A-Roid tested positive for steriods in 03

I read an article about two years ago in ESPN the Magazine (of all places) that made the case for legalizing steroids, mostly for the sake of football.

Basically what the guy was saying was, look, steroids not only help you heal faster, if used properly can lessen the toll the game takes on your body. And the guy had a good point. Perhaps the only good point I've ever seen made in that magazine, but I digress.

The problem we have now is that guys juice too much. They get too big. They abuse them in an effort to become what Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa became, what Barry Bonds is.

But if they instead were supervised and used them in a way that would help them live longer than they do (NFL players, in particular, have a shorter than average life-span), but lessen the toll the game takes on their bodies, why not? As JP says above, you know a lot of them are already doing them and look at how violent football has become. These guys are so much faster and stonger than ever, doing things the body simply wasn't built for.

I don't know if legalizing them is the answer, but there is a fair discussion out there to be made for it.
 
JPicks said:
"Puroids"??? I've been saying that A-Roids has been doping forever but nobody ever wants to listen. Same goes for Pujols. Honestly I'm a bit tired of all the hitters getting railroaded though. They've also been hitting off of pitchers who were all juiced up for the last 10 years. Personally none of the roid scandal bothers me much. The only thing that really bothers me is that the MLB gets run through the stringer while the NFL gets a free pass. If you don't think that a great % of NFL players are on roids you're crazy. When you start offering players tens of millions of dollars to be the most extreme athletes in the world they are bound to cross moral lines to attain the most fame and wealth as possible.
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NFL = HGH Monsters, too....................................:cheers:
 
ARod has been a "can't miss" talent since high school...makes you wonder whether the 'roids even gave him much advantage.

ARod = $200M SKILLS & $.10 BRAIN

Very interested in hearing the other 103 names........:shake:
 
Apparently he's admitting to it now.

Peter Gammons has the interview on ESPN. Not sure if they wait to run the whole thing at 6:00 EST or if they have to run it sooner because it's going to be the story of the day.
 
They just ran it.

He blames the culture and the pressure of being such a high pick.

He owns up to it, though. He says he doesn't even exactly know what he took. Granted that was some time ago, but that you don't even know what you took, that ain't good.
 
Joe Public said:
They just ran it.

He blames the culture and the pressure of being such a high pick.

He owns up to it, though. He says he doesn't even exactly know what he took. Granted that was some time ago, but that you don't even know what you took, that ain't good.
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It seems that if you admit to it, people forget about it alot faster. Ala Phelps x2
 
(shrug) non story, all within the rules of Mr Selig...

there wasnt a firm drug testing policy until 3 full years after this.

Personal mistake... sure, if thats what he feels.
 
Yeah, he had two choices.

1. Admit it and maybe people will let him off the hook.

2. Deny, deny, deny. It's one test from six years ago.

At first I thought it might be smart to deny it. Because it was so long ago you might be able to get away with it. But no one was ever going to truly believe you simply because everybody from that era is tainted.

So I think he made the right call. Say it was a long time ago. Say everybody was doing it. Say when you wised up you realized that clean was the only way to play the game that you love and respect, blah, blah, blah.
 
Joe Public said:
Yeah, he had two choices.

1. Admit it and maybe people will let him off the hook.

2. Deny, deny, deny. It's one test from six years ago.

At first I thought it might be smart to deny it. Because it was so long ago you might be able to get away with it. But no one was ever going to truly believe you simply because everybody from that era is tainted.

So I think he made the right call. Say it was a long time ago. Say everybody was doing it. Say when you wised up you realized that clean was the only way to play the game that you love and respect, blah, blah, blah.
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exactly, and this will be a story next week when they report, but people will forgive and forget it.
 
a-rod and his agent handled this situation as best they could, admit to the wrongdoing and people will forget. This will be a story for a few weeks and will be done by opening day. I will say that I won't be surprised by any names released from this list or from the investigations.
 
ya know what...good for him for admitting it

at least hes got half a brain and saw the bonds/clemens defense gets you nowhere
 
Yeah, I think it's safe to say this was all orchestrated. His first comment was literally "I'm not saying anything."

Why?

Because that's what his agent and his people told him to say. Of course, they probably didn't mean it literally, but hey, you know, he's an athlete for crying out loud.

So then they took a step back and looked at the track record. As Smoke says, look at what denial has done for Clemens, Bonds, Palmero, McGuire, etc. Then look at what admitting something, anything, and saying your sorry has done for guys like Pettite, Giambi, etc.

So they crafted a 'yeah, I did it, and I take responsibility for it, but it wasn't really my fault' response.

Now the media will lap it up, beat it into the ground, and then they'll turn their attention back to the other 103 names that weren't released. A-Fraud will get left alone and by the time the season starts people will barely remember it and that's only if they were paying attention this week at all.
 
"i didnt know what i was getting into. i didnt know what i was using"

yeah, you just let someone stick a needle in your ass, tested positive for not one but TWO steroids which you were stacking/cycling, and you didnt know what they were.

fucking lying piece of shit. fuck a-fraud

and even though i have a lot of respect for him, fuck tim kirkjian too. "we're talking about the best player of our time".

yeah, what did he bat last year without roids, like .270?
 
also interesting was how he said he hasnt juiced since 2003.

so because he hasnt tested positive since then, that must mean hes been clean since. especially looking at the dropoff in production and awful year he had last year, can anyone honeslty NOT attribute that to being off the juice?

bonds x 2, imo.
 
theres already a thread on this, youre about 3 days late. but good try.

"who cares"-

well lets see, the fact that he is actively pursuing bonds HR record and has been called the best player in the game right now.

but youre right, this isnt a big deal, and it doesnt taint the numbers he put up at all, who cares.
 
I think I know what Jimbo means to an extent...I grew up my whole life knowing the great, important numbers in baseball...baseball was just always a numbers sport.

I knew and admired 755, 714, 660

61 and 60..

then 66 and 70...


Now, I can't even tell you what the new marks are...81 i believe...no clue what the new total number is..

I just don't care anymore...

I still love baseball. Love it. Hope my daughter loves sitting in a stadium with me and the wife in Cincy eating peanuts while I drink a cold beer...it's peaceful and great. The Reds sucks but man is it the best...numbers just don't mean anything anymore.

The game itself is still great though. At least imo.
 
CapTwo said:
theres already a thread on this, youre about 3 days late. but good try.

"who cares"-

well lets see, the fact that he is actively pursuing bonds HR record and has been called the best player in the game right now.

but youre right, this isnt a big deal, and it doesnt taint the numbers he put up at all, who cares.
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he admitted to it 3 days ago??, sorry missed it
 
It really only matters if you care about baseball. But MLB has become such a charade that it's all part of the show now. This is just like another plot device to get you through until opening day.
 
The game itself is still great though. At least imo.

Agreed. If you break it down to just the game, it is a great way to spend a weekend afternoon.
 
JumpOnBoard said:
I think I know what Jimbo means to an extent...I grew up my whole life knowing the great, important numbers in baseball...baseball was just always a numbers sport.

I knew and admired 755, 714, 660

61 and 60..

then 66 and 70...


Now, I can't even tell you what the new marks are...81 i believe...no clue what the new total number is..

I just don't care anymore...

I still love baseball. Love it. Hope my daughter loves sitting in a stadium with me and the wife in Cincy eating peanuts while I drink a cold beer...it's peaceful and great. The Reds sucks but man is it the best...numbers just don't mean anything anymore.

The game itself is still great though. At least imo.
Click to expand...

:shake:....everything you said i agree w/ 1000%...all the guys were doing..who cares..best game out there,hands down
 
and jump...for me its simple..i hate cold weather and love being outside..its the onlygame we can enjoy without freezing our balls off, nice warm summer night,or there is nothing better then the beginning of season, spring is upon us..just great, as for the game itself imo its the most team oriented game,which is why i like it so much
 
Ive said I think in each of these threads that comparing eras is so pointless.

Each guy who was taking steroids pre 2006 Im fine with, it was within the rules and pushed aside by MLB even though they knew there was an issue... they were selling tickets and selling the game. I do not think it was cheating anybody, nor the game. Its simply the steroids era... we are in the post steroids era now.

Hell, look at Babe Ruth, there is documentation that he hit 104 HR's in a season but the rules were different. It was the pre fair pole era... and on top of that HR's that went over the fence in fair territory and landed foul were a foul ball.

Are players cheating by using maple / sand bats that players in the 50's and 60's didnt have access too? or that polayers today can watch countless hours of video?

different eras... different game... different records.
 
Yup...the pitchers numbers in the dead ball era are never scrutinized..

we've had dead ball eras
we've had juiced ball eras
now we have juiced bi's, tri's, and chest era


Whatever...move on...

The sport remains the same.
 
so what about you guys that played sports in HS or college?

it comes down to the fact that people will do anything to get an advantage over the next man.

what about the guy that WASNT juicing, and stayed out of the limelight, and never got the recognition he deserved? is it fair to him that he existed in the "steroids era", but wasnt a believer in using artificial substances, and got shitted on as a result?
 
Santa, the problem with your argument isn't that it's wrong, it's actually well-reasoned and makes perfect sense. The problem is that it's nuanced in a culture (America) and more particularly in a game (baseball) that relies on basically black and white logic.

That's why all these stats have so much meaning in baseball, because that's how they define pretty much everything.

Think about the discussions you hear about baseball vs. something like say basketball or even hockey. How many times do you hear people talk about seeing someone play in baseball as opposed to basketball, "oh, you had to see Jordan in his prime," or "if you saw Mario Lemieux in person you'd know what I'm talking about" vs. the arguments in baseball. More often than not, those arguments come right down to numbers, .278 vs. .289 vs. on base % vs. slugging % vs. RBIs vs. and on and on and on.

People will argue stats in other sports, no doubt, but nowhere near the level they will in baseball because, for whatever reason, that's what baseball has defined itself by, Sabermetrics.
 
I don't care about that in all honesty...

For the love of the game is great.

I'm just not naive enough to believe that the AAA retread that keeps getting passed over by others that he knows aren't on the up, has a wife and two kids, is making 36k a year on a road to nowhere riding on a bus four times a week to Durham, NC, isn't expected to do the same thing.

It was an era IMO...the hope is that era is over.
 
CapTwo said:
so what about you guys that played sports in HS or college?

it comes down to the fact that people will do anything to get an advantage over the next man.

what about the guy that WASNT juicing, and stayed out of the limelight, and never got the recognition he deserved? is it fair to him that he existed in the "steroids era", but wasnt a believer in using artificial substances, and got shitted on as a result?
Click to expand...

Honestly, if its so rampant that people knew it was going on daily like is being reported then yeah, it is fair to them. They made a personal choice to choose themselves over getting better / stronger... Health over a contract. To each his own. But it was within the rules, and you could do as you pleased.

If it was me, and I was fine with the personal consequences and it meant meddling in mediocrity or possible record and HOF credentials, hell yeah, sign me up. Personally Im not OK with it, but I am fine with those that did... when it was not illegal.

the cream still rises to the top... steroids dont make you see a fastball or a slider in 0.004 of a second, or the location. THey make you hit it harder and recover faster. the skill set is still there.
 
Joe Public said:
Santa, the problem with your argument isn't that it's wrong, it's actually well-reasoned and makes perfect sense. The problem is that it's nuanced in a culture (America) and more particularly in a game (baseball) that relies on basically black and white logic.

That's why all these stats have so much meaning in baseball, because that's how they define pretty much everything.

Think about the discussions you hear about baseball vs. something like say basketball or even hockey. How many times do you hear people talk about seeing someone play in baseball as opposed to basketball, "oh, you had to see Jordan in his prime," or "if you saw Mario Lemieux in person you'd know what I'm talking about" vs. the arguments in baseball. More often than not, those arguments come right down to numbers, .278 vs. .289 vs. on base % vs. slugging % vs. RBIs vs. and on and on and on.

People will argue stats in other sports, no doubt, but nowhere near the level they will in baseball because, for whatever reason, that's what baseball has defined itself by, Sabermetrics.
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Totally agree, but the stats being looked at were able to be increased with a certain substance. Put steroids in the 60's and I can pretty much with certainty say we'd have a steroid era then too. But we didnt, so we can't

What if players in the 30's knew about what working out daily did to your skills? would they do it? Thing is as days go by, technology and knowledge are always moving forward and we need to move forward with it.

Is it fair to Jack Nicholas that Tiger is hitting a driver and a ball with materials that weren't even around when he was playing? Sure it is... its the era they both played in (and golf is a #'s driven sport :P)
 
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I actually agree, I just think that the argument is never going to die because what baseball kind of lays its foundation on, numbers, has been shaken by this. Because you don't know who's clean and who's not they're in a bind as to how to write it down in the ledger. And that f**ks 'em all up.

Also, the really sad thing is, I know guys today who played major college baseball who admit freely that if they thought steroids would have them playing professionally they would both have done it then and do it now. And they say this without hesitation and knowing all the health risks. The money and the rewards are just that great to some of 'em.
 
Santacapper said:
the cream still rises to the top... steroids dont make you see a fastball or a slider in 0.004 of a second, or the location. THey make you hit it harder and recover faster. the skill set is still there.
Click to expand...

:shake:

Definitely agree with you there. No steroid is going to enhance a players instinct or give them a feel for the game. Thats something thats in you. You either have it, or you dont.

But like you said, it will make you drive the ball farther or increase velocity on a pitchers fastball. And in a sport that we all agreed is very "numbers-driven", and statistics are everything, i just cant look past the fact that roids created a very uneven playing field.
If you took them, you were on par with all the other big name athletes.
If you made the right moral decision, and didnt, then well, youre SOL.

And like jump said, its an era, hopefully one that will end and we can move on from.
 
ok, heres where i stand on this, your going to tell me he and bonds wouldnt of been one of the best or the best baseball player without juicing????, my hand eye coordination sucks, so if i inject some roids im gonna be less clumsy??we can go on and on..but bottom line is, i dont care, so the guy hit HR an extra 10 ft, good for him..ok you can say well it makes him play longer,or a hr might of fell short costing them the game,costing another team a playoff spot,.here is my final bottom line..hundreds of players have been linked to this and/or accused,and ill bet every single team has had players using,EVERY TEAM..the way it comes across to me is,at the time it was a unwritten rule to use,as long as its outta sight outta mind,kinda like the nude threads at CTG,sure it goes on behind the scenes and is normal for us,but how many people are open to their wives about it?? steroids do not work unless you put in the extra effort..bottom line, i know probably 3 people using them right now,who work out daily, can you notice a difference,..i also know lazy fucks who tried them so they can get big without working out..and honestly there isnt really a difference...i can just about gurantee you man ram used them,he was tiny as hell when he was here,thome as well..all it did was make for better baseball..outlaw and test now but whats in the past let go, technology is so good now and will continue to get better are they gonna outlaw the new best vitamin? or maybe redbull or stackers cause it pumps you up and thats unfair
 
santa i think you said what i was trying to say without my rambling and in a much shorter version
 
If you made the right moral decision, and didnt, then well, youre SOL.
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IMO its alot easier to make a moral decision where we stand. If somebody came to me and said, this may not be an easy choice but if you choose it you'll make 20K more a year and make the sales guy HOF. I'd have to think.

but if Im in a MLB players shoes, and somebody says take this, its within the rules, we know there are side effects, one being you're going to make 20+ million and break records.... to me, being a competitor (you have to be to play at that level) the decision becomes a whole lot more clear.
 
your going to tell me he and bonds wouldnt of been one of the best or the best baseball player without juicing????,

I think the point is we'll never know.

I do, however think you have a very good point about guys like Bonds vs. guys like McGuire. Obviously, for the most part, Bonds has used 'roids pretty well in that he hasn't been as injured until he was in his late 30s. He had full years on whatever he was taking where he was an every day player. Meanwhile, McGuire had like two really huge years where he was all Popeye'd out then his body started to break down on him because he was so obviously over-doing it.

In a way, A-Fraud may even be better at it in that, knowing what we know now, he cycled on them for those three years (or more) to get to a good level where he could play every day and generate great numbers and it hasn't seemed to really take a huge toll on his body--and he looks like he's got a lot of career still left in him.
 
jumping outside of the steroid box, the other problem i have, with this whole thing, is the same problem i had with the bonds situation.

how can someone, who is considered an icon and role-model to some, address the public, and blatantly LIE like that.

"im guilty of being naive and not knowing what i was ingesting"
what a fucking crock of shit. he was stacking. he tested positive for TWO steroids. he knew exactly what he was taking.
i also dont believe 2003 is the last time he juiced, but we cant prove that, so i guess thats a moot point.

i understand that most of us would have done the same thing, you have to cover your own ass, and I understand how PR works--- damage control. and how to put a spin on something that makes the situation either more favorable for you or makes you seem more innocent then you actually are (a-frauds situation)
 
Well, he lied twice actually.

He lied in that 60 Minutes interview from a year or so back. Flat out. Did you take steroids, "no." Liar.

Now, what I imagine he'll say when pressed on this point is, 'well, there was no policy back then, everything was going on, who knew what was what. But now that there is a policy, ever since there's been a policy, I've been clean. That's why I said what I did.'
 
I didnt read through all the pages but I just have one thing to say.

Why they fvck do they first say they didnt then afterwards they come out and say they did and are sorry!! I'm soo sick and tired of this crap!! All the real fans of baseball need to just stop going to the games. All over the country, lets see who will give these guys $20 million per year then!!

I'm out
 
He's a fucken liar. He straight up lied to that lady interviewer in 2007 CLEARLY statingn he never used steroids. He's just covering his ass. And to people saying to give him credit for telling the truth, fuck that. He sees what's happening to Bonds and Clemens and doesn't want the same situation. But I do agree, telling the truth is way better then the denial route.
 
barmeezee said:
he keeeps talking around alot of shit gammons is asking
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:shake:

Stuttering like a motherfucker too.

GUILTY lil bitch.

also i love how he said people were using stuff from GNC and that he didnt know what he was taking.
and that he didnt even know he was using steroids, till the chic from SI approached him a couple of days ago and told him he came up positive

yeah, the test was 5 years ago, and he didnt know he was using steroids till last week:36_11_6:
 
Almost guarantee you this thing lets him off the hook in the public eye.

But if you use your brain you know that he's only telling you part of the truth. That he doesn't 'know' what he took is bulls**t. The reality is he probably took enough different combinations of things that this is in a weird way accurate, but he won't pick one because what if he picks the wrong one.

I love the fact that he keeps coming back to all the stuff you can buy from GNC. They preped him well for this interview.
 
Funny thing is, New Yorkers don't care about any of this s**t. They care that he can't drive in a run once September starts.
 
not necessarily true, joe. but im not sure if you were referring to the media, or fans.

the post and times have been BLASTING him this week with a-roid headlines
 
See, he just said it, he doesn't want to talk about the specific test until he sees it. Because he doesn't want to start talking about the wrong drug.

Credit to Gammons and ESPN for pulling up the 60 Minutes interview. It makes him look like a complete hypocrite. Smart idea to own up to it and try to immediately move on.

He basically started the sentence responding and finished it talking about CC Sebathia.
 
the post and times have been BLASTING him this week with a-roid headlines

That's the Post, though. It's sensationalism. They'll rip him for a week, then they'll get back to ripping the Knicks.

Once baseball actually starts I think it'll be an occasional joke, but I think this gets him off. At least with a lot of NY fans. Not necessarily hardcore baseball fans, but average New Yorkers? They just want to win.
 
At the end of the day its just entertainment, so I really dont care what he did and how he got to doing it. The only known Pirate to have taken steriods is Matt Lawton and he sucked, so go figure
 
Wow, he really went after the messenger there. Not very cool. Even if she is stalking him in a way, she's a reporter and she busted your lying *ss.
 
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