2015 MLB HOF Inductions

[KJ]

We're old Tip. That's the appeal. And we gamble, although I don't so much on baseball.

It's a game that every club has to deal with, the decline in interest from the younger generation. And it has most of these teams playing mickey mouse game just trying to generate interest into coming to the event and not watching on tv.

 

[ArizonaKid]

No they haven't, you're still commenting on it. If you lost interest you sure as fuck wouldn't have an opinion on a gambling forum 15+ years later...you'd have checked out. Just quit with the drama.

I had watched over 2,000 games before 1998, watched less than 50 since the Diamondbacks and Red Sox won their Wod Series, and have been to one single game since 1998, in 2005 when Clemens and Maddux faced off as 300 game winners.

 

[tipyerbartender1]

We're old Tip. That's the appeal. And we gamble, although I don't so much on baseball.

It's a game that every club has to deal with, the decline in interest from the younger generation. And it has most of these teams playing mickey mouse game just trying to generate interest into coming to the event and not watching on tv.

All pro sports are dealing with this. I kind of get where people are coming from, it is fun and comfortable and safe to watch redzone, fuck around on CTG, drink beer … but there are some organic, almost orgasmic, sports moments though, you gotta be there. Sometimes they're little. You can't appreciate the crack of the mitt from the couch. Can't smell the peanuts. Can't catch a drunk falling from two rows above. (That last one's more Browns.)

 

[KJ]

All pro sports are dealing with this. I kind of get where people are coming from, it is fun and comfortable and safe to watch redzone, fuck around on CTG, drink beer … but there are some organic, almost orgasmic, sports moments though, you gotta be there. Sometimes they're little. You can't appreciate the crack of the mitt from the couch. Can't smell the peanuts. Can't catch a drunk falling from two rows above. (That last one's more Browns.)

I understand, but that's not par for the course. And it's an issue.

It's probably why landing tickets for virtually any sporting event isn't so difficult these days.

 

[Lareux]

Same then for Clemens ?

Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Schilling, and Raines all belong.

HOF voting has become an absolute joke and quite frankly ruined a great American sports institution. How Biggio can get in but Lou Whitaker can't even stay on the ballot past his first year is beyond comprehension.

If Piazza gets in, it seems more likely Roger and Bonds get in at some point imo. You can't let a guy in who admitted to using PEDs (who deserved it earlier w/o an admission), and then not let quite possibly the greatest pitcher and greatest player of their generation in the HOF. I'll preface this by saying I've always been a huge Bonds fan (he's been my favorite player since he came into the league pretty much), but Bonds is legitimately in the conversation for greatest player ever, let alone in his generation.

I agree though that the HOF voting has become an absolute joke.

 

[Lareux]

Sheffield deserves to be in as well, but he's caught up in the whole PED conversation. Dude hit 500 HRs, started his career as a SS, moved to 3B, then played OF for most of it.

Side note on Biggio, as I agree he was borderline, but I'm not upset he got in....shouldn't PEDs come into the conversation with him? He played in Houston where Caminiti, Bagwell, Clemens, and Pettite all played at some point...and all 4 of them are known/admitted PED users. It has to, at the very least, be brought up doesn't it?

 

[KJ]

Good, so we've established that Pete Rose should be in

Gambling on your team to win games sure as hell doesn't threaten the integrity of the game like Barry Bonds, who only holds records because Ken Griffey Jr didn't do the same shit he did (personal opinion obviously)

Let Pete in

 

[Lareux]

who becomes eligible next year?

Junior. Mixed bag after that.

It does become interesting again in 2017 though...you have Vladdy (who HAS to be in, should be first ballot imo), Posada, Man Ram (another one who HAS to be in, should be a first ballot, but may not even get in because of his PED usage), and Pudge. That's 4 guys right there who probably deserve to be in the HOF.

 

[Lareux]

Good, so we've established that Pete Rose should be in

Gambling on your team to win games sure as hell doesn't threaten the integrity of the game like Barry Bonds, who only holds records because Ken Griffey Jr didn't do the same shit he did (personal opinion obviously)

Let Pete in

Oh, of course Rose should be in. He's the fucking all time hits leader for fuck's sake....I couldn't care less about what he did as a manager. Put him in for his playing days only then, but he needs to be in.

I'm conflicted about Griffey, only because a lot of his injuries later in his career were injuries that could be attributed to PED usage. Not all of them...he freakishly broke his wrist one time crashing into a wall, but the hamstring pulling off the bone and those types of injuries raise some concern. Either way, he's a first ballot HOFer w/o question.

 

[KJ]

How is Posada or Pudge in if Piazza isn't?

 

[Lareux]

How is Posada or Pudge in if Piazza isn't?

Right.

But that's the committee's dilemma....let Piazza in because you can't have Jorge and/or Pudge in and not Piazza...but, if you let Piazza in, you have to let the other "PEDers" in as well. Can't have it both ways.

 

[ArizonaKid]

Good, so we've established that Pete Rose should be in

Gambling on your team to win games sure as hell doesn't threaten the integrity of the game like Barry Bonds, who only holds records because Ken Griffey Jr didn't do the same shit he did (personal opinion obviously)

Let Pete in

I hope someone burns the place down if they let him in. If you can't see that not gambling on your team to win is a clear signal and then altering the way your team plays on the days you do bet them isn't worthy of a lifetime ban you don't believe in any standards whatsoever.

 

[KJ]

Oh, of course Rose should be in. He's the fucking all time hits leader for fuck's sake....I couldn't care less about what he did as a manager. Put him in for his playing days only then, but he needs to be in.

I'm conflicted about Griffey, only because a lot of his injuries later in his career were injuries that could be attributed to PED usage. Not all of them...he freakishly broke his wrist one time crashing into a wall, but the hamstring pulling off the bone and those types of injuries raise some concern. Either way, he's a first ballot HOFer w/o question.

Those are quick heals if he's on PEDs, the kind Bonds took. That's a stone fucking joke, it's why Barry had such a fucking monster advantage over Junior...he could repair easily with the magic potion, and Ken chose not to.

They are pretty much polar opposites.

 

[Lareux]

I hope someone burns the place down if they let him in. If you can't see that not gambling on your team to win is a clear signal and then altering the way your team plays on the days you do bet them isn't worthy of a lifetime ban you don't believe in any standards whatsoever.

Sure, ban him from baseball, which they did. That shouldn't exclude him from the HOF though, based solely on what he accomplished on the field. That makes no sense to me.

 

[KJ]

I hope someone burns the place down if they let him in. If you can't see that not gambling on your team to win is a clear signal and then altering the way your team plays on the days you do bet them isn't worthy of a lifetime ban you don't believe in any standards whatsoever.

Good thing you won't be watching

 

[Lareux]

Those are quick heals if he's on PEDs, the kind Bonds took. That's a stone fucking joke, it's why Barry had such a fucking monster advantage over Junior...he could repair easily with the magic potion, and Ken chose not to.

They are pretty much polar opposites.

I don't disagree....but it's also known that Jr's injuries are/were consistent with someone using PEDs. Just saying there's another side to it really.

Tearing a muscle off of a bone is also not a "quick heal" regardless of what you're putting in your body.

 

[ArizonaKid]

Side note on Biggio, as I agree he was borderline, but I'm not upset he got in....shouldn't PEDs come into the conversation with him? He played in Houston where Caminiti, Bagwell, Clemens, and Pettite all played at some point...and all 4 of them are known/admitted PED users. It has to, at the very least, be brought up doesn't it?

Bagwell admitted ? I always assumed so but didn't remember him admitting to using PED'.

Looking up Posada' s numbers and didn't realize that Thurmond Munson wasn't in the HOG...surprising.

 

[KJ]

I don't disagree....but it's also known that Jr's injuries are/were consistent with someone using PEDs. Just saying there's another side to it really.

Tearing a muscle off of a bone is also not a "quick heal" regardless of what you're putting in your body.

unless you're enhancing your body, which means shit randomly doesn't tear. I get it.

 

[Lareux]

Bagwell admitted ? I always assumed so but didn't remember him admitting to using PED' s.

I don't think he admitted, no. I said "known/admitted"...wasn't Bagwell in one of the 'reports' that came out? He may not have been, and if he wasn't he isn't a "known" PED user for sure, but it seems to most people that you can safely assume he was using PEDs during his career.

 

[Lareux]

unless you're enhancing your body, which means shit randomly doesn't tear. I get it.

Yes, maybe...but at some point you muscle becomes too big/strong for you bones and they can just tear off the bone. Those injuries tend to happen more to those using PEDs than to those who don't use. That was simply my point about Griffey's injuries. I was just bringing it up because it's been brought up before by others when talking about this.

Surprised it didn't happen to Bonds at some point to be honest.

 

[KJ]

Let's call a spade a spade

At this point in my life, it doesn't sound like a bad idea

 

[Lareux]

Let's call a spade a spade

At this point in my life, it doesn't sound like a bad idea

Who are you referring to Bonds? Yeah, no shit he used PEDs...I didn't say otherwise.

Maybe you weren't referring to Bonds though.

 

[KJ]

Yes, maybe...but at some point you muscle becomes too big/strong for you bones and they can just tear off the bone. Those injuries tend to happen more to those using PEDs than to those who don't use. That was simply my point about Griffey's injuries. I was just bringing it up because it's been brought up before by others when talking about this.

Surprised it didn't happen to Bonds at some point to be honest.

But given my knowledge, which might be limited, it's the recovery that is enhanced more than anything. Not the sheer avoidance of injury. And maybe it helps you avoid injury, that I don't know. But I know it lets you be 35 years old again instead of 38.

 

[KJ]

Who are you referring to Bonds? Yeah, no shit he used PEDs...I didn't say otherwise.

Maybe you weren't referring to Bonds though.

I was referring to me

 

[KJ]

Softball season starts tomorrow night, time to get it on!!!

 

[Lareux]

But given my knowledge, which might be limited, it's the recovery that is enhanced more than anything. Not the sheer avoidance of injury. And maybe it helps you avoid injury, that I don't know. But I know it lets you be 35 years old again instead of 38.

Yeah, you're right. Again, I didn't say otherwise...I simply said that it's ALSO true that guys who use PEDs suffer injuries that Griffey suffered more often than guys who are clean.

 

[KJ]

Got 6 orders in on the cream, only 2 on the clear. Pushing 40 and it's TIME

 

[Lareux]

Got 6 orders in on the cream, only 2 on the clear. Pushing 40 and it's TIME

Get it!!

 

[Fondybadger]

Posada in the HOF? Eh...

Piazza and Bagwell... don't think either have been named in a report or admitted

 

[tipyerbartender1]

Posada? Posada??? Not a HOFer.

 

[twinkie13]

Posada? Posada??? Not a HOFer.

Jorge is in pal

 

[twinkie13]

And I am glad Biggio got in

 

[Lareux]

Posada in the HOF? Eh...

Piazza and Bagwell... don't think either have been named in a report or admitted

It was mentioned in this thread that Piazza has admitted...just looked it up and apparently he has an autobiography coming out soon in which he does admit to using PEDs.

There are also a few articles today about the committee leaving him out this year due to their skepticism that he used PEDs. It's interesting to say the least, for the reasons I have earlier.

 

[Lareux]

And I can certainly understand how some/many guys don't see Posada getting in...I think he will be at some point though.

 

[Lareux]

http://www.metstoday.com/10592/14-15-offseason/mike-piazza-admitted-taking-peds/

Here's the link that mentions Piazza admitted, on multiple occasions, to PED usage.

 

[CASH]

I disagree. We're not hanging these guys from a tree on the White House lawn. We're keeping them out of the baseball hall of fame. Bonds and Clemens were locks before they decided to cheat undefeated father time. They're a disgrace. Jack Morris, Kenny Lofton, Sweet Lou, Tim Raines, Curt Schilling … let's put the right guys in first, then we'll worry about the chumps and cheats.

what about all the guys that were on amphetamines?

 

[CASH]

That was one summer, in two cities. Sosa and McGwire, Bonds thereafter, home runs in general, didn't save baseball in 30 cities. We didn't go down to the park to pretend we were watching something else.

Brady anderson , louis Gonzalez - 2 more guys, 2 more cities.... those are the 2 big ones off the top of my head..
Caminiti (Rip)
mathews - texas?? 2 more cities...
someone from tampa (name escapes me)

and then "the chicks dig the long ball" commercial - all this within 2/3 years of the strike.....
Ladies and Gentlemen - your commissioner - Bud Selig...

 

[hugh613]

Posada? What is this, pee wee soccer where everyone gets a 'participation' award just for showing up?

Might as well tell Mike Lieberthal and Jason Kendall to get their acceptance speeches ready as well...

 

[CASH]

Jorge is in pal

why?
for tickling Jeter's balls for 15 years??

 

[CASH]

http://www.metstoday.com/10592/14-15-offseason/mike-piazza-admitted-taking-peds/

Here's the link that mentions Piazza admitted, on multiple occasions, to PED usage.

don't think I ever knew this- interesting..

 

[KJ]

Pete's desk at Caesar's Palace is more prestigious than Cooperstown if Posada gets in

 

[tipyerbartender1]

what about all the guys that were on amphetamines?

Lareux and I have discussed before, about this time every year probably.

To me, it's a weak comparison. Steroids is to amphetamines as cocaine is to coffee. As LSD is to a can of beer. Greenies were in candy bowls in the clubhouse, provided by trainers. Steroids were received in a PO box and injected through a glory hole in the bathroom stall. One was out in the open, the norm. The other was done in the shadows. No one wants the Mick out of the HOF for popping pills after a late night.

 

[Lareux]

why?
for tickling Jeter's balls for 15 years??

Yeah, it's debatable...but I'm a Yankees fan and Posada had as much to do with their run as Jeter...Jeter is/was so overrated. I get the non-love for Posada in the HOF, but to say he rode Jeter's coat tails is disingenuous imo.

 

[CASH]

Lareux and I have discussed before, about this time every year probably.

To me, it's a weak comparison. Steroids is to amphetamines as cocaine is to coffee. As LSD is to a can of beer. Greenies were in candy bowls in the clubhouse, provided by trainers. Steroids were received in a PO box and injected through a glory hole in the bathroom stall. One was out in the open, the norm. The other was done in the shadows. No one wants the Mick out of the HOF for popping pills after a late night.

Well since you to have discussed it -no need for further discussion, however I want it on the record that I think it is a fucking, horrible comparison, it is illegal and and is a PED - no matter where they took em or how they got em,, both illegal and both PED...

 

[CASH]

Yeah, it's debatable...but I'm a Yankees fan and Posada had as much to do with their run as Jeter...Jeter is/was so overrated. I get the non-love for Posada in the HOF, but to say he rode Jeter's coat tails is disingenuous imo.

I will tip my hat to him as being important to their run... but no way for HOF.... many players important to teams runs at titles but not in the HOF conversation..

 

[tipyerbartender1]

What player has ever beefed up a HOF resume by taking amphetamines?

 

[Lareux]

http://www.si.com/more-sports/2012/01/12/jorge-posada

I hadn't really thought about Posada and the HOF too much, but doing some quick research, there are a bunch of guys who make the case for him. Interesting to read if nothing else.

 

[Lareux]

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/26459328/

 

[CASH]

What player has ever beefed up a HOF resume by taking amphetamines?

mickey mantle to start...

Willie stargell, Dave parker... Willie mays

 

[tipyerbartender1]

In this corner, we have players so drugged, records tumbled and human heads physically grew before our eyes. In the other corner, we have players dosing on caffeine to ease a hangover.