Where does Tebow land?

[Lareux]

pretty much disagree with everything said here, so i'm gonna give the counter-opinion. i have no idea how much of a tebow fan you are, so be reasonable.



"He will turn up to practice every single day." it's his job, he's supposed to. no gold star given.

"He will work his ass off to improve himself. he doesn't believe he is limited"--working his ass off hasn't helped so far. dude can't throw, or read a playbook. hasn't learned. and him not believing he is limited is part of the problem. if he understood his limitations, a la Denard Robinson, he'd be a full back somewhere.

"He will be a leader on the field, the dressing room, and the practice field" --ehhhhh. MAYBE. maybe not though. with all that is being said about Yag players coming out of the closet, I wonder what timmy tebow would have to say about that. might turn a lot of guys off. zinger.

"He will have no off field dramas"--disagree. he's already run into drama w/speaking at uber conservative evangelical churches. He had to cancel one engagement already. it's only a matter of time before skip bayless gets caught lurking outside his bedroom window late at night. scandal!

"He won't melt under pressure"--he's got the clutch gene? maybe. i don't really believe in this so-called clutch gene. i think mental approach and footwork are a lot more important to a QB than a so called clutch gene.

"He maybe a media circus, but the attention he gets will distract the germs in the media so that the rest of the team can go about their business"--ahhh, running a million dollar interference. i get it.

"he is a playoff winning QB (not many of them out there)" --vinny vince young.

"What % of players in the NFL tick all these same boxes?" --what is the root of pie.

"considering guys like Tyrod Taylor, Chase Daniel, Matt Leinert, and some of the other bums that hold roster spots*, you can't do worse than having Tebow in your depth chart somewhere" --again. disagree. he's an ego maniac that should be playing full back. or H-back. or anything but QB. He's an extremely gifted athlete with a strong desire to win, but so are a lot of NFL players. doesn't mean they should be on a roster if they can't contribute.

Agree with this assessment.

He also isn't a playoff winning QB, unless Alan meant that he has won a playoff game. He is 1-1 in the playoffs. If it was intended that since he has won a playoff game, he is a winning playoff QB, there are lots of QBs who have won 1 playoff game (or 2 or 3 even).

I'm not even saying that he shouldn't get (or doesn't deserve) a roster spot....but it certainly wouldn't be at QB. If you want to give him a spot on your team for the leadership qualities and overall positive attitude that may translate into a winning culture, I'm all for it, but he'd be playing TE or H-Back, or even FB.

 

[Carolina Guy]

Jax simply won't take him on principle. He had the opportunity to accept the trade offer last year from Denver and opted instead for the Jets offer. Tebow burned that bridge in the eyes of the Jax ownership.

 

[Carolina Guy]

Elturbre88,

Tebow may not be a starting QB in the NFL, but he's a hell of a lot better than you gave him credit for. You didn't cut the MF any slack. I'd say you are more than biased against Tebow. Your opinion, though.

 

[reNew Orleans]

The Philadelphia Soul have offered Tim Tebow a job as their backup quarterback.

This one is interesting because former Eagles quarterback and top-notch analyst Ron Jaworski is a co-owner of the Soul. He sent Tebow some plays he had in mind for him, mostly around the goal line. "One [criticism] of Tebow is that he is slow and methodical," Jaws said. "He would be forced to quicken it up in this league and it would be good training for him. You can learn a lot in this league. It's about processing information and getting the ball out...or you get whacked." Jaws did make it clear that Dan Raudabaugh would remain the Soul's starting quarterback no matter what. Tebow has zero known NFL suitors.
Source: Philadelphia Daily News
May 14 - 9:54 AM

 

[ClubDirt]

i'm not sure i'd say gabbert sucks and that isn't changing. i'd say gabbert was, and still is, in an impossible situation. in his first year, can anyone name his wide receivers? those weren't nfl caliber wide receives. he had a half ass line that had a lot of injuries over the season. they'v had 3 coaches since 2011. last season, he lost their best and only offensive threat. anyone grading gabbert should give him an incomplete because there is no way to evaluate a rookie qb in the situation he's had. obviously he's no luck or RG3 but i don't see how anyone can say whether he's a legitimate nfl qb or not.

 

[reNew Orleans]

CHUCK NORRIS APPROVED

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9...tim-tebow-urges-jacksonville-jaguars-sign-him

 

[Elbutre88]

Elturbre88,

Tebow may not be a starting QB in the NFL, but he's a hell of a lot better than you gave him credit for. You didn't cut the MF any slack. I'd say you are more than biased against Tebow. Your opinion, though.

i gotta start cutting him slack on that horrible throwing motion and 47.9% completion ratio. my bad. slack given.

 

[D-Woww]

i'm not sure i'd say gabbert sucks and that isn't changing. i'd say gabbert was, and still is, in an impossible situation. in his first year, can anyone name his wide receivers? those weren't nfl caliber wide receives. he had a half ass line that had a lot of injuries over the season. they'v had 3 coaches since 2011. last season, he lost their best and only offensive threat. anyone grading gabbert should give him an incomplete because there is no way to evaluate a rookie qb in the situation he's had. obviously he's no luck or RG3 but i don't see how anyone can say whether he's a legitimate nfl qb or not.

i actually agree with this 100%, but this happens to qbs who are drafted by shitty teams. I still think David Carr could ahve been a star. Like Gabbert, put in just an impossible situation. Fact is, Gabbert was the kind of qb who needed to sit a year and learn how to run a pro offense. Getting thrown into the fire on a shitty team with no veteran to learn from was not fair to him, but it definitely stunted his growth. It just sucks for guys like that, now the best they can hope for is a decent career as a backup and hopefully he didnt blow all his bonus money

 

[D-Woww]

i gotta start cutting him slack on that horrible throwing motion and 47.9% completion ratio. my bad. slack given.

Its ridiculous how far the hate goes on him though. Really ridiculous. the guy won games, and you can make whatever case you want against him, but everywhere the guy has gone and played in his life, good things happened. He plays inspired football and I do think there is something to be said for that.

I don't think hes a superstar and I don't think a great team should make him a starter, but look at some of the qbs who started games last year? You gonna tell me that Tebow's x factor doesnt give him the edge over those guys?

I just don't get the hate, let the guy fail before you write him off and say he can't do shit. hes never done that yet in his life

 

[twinkie13]

NE Patriots

 

[guaranteeed]

Bellicheck will use him wisely

I.e not a qb

 

[crawdads]

It's bullshit how the jets treated him. Probably the Pats as a #3.

:hello:

 

[Schrute]

Like whoa

 

[detroit187]

They aren't too proud to sign him, they just know football. Seriously, you really think Tebow is an NFL QB? He literally cannot throw the football anywhere near what you need from an NFL-caliber QB. Jacksonville certainly doesn't have a top QB (or even close right now), but he can throw the ball like an adult man, so he's head and shoulders above Tebow.

Do you guys really think that, at this point, every single NFL team is stone-cold wrong about Tebow? Come on now.

i think if you read my statement prior to your reply, you would understand that is not EVEN CLOSE to what i am saying

and obviously someone believes in him in some as a qb that can help the team in a pinch and its Billy.

FWIW, i think he will put him in some goal line packages and that will be about it and some trick plays. Either way, kid can be an asset to a football team. And yes, i think if he was a qb in jacksonville last year and started every game they would have won a game or two more than blaine gabbert/chad henne. just a wild ass, insane assumption from his one year in denver.

 

[nbafan88]

Gotta remember to bet tebow TD props when they play the jets.

 

[detroit187]

Its ridiculous how far the hate goes on him though. Really ridiculous. the guy won games, and you can make whatever case you want against him, but everywhere the guy has gone and played in his life, good things happened. He plays inspired football and I do think there is something to be said for that.

I don't think hes a superstar and I don't think a great team should make him a starter, but look at some of the qbs who started games last year? You gonna tell me that Tebow's x factor doesnt give him the edge over those guys?

I just don't get the hate, let the guy fail before you write him off and say he can't do shit. hes never done that yet in his life

agree 100%, people just want to hate this guy and i get it, but its not like he didnt win games in denver and have other defenses, including the vaunted jets and steelers just shaking their heads at him. whatever he sucks, he likes jesus, he got lucky in about 11 pro football games including a playoff game. maybe jesus just likes him more than most or maybe he is jesus?

what i do know is espn just wet their pants; lebron d suck and tebow mania will carry them deep into the summer until favre decides to come out of retirement. still have some tiger golf tournaments to fill this season, tmz will be going strong!! errr espn

 

[detroit187]

Gotta remember to bet tebow TD props when they play the jets.

over 1.5 at +400 sounds good to me

 

[Lareux]

i think if you read my statement prior to your reply, you would understand that is not EVEN CLOSE to what i am saying

and obviously someone believes in him in some as a qb that can help the team in a pinch and its Billy.

FWIW, i think he will put him in some goal line packages and that will be about it and some trick plays. Either way, kid can be an asset to a football team. And yes, i think if he was a qb in jacksonville last year and started every game they would have won a game or two more than blaine gabbert/chad henne. just a wild ass, insane assumption from his one year in denver.

I quoted your post in my reply...here was your quote...and it was your post, in its entirety...

these teams are acting too proud to sign him, like they have so much better at the position. jacksonville is laughable.

I'm not sure what I misunderstood, you clearly said that teams were acting too proud to sign him. You then said they have much better 'at the position' which obviously means QB. If you've read any of the other posts by me in this thread, I have said that he would be valuable to a team....just not at QB.

It's no surprise to me that the Pats signed him (if any team was going to), but I don't agree with you that 'someone believes in him at QB.' Billy signed Tebow to play something other than QB, so while he may be in on some goal line packages, I don't think it will be at QB (there's almost zero chance unless the game is a blowout...could you imagine pulling Tom Brady for Tebow at any point in a game?). I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of how Jax would have fared with him at QB. He is not an NFL QB, and I don't even think the Pats think he is regardless of them signing him.

:shake:

 

[Lareux]

Its ridiculous how far the hate goes on him though. Really ridiculous. the guy won games, and you can make whatever case you want against him, but everywhere the guy has gone and played in his life, good things happened. He plays inspired football and I do think there is something to be said for that.

I don't think hes a superstar and I don't think a great team should make him a starter, but look at some of the qbs who started games last year? You gonna tell me that Tebow's x factor doesnt give him the edge over those guys?

I just don't get the hate, let the guy fail before you write him off and say he can't do shit. hes never done that yet in his life

The hate is for the hype he receives, even though he's not an NFL QB. He only gets the hype due to the ESPN hype machine, and the fact that he's always tied to God and his faith. I'm not disagreeing that he can be an asset for a team, but there are plenty of scrub QBs who get hated on just as much, and deservedly so. People seem to feel sorry for Tebow based on his faith, which makes little sense. He isn't an NFL caliber QB as it stands right now. If someone can teach him to throw properly, read a defense, etc, etc, then maybe he can be. He is certainly one of the most inspirational guys to have on your team, I'm not taking that away from him.

 

[ClubDirt]

i actually agree with this 100%, but this happens to qbs who are drafted by shitty teams. I still think David Carr could ahve been a star. Like Gabbert, put in just an impossible situation. Fact is, Gabbert was the kind of qb who needed to sit a year and learn how to run a pro offense. Getting thrown into the fire on a shitty team with no veteran to learn from was not fair to him, but it definitely stunted his growth. It just sucks for guys like that, now the best they can hope for is a decent career as a backup and hopefully he didnt blow all his bonus money

i forgot about this thread.

i'm actually of the strong opinion that every rookie qb should sit at least one year and if they did, they would almost without exception be much better down the road.

as for tebow, they give him a minimum contract, there is certainly no guarantee he's on the team come week one. but hopefully he can put these qb aspirations behind him and find a spot that suits him better.

 

[DaRaiders]

Good for TT...if any one coach can find a place/way for Tebow to succeed it's Bellichik.

 

[DaRaiders]

Tebow is a public favorite so NBA says to fade him!!!

http://espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=frontpage&pollId=3739251

 

[twinkie13]

I quoted your post in my reply...here was your quote...and it was your post, in its entirety...



I'm not sure what I misunderstood, you clearly said that teams were acting too proud to sign him. You then said they have much better 'at the position' which obviously means QB. If you've read any of the other posts by me in this thread, I have said that he would be valuable to a team....just not at QB.

It's no surprise to me that the Pats signed him (if any team was going to), but I don't agree with you that 'someone believes in him at QB.' Billy signed Tebow to play something other than QB, so while he may be in on some goal line packages, I don't think it will be at QB (there's almost zero chance unless the game is a blowout...could you imagine pulling Tom Brady for Tebow at any point in a game?). I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of how Jax would have fared with him at QB. He is not an NFL QB, and I don't even think the Pats think he is regardless of them signing him.

:shake:

ehhhh...i get what you mean. He was though...a playoff winning one at that:wtf2:

 

[twinkie13]

over 1.5 at +400 sounds good to me

set at 2.5

 

[twinkie13]

Belly gonna put him in there somewhere....not like feet fucker, but somewhere

Flutie kicked a PAT once for Bill....Tebow is 3rd string and will get some action here and there....believe that

 

[detroit187]

I quoted your post in my reply...here was your quote...and it was your post, in its entirety...



I'm not sure what I misunderstood, you clearly said that teams were acting too proud to sign him. You then said they have much better 'at the position' which obviously means QB. If you've read any of the other posts by me in this thread, I have said that he would be valuable to a team....just not at QB.

It's no surprise to me that the Pats signed him (if any team was going to), but I don't agree with you that 'someone believes in him at QB.' Billy signed Tebow to play something other than QB, so while he may be in on some goal line packages, I don't think it will be at QB (there's almost zero chance unless the game is a blowout...could you imagine pulling Tom Brady for Tebow at any point in a game?). I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of how Jax would have fared with him at QB. He is not an NFL QB, and I don't even think the Pats think he is regardless of them signing him.

:shake:

well you just misunderstood what i meant, i was talking about the post prior to that in this thread, not the one you just cited.

i do believe some teams were acting too proud to sign him for one reason or another. and while i said hes not a good qb, repeatedly, he is on hell of a leader and i maintain a team like the jags would do better with him over gabbert. whether thats a win or two or whatever, cant imagine it being worse.

 

[detroit187]

minority here, but pardon me while i would love to see some team give him the reins next year and see what he does with it. to me, dude played one year and played out of his mind considering his skill level throwing the football. no i do not think he is a good qb by any means, but probably one of the best leaders in the game. just would love to see it one more year. though it will never happen and i understand from a football perspective why.

i was referring to this one man, sheesh

 

[detroit187]

i would take tim tebow over blaine gabbert on my nfl team any day of the week and twice on sunday.

 

[RetroVK]

Who are the other backups who win at a tebow clip that are being hated on though? The guy has been nails as a starting QB ... and moreover he was being hamstrung by his coach until the fourth qtr every game where he would then be allowed to throw and then ....what do you know, he produced. Guy is a winner in life and on the football field. The kid has scoreboard and the NFL machine hates it. I hope he never ends up in scandal because it will get blown way out of proportion...... living life as a true asset to other people makes some people feel bad about themselves and the way they live and that is where most of the tebow hate really comes from.

 

[nbafan88]

set at 2.5

how many TDs Tebow will have this season?

 

[nbafan88]

Who are the other backups who win at a tebow clip that are being hated on though? The guy has been nails as a starting QB ... and moreover he was being hamstrung by his coach until the fourth qtr every game where he would then be allowed to throw and then ....what do you know, he produced. Guy is a winner in life and on the football field. The kid has scoreboard and the NFL machine hates it. I hope he never ends up in scandal because it will get blown way out of proportion...... living life as a true asset to other people makes some people feel bad about themselves and the way they live and that is where most of the tebow hate really comes from.

No. Most of the tebow hate comes from the fact that he is not a NFL QB and he gets way too much publicity as a QB when he truly isn't one. That is never going to change.

 

[tru]

Who are the other backups who win at a tebow clip that are being hated on though? The guy has been nails as a starting QB ... and moreover he was being hamstrung by his coach until the fourth qtr every game where he would then be allowed to throw and then ....what do you know, he produced. Guy is a winner in life and on the football field. The kid has scoreboard and the NFL machine hates it. I hope he never ends up in scandal because it will get blown way out of proportion...... living life as a true asset to other people makes some people feel bad about themselves and the way they live and that is where most of the tebow hate really comes from.

Tim tebow is no damn Vince young Kyle

:shake:

 

[Retburj13]

 

[tru]

:rofl:

 

[twinkie13]

how many TDs Tebow will have this season?

RJ bell

 

[nbafan88]

Belichick is the best thing to happen to Tebow. If there is one to end the tebow mania phenomenon its by letting BB be the voice behind it

 

[Lareux]

i would take tim tebow over blaine gabbert on my nfl team any day of the week and twice on sunday.

You're clearly in the minority here Detroit, or Jax or another team with a bad QB would have done so already. Not knocking you, just pointing out a fact.

 

[Lareux]

Who are the other backups who win at a tebow clip that are being hated on though? The guy has been nails as a starting QB ... and moreover he was being hamstrung by his coach until the fourth qtr every game where he would then be allowed to throw and then ....what do you know, he produced. Guy is a winner in life and on the football field. The kid has scoreboard and the NFL machine hates it. I hope he never ends up in scandal because it will get blown way out of proportion...... living life as a true asset to other people makes some people feel bad about themselves and the way they live and that is where most of the tebow hate really comes from.

Why do they have to be backups that are hated on? Go to any city with a shitty QB and let me know how long it takes to hear the hate of the QB. Those dudes don't get 'hated on' on a national stage, and that's why the Tebow circus in so infuriating....not only does he not get picked apart on ESPN, he gets lauded and drooled over.

You really think he is an NFL caliber QB though? And that every single other person in the NFL right now who you've heard asked about the subject is completely 100% wrong about him?

 

[cudder]

Tebows qbr is better than gabberts

 

[Lareux]

Tebows qbr is better than gabberts

The QBR that ESPN invented, or the real QB rating that we've grown accustomed to?

Either way, so his QBR is better than one QB. Could just be that Gabbert isn't an NFL QB either, which he very well may not be.

 

[RetroVK]

Why do they have to be backups that are hated on? Go to any city with a shitty QB and let me know how long it takes to hear the hate of the QB. Those dudes don't get 'hated on' on a national stage, and that's why the Tebow circus in so infuriating....not only does he not get picked apart on ESPN, he gets lauded and drooled over.

You really think he is an NFL caliber QB though? And that every single other person in the NFL right now who you've heard asked about the subject is completely 100% wrong about him?

Yes I think he is an nfl caliber qb. He wins as a starting qb in the nfl. Winning is all I really care about. Jeff George, Matt Stafford, etc etc can look so pretty and effective but they can't win football games. You can have all the pretty stats, the pretty league as it is now ... Tebow won .... not just with a good team ... he took a team that was getting its ass kicked and turned their season around ... he took the team on his back in the 4th qtr and pulled out wins ... he won his division .. he made the playoffs ... he then beat one of the better playoff qb's of the past decade in overtime on a TD pass. He then never got to start in the nfl again and barely even got to take a snap. Again .. he has scoreboard. It doesn't matter what we think should happen imo it matters what actually has happened. Guy wins. VY wins. People don't like how they win so they get deprived of their opportunity. I don't understand how anyone can think he is not an nfl caliber qb ... he has won at every single level and even more remarkable about his run two years ago was that he was basically a rookie qb. Meanwhile we drool over cam newton who can't win a football game. Intangibles matter. Though all that really matters is winning and Tebow has scoreboard.

 

[RetroVK]

Incidentally, he is 1-0 against the jets too. F them.

 

[RetroVK]

Anyone who doesn't think Tebow can play nfl qb loses the right to complain when their team loses pretty.

 

[D-Woww]

VK we have never agreed on something this much. I don't care what his religious views are, I don't care if he throws pretty, I don't care if hes conventional. He wins. There are no style points in the NFL.

 

[Lareux]

Yes I think he is an nfl caliber qb. He wins as a starting qb in the nfl. Winning is all I really care about. Jeff George, Matt Stafford, etc etc can look so pretty and effective but they can't win football games. You can have all the pretty stats, the pretty league as it is now ... Tebow won .... not just with a good team ... he took a team that was getting its ass kicked and turned their season around ... he took the team on his back in the 4th qtr and pulled out wins ... he won his division .. he made the playoffs ... he then beat one of the better playoff qb's of the past decade in overtime on a TD pass. He then never got to start in the nfl again and barely even got to take a snap. Again .. he has scoreboard. It doesn't matter what we think should happen imo it matters what actually has happened. Guy wins. VY wins. People don't like how they win so they get deprived of their opportunity. I don't understand how anyone can think he is not an nfl caliber qb ... he has won at every single level and even more remarkable about his run two years ago was that he was basically a rookie qb. Meanwhile we drool over cam newton who can't win a football game. Intangibles matter. Though all that really matters is winning and Tebow has scoreboard.

Tebow wasn't the reason the Broncos made the playoffs and won 1 game in them. Sure, he gets some of the credit, but you couldn't have honestly watched that season and said that Tebow was the main (and sole) reason they made the playoffs. I know you're smarter than that VK. Let me dig up a few of the countless articles that point to the defense having waaaaaaaaay much more to do with the Broncos making the playoffs that year than Tebow did.

 

[detroit187]

You're clearly in the minority here Detroit, or Jax or another team with a bad QB would have done so already. Not knocking you, just pointing out a fact.

i dont believe i am according to, at the minimum this discussion board. i will take being in the minority with billy any day. someone would have signed him if not for bill. i also think u must factor in the 'distraction' factor for a % of teams not signing him. espn is most to blame for that.

 

[KJ]

Tebow wasn't the reason the Broncos made the playoffs and won 1 game in them. Sure, he gets some of the credit, but you couldn't have honestly watched that season and said that Tebow was the main (and sole) reason they made the playoffs. I know you're smarter than that VK. Let me dig up a few of the countless articles that point to the defense having waaaaaaaaay much more to do with the Broncos making the playoffs that year than Tebow did.

some people will never get this but tebow will forever be credited with a playoff victory that about 50 other people were responsible for. it's a shame they don't get the credit and he does for failing 58 minutes of a 60 minute game.

 

[Lareux]

i dont believe i am according to, at the minimum this discussion board. i will take being in the minority with billy any day. someone would have signed him if not for bill. i also think u must factor in the 'distraction' factor for a % of teams not signing him. espn is most to blame for that.

Billy didn't sign him to be a fucking QB though detroit. I AGREED WITH YOU THAT HE HAS VALUE, but not as a QB. Billy doesn't either. You aren't in the minority with him. You really think he was brought in to be a QB? Come on dude.

And there are like 3 or 4 dudes on here that think he is a starting NFL QB. But that's not who I was talking about when I referred to the minority.

 

[detroit187]

Tebow wasn't the reason the Broncos made the playoffs and won 1 game in them. Sure, he gets some of the credit, but you couldn't have honestly watched that season and said that Tebow was the main (and sole) reason they made the playoffs. I know you're smarter than that VK. Let me dig up a few of the countless articles that point to the defense having waaaaaaaaay much more to do with the Broncos making the playoffs that year than Tebow did.

no he wasnt THE reason, but he was a big reason along with the defense, which wasnt "great" by any means. i think if you went through 32 nfl teams you would never ever find one guy to be THE reason, whether it be brees, brady, rodgers. those guys have all proven even they cant win with a shitty D.

i would love to see him go to carolina and back up cam and if cam went down with an injury go step in that type of offense. no doubt, you have to cater an entire offense to his deficiencies, not arguable. but his intangibles are off the charts.

i would never choose him to be my starting qb, unless i had the situation of the jets, cards, and jags last year. i would rather him lead my team than gabbert, skelton, sanchez, lindley etc.

i mean he did lead comeback drives repeatedly for denver against the bears, jets, and steelers all in must win games. and i am probably missing a couple others.

 

[Lareux]

no he wasnt THE reason, but he was a big reason along with the defense, which wasnt "great" by any means. i think if you went through 32 nfl teams you would never ever find one guy to be THE reason, whether it be brees, brady, rodgers. those guys have all proven even they cant win with a shitty D.

i would love to see him go to carolina and back up cam and if cam went down with an injury go step in that type of offense. no doubt, you have to cater an entire offense to his deficiencies, not arguable. but his intangibles are off the charts.

i would never choose him to be my starting qb, unless i had the situation of the jets, cards, and jags last year. i would rather him lead my team than gabbert, skelton, sanchez, lindley etc.

i mean he did lead comeback drives repeatedly for denver against the bears, jets, and steelers all in must win games. and i am probably missing a couple others.

The defense, when Tebow was the starter, was the best in the NFL over that stretch.

The only reason he was in a position to lead those drives was because the defense held the opposition to under 14 points in the first 50+ minutes of the game.

And if he wasn't the reason, why do people keep saying "he won the game" "he did this, he did that?"