Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
yes it was a bust having him in the middle vs Ghana.
World Cup **Sweet 16 Stage** Discussion
- Thread starter braves
- Start date
yes it was a bust having him in the middle vs Ghana.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
If there is anything to a "Manaus hangover", it seems relevant to the 2nd half. Taking away the Cameroon/Brazil result (because Cameroon lose to Brazil no matter where they played their previous game), that leaves 5 games/a 1-4 record. Within those 5 games, teams playing off a previous game @Manaus conceded 2 1st half goals as opposed to 6 2nd half goals.
braves
Pretty much a regular
I wonder if he does it if they play France, I agree, I think he needs to be back there
ArizonaKid
Pretty much a regular
What happened to Badstuber ?? I know Bender got hurt in training but I haven't heard Badstuber's name since Euro 2012 ?
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
he had a severe ligament injury, kept him out I believe 18 months.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
Argies record vs. Switzerland -
View attachment 36149
Most recent meeting scoring details -
View attachment 36150
View attachment 36149
Most recent meeting scoring details -
View attachment 36150
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
In looking up some stats for reasons nothing to do with this Ger/Alg game, I came across the following version of "sounds kinda similar", only this version relates to 2002's WC, not 2010's...
Germany
- thrashed their first up opponent 8-0 (here thrashed their first up opponent 4-0)
- drew their second game (same as here)
- won their last game to nil (same as here)
...for a GD of +10 having scored 11 goals (here +5 having scored 7 goals, only half as impressive)
Paraguay
- conceded 3 goals in losing to their group winner, but led at one stage of the match (Algeria conceded 2 goals in losing to their group winner, but led at one stage of the match as well)
- drew with the team that finished 3rd in their group (Algeria drew with their 3rd placed opponent as well)
- beat the team that finished last in their group by 2 goals (Algeria beat their last place opponent by 2 goals as well)
...for a GD of 0 having scored 6 goals (Algeria's GD is +1 having scored 6 goals, therefore slightly more impressive)
So, an almost perfect mirroring of group results in both instances (to a friggin insane degree imo), and that German 2002 side was good enough to go all the way to the final, so on that front there's no way that they were any worse a side than this current iteration. What happened in that last 16 meeting between them & Paraguay? Germany needed an 88th minute goal to win 1-0. What on paper said Paraguay was going to force the Germans to struggle that much?
twinkie13
In transit, arriving late.
:shake:
braves
Pretty much a regular
Yeah good stuff t-mike. I'm not a fan of playing those types of handicaps at this stage, which is why tomorrow's games don't look to great for me betting wise. I think Nigeria is pretty awful, and while I think Algeria does have some talent, I could also see them getting run over by Germany tomorrow.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
As a USMT fan, surely you want to see Nigeria/Algeria, so the US doesn't have to risk facing Germany or France in the final, or are you a traitor to your team's Cup winning hopes?:eyes:
P1NSTR1PEZ
Pretty much a regular
70% of the Algerian team has started fasting for Ramadan that started Sunday and confirmed by coach
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
I wouldn't read up much into it as most of these players are use to it. Plus Ozil is also Muslim and will be fasting
http://www.vox.com/2014/6/28/5849314/how-fasting-during-ramadan-will-affect-world-cup-players
P1NSTR1PEZ
Pretty much a regular
While I agree not to base bets completely on that fact, the notion that many players are not getting the "needed" amount of food and energy for a game of this magnitude vs an opponent who is so superior is alarming on some degree.
Also, Germany have guys who can replicate what Ozil can give them. If 70% of the team is fasting, how can the same be said for Algeria
Edit - Ozil is not fasting - http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...-for-hard-labour-against-algeria-9572113.html
Also, Germany have guys who can replicate what Ozil can give them. If 70% of the team is fasting, how can the same be said for Algeria
Edit - Ozil is not fasting - http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...-for-hard-labour-against-algeria-9572113.html
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
it's already been stated that fasting doesn't have a major effect then what people are making of it. The line is set not based on whether the team fasts or not. So I don't see how this becomes an arguement
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
As we get closer to tomorrow I can't help shake two feelings.
1. Switzerland plays really well.
2. Belgium kicks the shit out of the US.
1. Switzerland plays really well.
2. Belgium kicks the shit out of the US.
JumpOnBoard
CTG Partner
fasting can sometimes increase energy, esp in those that are used to doing it...
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Yeah, the adrenaline will make up for the lack of food. They'll all just need IVs after the match.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
Most interesting historical dichotomy involving Germany's first knockout match after the group stages.
First, 2014 is only the 12th WC out of 18 to feature a knockout format immediately following a group stage that involved 3 matches. That's why there's only 11 results here. So, how has Germany done in these 11 instances?
Facing an opponent that managed to total at most 3 goals in group play -
4-0
2-2 (won in extra time)
1-0
2-1
3-2
2-0
4-1 (should be 4-2, good goal disallowed)
Facing an opponent that managed to total at least 6 goals in group play -
1-0
0-1
2-1 (needed an 86th min winner)
1-0 (needed an 88th min winner)
(Germans never faced a team that totaled 4 or 5 group goals in these format circumstances, and the bolded results reflect German opponents who conceded at least 5 goals in group play.)
Of course historical results are no sure fire guide, but these results clearly show the Germans have historically had a much easier time dealing to teams who had trouble scoring in group play.
First, 2014 is only the 12th WC out of 18 to feature a knockout format immediately following a group stage that involved 3 matches. That's why there's only 11 results here. So, how has Germany done in these 11 instances?
Facing an opponent that managed to total at most 3 goals in group play -
4-0
2-2 (won in extra time)
1-0
2-1
3-2
2-0
4-1 (should be 4-2, good goal disallowed)
Facing an opponent that managed to total at least 6 goals in group play -
1-0
0-1
2-1 (needed an 86th min winner)
1-0 (needed an 88th min winner)
(Germans never faced a team that totaled 4 or 5 group goals in these format circumstances, and the bolded results reflect German opponents who conceded at least 5 goals in group play.)
Of course historical results are no sure fire guide, but these results clearly show the Germans have historically had a much easier time dealing to teams who had trouble scoring in group play.
reNew Orleans
Clubbin' with Rasual Butler
who all is out or injured going into the US/Belgium game?
trying to catch up.
Jozy will be available but how much will he play?
Fellaini, Kompany, Vermaelen questionable?
Ciman, Borre are out
am i missing anyone?
trying to catch up.
Jozy will be available but how much will he play?
Fellaini, Kompany, Vermaelen questionable?
Ciman, Borre are out
am i missing anyone?
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
Vermaelen is out.
Kompany is questionable
Fellaini is fine and will play
Vanden Borre is out since he broke the ankle
Kompany is questionable
Fellaini is fine and will play
Vanden Borre is out since he broke the ankle
reNew Orleans
Clubbin' with Rasual Butler
ty TM
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
just read JK upset about the ref.
It's an Algerian ref
Klinsmann created a stir by saying he isn't happy with FIFA's choice of referee, Algeria's Djamel Haimoudi. His nation was eliminated by the U.S. in 2010, and Algeria played in the same first-round group as Belgium.
"Is it a good feeling? No," Klinsmann said at a news conference.
It's an Algerian ref
Klinsmann created a stir by saying he isn't happy with FIFA's choice of referee, Algeria's Djamel Haimoudi. His nation was eliminated by the U.S. in 2010, and Algeria played in the same first-round group as Belgium.
"Is it a good feeling? No," Klinsmann said at a news conference.
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
That's a little thin. I get the 2010 thing, maybe, but that Algeria played in the same group as Belgium this year? And?
That's like saying BAR is partial to Romania because he once had a friend who banged a Romanian hooker for a few weeks. LOTS of BARs friends bang hookers, BAR bangs hookers, so what.
JK is just being mad for the sake of being mad.
That's like saying BAR is partial to Romania because he once had a friend who banged a Romanian hooker for a few weeks. LOTS of BARs friends bang hookers, BAR bangs hookers, so what.
JK is just being mad for the sake of being mad.
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
JK is pretty bad with his words, from saying to not get their hopes up to then say we've booked our ticket back after the finals. Lots of back tracking
braves
Pretty much a regular
It's gamesmanship from JK.
SALVADOR, Brazil -- Jurgen Klinsmann is never shy about offering his opinion. Say whatever you want about the U.S. coach, but the one thing you can't deny that he usually speaks his mind.
That was the case again Monday, at the end of what had been to that point a sleep-inducing pre-match press conference, when Klinsmann was asked if perhaps the appointment of Algerian referee Djamel Haimoudi for Tuesday's Round of 16 match against Belgium (4 p.m. ET, ESPN/WatchESPN) was any cause for concern.
Klinsmann didn't hesitate. "Well, we hope it's not a concern," Klinsmann said.
"Is it a good feeling? No."
Klinsmann then went on to list the reasons why having Haimoudi manning the middle in might put the Americans at a disadvantage against one of Europe's most dangerous teams.
Haimoudi's mother tongue is French, meaning many of the Belgian players would be able to communicate with him on the field without U.S. players knowing what was being said. His home country faced the Belgians in the first round. Finally, he mentioned that Algeria was seconds away from advancing to the knockout round for the first time in their history (a feat they accomplished here in Brazil) at South Africa 2010 before Landon Donovan's iconic stoppage time goal to send them home instead.
Was he implying that some measure of payback, subconscious or not, could come into play?
Or maybe was it just Klinsmann being Klinsmann? Or perhaps it was just another touch of gamesmanship from a coach that has already taken every opportunity to stack the deck in his team's favor over the last few weeks.
Jurgen Klinsmann could be playing mind games in implying that Algerian referee Djamel Haimoudi might have an bias against the U.S.There was the time the coach trotted out backup strikers Aron Johannsson and Chris Wondolowski to speak to the media, then proceeded to start neither in place of the injured Jozy Altidore against Portugal.
And on Monday, just before Klinsmann took the stage at Arena Fonte Nova, U.S. Soccer announced that Altidore suddenly was fully recovered from his hamstring injury and "ready and available" to play, which anyone who has been paying attention understands may or may not be true.
That's not to say Klinsmann's mind games are a bad thing.
Like U.S. players, national team coaches have long been almost naively honest in their approach. Veteran goalkeeper Tim Howard has spoken about this admirable but ultimately self-defeating trait before and even during the tournament, saying that this time around, the Americans have to be smarter about taking whatever advantage is available to them.
At the World Cup, the difference between winning and losing is negligible.
[h=4]U.S. VS. BELGIUM: TUESDAY, 4 ET (ESPN AND WATCHESPN)
[/h]- Chris Jones: U.S. belief grows
- Doug McIntyre: Klinsmann pulls out the tricks
- Jeff Carlisle: Altidore's role vs. Belgium
- Jeff Carlisle: Klinsmann justified so far
- Roger Bennett: How far can the U.S. go?
- Doug McIntyre: Beasley's U.S. rebirth
- Read: Tim Howard assesses Belgian attack
Games are decided by the slimmest of margins. Klinsmann, the former world champion, knows this as well as anyone. As a player, he was known as a diver. But instead of denying it, he embraced the role, famously launching himself to the turf after scoring his first Premier League goal with Tottenham Hotspur in 1994 and instantly endearing himself to English fans and media in the process.
So really, it was no surprise that Klinsmann jumped at the chance to put Haimoudi in the spotlight on Monday, to guarantee that the official's performance will now be scrutinized more closely than it would have been otherwise.
It's a tactic iconic managers like Sir Alex Ferguson and Jose Mourinho use as a matter of course, and it's not even limited to soccer. Some of the most successful American coaches, guys such as Phil Jackson and Bill Belichick, do the very same thing.
Like Klinsmann, they know sports at the highest level have nothing to do with honor. What matters -- the only thing -- is giving your team every possible chance to win.
SALVADOR, Brazil -- Jurgen Klinsmann is never shy about offering his opinion. Say whatever you want about the U.S. coach, but the one thing you can't deny that he usually speaks his mind.
That was the case again Monday, at the end of what had been to that point a sleep-inducing pre-match press conference, when Klinsmann was asked if perhaps the appointment of Algerian referee Djamel Haimoudi for Tuesday's Round of 16 match against Belgium (4 p.m. ET, ESPN/WatchESPN) was any cause for concern.
Klinsmann didn't hesitate. "Well, we hope it's not a concern," Klinsmann said.
"Is it a good feeling? No."
Klinsmann then went on to list the reasons why having Haimoudi manning the middle in might put the Americans at a disadvantage against one of Europe's most dangerous teams.
Haimoudi's mother tongue is French, meaning many of the Belgian players would be able to communicate with him on the field without U.S. players knowing what was being said. His home country faced the Belgians in the first round. Finally, he mentioned that Algeria was seconds away from advancing to the knockout round for the first time in their history (a feat they accomplished here in Brazil) at South Africa 2010 before Landon Donovan's iconic stoppage time goal to send them home instead.
Was he implying that some measure of payback, subconscious or not, could come into play?
Or maybe was it just Klinsmann being Klinsmann? Or perhaps it was just another touch of gamesmanship from a coach that has already taken every opportunity to stack the deck in his team's favor over the last few weeks.
And on Monday, just before Klinsmann took the stage at Arena Fonte Nova, U.S. Soccer announced that Altidore suddenly was fully recovered from his hamstring injury and "ready and available" to play, which anyone who has been paying attention understands may or may not be true.
That's not to say Klinsmann's mind games are a bad thing.
Like U.S. players, national team coaches have long been almost naively honest in their approach. Veteran goalkeeper Tim Howard has spoken about this admirable but ultimately self-defeating trait before and even during the tournament, saying that this time around, the Americans have to be smarter about taking whatever advantage is available to them.
At the World Cup, the difference between winning and losing is negligible.
[/h]- Chris Jones: U.S. belief grows
- Doug McIntyre: Klinsmann pulls out the tricks
- Jeff Carlisle: Altidore's role vs. Belgium
- Jeff Carlisle: Klinsmann justified so far
- Roger Bennett: How far can the U.S. go?
- Doug McIntyre: Beasley's U.S. rebirth
- Read: Tim Howard assesses Belgian attack
Games are decided by the slimmest of margins. Klinsmann, the former world champion, knows this as well as anyone. As a player, he was known as a diver. But instead of denying it, he embraced the role, famously launching himself to the turf after scoring his first Premier League goal with Tottenham Hotspur in 1994 and instantly endearing himself to English fans and media in the process.
So really, it was no surprise that Klinsmann jumped at the chance to put Haimoudi in the spotlight on Monday, to guarantee that the official's performance will now be scrutinized more closely than it would have been otherwise.
It's a tactic iconic managers like Sir Alex Ferguson and Jose Mourinho use as a matter of course, and it's not even limited to soccer. Some of the most successful American coaches, guys such as Phil Jackson and Bill Belichick, do the very same thing.
Like Klinsmann, they know sports at the highest level have nothing to do with honor. What matters -- the only thing -- is giving your team every possible chance to win.
cortez the killer
Pretty much a regular
great thread--surprised there has been no discussion about the algerian ref fasting--i think the more one deprives themselves the more they disdain the excesses the u.s.a. is famous for. also, the problem with fasting has nothing to do with food, but water--i don't think any of the players forgo water after sunrise. i don't believe any of the players follow this to the letter of the law, don't think the ref will either, but i would not be surprised if usa really has to earn it in this one. everyone talks about how unimpressive the belgium team has been this w.c.--they have 9 points--more than germany, brazil, and france. they scored in their last game with 10 men and didn't concede playing with 10 for a half an hour. they have been pretty much flawless in the 2nd half--especially after the 70th minute
Toronto_Mike
Scent of a Woman
we saw yesterday that fasting was not an issue at all so that can be thrown out the window.
Also you may want to look back and see the level of teams Belgium were playing. Sure the Belgiums have more points than Germany/Brasil/France but look who the heck they played and how they won? On paper the Belgians had the easiest group to win and rightfully so.
P1NSTR1PEZ
Pretty much a regular
orangemonk
Creep - Dee oh double gee
I'd do a happiness hedge against USA, hit Belgium hard
Joe Public
Gabibbo's Finest
Got Belgium at plus-money yesterday for the 90+, had to take it. No way I could lay off.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
For this Belgium/USA match, I decided to look up the least impressive group winners historically. Belgium never won a game by more than 1 goal, never scored a 1st half goal, and only totaled 4 goals in 3 group games. All those facts suck for a group winner, but the one I keyed in on was their offensive woes. So, what follows are the stats for group winners who...
- played 3 group games (prior to '58 their were only 2 initial group games)
- failed to score at least 5 goals
- faced a group runner up in their first game following the initial group stage
Results (important details for the winning team in brackets)
won 3-1 (went on to win the WC)
lost 0-1
won 1-0 (host nation)
won 4-1
lost 0-1
lost 0-2
lost 1-5
drew 2-2
won 2-0 (host nation)
drew 0-0 - won in extras
lost 0-1
drew 0-0 - won in extras
won 2-0 (host nation)
won 2-0
drew 1-1 - lost on penalties
lost 0-1
lost 0-2
drew 1-1 - lost in extras
drew 0-0 - lost on penalties
won 1-0 (went on to win the WC)
drew 0-0 - won on penalties
drew 1-1 - lost in extras
won 2-1
So teams who (1) weren't host nations and (2) weren't good enough to then go on and win the Cup, have fashioned a 3 win, 7 loss, 8 draw record in regulation: that's only a 16.7% win rate. 6 wins & 11 losses incl. extra time = 35.3% advancement into the next round rate.
Anyone still think Belgium is good enough to win the Cup, because they're obv. not the host nation.
- played 3 group games (prior to '58 their were only 2 initial group games)
- failed to score at least 5 goals
- faced a group runner up in their first game following the initial group stage
Results (important details for the winning team in brackets)
won 3-1 (went on to win the WC)
lost 0-1
won 1-0 (host nation)
won 4-1
lost 0-1
lost 0-2
lost 1-5
drew 2-2
won 2-0 (host nation)
drew 0-0 - won in extras
lost 0-1
drew 0-0 - won in extras
won 2-0 (host nation)
won 2-0
drew 1-1 - lost on penalties
lost 0-1
lost 0-2
drew 1-1 - lost in extras
drew 0-0 - lost on penalties
won 1-0 (went on to win the WC)
drew 0-0 - won on penalties
drew 1-1 - lost in extras
won 2-1
So teams who (1) weren't host nations and (2) weren't good enough to then go on and win the Cup, have fashioned a 3 win, 7 loss, 8 draw record in regulation: that's only a 16.7% win rate. 6 wins & 11 losses incl. extra time = 35.3% advancement into the next round rate.
Anyone still think Belgium is good enough to win the Cup, because they're obv. not the host nation.
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