wiseplayer
Pretty much a regular
Lmao. How did he go from this All World looking player to what we’re seeing now? Isn’t he in a contract year?
49ers vs. Chiefs Discussion Thread
- Thread starter VirginiaCavs
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When they lost 3 in a row and made a trade I swear you were saying chase young was going to fix their problems
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
Liked him for a 3rd, for sure. A free 3rd round pick at that - they'll get it back when they don't re-sign him.
Run defense wasn't the concern at the time so I'm not sure chapo
DOUBLEUP4LIFE
Pretty much a regular
Heading into the 2023 NFL playoffs, the three referees most likely to officiate the Super Bowl were Bill Vinovich, John Hussey, and Shawn Hochuli. It’s no surprise five of the seven Super Bowl officials are members are from these crews.
Two members apiece are from the Bill Vinovich and Shawn Hochuli crews.
The remaining three officials are from the John Hussey, Tra Blake, and Land Clark officiating crews.
These five crews represent 30% of all officiating crews in the NFL, which is a key number when detailing the following penalty categories.
The Super Bowl officiating team was responsible for 47% of illegal use of hands penalties in the 2023 NFL season.
The five crews associated with the Super Bowl are responsible for 49% of ineligible man downfield penalties in 2023.
The Super Bowl crew is responsible for 40% of unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. More specifically, the John Hussey and Land Clark crews are responsible for 40% of unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. The side judge and back judge in the Super Bowl are from those crews.
The Super Bowl crew is responsible for just 19% of offensive offsides calls.
40% of illegal blindside blocks were assessed by these five crews in 2023.
The Hochuli and Vinovich officials, who will be in charge of adjudicating line of scrimmage infractions, have called a well below-average ratio of illegal formation penalties in 2023.
Penalty Tendencies:
Head Referee: Bill Vinovich
Vinovich averaged 11.59 penalties per game in 2023/24, ranking him eighth overall out of 17 referees. This was slightly above the league average of 11.32 per game. This is the highest average from Vinovich since 2019, his last Super Bowl season, when he averaged 11.47
Since his first Super Bowl in 2014 (Patriots vs. Seahawks), Vinovich has officiated 12 playoff games
Vinovich-led crews have averaged 9.5 penalties per game for 78.4 yards in those 12 contests
The philosophy of Vinovich crews is to let teams play, if at all possible. If there is one play that encapsulates Vinovich’s crews, it’s the New Orleans no call in the 2018 NFC Championship between the Rams and Saints. An obvious defensive pass interference was not called in the late stages of that contest. That same philosophy was to the Bengals benefit in the 2021 AFC Championship game at the Chiefs, when extracurricular activity by the defenses was not called
Vinovich is the first referee in NFL history to officiate a Super Bowl rematch. He officiated the Chiefs vs. 49ers at the end of the 2019 season
The Vinovich crew averaged the fewest offensive holding penalties per game in the 2023 NFL season, continuing a decade-long trend with his officiating crews
Over the past decade, Vinovich has averaged 31% fewer offensive holding penalties than the NFL average during that span
Dating back to his first Super Bowl (Patriots vs. Seahawks), Vinovich is averaging 37% fewer offensive holding calls than his already low regular season average in this category. That is a 12-game sample size
Vinovich-led crews have called a lower percentage of penalties than the league average on linebackers and defensive lines over the past few seasons
Umpire: Shawn Hochuli crew
The primary job is assessing line play penalties: offensive holding, illegal blocks, illegal hands to the face, etc.
Hochuli’s crew assessed 43% of their overall penalties in two areas: the offensive and defensive lines. That had them co-ranked second overall in the NFL, behind only Ron Torbert
Hochuli’s crew ranked between No. 2 & No. 5 for offensive holding throughout the 2023 NFL season. However, their average declined over the final month and into the playoffs. They finished No. 6 overall in this category
Hochuli’s crew ranked No. 1 for roughing the passer penalties in 2023. Conversely, Vinovich led crews called fewer than any referee in this category since 2018
Hochuli co-ranked number one for illegal use of hands with the Vinovich crew in 2023. Additionally, the side judge (John Hussey crew) and field judge (Tra Blake crew) ranked in the top five for illegal use of hands infractions. It’s a low-volume penalty, but the makeup of this crew certainly put this infraction being called a higher-than-normal likelihood
Field, line, and back judge: John Hussey, Tra Blake, and Land Clark crews
All three of these crews called a below-average percentage of overall penalties on tight ends in 2023
These three crews were responsible for 24% of defensive holding penalties in 2023. The Blake crew ranked No. 1, and the Clark crew ranked fourth in this category
The 49ers and Chiefs offenses are two of the biggest beneficiaries of defensive holding penalties in the NFL. Both rank in the top five. However, both the 49ers and Chiefs defensive units are two of the least penalized for defensive holding infractions
Per sharp football analysis
Two members apiece are from the Bill Vinovich and Shawn Hochuli crews.
The remaining three officials are from the John Hussey, Tra Blake, and Land Clark officiating crews.
These five crews represent 30% of all officiating crews in the NFL, which is a key number when detailing the following penalty categories.
The Super Bowl officiating team was responsible for 47% of illegal use of hands penalties in the 2023 NFL season.
The five crews associated with the Super Bowl are responsible for 49% of ineligible man downfield penalties in 2023.
The Super Bowl crew is responsible for 40% of unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. More specifically, the John Hussey and Land Clark crews are responsible for 40% of unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. The side judge and back judge in the Super Bowl are from those crews.
The Super Bowl crew is responsible for just 19% of offensive offsides calls.
40% of illegal blindside blocks were assessed by these five crews in 2023.
The Hochuli and Vinovich officials, who will be in charge of adjudicating line of scrimmage infractions, have called a well below-average ratio of illegal formation penalties in 2023.
Penalty Tendencies:
Head Referee: Bill Vinovich
Vinovich averaged 11.59 penalties per game in 2023/24, ranking him eighth overall out of 17 referees. This was slightly above the league average of 11.32 per game. This is the highest average from Vinovich since 2019, his last Super Bowl season, when he averaged 11.47
Since his first Super Bowl in 2014 (Patriots vs. Seahawks), Vinovich has officiated 12 playoff games
Vinovich-led crews have averaged 9.5 penalties per game for 78.4 yards in those 12 contests
The philosophy of Vinovich crews is to let teams play, if at all possible. If there is one play that encapsulates Vinovich’s crews, it’s the New Orleans no call in the 2018 NFC Championship between the Rams and Saints. An obvious defensive pass interference was not called in the late stages of that contest. That same philosophy was to the Bengals benefit in the 2021 AFC Championship game at the Chiefs, when extracurricular activity by the defenses was not called
Vinovich is the first referee in NFL history to officiate a Super Bowl rematch. He officiated the Chiefs vs. 49ers at the end of the 2019 season
The Vinovich crew averaged the fewest offensive holding penalties per game in the 2023 NFL season, continuing a decade-long trend with his officiating crews
Over the past decade, Vinovich has averaged 31% fewer offensive holding penalties than the NFL average during that span
Dating back to his first Super Bowl (Patriots vs. Seahawks), Vinovich is averaging 37% fewer offensive holding calls than his already low regular season average in this category. That is a 12-game sample size
Vinovich-led crews have called a lower percentage of penalties than the league average on linebackers and defensive lines over the past few seasons
Umpire: Shawn Hochuli crew
The primary job is assessing line play penalties: offensive holding, illegal blocks, illegal hands to the face, etc.
Hochuli’s crew assessed 43% of their overall penalties in two areas: the offensive and defensive lines. That had them co-ranked second overall in the NFL, behind only Ron Torbert
Hochuli’s crew ranked between No. 2 & No. 5 for offensive holding throughout the 2023 NFL season. However, their average declined over the final month and into the playoffs. They finished No. 6 overall in this category
Hochuli’s crew ranked No. 1 for roughing the passer penalties in 2023. Conversely, Vinovich led crews called fewer than any referee in this category since 2018
Hochuli co-ranked number one for illegal use of hands with the Vinovich crew in 2023. Additionally, the side judge (John Hussey crew) and field judge (Tra Blake crew) ranked in the top five for illegal use of hands infractions. It’s a low-volume penalty, but the makeup of this crew certainly put this infraction being called a higher-than-normal likelihood
Field, line, and back judge: John Hussey, Tra Blake, and Land Clark crews
All three of these crews called a below-average percentage of overall penalties on tight ends in 2023
These three crews were responsible for 24% of defensive holding penalties in 2023. The Blake crew ranked No. 1, and the Clark crew ranked fourth in this category
The 49ers and Chiefs offenses are two of the biggest beneficiaries of defensive holding penalties in the NFL. Both rank in the top five. However, both the 49ers and Chiefs defensive units are two of the least penalized for defensive holding infractions
Per sharp football analysis
Loves2kickass
Here to cap the games
"We talked a little bit this morning," SuperBook executive director John Murray said of he and his risk team discussing a move. "We are still seeing most of our tickets on Kansas City, two-thirds of spread tickets are on the Chiefs. But our bigger tickets and most importantly our sharper players have been on San Francisco so far.
Frank Costanza
Co-Inventor of the Man's Bra
Great read on Vegas and the Super Bowl.
(Then Vegas Mayor) Goodman and his wife, Carolyn, who succeeded him as mayor in 2011, are big sports fans who fought to bring pro sports to Las Vegas for decades. "It was obvious that any city that was aspiring to be a world-class city needs major-league sports," Carolyn says. Shortly after becoming mayor in 1999, Oscar Goodman made the rounds with big-league commissioners.
He says he talked to then-NBA commissioner David Stern, who, according to Goodman, told the mayor that as long as the city had sports betting, it would happen "over my dead body." Goodman, an attorney who represented members of the mob before holding public office, joked that he knew people who could make that happen.
www.espn.com
(Then Vegas Mayor) Goodman and his wife, Carolyn, who succeeded him as mayor in 2011, are big sports fans who fought to bring pro sports to Las Vegas for decades. "It was obvious that any city that was aspiring to be a world-class city needs major-league sports," Carolyn says. Shortly after becoming mayor in 1999, Oscar Goodman made the rounds with big-league commissioners.
He says he talked to then-NBA commissioner David Stern, who, according to Goodman, told the mayor that as long as the city had sports betting, it would happen "over my dead body." Goodman, an attorney who represented members of the mob before holding public office, joked that he knew people who could make that happen.
What happens in Vegas? Remarkably, the Super Bowl
The NFL and Las Vegas's relationship has changed dramatically in two decades, from an iconic ad the league wouldn't run to the Super Bowl in Sin City.
skanless13
Fly, Eagles, Fly!
skanless13
Fly, Eagles, Fly!
Got a Screenshot before he changed it
mrtake
Looper for takeit
49ers not happy with the field surface at UNLV while the Chiefs get to practice at the Raiders facility.
How do they pick who gets to practice at the Raiders facility? Seems like a big advantage, no?
How do they pick who gets to practice at the Raiders facility? Seems like a big advantage, no?
C
C-70 Blues
Guest
Not trying to be a wiseguy but none of this matters. Nobody will be discussing this next Monday at this time.
mrtake
Looper for takeit
It doesn't matter than one team can practice on the same type of field that the game will be played on? Interesting.
C
C-70 Blues
Guest
The interesting part is something is reported in the media and you automatically believe it's 100% true.
C
C-70 Blues
Guest
The bullsh*t that is super bowl week has officially begun.:angryoldman:
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
It definitely matters and is worth a post on this topic. Regardless of what you think wiseguy.
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
This clown is simply trolling at this point. Ignore him.
I think it's a huge story and I'm a big surface guy. Chiefs have more experience on the actual field vs. Raiders and get a huge edge playing at the NFL practice facility vs. this trash UNLV slapstick solution.
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
It's grass on Sunday? I didn't know this.
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
Wow just looked into this.
That's big for 9ers to be playing on natural grass.
Chiefs are a good dome team and used to the Raiders surface.
KJ
Bump. Set. Shuma!
You don't remember the issues from last year? A lot of players said it was the worst surface they've ever played on, sliding all over the place.
They grew a separate field somewhere else in the Valley and had it brought in for the game even though the field at State Farm is natural grass and would have had plenty of time to grow as if it hadn't been played on. Guess this one is sitting just outside the stadium now and has been for a week, I didn't realize that Allegiant has the field tray outside of the stadium to do that.
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
I just naively assumed Raiders field was turf and the game would be turf. Guess they do both and because of LY they are bringing in the good stuff. Who knows. But turf isn't a 9ers strength so I suppose it's good it's on whatever this grass is. That is until the 9ers start slipping and I use that as an excuse
I still cannot get over how if you did not look at the -2 line and guessed based off of public / media perception you would think it was Chiefs -3 or -4. This is on top of the perceived slight of the field issues.
49ers somehow get to play the underdog card despite being favorites, I love it.
49ers somehow get to play the underdog card despite being favorites, I love it.
Capaholic
Proud Member of Chiefs Nation
I’ve seen more of this than I’ve seen that the Niners are some kind of underdog.
Attachments
Capaholic
Proud Member of Chiefs Nation
For as long as I can remember, the home team practices at the local teams facility. The visiting team practices at the local university.
emkee
The Truth Is Out There
Goodell basically admitting in his 'State of the League' talk that Taylor Swift is the best thing to happen to the league for a long time.
Get the teenage girls on board because that's what the league caters to now with all the new pussy ass rules.
Dude is a clown.
Flag football for girls...
Get the teenage girls on board because that's what the league caters to now with all the new pussy ass rules.
Dude is a clown.
Flag football for girls...
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
That looks fake.
emkee
The Truth Is Out There
Lot of gambling related questions about the integrity of the game.
Bro a sell-out.
Much preferred gambling when it was a fringe, shadow hobby.
Now that it's streamlined, I feel sorry for the kids that are gonna get hooked on this shit by all the charlatans that are out there.
Gonna be some scandals in the near future...
Bro a sell-out.
Much preferred gambling when it was a fringe, shadow hobby.
Now that it's streamlined, I feel sorry for the kids that are gonna get hooked on this shit by all the charlatans that are out there.
Gonna be some scandals in the near future...
G-Man
Pretty much a regular
FWIW...
In CLE, McCaffrey and Samuel both went out -(66% of the SF offense).. The Niners defense only allowed 19 pts. It was also the lowest yardage in the whole season for SF.
In The Baltimore game - SF had 5 turnovers and still out gained the Ravens by 90yds.
True score stat with turnovers and yardage showed that SF would have won that game 29-23.
During the season -the Niners defense played more playoff teams than KC and still only allowed only 18 pts per game,. There is a 1 pt difference with KC.
But the Chiefs have scored a full TD less this year against a soft schedule than last year.... and a full TD less this year per game than SF scored...
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
Rain game in Cleveland. Small hands.
Balty game went downhill quick after that first pick. Was a bad one.
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
2 things at once.
Like the Rock.
People are catching on.
Like the Rock.
People are catching on.
JohnnyGambler
Kevin Warren Fan Club Founder
As a Chiefs backer I LOVE that they were mercilessly booed on freaking media night. They realized right then and there this will be a true road game with 90% Niners fans.
Capaholic
Proud Member of Chiefs Nation
It was from the Carton Show. Not saying he’s reputable but it’s still a show
Idk. San Fran is not far. And a ticket to media night is significantly cheaper than a game ticket. The people I know that are going aren’t in LV yet. Add in that KC has done this 4 of the last 5 years, I’m not really that concerned with the crowd either way as a fellow backer.
Capaholic
Proud Member of Chiefs Nation
Capaholic
Proud Member of Chiefs Nation
Did they shut down Miami and then Buffalo and Baltimore on the road? Yes
Did SF have trouble stopping GB and Detroit at home? Yes
Not concerned about the 18 week schedule analysis. Who is playing better right now? Who has the better coach? Who has the better QB? Who has the experience?
mrtake
Looper for takeit
Right - the stadium has the same tray system as Zona and will have new grass for the game. Guessing it's closer to the turf at the Raiders training facility than the sod over turf at UNLV. Maybe it will or won't matter much but worth discussing
G-Man
Pretty much a regular
I showed why Detroit was hard to beat. The Lions had better stats offensively than KC does this year.
KC lost to Detroit and GB SU.
Also - I remember that SF was supposed to be the better team when Mahome won his first SB over SF, with less experience than Garoppolo.
This year KC has less offense (no Hill who had 105 yds in that game) and SF has added McCaffrey - and Purdy who has better stats this year than Mahome.
But - the regular season is a bigger example of how many playoff teams each team played and what the record was.
Both SF and KC had losses without all the starters playing but since KC lost SU to 2 teams that SF beat - still shows SF is the better team.
The one los to Baltimore by SF doesn't hold up because of the 5 SF turnovers IMO.
In the Chiefs win over Baltimore - the Ravens had 3 turnovers and one goal line fumble that changed the outcome. The Chiefs were gifted that win.
Im not discounting Mahomes talent but KC doesnt have McCaffrey and he is the main difference when you can see that Purdy and Mahome are about the same.
The Ravens shutout of KC in the 2nd half last week, gives the SF defense a solid game plan to duplicate what the Ravens did.
Much like when SF shut out Detroit in the 2nd half and allowed that late TD to get the ball.and run out the clock.
Lets hope there are no turnovers and that the winner will be who plays best.
BOL Cap.
Most definitely.
wiseplayer
Pretty much a regular
One of the more biased opinions I’ve read. I see no mention of what the Chiefs did to SF at SF last year?
When the 9ers lost to Baltimore this year and the Eagles last year in the NFC Title game it was because their Oline was overwhelmed which caused the turnovers and injury to Purdy. 9ers weakest links are their oline and secondary. Now we’re hearing effort being an issue on the 9ers dline.
I liken this game to the Chiefs-Ravens game. Who do you trust more in the spot, Purdy or Mahomes? For me it’s overwhelming Mahomes but I still can’t bet this coin flip. GL
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
9ers win going away if Purdy’s elbow didn’t snap.
Beating them by 30+ as a 10-1 fraud and breaking them, literally, for the rest of the year proved that.
As many have said, that NFCC is now illegitimate.
I go more by eyes than numbers and I was fine with what I saw from 9ers offense vs Balty. Everything moved fine. You just can’t have 3 tipped picks and 1 awful red zone interception. They got whooped but I like that I saw.
Lions 1h was far more concerning than either of those games. And the fact that was a week ago is alarming.
Inspekdah
My man, Michael Jordan!
Last year 9ers led 10-0 and then got absolutely destroyed. JuJu was huge. Pat went ham in that one. They dropped 44 and only ran 18 times. It was CMC’s first game and all we had was third string Jeff Wilson. No Armstead on defense. Line I remember screamed Chiefs win and they trucked us. Fortunately we had a home game at Rams the next week and a bye that rolled into 11 in a row.
C
C-70 Blues
Guest
I'm amazed at the amount of posters infatuated with what "should" have happened (in their opinion) rather then what "actually" happened (you know, the facts).
wiseplayer
Pretty much a regular
Agree. What happened was the 9ers were dominated and if we look at last years KC-SF game it looked like KC outcoaching and outplayed them.
jedi ninja
Larry the liberal
This is some "mental gymnastics" being used here to justify the pick.
You're selectively discounting some games, yet putting more importance on others with zero rhyme or reason.
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