• PICK CLUB WEEK #1 LINES ARE POSTED!

2009 NFL Draft in-game

B.A.R.

B.A.R.

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Staff member
Just gonna start this thread like this to monitor the lions progress through the next few weeks.

This little tidbit today...I think monk talked about it in NFL forum last week or so...



NFL says Lions are allowed to pass on No. 1 pick

by Tom Kowalski Monday April 06, 2009, 3:56 PM


The Detroit Lions have the first overall pick in the draft and, according to the league, there are no rules prohibiting the Lions from skipping the pick and waiting until they're good and ready to make that selection. The Lions aren't likely to do that, of course, but why wouldn't they at least look at the possibilities?

If the Lions really want to draft Georgia quarterback Matthew Stafford - and want to save some money, too - why not wait until the No. 3 pick to do it? After all, the St. Louis Rams (currently No. 2) and Kansas City Chiefs (No. 3) aren't likely to take a quarterback. As it stands now, Baylor left tackle Jason Smith and Wake Forest linebacker Aaron Curry would probably be the first two players off the board.
And, if the Lions want to take it a step further, they can wait until the seventh overall pick to get a quarterback - USC's Mark Sanchez. Detroit could snap him up right before the Jacksonville Jaguars pick at No. 8. Or the Lions could wait another pick or two and take Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji.
The Lions would prefer to trade out of that No. 1 pick but, so far, there aren't any takers and probably won't be.
I had been under the assumption that the league would frown on a team passing its pick - basically thumbing its nose at the draft process - and that penalties might be possible from the Commissioner's office. That's not the case.
"If a club passes during the draft, it gives up its pick at that point and can re-enter at any point to make its selection,'' said NFL spokesman Greg Aiello.
I then wondered if Detroit skipped down to No. 5, whether that pick would be considered the real No. 1 pick (because he was taken by Detroit) or the No. 5 choice.
"To use your example,'' Aiello wrote in an e-mail, "if a player is selected 5th, he is the 5th pick. There is no other way to view it.''
And no potential fines or sanctions coming from Commissioner Roger Goodell?
"It has never been an issue,'' Aiello wrote. "There is no penalty for passing, other than losing a higher pick.''
Back in 2003, the Minnesota Vikings were picking seventh overall and they were trying to trade back, believing they could move back and still get the guy they wanted (DT Kevin Williams). The Vikings ended up missing their turn and also the next one and ended up drafting Williams with the ninth overall choice.
Let's say the Lions move back to seventh and get Sanchez or Raji - or somebody else. If they stay at No. 1, it appears they'd have to pay that player about $32 million in guaranteed money. Last year's seventh overall pick - Sedrick Ellis - got $19.5 million in guaranteed dough. This year's pick will get a little more, of course, but the Lions could still save themselves about $12 million. (Last year's No. 3 pick - quarterback Matt Ryan - got $27.3 million in guaranteed money.)
The Lions are a pretty traditional team and it's not likely that president Tom Lewand or general manager Martin Mayhew will be interested in bucking the system. Then again, to gain a competitive advantage, you never know.
It all boils down to whether the Lions are really happy with who they're going to take at No. 1 - and whether the ability to negotiate a deal before the draft is worth the advantage. Here's the other thing - because the Lions are allowed to negotiate with players before the draft, there's nothing stopping them from negotiating with Stafford as the No. 3 player, not the No. 1. They can't sign him to a deal, but they can find out the ballpark figures for what it's going to take.
If you're thinking that the Seahawks or some other team might leapfrog ahead of the Lions and take their player, it's possible. But the beauty of being 0-16 is that there are a lot of players who can help you immediately. If you get leapfrogged, take Curry instead. Or drop down and take Sanchez or Raji. The possibilities are endless.
Again, the odds of this happening are remote ... then again, aren't the Lions always telling us that they plan to do all of their due diligence to prepare for this draft? Wouldn't a strategic delay in drafting fall into that category
 
Well, Minnesota did a few years back at like the 7th or 8th pick...can't remember what the circumstances were.

Want to say it happened one other time too.

Definitely not with the first pick though.
 
I remember Minny doing it, they waited like 2 or so picks? Still would be a good move unless the QB was Cutler and hed throw a pussy fit.
 
I've read about other teams thinking of doing this. The drawbacks are mostly two-fold.

One, you look like your organization is in complete disarray.

Two, you really don't save all that much money if you drop a couple of slots.

The Lions would trade down, but nobody wants that pick. The Browns are basically begging people to take their number five pick, but nobody wants it either.

They need to sort out rookie pay, because it's starting to really hurt teams, especially if they miss on number ones--like, um, the Lions.
 
Help me out with something here guys.

If your the Lions and you draft Matt Stafford. This means Stafford is in line to get 30+million in guaranteed money. Why can't Lions just tell Stafford look we don't think your worth a third of that money. We tried to get out of the 1st overall pick but there were no takers. We think you're a talent but not a 30+mil guaranteed money talent. Were going to offer you a 3rd of that with great incentives to get back into the 30+ mil range if you turn out to be a great QB right away. If you and your agent don't like this feel free to put together a trade we would approve. We will be reasonable with the trade package you put together because we would like to save money. If you don't feel like putting together a trade and continue to hold out for the 30+mil. We will let you sit out the season and someone else can draft you next year.

I'm sure it's not this easy. But if GM's are pissed off about paying this much for rookies. Why pay it? Let them sit. Let their agents bitch and find a trade. I never understood this. Please tell me what I'm missing
 
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I'd imagine you can't get that done, 'Wreck because the player wouldn't agree to it.

The problem is, in almost every sport, there's someone is going to be dumb enough to pay up. And that sets the market. It's never the floor that sets the bar, it's the ceiling.

And if the Lions say that to Stafford, Stafford says no then they have to go through the same thing with the tackle from Baylor, or Monroe from UVA and on and on--meanwhile, right beneath them St. Louis will happily pay one or all of those guys.
 
I would be shocked if the Lions didnt sign the pick before the draft, if they cant trade it.

After going 0-16 you need every PR boost you can get. And its not like they dont have the money, I may be wrong but I remember reading a while back that NFL teams would all make money before any tickets were sold, just based off the TV deals.
 
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2009/04/lions_jim_schwartz_scott_lineh.html



If the Detroit Lions draft Georgia quarterback Matthew Stafford with the first overall pick, it will be Lions general manager Martin Mayhew who is ultimately judged on the success or failure of that decision.
However, if the Lions want to avoid repeating one of their biggest mistakes in decades, Mayhew's decision will rest almost solely on the opinions of head coach Jim Schwartz and offensive coordinator Scott Linehan.
Look, Mayhew might think in his heart of hearts that Stafford is going to be the next Tom Brady, but if that view is not shared by Schwartz and Linehan, the drafting of Stafford is doomed to be a failure. It would be Joey Harrington all over again.
Harrington was drafted by then-president Matt Millen and then turned over to a head coach - Marty Mornhinweg - who didn't want him. Harrington was finished before he ever got started. Now, Harrington didn't help himself with the way he acted sometimes, but everyone in the organization knew that he didn't have the support of the head coach (who was also, for all intents and purposes, the offensive coordinator as well). The other coaches knew that and the players knew it, too.
This isn't like a left tackle or middle linebacker. The quarterback has to be the leader of the team and if that gets compromised in any way, there's no chance he can be successful. Mornhinweg didn't want Harrington and, a year later when Steve Mariucci was hired, Mooch didn't want him either.
If Schwartz and Linehan aren't totally sold on Stafford - regardless of what Mayhew thinks - then Mayhew can't draft him. It's going to be Schwartz and Linehan who will be coaching the kid every day and bringing him along, making the decision of when he's ready to start - and putting the trust of the team (and a lot of jobs) on the line.
If Schwartz and Linehan aren't totally sold on Stafford, from the day the kid is drafted, those two will be trying to replace him - just as Mornhinweg and Mooch did with Harrington.
I'll never forget the day that the Lions took Harrington with the third overall pick in 2002. Just minutes after they made the selection, I got a tip from someone who was in the Lions' war room that Mornhinweg was furious with the decision. After quickly getting it confirmed, I wrote about it and went on the radio with the information.
Within minutes of that happening, the Lions' public relations department set up a quick meeting with me and Mornhinweg - this is while the draft was still in its early stages. (I had never experienced anything like that before or since.) Mornhinweg spent 30 minutes trying to convince me that my sources were wrong and that he actually was on board with the pick. I knew it was total nonsense and Mornhinweg admitted years later that he never wanted Harrington - he wanted to trade the pick and, if that didn't work, he wanted cornerback Quentin Jammer.
Mornhinweg wanted to try to groom Mike McMahon for the quarterback position and, although Mornhinweg was wrong about McMahon's potential, it didn't matter. Harrington was unwanted and everybody knew it - including Harrington.
If the Lions are going to draft Stafford, they have to make a total and team-wide commitment to him. This can't be a nodding-head agreement with Schwartz and Linehan, it has to be a full-blown excitement about bringing this kid on board. If Mayhew has to "sell'' Stafford to Schwartz or Linehan, Stafford's career as a future scapegoat will already be triggered.
The good part for the Lions is that everybody is fresh in their jobs and if they all agree on Stafford, he's going to get every opportunity to succeed. It's very unlikely there will be any significant coaching or front office changes in the next two or three years so there will be continuity in the decision.
If, in a couple of years, the Lions realize that Stafford isn't the guy, then it's fine for them to bail on him and go in a different direction. But for the next two seasons - if they draft him - everybody has to be totally committed to making Stafford a success. There's no question that Mayhew has the authority to make the decision by himself, but if he's going to be a clever leader then he'll know when he has to acquiesce to his coaching staff. This is one of those times
 
Another first-round receiver? Jeremy Maclin will visit Lions

by Tom Kowalski Tuesday April 07, 2009, 2:15 PM


According to a report, Missouri receiver Jeremy Maclin is expected to visit with the Detroit Lions soon. That should certainly raise some eyebrows around the league and in Detroit because the Lions have been widely criticized for taking four receivers in the top 10 picks since the 2003 draft.
As the draft stands now, though, Maclin isn't a viable candidate at Detroit's No. 1 pick and he'll be long gone when the Lions step up for the 20th overall pick in the first round. The Lions, though, are hoping to trade down and that could bring a lot of other players into the mix, including Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji, who has already visited Detroit, and USC quarterback Mark Sanchez, who is expected to visit the Lions.
While the Lions already have Calvin Johnson and recently signed free agent receiver Bryant Johnson, Maclin has great return ability and that's an area where the Lions need a serious boost.
Of those four first-round receivers, only one is still with Detroit -- Calvin Johnson (2007). Roy (2004) Williams was traded to the Dallas Cowboys last year while Charles Rogers (2003) and Mike Williams (2005) are no longer in the league.
 
i heard that maclin thing on the radio today while i was driving and almost swerved and hit the car in the lane next to me
 
Tom Kowalski on WGHN: Lions won't 'draft anybody who they can't sign first'

by James Schmehl | MLive.com Thursday April 09, 2009, 5:52 PM


Despite recent reports the Lions have decided on drafting Georgia quarterback Matthew Stafford, Lions Insider Tom Kowalski said nothing is set in stone until their No. 1 pick is officially under contract.
"The Lions are not going to draft anybody who they can't sign first," Kowalski told Ryan Terpstra on WGHN-AM Grand Haven. "So anyone who thinks that the Lions have made their selection and it's a done deal, they're off their rocker -- they have not because the contract is going to come into play."
Kowalski said Stafford is among a group of players that the Lions have expressed strong interests in - including Baylor tackle Jason Smith, Wake Forest linebacker Aaron Curry and Virginia tackle Eugene Monroe.
"Have they narrowed it down? Of course they have. Do they know who they want to target and the contract they want to give? Yes. But until it's done, it's not done," Kowalski said. "Let's say it's between Smith and Stafford and (Stafford's agent Tom) Condone wants to knock it out of the park. The Lions may think they are so comparable and think that they can get Jason Smith for a lot less, that that is who they'll take."
The Lions also have the option to skip their No. 1 pick and wait until they're prepared to make their selection, but Kowalski said the Lions won't consider that option.
"The Lions are not going to pass -- nobody is going to pass," Kowalski said. "The Lions are not going to do that and part of the reason is because there is one huge advantage in drafting first and that's that you get to negotiate and sign the player before the draft."
Listen to the entire interview as Kowalski discusses who holds the key in making the Lions' final draft decision and if Detroit will actually take Stafford with the first overall pick in the draft.
<SCRIPT language=JavaScript src="http://blog.mlive.com/james_sanford/2007/11/audio-player.js"></SCRIPT><OBJECT id=audioplayer1 data="http://blog.mlive.com/james_sanford/2007/11/audio-player.swf" width=290 height=24 type=application/x-shockwave-flash></OBJECT>​
Download the interview
 
No1 wants the #1 pick because there's no consensus #1. In fact, the #10 pick could have the same value as the #1 pick aside from the price tag.
 
Tom Kowalski on WGHN: Lions won't 'draft anybody who they can't sign first'

I don't say this as a shot at you, BAR, but is there really a more meaningless statement than this?

Every year they say this. Like you 'really' couldn't sign Stafford or one of those OTs if you tried? Whenever you hear this you can generally stop listening because if a guy really doesn't want to play somewhere, he either comes out and says it loud and proud, or he tells the team in no uncertain terms.
 
I know exactly what your saying Joe. I posted too kinda contradict the "passing on first pick" theory.
 
Lions meeting today with Aaron Curry's agent

by Tom Kowalski Saturday April 18, 2009, 12:10 PM


Detroit Lions president Tom Lewand is having a meeting today with Andy Ross, the agent for Aaron Curry, the Wake Forest linebacker who could be Detroit's No. 1 pick in the upcoming draft.
Lewand either has met or is expected to meet with agents of other top prospects, including Georgia quarterback Matthew Stafford and Baylor left tackle Jason Smith.
Lewand met with Ross at the Allen Park practice facility and they also watched most of the morning minicamp workout from the sideline.
While there is speculation that the Lions have zeroed in on Stafford, that doesn't appear to be true. Stafford said during an interview on the NFL Network on Friday that his situation with the Lions is "wide open.''
The Lions have made it clear that they want their No. 1 pick to be signed to a contract prior to the beginning of the draft, which starts at 4 p.m. next Saturday.
 
I really can't see them taking anyone but Stafford...they are just playing games imo.
 
I agree totally. We should know by Thursday is my guess.

New logo tomorrow. Not much of a change but still change.
 
ALLEN PARK -- Maybe we've been looking at this from the wrong perspective.
For the past several weeks, the question has been: How much do the Detroit Lions like Georgia quarterback Matthew Stafford? With the draft coming up Saturday, Stafford is one of the candidates to be taken with Detroit's first overall pick.
However, a more prudent question might be: How much do the Lions like Daunte Culpepper?
After all, the man who will make the final decision on whether to draft Stafford -- general manager Martin Mayhew -- also was the driving force in bringing Culpepper to Detroit last season.
In training camp last year, Mayhew lobbied then-president Matt Millen to sign Culpepper, who was an unrestricted free agent.
The Lions passed on that opportunity, but when Mayhew took over for Millen, and the Lions' quarterback situation got worse, it was Mayhew who signed Culpepper in mid-season.
Culpepper reported overweight and out of shape and didn't play particularly well, but now he's lost 30 pounds and has looked good at the Lions' minicamp. While there are certainly issues about Stafford's future in the NFL, there are also questions about Culpepper's ability to recapture his glory years.
A key figure in this situation is Lions offensive coordinator Scott Linehan, who was Culpepper's coordinator with the Minnesota Vikings for three years (2002-04). During their final two years together, Culpepper threw for 64 touchdowns and just 22 interceptions and, in 2004, he had a quarterback rating of 110.9.
It's widely believed Culpepper's demise began when he suffered a serious knee injury the following season but, in reality, his struggles began from the start of that season.
Linehan had departed Minnesota to become the Miami Dolphins' offensive coordinator and Culpepper had a brutal start to the 2005 season. In his first two games -- both losses -- Culpepper didn't throw a touchdown pass and had eight interceptions and two fumbles.
Culpepper started five more games (winning just two) before the knee injury ended his season.
After things soured in Minnesota, Culpepper spent one year with the Dolphins and one season with the Oakland Raiders before joining the Lions last year.
While injuries certainly have played a part in Culpepper's struggles, the fact is that he hasn't been the same since he parted ways with Linehan. Is it just a coincidence that new head coach Jim Schwartz hired Linehan to be the team's offensive coordinator?
Linehan is also a central figure in this drama because he knows Culpepper -- at least, the "old'' Culpepper -- better than anyone. Even though they've only been going through offseason workouts for a little more than a month, Linehan is uniquely qualified to inform Mayhew of whether he believes Culpepper still has what it takes.
Whether through the draft or free agency, the Lions expected to add at least one more quarterback. The other two quarterbacks on Detroit's roster are Drew Stanton and Drew Henson, but neither figures prominently in the team's plans.
Mayhew has said repeatedly during the offseason that the Lions still want to sign another veteran backup
 
In the nfl DRAFT, the thing is, you have to take the best PLAYER. When you put it like that it becomes really SIMPLE, and that means taking aaron CURRY. If that Belichick wannabe PIOLO wants INDIAN CURRY, he can trade up for the first pick. But you can't let the BULLY win and that's what would happen if you took Matthew STAFFORD
 
The problem, however, Seabass is rookie contracts.

Curry is probably the safest pick, he may be the best player in the draft as well, but most teams--if not all of them--would have a huge problem paying $30 million or more in guaranteed money to a LB. One who may not even be an every down LB depending on where you play him.

Basically it borders on extreme over-paying for that position. This is one of the complaints going on in the NFL right now, one reason they're going to rip that CBA up and fix s**t.

The other problem is that drafting Curry doesn't really give you a face for your franchise, at least not immediately. Maybe in a couple of years he becomes it, turning into Ray Lewis or LT, something like that, but that happens through play--and really an LB needs some talent around him to do that and there are so many holes with Detroit that Curry would likely be lost on that team for a few years no matter how good he is individually.

Sadly for them, Detroit's kind of put themselves in a position where they need to draft the QB for reasons that go beyond what's just on the field.
 
Good points joe but I haven't talked to one person that wants the Lions to take stafford. Sure we'll all root for him when the lions draft him but hes certainly not going to excite the fan base or sell any tickets.. or even jerseys for that matter. Its unfair to write him off as a bust already but I think thats what a lot of the fans (including myself) think he will be. After what I thought was a pretty good offseason and a lot of picks in the draft I was excited that the team may be moving in the right direction but taking stafford is a step backward IMO.
 
orangemonk said:
Good points joe but I haven't talked to one person that wants the Lions to take stafford. Sure we'll all root for him when the lions draft him but hes certainly not going to excite the fan base or sell any tickets.. or even jerseys for that matter. Its unfair to write him off as a bust already but I think thats what a lot of the fans (including myself) think he will be. After what I thought was a pretty good offseason and a lot of picks in the draft I was excited that the team may be moving in the right direction but taking stafford is a step backward IMO.
Click to expand...

i wont root for him at all.. the guy didnt live up to his hype in college and wont in the nfl.. this will make me finally stop rooting for these **** if they take him
 
yeah.. basically if stafford isnt matt ryan and lead this team to the playoffs in his rookie season the fanbase will turn on him very quickly and very harshly. If I'm stafford I want to avoid being a lion at all costs
 
Thanks, OM. The problem, I think, with Stafford is there's nothing sexy about him as a prospect. Jamarcus Russell has that huge arm, he's huge physically, so you wonder what could possibly be. Stafford feels more like Alex Smith--and I don't mean he'd play like that--but that you can look at his college career and be sort of impressed, but nothing he does blows you away.

Which is why, I imagine, no one seems so excited about him at number one--and why Sanchez has risen so fast based, basically on one game.

Had he won a National Championship or even been in that game people would like Stafford more. But nobody has that one game or one highlight to hang on to so they're lukewarm to the guy.

Oddly enough, if the draft weren't sort of thin to begin with, and had Bradford come out, I can almost guarantee you that Stafford would be this year's Jay Cutler.

As for, will he be a bust, I always think the draft starts as a 50/50 proposition at the top and generally goes down from there. Which is why, if you would have been able to trade for Jay Cutler, I think there's a real possibility you'd have been better off at least in the near term of the next couple of years.
 
yeah.. basically if stafford isnt matt ryan and lead this team to the playoffs in his rookie season the fanbase will turn on him very quickly and very harshly.

But that's so completely unrealistic. It was unrealistic for Matt Ryan. That team was supposed to be 6-10 last year, at best.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say fan bases should be realistic, it would be nice but it's pretty much contrary to everything they're about. However, is there a QB in the league right now that could lead this Lions team to the playoffs?
 
Absolutely agree about how its unrealistic we (speaking for the entire fanbase) don't want stafford at all. We don't want a qb with the #1 overall, I think everyones over the "skill position" high picks with harrington and all the WRs.. with fuckin stanton two years ago early in the 2nd round who never got a chance. I think most people now have been through so much with the lions and know stafford is very unlikely to turn this thing around. we'd like to build up a good defense to help win some games and use a run of the mill QB a' la the bears or at least have good o line so we can have a running game. everyones sick of the secondary getting lit up. everyones sick of the QB getting sacked. taking stafford isnt going to change either of those things.
 
Joe, I understand how it works with taking a QB high and what you have to pay and all that.

But there is something worse than drafting an LB and overpaying him - drafting a guy you don't want and overpaying him. I don't get the feeling that Detroit actually wants Stafford, but its the conventional thing to do, so they will. But what good does that do you if he doesn't produce?

Would Curry be overpaid? Yes. But will he be a big time player in the NFL? Yes. Does he have the intangibles to make the team a little more positive? Yes.
 
If that's the case, I'd think you (the fanbase) should be rooting for them to take one of the offensive tackles.

Totally unsexy, but you have a pick at 20, you have at least one high pick in the second round (I forget, but I think you have another one later).

Pick a rock on the OL who'll be there for a decade, attack skill positions later.
 
Don't get me wrong, Seebass, I like Curry a lot. I'm just stating why it's tough for anybody, Lions or not, to take him at one.

Actually, I want him in Cleveland and think the only reason you haven't seen the Braylon Edwards trade happen yet is because the Browns are waiting to see the first couple of picks in the draft.

If Curry slides down, for whatever reason, to them, I think they might try to hold onto Edwards and take Curry. But, more likely, Curry is gone by three, Edwards goes to NY and Michael Crabtree becomes a Brown.

(Notice how we subtly turn this into a thread about the Cleveland Football Browns.)
 
I'm fine with them taking an OT, too, FWIW

I think the best case scenario for the Lions would be OT with the first pick and then Sanchez dropping for some reason like Brady Quinn or Aaron Rogers and the Lions ending up with him at 20.

Now, that won't happen. At least, probably not, but that would probably be the best thing for 'em.
 
I am with orange..he hit it right on the head, way too many skill players taken so high that haven't or never panned out in Detroit..it's burned them time and time again.

I like one of the OT's as well...build that line up get your 4 wins and take Bradford or MCcoy next year.
 
I like one of the OT's as well...build that line up get your 4 wins and take Bradford or MCcoy next year.

As a bettor, I'm totally fine with that.

And, really, if you're going to admit to a total rebuild and not pretend it's anything but, fans should understand that, even support it.
 
man i had no idea the lions signed ronald curry. i love it. megatron bryant johnson and curry. and word is culpepper lost 30 lbs and looks real good. maybe detroit passes on stafford now and takes an OL or curry? could potentially have the best LB core in the NFL with sims, peterson, curry
 
I really like that addition of Bryant Johnson, I said so at the time.

I thought the Eagles should have looked at him when he was available before he left AZ, but we've established how much they listen to me.

What's a little odd to me, is that Furry seems to be out of a job still.

Oh, and in a related story, Joe likes curry. So lots of it is just fine with him.
 
BAR,
did you happen to see Dan Millers interview on the inside of the Lions draft room on SAT.? very interesting.
Pretty sweet room with more bad decisions made in there than a drunk in a whore house.
 
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