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Lareux
Guest
But, again, half of the league makes the playoffs each year. Pretty much everyone has "playoff experience" on their roster in some capacity. You've left that out of your tale.
The 'Stons Journey Back to the Postseason...
- Thread starter B.A.R.
- Start date
But, again, half of the league makes the playoffs each year. Pretty much everyone has "playoff experience" on their roster in some capacity. You've left that out of your tale.
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Lareux
Guest
Nah, he was just a role player bro.
P-Unit
Beacon of Calmness
ball don't lie
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Lareux
Guest
Let's go back to the Cavs example from last year, and their lack of playoff experience, specifically LeBron. Let's say LeBron leave Cleveland and goes to Detroit...do they still need that playoff experience, or does LeBron's playoff experience make up for the lack of it from the other players? They'd probably be the favorite to win the East, and they'd be void of playoff experience outside of one guy. How is that possible? Could it be because they would have just added a ridiculous talent who is still one of the top 3 players in the league? No, it couldn't be that, it's probably just because he's played in a couple hundred playoff games and that experience would just get to the other players via osmosis.
What would the expectations be for that Pistons team? Just make the playoffs and get some experience or win it all?
What would the expectations be for that Pistons team? Just make the playoffs and get some experience or win it all?
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Lareux
Guest
You keep saying that like you've actually made a point that proved you were right.
Again, you agree that not making the playoffs is more advisable in 99.5% of the scenarios. It just so happens that the team you're a fan of isn't one of those scenarios. Coincidence, or just being a fan?
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Lareux
Guest
Okay, it's probably not 99.5% of the time, but it's a VAST majority that you'd agree that a team would be better off not making it as an 8 seed. The only difference here is that you're a fan of the Pistons.
Thanks to you as well. (is this what we do now, or are only mods allowed to do it?)
I am gonna start from scratch so you can get it in your head bubba..
2016 Detroit is a young team, that has very little playoff experience...
It is MORE beneficial for them to make the playoffs and get a taste of that kind of basketball than to get a 11-14 pick in lottery, whatever it is. They are a GROWING team with pieces and cap room to keep growing. They are not Miami or LA, etc that can buy players. That is what it is.
They will grow as a team and hit a ceiling, hopefully that is one that can go deep in playoffs..
IF NOT... in say 3-5 years...then I WOULD LIKE THEM TO MISS playoffs and get a better pick.
Easy enough?
I did that as simple as I could for you.
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Part 2,
Yes, you are wrong about playoff experience. Your rebuttals you have shown have no merit, so keep digging.
2016 Detroit is a young team, that has very little playoff experience...
It is MORE beneficial for them to make the playoffs and get a taste of that kind of basketball than to get a 11-14 pick in lottery, whatever it is. They are a GROWING team with pieces and cap room to keep growing. They are not Miami or LA, etc that can buy players. That is what it is.
They will grow as a team and hit a ceiling, hopefully that is one that can go deep in playoffs..
IF NOT... in say 3-5 years...then I WOULD LIKE THEM TO MISS playoffs and get a better pick.
Easy enough?
I did that as simple as I could for you.
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Part 2,
Yes, you are wrong about playoff experience. Your rebuttals you have shown have no merit, so keep digging.
I would say the same if it was the Sixers next year or whenever all the young pieces play together.
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Lareux
Guest
Makes more sense. When does the team decide when that window is closed and they should opt to not make the playoffs? At that point, what do they do with all of the playoff experience they've gathered in the past 3-5 years? Trade off the pieces and start over? Yeah, that sounds like a great plan (not saying it's your plan, but it's not a good one in any event)
I still don't understand how I'm wrong about playoff experience when not one person has proven that it means anything other than some players and coaches talk in cliches and say it an awful lot.
The league also has a salary cap, so saying that players cannot be afforded is just not correct. Detroit being a shit hole, and other cities not being one is completely different, and you're right. Not much they can do to change that though, can they?
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Lareux
Guest
Fair enough. The number of times in which we see this scenario pop up is seemingly pretty uncommon. The Pistons, as they're currently constructed, doesn't happen very often. Can we find another example of when a team was in a similar scenario, fought for the playoffs for experience, and then ended up winning a title because of that experience (and not because they simply acquired better players like the Heat, Lakers, Celtics, Spurs, and Warriors have done in the recent past)?
I don't see why this is hard to understand lareux? And this isn't me bring on the side of a mod or my home team.. This applies to any team.
Cliff notes
1. Young team
2. You want young team to get better each year. Advance in playoffs.
3. Become a good /great team by experience and savvy decisions by the front office.. Trades, cap room, etc.
4. Become championship contender by blood, sweat, tears.
Now..
If said team becomes a perennial playoff team who has reached their ceiling... Tank games, rebrand your product. Start over. Hello Houston rockets of recent years..
Makes sense to me.
Cliff notes
1. Young team
2. You want young team to get better each year. Advance in playoffs.
3. Become a good /great team by experience and savvy decisions by the front office.. Trades, cap room, etc.
4. Become championship contender by blood, sweat, tears.
Now..
If said team becomes a perennial playoff team who has reached their ceiling... Tank games, rebrand your product. Start over. Hello Houston rockets of recent years..
Makes sense to me.
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Lareux
Guest
Myth 2: Experience matters. Young teams are at an extreme disadvantage when they wade into the playoffs against a battle-tested crew. Or so we're told. Veteran teams do have an edge. But it has nothing to do with players' ages.
We tend to get cause and effect backward. When the Bobcats lost to the Magic in this year's first round, what mattered more -- that they were making their first run as a group or that they were the No. 7 seed facing a 59-game winner? Teams with less playoff experience are usually not as talented as their opponents; that's why they lose.
The last truly inexperienced team to earn a No. 1 seed was the 2001-02 Nets, and they held to form and reached the NBA Finals. The youngest playoff team ever, the 1977-78 Bucks, nearly made the conference finals as a No. 6 after beating a seasoned Phoenix team that had gone to the Finals two years earlier. And while we're used to seeing veteran teams gobbling up the top seeds and rolling to the Finals, that hasn't always been the case. The 1976-77 Blazers won the NBA title in the franchise's (and most of its players') first-ever trip to the postseason. "It's a misconception that youth and inexperience are why you don't win," says Grizzlies coach Lionel Hollins, who knows -- as everyone should -- that factors like talent, health and chemistry are far more important. He knows because he was a starting guard on that Blazers team.
We tend to get cause and effect backward. When the Bobcats lost to the Magic in this year's first round, what mattered more -- that they were making their first run as a group or that they were the No. 7 seed facing a 59-game winner? Teams with less playoff experience are usually not as talented as their opponents; that's why they lose.
The last truly inexperienced team to earn a No. 1 seed was the 2001-02 Nets, and they held to form and reached the NBA Finals. The youngest playoff team ever, the 1977-78 Bucks, nearly made the conference finals as a No. 6 after beating a seasoned Phoenix team that had gone to the Finals two years earlier. And while we're used to seeing veteran teams gobbling up the top seeds and rolling to the Finals, that hasn't always been the case. The 1976-77 Blazers won the NBA title in the franchise's (and most of its players') first-ever trip to the postseason. "It's a misconception that youth and inexperience are why you don't win," says Grizzlies coach Lionel Hollins, who knows -- as everyone should -- that factors like talent, health and chemistry are far more important. He knows because he was a starting guard on that Blazers team.
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Lareux
Guest
That quote right there is why the playoff experience talk is just a self fulfilling prophecy.
These are usually exception to the rule tho.
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Lareux
Guest
Of course there are exceptions, I think I've already conceded that.
If we're discussing this, we aren't simply looking for exceptions, we're talking about what is more likely to make sense, and what a team should do. Again, maybe the Pistons are the perfect storm and the best "exception" we've seen in some time (maybe ever).
The Farm
Sports Apothecary
I sat down and watched the first half of the stones game last night. Listening to all the hype around here and on the radio recently about playoffs had me curious. I haven't been to a game or even watched a game since their last championship. I found the game exciting and fun to watch. I believe that has not been the case since wallace×2 were here. So reaching the playoffs and losing the first round is more beneficial imo than another pathetic losing season without post season hopes. Also the only thing I could think of while writing this post was that THE PISTONS DON'T ACTUALLY PLAY IN DETROIT.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
Time to make some money fading Detroit w/an opponent ATS chase, based upon one specific angle that they've consistently held to all season long & that perfectly coalesces with their coming schedule...
Detroit has gone 5 straight games without suffering a 7+ pt loss
- Their previous longest completed streaks this season without suffering such a loss come in at 7 games (once) then 5 games (2 times) then 3 games (4 times).
- Prior to this current streak, they averaged 1 x 7+ pt loss every 2.91 games played.
Now, Detroit's next 3 opponents are Charlotte, Atlanta & OKC. So, for Detroit to establish a new season high streak of 8 straight games without suffering a 7+ pt loss, it's going to have to manage it against 3 teams who have generally had their way with the Pistons' butt this season. What is Detroit's record against those teams this season? 1-5 SU & ATS (losses by 4, 7, 15, 16 & 20 pts). The one win? against Atlanta on opening night (thus the extenuating circumstance to that result becomes clear).
Then we add in the fact that Detroit's now won 4 consecutive games SU: Not since the 08-09 season (the last time they made the playoffs) has Detroit beaten an Eastern Conf. opponent in Detroit when playing off 4 SU wins in their previous 4 games (0-4 ATS, 3-1 to Over). Now they're expected to do so not only twice in 2 games, but in a b2b situation? To me, they'll be primed to be plucked by OKC in their following game if they pull off said feat.
Given the above stats & a general common sense look at things, logic dictates Detroit is not sweeping their next 3 games SU: I'd say it's quite possible they lose all 3, but I think it more likely they lose one by the 7+ pt margin that the stat trend above is calling for as "due"; they win one; & the 3rd result comes down to a bucket or two either way. Cue this next stat: Detroit is 1-33 ATS in SU losses this season. They lose SU...they lose ATS.
Scheduling wise, I like how this chase pans out. Their "weakest" opponent is first, their strongest last. While Atlanta plays b2b, so does Detroit. And while OKC plays b2b, their previous night's game was @Toronto, so that travel perspective is about as relevant as playing the Lakers & Clippers b2b. All 3 coming opponents are currently in decent form (Cha & Atl both 9-2 SU L11, Okc 7-2 SU L9), so in my book their previous efforts against Detroit this season can be referenced with confidence.
Detroit has gone 5 straight games without suffering a 7+ pt loss
- Their previous longest completed streaks this season without suffering such a loss come in at 7 games (once) then 5 games (2 times) then 3 games (4 times).
- Prior to this current streak, they averaged 1 x 7+ pt loss every 2.91 games played.
Now, Detroit's next 3 opponents are Charlotte, Atlanta & OKC. So, for Detroit to establish a new season high streak of 8 straight games without suffering a 7+ pt loss, it's going to have to manage it against 3 teams who have generally had their way with the Pistons' butt this season. What is Detroit's record against those teams this season? 1-5 SU & ATS (losses by 4, 7, 15, 16 & 20 pts). The one win? against Atlanta on opening night (thus the extenuating circumstance to that result becomes clear).
Then we add in the fact that Detroit's now won 4 consecutive games SU: Not since the 08-09 season (the last time they made the playoffs) has Detroit beaten an Eastern Conf. opponent in Detroit when playing off 4 SU wins in their previous 4 games (0-4 ATS, 3-1 to Over). Now they're expected to do so not only twice in 2 games, but in a b2b situation? To me, they'll be primed to be plucked by OKC in their following game if they pull off said feat.
Given the above stats & a general common sense look at things, logic dictates Detroit is not sweeping their next 3 games SU: I'd say it's quite possible they lose all 3, but I think it more likely they lose one by the 7+ pt margin that the stat trend above is calling for as "due"; they win one; & the 3rd result comes down to a bucket or two either way. Cue this next stat: Detroit is 1-33 ATS in SU losses this season. They lose SU...they lose ATS.
Scheduling wise, I like how this chase pans out. Their "weakest" opponent is first, their strongest last. While Atlanta plays b2b, so does Detroit. And while OKC plays b2b, their previous night's game was @Toronto, so that travel perspective is about as relevant as playing the Lakers & Clippers b2b. All 3 coming opponents are currently in decent form (Cha & Atl both 9-2 SU L11, Okc 7-2 SU L9), so in my book their previous efforts against Detroit this season can be referenced with confidence.
guaranteeed
Pretty much a regular
nbafan88
Pretty much a regular
Why are you guys still arguing about a topic that doesn't matter whatsoever? Players feel playoff experience as a team makes them more confident for future years. Those words come straight from the players mouths. If you don't agree so be it.
back to the Pistons.....
The addition of Tobias Harris has made this team much better IMO. I've never really liked Reggie running things though.... Can he lead a team in tough games away from... Idk
back to the Pistons.....
The addition of Tobias Harris has made this team much better IMO. I've never really liked Reggie running things though.... Can he lead a team in tough games away from... Idk
Right...
Imma havve to actually go to a few games next year while they 15 mins away from me before the eventual move into the new wings stadium.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
Farm, Detroit opened +7.5 for their game in OKC in November. I can't believe the spread would be anything more than +4-5 if they entered that coming rematch off 6 straight wins. If you can't bet the first game live (I'll be able to bet all 3 live), I'd only make it a small bet first up. If someone is inclined, even leave the first game alone altogether and hope for the much more amenable situation of a simple 2-game chase.
I pretty much expect a sequence to go like this: a 5th straight (but narrow) win vs. Charlotte, then failure vs. a Hawks team that's already beaten them on this homestand (& defies the expectation of a repeat close game like the first one was given the b2b situation for both teams, and wins between 10-15 pts), then vs. OKC (off a tough win in Toronto) plays out a close run thing.
BetCrimes1984
CTG Big Brother
A 6th straight win a bridge too far for this Pistons team. Atlanta double-up the due 7-pt margin.
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Lareux
Guest
Interesting, but not telling the full story. Again, half the league makes the playoffs so getting "playoff experience" isn't really that difficult. Also, as was pointed out in a few of the article posted on the topic, teams with little playoff experience are usually just young teams with little experience period. The older, more talented teams win an awful lot more than young, inexperienced teams...and that's experience itself, not playoff experience.
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Lareux
Guest
Still not sure what's wrong with a good debate. Of course players say that, all they do is talk in cliches. Do you believe every other cliche that comes out of their mouths as well?
:clappy:
The Farm
Sports Apothecary
:shake2:
Good job B.C.
Going to my first game of year tonight, it was due time and have to treat someone out for the evening so what a better game to go to than against Durantula/Russ and the Thunder. Might have to find a half unit fun wager. Think I have one in mind...shall see...
Going to my first game of year tonight, it was due time and have to treat someone out for the evening so what a better game to go to than against Durantula/Russ and the Thunder. Might have to find a half unit fun wager. Think I have one in mind...shall see...
nbafan88
Pretty much a regular
Do you have to over analyze every single thing anyone says? Yes I believe what the players say over what anyone else trying to put themselves in their shoes says.
There is no point to the discussion because no team/player is going to tank if they have the opportunity to make the playoffs in the last couple weeks.
ArizonaKid
Pretty much a regular
Warriors will gladly tell you that losing to the Spurs in 2013 was a major factor in winning the Title in 2015.
Tobias Harris was an outstanding pickup.
Hard to believe the Pistons that went to 6 straight ECFs have made the playoffs only once since.
How nice would Denzell Valentine fit with the first round pick ? Have to upgrade at SG over KCP if their to take the next step up the Eastern Conference ladder.
Tobias Harris was an outstanding pickup.
Hard to believe the Pistons that went to 6 straight ECFs have made the playoffs only once since.
How nice would Denzell Valentine fit with the first round pick ? Have to upgrade at SG over KCP if their to take the next step up the Eastern Conference ladder.
divol
The Spurs can suck my manhood
Getting back to experience discussion, I honestly feel that both in the playoffs and in such battles, experience worth a lot...
Deviding your condition to make the right runs at the right moments, to carry the team in the clutch and so on, this is something that only experience can give you...
That's why Dallas won against Detroit, at least partially. I think it's their first win all season long against a good big man...
Before Stons won in Dallas, I remember an article that shown Dallas record this season against teams with good Centers and it was ugly...
Deviding your condition to make the right runs at the right moments, to carry the team in the clutch and so on, this is something that only experience can give you...
That's why Dallas won against Detroit, at least partially. I think it's their first win all season long against a good big man...
Before Stons won in Dallas, I remember an article that shown Dallas record this season against teams with good Centers and it was ugly...
I wouldn't put it at 99% but 90% sounds fine.
divol
The Spurs can suck my manhood
Given the form of all three teams... I wouldn't give 10% for Pacers and Bulls to move past the Pistons.
Pacers play in MSG, against the Knicks without Calderon or Porzingis and I'm still not sure if they win...
Bulls lost three in a row at home to Knicks, Hawks and the Pistons...
Pacers play in MSG, against the Knicks without Calderon or Porzingis and I'm still not sure if they win...
Bulls lost three in a row at home to Knicks, Hawks and the Pistons...
orangemonk
Creep - Dee oh double gee
2016-17 NBA champs after what they learned from this sweep. No need for a chance at a top 3 pick.
Gorgolon Lives
The Reverend of CTG
I really like the makeup of this team. Lots of long athletic/versatile dudes. I think this series was a wake up call for Reggie Jackson, and will only make him better/wiser as a lead PG. Unfortunately, they are locked into extending Drummond to a max deal, and I don't think he really fits well with this team.
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tipyerbartender1
Guest
Pistons are on the right path. That was about the most competitive sweep I've ever watched. Not saying that to be an ass, all the games were spirited and competitive, save for a couple Cavs stretch runs in games 2 & 3 to put them to bed. Cavs weren't toying, the Pistons were exploiting weaknesses. As young as they are, I was impressed. They'll surpass the Cavs in short order as soon as Lebron declines, which is probably right around the corner, unless the Cavs have a sound plan for that day (doubtful).
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tipyerbartender1
Guest
Next Cavs series should be a walk in the park though. Another 4-0.
