretty strong coming uin under myers 2nd year

and you always got to watch for south carolina....i'm sorry htat wont happen again
Click to expand...


i'd may agree wiht you on Fla but their schedule is sooo dman hard. seems like they have to go to Tenn, Auburn, LSU and Ala. then Geo (which they always seem to beat) in Jax.

how can u not look at those games and say, "good luck not losing at least three of those.

i'll also go as far to say as long as Leak is the QB in that system, they'll never get to the championship game. he's a good one, but not under Myer. remember last year when they finally started playing Gator football whem Myer dumbed down the offensive playbook.
 
Fondybadger said:
forgot the north carolina man is a miami football fan...
Click to expand...

HA!

I could bang out the UNC and ECU football teams too but nobody would give a rats ass about that!!

although I will tell everybody to not sleep on ECU this season.

after losing to Marshall in in the GMAC x amt of yrs ago (Fatwhich vs Garrard) the Pirates will be making more opponents than not walk the plank this season and attempt to backdoor themselves into a shitty bowl game. please jump on the Pirates +11.5 in the seaosn opener at Navy. One thing the Pirates went out and did, per coach Holtz, was get them some good LB's (3 of them) to shore up that run defense. it was badly needed.

also UNC should be avg this year too. 8-4 would be aweosme but 7-5 to 5-7 is more reralistic. their defense has finally gotten to respectabitlity with the secondary being better than the front 7. new QB takes the helm this year and that is always scary. hopefully Jesse Holley will get off his sorry ass and over achieve at WR. Barrington Edwards, LSU transfer form a few years back, is supposedly in really good shape and will look to "RAM" the defenders straight on Jerome Bettis stylee according to coach Bunting this afternoon on 850.

wonder what the wolfpuppies are going to look like this year!? prolly more like Miss Wolf as opposed to Mr Wolf! :down:
 
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