Tony Dungy

Gorgolon Lives

Gorgolon Lives

The Reverend of CTG
Many folks are blowing this story out of proportion, and I am not sure why. Dungy said that he would not draft Mike Sam because essentially Sam would be a distraction for the team. Sam is an average NFL talent -- 7th round pick. Dungy's comment is logical. Why take a chance on a 7th round pick who will certainly bring a tremendous amount of national media attention to your team? A team's goal is to gel together, build chemistry, and try to win a Superbowl. Sam is unlikely to have much on the field impact (at least in his first year, if at all), so why take the risk of drafting him when the move could have a negative impact on the team overall?

Dungy stated a football opinion. His comment wasn't some sort of Yag bashing or "bigotry." I was shocked to see so much backlash on the internet. If Sam was an elite prospect and potential overall #1 pick, I'm pretty sure Dungy would give more consideration to drafting him. Because Sam is a 7th round lottery ticket, the gamble is not worth the potential risk to the team.

This was a football opinion, not a social commentary on gays.

:shake:
 
the part i find confusing is how dungy publicly lobbied for teams to take a chance on mike vick, but then says the distractions of a Yag 7th rounder would be too much for him to handle. it's hard for me to say that's not hypocritical.
 
It was a foot in the mouth, better left unsaid. Why say anything?

If Terry Bradshaw said it, it wouldn't be much of a story. But Dungy is perceived as thoughtful, insightful. Since he's an outspoken Christian, even though he didn't frame the comment in that context at all, it's going to get some negative attention. From most of America, who are sick of Christian Yag-bashing. It will go away like everything else does, but I bet he wishes he hadn't elaborated on it.

The "distraction" stuff is such bullshit. There have probably been hundreds, thousands of Yag pro athletes over the years who weren't exactly within the closet in the locker room and managed to not be a distraction. Maybe not on John Rocker's Braves. Hell, Sam himself sure didn't seem to distract Missouri much.
 
Also, I've always found Tony Dungy to be quite effeminate.
 
Elbutre88 said:
the part i find confusing is how dungy publicly lobbied for teams to take a chance on mike vick, but then says the distractions of a Yag 7th rounder would be too much for him to handle. it's hard for me to say that's not hypocritical.
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But Mike Vick was a pro bowl winning QB. Both players are not comparable. It made sense for someone to take a risk (albeit huge) on Vick.
 
7th-round picks aren't risks. Neither are Yag players. Both have been in the NFL for years.

If you don't think the rest of the team can handle a "publicly" Yag player, you're either wrong or the team wasn't going anywhere anyway. It's not 1955.
 
Dungy, being so thoughtful and all, should probably recognize that the draft pick was bigger than the Rams. My guess is that during his coaching tenure, players on his teams - star players and bit players - have been in legal trouble, addiction trouble, psycho trouble, family trouble … all sorts of personal matters. To these distractions, he has an open heart. Sam doesn't even have any troubles or problems, as far as we know, right? But Dungy urges caution with this guy.

The scouts of CTG tell me this guy won't be a good pro anyway, and maybe he came out for publicity, etc. The story will go away. But it was a good opportunity for Dungy to either say something nice, or shut up.
 
tipyerbartender said:
It was a foot in the mouth, better left unsaid. Why say anything?

If Terry Bradshaw said it, it wouldn't be much of a story. But Dungy is perceived as thoughtful, insightful. Since he's an outspoken Christian, even though he didn't frame the comment in that context at all, it's going to get some negative attention. From most of America, who are sick of Christian Yag-bashing. It will go away like everything else does, but I bet he wishes he hadn't elaborated on it.

The "distraction" stuff is such bullshit. There have probably been hundreds, thousands of Yag pro athletes over the years who weren't exactly within the closet in the locker room and managed to not be a distraction. Maybe not on John Rocker's Braves. Hell, Sam himself sure didn't seem to distract Missouri much.
Click to expand...

You're missing the point on what the distraction will be....Sam isn't going to be the distraction, and I agree there have been Yag players in the past who haven't caused any....the media and the countless stories and interview requests ARE going to be a distraction. There's almost no way around it at this point, it's the world in which we live.
 
Lareux said:
You're missing the point on what the distraction will be....Sam isn't going to be the distraction, and I agree there have been Yag players in the past who haven't caused any....the media and the countless stories and interview requests ARE going to be a distraction. There's almost no way around it at this point, it's the world in which we live.
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This is what I and Dungy are referring to.
 
Lareux said:
You're missing the point on what the distraction will be....Sam isn't going to be the distraction, and I agree there have been Yag players in the past who haven't caused any....the media and the countless stories and interview requests ARE going to be a distraction. There's almost no way around it at this point, it's the world in which we live.
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You're missing my point. You're describing a weak team with no leadership. It takes about 15 seconds, few times a week, to say, "not an issue."
 
A 7th round pick who's a borderline NFL talent is not worth the risk of having so much media attention distract from the goal of winning a superbowl. It's a huge reason Bellicheck doesn't want his players talking to the media.
 
Gorgolon Lives said:
A 7th round pick who's a borderline NFL talent is not worth the risk of having so much media attention distract from the goal of winning a superbowl. It's a huge reason Bellicheck doesn't want his players talking to the media.
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Super Bill drafted a known psychopath, prior to the 7th round.
 
Winning NFL football games and dealing with the media isn't splitting the atom. Has probably 99% to do with talent and coaching, and 1% to do with lack of distractions. (Those are my estimates.)

It can be done with a Yag player. Hell, well more than half the attention would be positive, if you just answer the questions like Crash Davis taught you.
 
tipyerbartender said:
You're missing my point. You're describing a weak team with no leadership. It takes about 15 seconds, few times a week, to say, "not an issue."
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Good leadership or not, having 200 media members as opposed to 50 is going to be a distraction, period. The Rams, themselves, have even admitted as much, have they not? No one is saying that the players have an issue with a Yag dude, or even that they only have to say "not an issue" to questions....have you watched the media in recent years though? You honestly think this huge crew of media will show up to ask their questions, then just leave after everyone says "not an issue?" That would be a Utopia for sure, but that's not exactly how it works anymore.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Winning NFL football games and dealing with the media isn't splitting the atom. Has probably 99% to do with talent and coaching, and 1% to do with lack of distractions. (Those are my estimates.)

It can be done with a Yag player. Hell, well more than half the attention would be positive, if you just answer the questions like Crash Davis taught you.
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Well, since we've never seen it we don't really know, do we? And, I'm sorry Tip from Cleveland, but I'm going to take the thoughts of current and former NFL players all day long....and I haven't really heard too many of them say it won't be a distraction.
 
Lareux said:
Good leadership or not, having 200 media members as opposed to 50 is going to be a distraction, period. The Rams, themselves, have even admitted as much, have they not? No one is saying that the players have an issue with a Yag dude, or even that they only have to say "not an issue" to questions....have you watched the media in recent years though? You honestly think this huge crew of media will show up to ask their questions, then just leave after everyone says "not an issue?" That would be a Utopia for sure, but that's not exactly how it works anymore.
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You honestly think they would return, every week, every practice, and keep asking the same questions?
 
tipyerbartender said:
You're missing my point. You're describing a weak team with no leadership. It takes about 15 seconds, few times a week, to say, "not an issue."
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And it it takes one retard homophobe in the locker room to recreate the Dolphins media sensation of 2013. There are plenty of idiots in an NFL locker room.
 
Schrute said:
And it it takes one retard homophobe in the locker room to recreate the Dolphins media sensation of 2013. There are plenty of idiots in an NFL locker room.
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And that's the Dolphins.
 
tipyerbartender said:
You honestly think they would return, every week, every practice, and keep asking the same questions?
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Yes. It will die out eventually, but yes. You do realize that the Kardsahians and Honey Boo Boo are popular in this country, along with homophobes with long beards who make fucking duck calls right? They cater to their audience.
 
Gorgolon Lives said:
But Mike Vick was a pro bowl winning QB. Both players are not comparable. It made sense for someone to take a risk (albeit huge) on Vick.
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Vick had protesters outside the eagles training facility, and he clearly lost a step since prison. I don't think you can take a stance that dungy did with Vick, while taking the opposite view with Sam. Hell, the eagles didn't win shit with Vick, who knows how good Sam will or won't be?
 
Lareux said:
Yes. It will die out eventually, but yes. You do realize that the Kardsahians and Honey Boo Boo are popular in this country, along with homophobes with long beards who make fucking duck calls right? They cater to their audience.
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How many weeks would it take for it to be ridiculously funny, in favor of the Rams' not laughing with you but at you, for you to ask the same question and get the same answer about a particular Ram?

"Yep, he's still Yag I think, hasn't really come up, still not an issue."
 
Lareux said:
Oh, so you know that the Rams have "better leadership" than the Dolphins? Since you're a Rams insider, can't wait for some info this year.
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I'm saying the Dolphins have sucked, and it's probably not due to the media attention.
 
tipyerbartender said:
How many weeks would it take for it to be ridiculously funny, in favor of the Rams' not laughing with you but at you, for you to ask the same question and get the same answer about a particular Ram?

"Yep, he's still Yag I think, hasn't really come up, still not an issue."
Click to expand...

Watch a press conference I guess....they will ask the same question 10 different times in 5 minutes. Literally, the same exact question 10 times in 5 minutes. That's what they do.
 
^ just watch from the 2 minute mark.... like him or not..think he hits the nail on the head..
 
Tony Dungy made the mistake of saying something that could be construed as anti Yag. You can't do that in today's society. Hell people get attacked for being against Yag marriage. It's political correctness run amuck
 
Lareux said:
Watch a press conference I guess....they will ask the same question 10 different times in 5 minutes. Literally, the same exact question 10 times in 5 minutes. That's what they do.
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Yes, I've observed it too. 10 different times, 10 different ways, in 5 minutes, that's the media digging for an unusual answer. I don't think questions about Yag guys on the team are inherently more "distracting" than questions about a player's DUI's, dog murdering, super-duper-Christian beliefs, beating the rap on knife-murdering, beating his fiancé half to death in an elevator, gang-murdering every slug in Boston, floating on an inflatable swan with a bottle of booze, or general NFL mayhem. It's not difficult to stonewall the media. Hell, some guys make an art of it and seem to find it gratifying.
 
SIGO said:
Anytime Keith Olbermann attacks someone that person must doing something right. He's a terrible human being from what I've read
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Maybe the message belies the messenger. Sometimes. I'm guilty of disregarding stuff for this reason too.
 
Dungy framed it in a football way. That's why it will go away in a few days.

I don't have a problem with any team passing on Sam. I don't even have a problem with a team passing on Sam for the reasons Dungy publicly stated, or hinted at, the "risk" and "distraction" stuff. I think that's really stupid, and he's got his head buried in the bible and the 20th century, but that's me. The right thing is often distracting. I'll go Branch Rickey, Bill Veeck, Jackie Robinson, and Larry Doby over Tony Dungy on the importance of first, distractions be damned.

Saying what Dungy said out loud serves no purpose. It's not a PC thing. The sensible thing, given Dungy's personal beliefs, would have been that he didn't fault NFL teams for passing on Sam due to talent, or maybe he just didn't know why NFL teams passed on Sam. Even if he knew, hell we all knew. Dungy wasn't reporting, he was commenting. He's not on the 700 Club. Stay in your lane.
 
How do you think every Yag player Dungy has ever coached (I'm going to assume there are more than one) feel about Dungy's comments? How do you think black players, how do you think black PEOPLE, would respond if Dungy had publicly applauded teams other than the Dodgers and Indians for avoiding the distractions of fielding Jackie Robinson and Larry Doby. Now THAT was a distraction.

A fucking Yag player a distraction? In 2014??? Please.

Pay me the NFL minimum, guy can sleep in my bed. And I'll talk to the press about sleep every morning. (No spooning though.)
 
tipyerbartender said:
Yes, I've observed it too. 10 different times, 10 different ways, in 5 minutes, that's the media digging for an unusual answer. I don't think questions about Yag guys on the team are inherently more "distracting" than questions about a player's DUI's, dog murdering, super-duper-Christian beliefs, beating the rap on knife-murdering, beating his fiancé half to death in an elevator, gang-murdering every slug in Boston, floating on an inflatable swan with a bottle of booze, or general NFL mayhem. It's not difficult to stonewall the media. Hell, some guys make an art of it and seem to find it gratifying.
Click to expand...

It's not the questions that are the distraction, it's the media presence itself. There will be 4 or 5 times the amount of media members at their training camp....THAT is the distraction.

Are you just taking the other side to have some fun as you normally do? I don't see how you honestly feel it won't be somewhat of a distraction to these guys.
 
SIGO said:
Tony Dungy made the mistake of saying something that could be construed as anti Yag. You can't do that in today's society. Hell people get attacked for being against Yag marriage. It's political correctness run amuck
Click to expand...

These are my thoughts as well. What he said was about football, but media (liberal bias) construing at as anti-Yag. Sad
 
Gorgolon Lives said:
These are my thoughts as well. What he said was about football, but media (liberal bias) construing at as anti-Yag. Sad
Click to expand...

Exactly my thoughts as well. However, the reaction to what Dungy said (even though it was about football) is exemplifying the distraction this is going to be. Dungy made some innocuous statement and look how that's turned out, one day later. That's what the media does, they twist words to fit their agenda....what do you think is going to happen when one of the 90+ guys in the Rams' training camp says something that he meant as harmless, but can be construed a different way for those with an agenda? Get the big tents and the elephants ready, it's going to be a circus.
 
Lareux said:
It's not the questions that are the distraction, it's the media presence itself. There will be 4 or 5 times the amount of media members at their training camp....THAT is the distraction.

Are you just taking the other side to have some fun as you normally do? I don't see how you honestly feel it won't be somewhat of a distraction to these guys.
Click to expand...

If these guys can't handle the distraction of a excessive attention on their team, whether it be a social issue like homosexuality (as if it's an issue) or a rookie quarterback acting like Joe Namath before training camp … those guys suck. They can deal with it. Wish some other guy's life were the worst of my problems.
 
tipyerbartender said:
If these guys can't handle the distraction of a excessive attention on their team, whether it be a social issue like homosexuality (as if it's an issue) or a rookie quarterback acting like Joe Namath before training camp … those guys suck. They can deal with it. Wish some other guy's life were the worst of my problems.
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Yeah, me too, but we've seen it too many times before to think it's not going to happen. These guys are mostly in their early and middle 20s Tip, they aren't guys on the verge of retirement who have seen it all before.
 
Lareux said:
Exactly my thoughts as well. However, the reaction to what Dungy said (even though it was about football) is exemplifying the distraction this is going to be. Dungy made some innocuous statement and look how that's turned out, one day later. That's what the media does, they twist words to fit their agenda....what do you think is going to happen when one of the 90+ guys in the Rams' training camp says something that he meant as harmless, but can be construed a different way for those with an agenda? Get the big tents and the elephants ready, it's going to be a circus.
Click to expand...

Media circus applies to an ongoing story which engages the public interest. Celebrity kidnappings. OJ Trial. Charlie Sheen. The Middle-East (the granddaddy of 'em all, for longevity). There's nothing ongoing here. Even Pat Robertson will be bored with this story in a few days.
 
For this story to have legs, Sam will have to make the team, cry with Oprah, and get arrested. Any order.
 
tipyerbartender said:
Media circus applies to an ongoing story which engages the public interest. Celebrity kidnappings. OJ Trial. Charlie Sheen. The Middle-East (the granddaddy of 'em all, for longevity). There's nothing ongoing here. Even Pat Robertson will be bored with this story in a few days.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I think you're just way off here. How many days did we hear about the kiss from the day Sam was drafted? How many days/weeks did we hear about that idiot with a beard who makes duck calls when he made anti-Yag remarks? The media thrives on this type of thing, and you're acting as if now, because it's an NFL player, they are suddenly going to stop doing what they always do and act civilized and rational about this. That's hoping for quite a lot. I hope you're right and we don't have to hear and see about it all day long for weeks.
 
tipyerbartender said:
For this story to have legs, Sam will have to make the team, cry with Oprah, and get arrested. Any order.
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It will have more legs if he makes the team, but training camp itself is more than long enough for this to become a distraction. Also, he already signed on to do a documentary/interview with Oprah....which the team put the kibosh on because of the distractions it would cause.
 
Gorgolon Lives said:
These are my thoughts as well. What he said was about football, but media (liberal bias) construing at as anti-Yag. Sad
Click to expand...

Um … his comments were not entirely about football. I will agree that they were about building a football team. They were in no way anti-Yag.

Would you agree that they were stupid, and if we can get past football, at least a little cowardly? You could say the same thing about the guys who passed on Larry Doby. Maybe they weren't racist, but they were cowardly, wrong, and stupid. I don't know who passed on him, they didn't draft black guys then. But they passed on a Hall of Famer, presumably for a white guy who pitches like Kyle Kendrick.

I'm saying that the NFL guys who passed on Sam for "risk"? About being Yag? Dumb guys.
 
Lareux said:
I'm sorry but I think you're just way off here. How many days did we hear about the kiss from the day Sam was drafted? How many days/weeks did we hear about that idiot with a beard who makes duck calls when he made anti-Yag remarks? The media thrives on this type of thing, and you're acting as if now, because it's an NFL player, they are suddenly going to stop doing what they always do and act civilized and rational about this. That's hoping for quite a lot. I hope you're right and we don't have to hear and see about it all day long for weeks.
Click to expand...

I don't really look for it, but Sam's kiss was in my face for a few days. That's it. I hadn't really heard about it again until this thread, and I don't live in a cave (nor St. Louis).
 
tipyerbartender said:
Um … his comments were not entirely about football. I will agree that they were about building a football team. They were in no way anti-Yag.

Would you agree that they were stupid, and if we can get past football, at least a little cowardly? You could say the same thing about the guys who passed on Larry Doby. Maybe they weren't racist, but they were cowardly, wrong, and stupid. I don't know who passed on him, they didn't draft black guys then. But they passed on a Hall of Famer, presumably for a white guy who pitches like Kyle Kendrick.

I'm saying that the NFL guys who passed on Sam for "risk"? About being Yag? Dumb guys.
Click to expand...

All scouts had Mike Sam going late or undrafted. He's just not a great football player. Like all NFL players, I hope he makes a roster. But he's just a guy.
 
^
Gorgy, separate the player from Dungy's comments. It wasn't a fantasy draft, you're not tiering the NFL draft picks. GM's have a job, Sam was drafted where he was, no team said he wasn't worth the distraction, Dungy could have left it at that. What purpose did it serve?

This is just my guess, obviously you and a few disagree.

1.) Most of these knuckleheads don't care about extra cameras. I daresay they love it. Not distracting, guy's not in trouble, guy's not troubling them.

2.) If ESPN stopped reporting on it tomorrow, no one would wonder, "Hey, what's going on with the Yag guy on the Rams?"

3.) Story will go away, whether he makes the team or not. It's just not interesting enough, today.
 
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